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For years now I have been attemtping an OBE because because curiosity has gone wild about the subject.  I was once athiest and after reading about AP I soon became more interested in NDE.  That opened my mind to the possibility that there may in fact be a God.  Then I began reading anything I could get my hands on about God, including scriptures of many different religions.  To date, I think that Christ is the answer... and have recently come across some of his teachings that make me wonder about OBE.  One statement that most got to me said by Christ was "righteous is he who seeith and believes, but blessed is he who believes and seeith not."  Now this leads me to believe that it's possible to have an OBE experience or the likes thereof and know the truth because you have experienced it.  But to truly show your spirituality you must have faith without seeing (OBE?).  So my curious question is this... even though we can have OBE and tap into the truth of the soul, is it more important to have faith and believe without seeing?  Christ also teaches that we must learn patience, and though I have heard that it takes a great deal of patience to induce an OBE... wouldn't it take the most patience to go throughout an entire life without an OBE and wait untill death before the answers are experienced?  I do however recongnize that those who have had a NDE "experienced" the truth and have more faith then they had ever known before because of the knowledge they brought back with them, some including talking with the "being of light"(christ?), so that in itself suggests that it would be good to have an OBE.  I am just curious if I'm the only one thinking this.  If this makes sense to anyone, I would like to know you're ideas on it.

Yesterday morning I did my usual techniques to induce relaxation.  I had just woken up, went and got a drink, then went and lied down again and began my breathing awareness.  My body became fully relaxed and my mind was aware, and then about an hour into it I got an enourmous surge throughout my body, beginning from the left and moving to the right.  A few minutes later, I got another in the same manner.  I didn't know where to go from there though.  I had reached mind awake body asleep, but don't know how to induce the vibrations from this point.  Today I attempted the same thing, and achieved the swaying sensation that so many talk about, which was the first time even though I have been practising for years.  I found that they were stronger when I didn't concentrate on them, which of course became more difficult as they increased.  However, I feel that this is an imporant step and that the swaying is close to something, but still don't quite know what to do from here.  Suggestions would be appreciated!

I have known about astral projection for years now.  I am 21 and read my first book by Monroe when I was 16.  Since that time I have experimented with many different techniques at many different times, and quite often got advice from Robert Bruce himself.  And now, years later... nothing.  No strange sensations, no vibrations.  I've had a couple lucid dreams in the past years, but that's all.  So after all my studying and all my practice with no results, I've come to wonder if it's true that astral projection is for everyone.  Or further more, if it's even real or just an elaborate state of the imagination.  I've read MANY forums about individuals who claim "after a month of trying I finally got out" and wonder how valid they are.  Note, I can attempt to project for hours, and still, nothing happens, so it's not that I'm not applying myself.  Can anyone help... and does anything think I should give up?

In attempting to have an OBE I have become quite successful in the energy work.  Often when I do energy work before bed I recall my dreams more vividly and sometimes even lucid dream.  What I'm curious about is how important energy work is in inducing an OBE.  Has anyone found more success with OBE when they perform energy work first?

"WORK OUT YOUR OWN PATH TO ENLIGHTENMENT WITH DILIGENCE!"

I HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTING AN OBE FOR QUITE SOME TIME AND I CAN DO VERY WELL AT ENERGY WORK AND CONCENTRATION.  THE THING IS, WHEN I CONCENTRATE TOO LONG I GET REALLY BORED AND DON'T FEEL LIKE WAITING ANY LONGER FOR ANYTHING TO HAPPEN.  IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN DO TO KEEP FROM GETTING SO BORED WHILE STILL HOLDING CONCENTRATION, FOR INSTANCE CONCENTRATING ON SOMETHING SIMPLE BUT INTERESTING?

I don't think that the matrix is real.  I know what you mean when you say that people walk around in a dream world, I think that is true.  When we die it will be an awakening of sorts, and we will see the truth for what it really is.  I don't however think we are under the control of machines that we created that ended up turning on us.  The movies are awsome though, and I just saw "Revolutions".  Thought it was the best one yet!

I have a hard time with the God and Satan analogy of this guide.  I've noticed a lot on this forum that people that can AP believe much differently about chrisianity.  Not everyone, that would be overgeneralizing... but many.  They tend to think that all the teachings are symbolic and that they're intended understanding has been lost.  Astral Projection is simply another form of conciousness, but the gospels are true regardless any spiritual abilities you may have.  You are simply not looking hard enough or allowing yourself to be open to the concept.  The existence of God and Christ and all their creations is truly a natural and simple concept to grasp, it is upside-down thinking that construes their teachings.  Christ talks of the "plainness" of his words and he does so in order for us to understand them.  He does not speak in code or in a way that only the faithful can understand.  He teaches in plain words so that everyone can comprehend their truthfullness.  Yes, I'm certain things have been changed over the years, but other things have surfaced to reinforce the gospel teachings.  The Bible is not the single source of Christs words, just the only one that most consider to be a possible answer.  You must not be confused with perception.  Adam and Eve, the life and death of Christ... these teachings are meant to be taken literally, as in, they truly occured.  In regards to Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden... when they ate the fruit it says that Adam "fell into a deep sleep".  But nowhere in the bible does it ever talk of Adam waking up again.  The mortal life that we live now is the "dream state", and it's all meant to be taken very literally.  It's not symbolic.  God is not perception... only fact.  There is no other truth!  It's interesting to me how God so plainly teaches us in many different texts... and yet so many easily choose to reject Gods teachings in place of a different opinion written by just some guy/girl.

I've tried a few... and nothing happened whatsoever.  They were nice to listen to, but it ended there.  I have a friend who listened to the same ones I have and he said that some "strange things" occured, but I can only speak from personal experience.  In on tape, as I reached the end (I think it was suppose to be hypnotic) I was suppose to go on this great personal and insightful journey.  Instead, I just layed awake and listened to the minute or so long static that took place as I was "suppose" to be on this journey.  Needless to say, I was greatly disappointed.  I guess maybe it works for some, but it doesn't work for everyone.  If you decide to try hemi-sync, don't be suprised it it's nothing more then an audio cassette that puts you to sleep!

Free will is the answer to that little question.  You can see the future of the world... any possible future.  It's not, however, set in stone.  You can view what will happen if you continue on the course you are on, or what will happen if you change that course.  The past can be viewed, and everyone POSSIBLE future can also be viewed.

So, what does that girl have to do with this question?

Didn't look at it like that before, it makes a lot of sense.  Scripture interpretation can be difficult so it's always good to have outside perspective.

Ah but there are many truths that prove the existence of God, it's only our perception that is off.  There is but one truth, and though we cannot prove what that is, it doesn't stop it from being true, only from us KNOWING it's true.  If your friend were to travel across the world and bring with him a book about you.  It details your history, your kind acts, your evil doings.  It details you growing up, all the times you helped and hurt people... just everything about you.  Now that person whom your friend has told these things to understands what they mean, but simply has never seen your face and therefor has no reason to believe that you ever existed.  Your friend could simply have made it all up.  But the fact that this person doesn't believe you exist... doesn't change the fact that you do exist.  You see for most to believe they must see... that's the human condition.  We live in a physical dimension and everything we percieve is through a mere 5 senses.  But God is beyond anything physical.  He created both physical and spiritual and comprehends them both, where we only comprehend one.  So you see, He doesn't need to show you that he exists by coming to say hi in the middle of the night.  He touches that which is spiritual, such as the soul.  He lets you know that he is real not by means of the eyes... but through the heart and the mind.  Everything is perception, and if you stop to truly consider why God might exist, you will come to discover why God does exist.

Personally I have tried both.  I usually tend to attempt it just before I go to sleep.  That way I have nothing to look forward to or to do, so I can put my full attention on AP.  However, often after about an hour I get very bored and that is a difficult stage for me to get past.  I have been most successful when I wake up in the morning.  This also allows for a few steps to be skipped.  For instance, when you wake up your body is already completely relaxed, and you don't have to go through the relaxation techniques.  Secondly, your body is already quite accustomed to the sleep state, so when you attempt an AP it falls into trance much faster, and you don't have to waste all that time inducing it.  In my experiences by far the hardest thing to do, morning or night, is simply stay awake.  It's not difficult to notice when you are in the beginning stages of sleep and trance, the difficulty comes in going beyond that and remaining aware as your body drifts shuts down for sleep.  Hope that helps.

Don't really know what to say in all that.  You believe in Satan, so you must believe in God.  You believe Satan will eventually be the ruler supreme because... God is going to die?  That's what I'm getting out of it.  So it doesn't seem that you are an athiest but rather a satanist.  In which case, no wonder you find answers to why God doesn't exist... consider the source of your influence.

So basically a few of you are telling me that you spent $360.00 on a time travel device?  You've physically gone back in time and done, well, whatever you please and it hasn't affected anything?  That the entire destiny of the time we live in now and the entire future of the world lies solely in your hands, for 18 easy payments of 19.95?  You might call it ignorance, but I'm simply aware of the fact that I'm not naive enough to give into such hype.  "The future is not in my hands" you might say.  Consider the possibilities of time travel.  You could entirley stop WW2 from ever happening by just bringing a sophisticated weapon back in time and killing Hitler.  You could teach the 15th century all of our advanced scientific and medical solutions to everyday problems and make the 20th century FAR more advanced then we ever dreamed.  "I wouldn't do that" you might also say.  Well, for only $360.00 and such easy access to a time machine, obviously SOMEONE would commit such acts.  So why haven't they happened yet?  Why hasn't the world heard of this?  And if it's so ignorant for me to believe it doesn't exist, why is it so difficult for me to order... for the low, low price of $360.00?  Excuse my synicism, but I just went into this forum because there were so many readers, and only responded after reading the ridiculous topic.  Excuse my bluntness, but for anyone to believe in such a simple "order the time machine now" solution when science hasn't even brought up the subject is ignorance on your part, not mine.  Curiosity and skeptisism are always healthy, but one must always grasp a certain level of common sense... that's what it's there for.

Bunch of crap.  Physical time travel is an impossibility. If you think about it there is no aspect of time travel that is even comprehensible to our human mind. And if a time travel device existed, I asure it would be very world renound.  "$360 to time travel, but the coil heats up on the "delorian" so do be careful.  But if you keep cleaning the crystals all will be fine and you can morph the future into whatever you like it to be... have fun!" Absolutely ridiculous to even give in to such hype!

Can't really say, I don't think anyone who is typing these answers have ever died before... but I could be wrong.

Alright, I appologize.  It was late and I was a little drunk when I wrote that, and obviously unitentionally offended some people.  You did help me with your response to my question, so sorry, I guess I should be more appreciative.  Thanks for your responses, didn't mean to cause drama.

Listen, this forum is important to me. I have reached a pivital time in my life and I seek true spirituality. I did not make this forum so that some of you could "catch up on old times", or talk about your almost "marital" status. If you want to talk about personal things, then e-mail eachother personally. I seek only help as to possible steps and/or solutions to attaining the next "stage" in an OBE. If you cannot/or do not desire to contribute, then please do not reply. I truly appreciate all the responses I have attained so far (they have honestly helped me), but if you have nothing productive to add to this particular forum, then it's simple.... please do not reply. Sorry for being such a willy, but I feel at this point that it's rather necissary. So, if you have advice I am grateful to hear it. If you want to chat with your friend about your week... please... this is not the place. Thank you!!!

Please use this forum to answer questions and not catch up on old times.  Stick to the topic.  Thank you!

By the way, I just got a letter from Rober Bruce who informed me that the jolting sensation is most likely the astral body returning after a projection.  All it takes is a slight slip in conciousness, like drifting to sleep for a moment, and the astral is free.  Then when you realize you are asleep and bring yourself back, the astral returns with not memory of it occuring.

I think quite often people misinterpret the true meaning of scriptures.  Christ speaks often of "the plainness of His words" and that he teaches so that all can understand.  In the dark ages mankind corrupted much of the bible.  During that time only the priests were allowed to read and preach about the bible.  Women were thought of as inferior, and therefor many passages that showed the power and influence of women were taken out of the bible and the priests (believing they were superior because of manhood) never taught the masses about the scriptures concerning most of the women.  My point is, mankind has influenced much of Gods teachings in order to become more influential and eventually powerful in the eyes and hearts of men.  God however has always taught in plainnes so that we can understand, and therefor I believe that for the most part the scriptures are meant to be taken literal, not figuratively.  For instance, mankind has probabably found a more "suitable" explanation concerning the reeds, such as interpreting them as scrolls.  But it's difficult to envision why the most powerful of Pharaoh's army was consumed and killed by, well, scrolls of paper.  It doesn't seem a logical translation unless the translator was trying to "logically" explain the acts of God because he/she simply couldn't grasp the consept of a Divine Creator parting the seas to save his righteous followers.  HM?

I think the reasons and desires are simple.  Our soul manifests who we really are, our true self.  I think that the reason so mahy desire to have an OBE so badly is because in doing so we get to "return home" (if you will) to a glimpse of the being and life that we knew before we came to earth.  Earth life is so struggling and difficult, and I believe our soul deeply misses the life we had before despite the necessity of our life here... and wants to return.

I just have to say that this is EXACTLY the stage that I am at as well.  You are lucky because, disappointedly, very few have answered my forum concerning this exact question, so I am grateful that you have posted this question.  When I finally reach the mind awake/body asleep stage (usually just after or just before one hour) my body feels like it sways from side to side.  Often it will go away and come back a few times, but it is most powerful when I don't recognize or think about it.  A common suggestion that I have recieved is that once this stage occurs, no longer concentrate on anything other then staying concious.  If you ignore the sensation and focus on one thing only, such as breathing, and let your subconcious do what comes natural (ie- fall asleep) then the vibrations will come.  Right now I haven't yet felt the vibrations but I have been trying for quite a few years, and the swaying motion is as close as I have come, so I feel this is a huge step in achieving an OBE.  I have found without a doubt (though much more difficult) that it is SO much easier to reach this stage in the morning just after you awake.  When you wake up, read a chapter in a book, or go get a drink, go to the bathroom, etc.  Something that you can do while still in a "dreamlike state" that takes little time so that when you practice your body will still be relaxed from all those hours of sleep, but your mind will be awake from what you just did.  I hope that makes sense.  Anyways, you are definately not alone at this stage.  I am exactly where you are and am struggling with where to go from there... but I'm sure if we keep practicing we will find the answer and reach the next step.  Good luck!