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very interesting posts! Thanks guys.

Reading words during projection has been very tricky for me too. They become so slippery 

I don't believe I've had any telepathic communications yet. I am extremely inexperienced relative to most people that post here regularly.

I have many times questioned/doubted the Long and Detailed Dialogs that some persons report having had in those Astral places with Astral inhabitants and that they share in such detail, as remembering words (also reading words in texts in there) is Extremely Difficult and many times even Not possible (many times is Not Possible even in waking life on Earth to remember the content of a dialog/conversation with other persons and more the Details and that is even more Complicated/Difficult in an Altered States of Consciousness where the first thing experienced when coming back to be awake in waking life and that is a challenge to reverse it and counteract it is that the memories get deleted and is very difficult Not to allow the general and basic memories and experiences to be erased from the memory so then remembering complete and detailed Dialogs is Not easy credible

I don't think much of this is true at all. You're making a lot of assumptions. I don't have lucid projections very often at all [they happen spontaneously for me because I haven't been following any methods to induce them recently] but I don't often find recall to be very difficult if my level of lucidity during the projection has been of a high level. In fact, it's much easier than remembering normal dreams because usually there is no break in consciousness at all when the projection ends. What normally happens is that I sense the projection is coming to an end and I simply 'phase' back into awareness behind my physical eyes. I don't need to 'wake up' because I was already awake in the projection and phasing back into awareness of my physical body is a relatively smooth and seamless transition.

And as for "many times is Not Possible even in waking life on Earth to remember the content of a dialog/conversation with other persons."

Huh? You can't remember the content of conversations you have with people? That seems very unusual to me.

Lumaza, I'm finding it a bit difficult to follow precisely what you mean when you're talking about your eyes. What exactly does it mean to 'fight the urge to readjust'?

Do you mean that once you close your eyes, you must resist the urge to move them and stay focused on the darkness behind your eyes?

Sorry, I'm a bit lost! 

cool, thanks

Lumaza, when you're exploring the darkness behind your eyes during your phase and soak, do you have the lights in the bathroom turned off or down? Just wondered if more ambient light makes it more difficult.

I ask because my eyes don't really close fully (people say I look dead when I sleep) so I just bought an eye mask to experiment with.

Interesting work, Lumaza. You look like you've been busy! And thanks for your posts, they're always very helpful.

I would recommend the seth material over elias any day. Theres enough material for years of studying without bringing another channel in. Just my opinion.

I agree with you in some ways. Seth is so much more accessible than Elias, his words are felt deeply and are often very poetic. He creates resonances which have great effect on the reader and change them fundamentally.

Elias is, by contrast, somewhat cold and mechanical. His wording is so maddeningly precise it's initially painful to read. The benefit of this, however, is that he communicates with the minimum of distortion. While Seth can often paint in broad strokes ("You get what you concentrate upon"), Elias breaks down what this actually means (concentration is not thought; concentration is attention and is based in our beliefs). It's possible to study Seth for years and hold many misinterpretations - that is why Elias is so valuable to me.

I've keep coming across references to Seth but so far haven't really taken an in depth look at any of the material.

All the Seth books are great but The Nature of Personal Reality is the one I'd pick if I had to choose one to recommend.

If you're interested, the current of the Seth teachings have been continued and expanded by another channel. I know, I know... channelers are a dime a dozen and many of them are suspect for various reasons but ask anyone who has studied the Seth material for a long time where to find the best contemporary material and they will point you here:

http://www.eliasweb.org

Plus there's some handy digests here:

http://www.eliasforum.org/digests.html

All the material is free.

did a quick google and found instructions for VELO here:

http://uk.iacworld.org/how-to-achieve-vibrational-state-a-step-by-step-guide/

I tend to agree with Xanth. I looked into the IAC stuff but it contains a lot of cultish jargon and they seem to engage in fear-mongering about evil astral entities. I threw 'Demystifying the Out-Of-Body Experience' across the room after it stated as fact that people being addicted to cigarettes etc was caused by negative entities manipulating our consciousness.

I've watched Nanci Trivellato speak about this stuff too and she seems well-meaning but her viewpoint also seems too rigid and dogmatic. Her worldview is probably helpful for some people but something about the IAC approach just feels 'off' to me.

I think 'Demystifying the Out-Of-Body Experience' has information on how to do the VELO technique in it. If I get some free time later I might skim through it and post a synopsis if I have time.

There is also an ominous "don't do more than 4 consecutive cycles!" warning.

yeah, I would like to try this method but I'm wary of these warnings about doing too much of this breathing. Does anyone know what the supposed negative effects are meant to be? Some cursory googling reveals a bunch of stuff but who knows what to believe.

My goal is to be able to shift my consciousness at will. I spoke to Tom Campbell about this years ago and he said that goal is attainable and that the NP is only simple shift away. The problem is, we need to learn to get out of the way and allow that shift to take place. This comes from the result of practice, patience and perseverance.

I scanned through the pdf of Frank's posts recently and I believe at some points he mentioned being able to hold some level of NP awareness whilst also being awake in the physical. I think he mentions doing so in the presence of some other Astral Pulse forum members, if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure with strong belief and correct attention, all manner of wonderful things can be achieved with our consciousness.

I wanted to share my experience of visualizing because I think it might be similar to yours or if not at least you might be able to gain some insight from it.  Basically I can't visualize for beans.  Tell me to focus on a spinning top and "visualize" it and I'm going to fail if the expectation is I see it the same as if I was watching a spinning top on a table.  I was very discouraged for a long time and figured I just couldn't visualize.  Then I found "Astral Dynamics" by Robert Bruce.  Basically what this book said was very few actually see anything when they visualize and he relabeled it "tactile imaging".  To me it could just as easily be called sensing or imagining.  Basically for me it is the same as how I recall memories.  For example take a drink of water, wait 5 seconds, now remember taking that drink of water.  Do you actually "see" yourself taking that drink or do you "sense" it.  For me it is more like sensing and when I picture the top spinning it is the same way.  Now if I get relaxed enough and far enough into a session the sensing gets to a point where it becomes clearer and clearer and at some point I might actually see it in what is considered a more traditional "visualization" sense.  For others it is different though I know some can close their eyes and actually see things just the same as if it was in front of them, Not I though.

Thanks for writing this, makes me feel less like my brain is broken 

Thanks. I will think about what you wrote and practice focusing. I have had a number of amazing spontaneous projections over the years but it would be great to do it consciously from the waking state. I should probably relax and be less hard on myself. Thanks again for your advice!

Lumaza I just started reading Astral Pulse and I want to thank you for your posts which are excellent, inspirational and make me think about a lot of new things.

The problem I have right now is whenever I close my eyes and visualize I get frustrated that whatever I visualize seems dim and far in the background. Like the blackness behind my eyes is masking the visual that I can sense is there. Do you have any tips for increasing powers of visualization? When I read other people's posts it seems like they can get more impressive visuals quite easily and I think this is holding me back from phasing from the waking state.

Thanks.

the thing with the early Seth stuff is that he uses terms like reincarnation just to introduce the idea of multiple focuses, because the material was so new at the time. Each of us is part of an essence (think wider consciousness gestalt or 'soul' if you want') that has multiple (think thousands) of focuses on earth (and elsewhere). To the essence, they experience all these focuses at once and so there is no linear reincarnation to all intents and purposes, simply a diversity of experience. The purpose is to experience consciousness in a diversity of ways. All consciousness seeks to expand.

As far as I can recall Karma isn't a part of the way Seth explains reality and he certainly doesn't espouse any of that stuff about people having to pay for things done in other lives. That's not to say that events in other focuses (or incarnations if you want) don't effect this life, as we often choose to incarnate in multiple focuses surrounded by essences we have shared experiences with before and people can often sense these deep connections and sometimes even remember events from other incarnations. If you lead a really messed up life it will simply be a much more laborious process to transition once you die, as it will be more difficult to work past the kind of belief systems you will have been operating with when you were alive.

If I happen to see any specific quotes about it I'll post them but that's the gist.

[Seth, Dreams and Projections of Consciousness]

some quotes from Seth, Dreams and Projections of Consciousness (New Awareness Network 1998 [originally published in 1986])

p 316-318

For all practical purposes, of course, you will usually find yourself in some sort of body form in your out-of-body experiences. These are a necessary camouflage, for you cannot yet think of identity without some kind of body, so ypu project in such a form. It varies according to your abilities, and without it, you would feel lost indeed. The form itself is not important but it can tell you something about the dimension in which you are having the experience.

The dream body is the one with which you are most familiar. It has been called the astral body. It strikes you as being physical when you are in it, but you can do things with it that can't be done ordinarily. You can levitate, for example. As a rule, however, you do not go through walls with this body. This is the body you use for ordinary dreams. Levitation is possible with it but on a limited basis.

When you enter a different dimension, the abilities of the body form change, and for all intents and purposes, it is a different body form - which we will call a mind form. It still seems physical in shape, but you can walk through physical matter with it. You can levitate much more freely, traveling within the solar system. But you cannot go further with it.

In the first form, it is possible to perceive the past, present or future on a limited basis. In the second form, this perception is increased, the scope of consciousness widened. This is the form you will use if you meet by appointment with others in the dream state.

The third we may call the true projection form. In it, it is possible to travel beyond your solar system and to perceive the past, present and futures of other systems as well as your own. The various forms that you use do not dictate your experience, however. You may begin in one form and change to another - or go from the first to the third. On such occasions you must pass through in reverse direction [on returning]. The forms merely represent stages of consciousness.

At physical death, after the last reincarnation, then the normal form is the dream body, and excursions are made from this point. It is possible, as mentioned, to suddenly switch from the third form to the dream body, but with a considerable jolt to consciousness.

There are, indeed, others that can help you in such experiences, and they can be of great assistance as guides. You will find projections much easier if your head is to the north.

p 320

I want to give you some idea of the conditions you may expect to meet in any successful projections, so that you will be prepared to some extent. For simplicity's sake, we will call the body forms discussed in our last session forms one, two and three.

Form one will spring out of an ordinary dream state. In spontaneous projections, you may become conscious in form one, project, return to the ordinary dream state and from there project again several times. You can expect these particular projections to be difficult to interpret now, though you may find the experience intact in the middle of any given dream record.

Your excursions with form one will be within your own system, largely connected to the earth, although past, present and future may be involved. You may, for example, visit New York in the year 2000.

The projections here are fairly short in duration, though exceptionally clear. You may encounter phantoms from your own subconscious, however, and they will seem exceedingly real. If you realize that you are projecting, you may simply order any unpleasant phantoms to disappear, and they will do so. You may banish a nightmare also, if you realize it is a product of your own subconscious. If you treat it as a reality, however, then you must deal with it as such until you realize its origin or return to the ordinary dream state.

In form two you will not, as a rule, encounter any subconscious phantoms. Ordinary dream elements will not be as frequent, nor will they intrude as much. A longer duration of projection is possible. The vividness is extraordinary. Here you will begin to perceive constructions quite clearly that are not your own, where earlier these are but dimly glimpsed. A certain period of orientation will be necessary, simply because these other constructions may seem bewildering. Some will exist in your future. Some may have existed in your past, and some were thought of but never materialized.

But the reality of all these constructions will be equally vivid, you see, for they are, indeed, equally real. I will give you a simple example. You may find yourself in a room with certain people. Later, upon waking, you realize that both the people and the setting belong to a particular sequence in a novel. You think then: "this was no projection, then, but only a dream."

It may, however, be a valid projection. The room and people exist, but not in a way that you endorse as reality. They exist in another dimension, but as a rule, you cannot perceive it. [To Rob:] The paintings that you will paint exist now. It is possible to project yourself into one of your own future landscapes. This would not be an imaginative projection. This is what I am trying to tell you.

You may find yourself, for example, in the middle of a battle that was once planned in some general's mind, a battle that never materializd in physical reality. In such a case, incidentally, you were not part of the battle and could not be harmed. However, you might be attracted enough to project yoursef spontaneously into the body of one of the soldiers, in which case you would experience pain until your own fear pulled you back. As you learn control, such mistakes vanish.

will type more when time allows.

I agree that Seth is an amazing teacher and those books are the ones that opened me up to the wider reality. I think the Elias material (http://www.eliasweb.org/Default.aspx) is the the best, most helpful and most distortion free material that carries on The Seth teachings, although by its very nature it reads as a little cold and clinical to some people.

I too find it very interesting when Seth talks about projection techniques. I believe he has many more passages on this subject. If I find them I will add them to this thread.