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THe way you described the passage from LD to OBE is by actually starting to wake up. You can do exactly the same with everyy single normal dream every morning. As you notice that you are waking up, just stay in bed and don't move an inch and reach for that feeling of "sleep" and "dream" in which you were just before. Then start to reach for the sensation of free fall and the vibrations will come. I myself did that twice, but haven't much time in the morning to do that. The other problem is that of being unconfortable and having a need to move in bed or to go to the bathroom... Otherwise it should work. From normal sleep into OBE....

What I am going to write might not help much, since I have had the same problem. However, there are a few instances when I become lucid in a dream:

-1) when I look into a mirror; then usually I do not even see my reflection and I realised it is all just a dream.

-2) when I look at my hands; and for example I see that I have long finger nails, and I know I just cut them. Then I realise that something is wrong.

-3) when I look at the night sky and see the stars; then I remember that I want to ask the sky about the future (a long story) and I become lucid.  

However, these things do not happen automatically. I am lucid only once every few months! But at the moment I am working on remembering my dreams every single night. I think that is a start. The next step will be to work on lucidity, both with reality checks and autosuggesting myself before going to sleep. It takes about 2 weeks for these things to start working, since it took me about 2 weeks to get to remember my dreams with auto suggestion.

Hi folks,

There is a good link to an online dream journal site where you can create for free your own dream journal. There are also discussions, interpretations, keywords, etc... It is very convenient to record your dreams online, to keep track of your dream and even to find what are your common symbols, keywords... in your dreams.

The address is :

http://www.dreamjournal.net/dj/index.cfm

A dream journal is a good start to help remember you dreams, and eventually get to have more lucid dreaming and who knows even AP, OBE.

Ciao,
Shaman the dreamer

Last night in a dream I was in an open field, there was a little slope. There were people dragging corpses and dumping them there. I also saw body parts scattered there. It was pretty spooky and I decided to leave the place. that' s when I realised in the dream that I was in Jerusalem.

I see this dream as a vision of a terrorist attack in Jerusalem (Israel) within a day or two. There haven't been any major terrorist attack there for a while, due to increased level of alertness. So if something happens within a few days it will not be a coinscidence.

Last night I had a very vivid dream just at the beginning of the night. Usually I remember my dreams only of the morning hours, but this one was so vivid and intense that I woke up just after it and it was just a little more than an hour after I went to sleep. So here it is:

I was in place with light brown buildings houses, not very tall, and it was night. It almost looked like these mud buildings, but I cannot way where it was. Then throught the night sky, beyond the building and behind the tress I could see a rising cloud of fire. The could was black of smoke but was glowing of an orange fire inside, like a nuclear bomb or like a volcanic eruption. I felt one or two deflagration (shock waves) and I realised that we were in the reach of this gigantic explosion/eruption. We started running and I started climbing a building then I turned around to see the fire was coming down and pouring in the street and at that stage it was more like lava flowing in the street, yellowish lava-like fire.

Shaman The Dreamer [|)]

S=Shaman
M=Mustardseed

M: Shaman, it is me Mustardseed, speaking to you in a dream. I have a revelation for you.
S: OK, I'm listening/dreaming. Go on.
M: I'm a joker, check me at

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7658

I wrote there a joke titled "Prophetic dream about Robert Bruce!!!".

S: why are you telling me?
M: 'cause everyone has to know... after a few answers I revealed the joke. I cannot let them believe that I'm really channeling God, it is just too much for me....
S: Can you tell more:

M: OK, here it is: YOU HAVE TO READ TILL THE BOTTOM LINE WHERE I CONFESSED THAT IT WAS A JOKE AND I WAS BEING SILLY...
begins here:
Mustardseed
Gold Member

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Posted - 23 September 2003 :  05:09:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had a vision during an OBE this morning. I hope you dont mind me putting this on a thread Robert. I have been quite involved in the Forum the last couple of weeks so maybe it is just me. However in this vision or dream I was in the astral plane and met everyone on the forum Wiggin Adrian Kakkarot Robert Xvirus and Beth, dozens of people even No Leaf Clover was there and everyone had a very large clock hanging around their neck . The hands were moving around at different speeds depending on the person, some hardly moving some fast some slow. The only one that had no clock was Robert Bruce. I was concerned and there were some astral beings walking around and I asked them what it all meant. Why the clocks and the hands moving. They told me that the clocks were representative of our sexual orientation and I asked about the hands moving at different speeds they said it was an indication of how much everyone thought about sex, the faster they moved the more the individual thinks about sex. I was very intriqued and asked how come Robert has no clock?? They said oh no its not that he has no clock its just that the fan broke in the kitchen and we are using his clock till it gets fixed.
Edited by - Mustardseed on 23 September 2003 05:32:11

EnderWiggin
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Posted - 23 September 2003 :  05:58:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hmm, I'm not quite sure how to take this. In one aspect it's actually kind of funny. It seems to imply that his clock moved the fastest so the motor was good to use for the fan. I wonder what the kitchen symbolized. And the fan.
-If you're going through Hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill
-The soul of any plant or creature is not something to disregard or disrespect.
-You cannot hurt that which is formless. Emptiness cannot be contained, and the softest thing cannot be snapped. -Bruce Lee
-We are a team. When one of us stops working [to make the world better], the rest of us suffer.
-We only get what we give.
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EnderWiggin
Premier Member

Status: offline

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Posted - 23 September 2003 :  05:59:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hehehe... I bet my clock was moving pretty fast...
-If you're going through Hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill
-The soul of any plant or creature is not something to disregard or disrespect.
-You cannot hurt that which is formless. Emptiness cannot be contained, and the softest thing cannot be snapped. -Bruce Lee
-We are a team. When one of us stops working [to make the world better], the rest of us suffer.
-We only get what we give.
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Mustardseed
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Status: offline

749 Posts
Posted - 23 September 2003 :  06:17:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
IT WAS A JOKE GUYS, JUST BEING SILLY

Hi Folks!

I just found a very good link to a site where you can find what you always wanted to ask about dreams ... It has symbolism, interpretation, how to remember your dreams, how to lucid dream, and many other topics... Including premonitions and precognitive dreams. It has a forum where you can post your dreams and get comments, and so on and so much... It is the site of Charles, who has written many book on sleep and dreams. He himself has worked in clinics with patients, though he does not have a PhD (only a Master I think), his site is called 'dreamdoctor'. Anyhow, I think it is a good place to find answers to the many questions I have seen posted here. Check it out:

http://www.dreamdoctor.com/common/

Shaman - The Dreamer .... [|)]

Has anyone read (or heard of) the book of Daniel Goleman (PhD in Psychology) "The Meditative MIND" ?

If yes, I would like to discuss some of the topics found there.

If not, I might summarize some of the interesting things I found there.

For those of you who have OBEs, has anyone met an Angel during his/her astral experience ? Can you comment? And if yes, do you know the name of the Angel ? (I do not expect one with white wings, etc... angels can have human appearance...).  

And related to that, has anyone met an angel in his/her (lucid or not) dreams?

Thanks!

Hello all,

The book of Radiance, the Zohar has been written more than 700 years ago in Aramean by a spanish scholar (around 1280). It is the fundation of the jewish mysticism Kaballah.

I have noticed that though there are many posting on Kaballah, I haven't found a posting with specific details related directly to AP and OBE. There are many posting with references and links to other sources, but it seems to me that there are no postings on direct issues (correct me if I am wrong; if there are such postings they should be sticky I think).

So I will address (in a following posting here, not today, but sometimes this week) at least 3 issues:

-1) AP/OBE during sleep time as viewed and mentioned in (parts of) the Zohar.

-2) Negs and other negative entities as viewed and mentioned in the Zohar.

-3) Dreams, Visions and Prophecies as viewed and mentioned in the Zohar.

-4) I will later extend (3) to occurences of dreams/prophecies in the Bible (the Old Testement).

If these have been addressed on this forum, then let me know.

For those who might not know, The book of Radiance (Zohar) is basically the foundation of Kaballah, the mystical branch of Judaism.

I have decided to do that, as it seems to me that it is missing on this forum, though it is direct evidence that AP/OBE and the related topics are addressed in the Bible and Zohar, and that maybe we can learn from the Zohar and Bible more about the astral world and the "other world". It is at this level that many religions meet.

I will try to address the issues directly, trying not enter the details not related to AP/OBE, Astral, negs, dreams, visions, prophecies. I'll post that probably on Thursday.

I had so many dreams last night, the winter solstice dreams I guess... In one of them we were getting out of a building that was collapsing. I was outside and saw the top (pretty high) starting to collapse. I was yelling to the poeple behind me inside to get out of there. That building was made of bricks and wood, no steel nor concrete. Then as I turned my back to that building a voice said "now you are seeing the future" and the ground suddenly got covered with asphalt showing a wide street. There was a white building (slightly greyish) that look much more modern, like those buildings in DC (maybe a 5 stories building). Then that building too started to break in two from the middle and collapsed. And everywhere I looked I saw the ground (street) was littered with debris. I went around and saw more debris, it looked like an earthquake had struck that place. There were people stepping over the debris and even some car driving around. When I woke up it might have been around 2-3am. THen I went back to sleep with many other dreams, but none was that bad. The last part of that dream was happening in the dark I think. The beginning was more like day light, not sure.

The place reminds more of Washington DC. Somehow in the dream that street was 'diagonal' like some of the main streets in DC. It looks more like the buildings around the mall. And the devastation looked more like some detonation.

Zaphnat-Panea is Shaman The Dreamer,

So I'm out of here too... for the same reason as Zaphnat-Panea...

Hello All!

I know it is the right time to ask. Earlier this week there was a sollar eruption sending charged particles to the earth. This solar eruption was supposed to reach us yesterday and last night, causing perturbations in radios, satelites, etc.... Has anyone felt something different (physically or spiritually) lately because of that? I don't think it should affect us, but some people believe in magnetism, and magnetism should certainly be affected....

I know that many people here are pretty young and that many Near Death Experiences (NDE) happen to older people, but I wanted to check with you if anyone on this forum had an NDE, and if that person is also able to OBE. I know there are forums on NDE ( http://www.iands.org/ ) with a lot of info, but I was looking into the issue of people with previous NDE who actually OBE/AP.

MODERATOR

Not enough that Shenron was telling us that lucid dreaming is for psychos, now he is posting his "commercials" in each different forums and even in topics that have nothing to do with his "immortality"....

May I suggest that his postings be removed if they have nothing to do with the subject. If he wants to post one message about his services/tools that he is selling, fine, but he does not need to polluate the forums completely for that! He can sell his things somewhere else, or just make 1 posting.

thanks for your attention.

As it has been mentioned in several posting and even in the online book of Robert, desorientation can happen in the astral, due to our mind that is trying to adapt a 360 degree vision back to our 2 eyes (180 degrees) vision. That and others leads us to think that our mind is deceiving us. Here I bring a graphic example of such a deceiving optical illusion. It looks from the picture as if some are spinning, but not the one you look at. NONE IS SPINNING, it is from our mind.... deceiving us.

Hi Folk,

I have read postings about people who, while OBEing, encountered dark entities, looking like dark clouds of dust, etc...From what it seems (and I hope someone can either approve or refute that) these dakr entities are encountered by people who OBE with the aids of drugs, either smoking or swallowing, or even people drunk, or with the wrong medications... And these postings where not only from the astralpusle forum but also from a forum on NDE.

So my question/suggestion is that these dark astral entities that seem to want to enter the body of someone OBEing are seen ONLY by those who use narcotics, drugs, medications, weeds, etc...

Let me know if someone met any kind of dark creature while doing a normal OBE...

If the suggestion I wrote is true, it might either means that these drugs can induce hallucinations on top of the OBE, or that the dark creatures (entitites) are able to sens someone whose body is affected by narcotics, drugs, alocohol, medications,... and they can sens that the body is maybe "weaker" and for that reason they would try to "enter" it.

Shaman The Dreamer

Hi Folk,

I had made a posting on the symbolism in dreams and the possiblity that it might be the same in the astral, but did not get much feed back from you. So I decided to face the subject directly with a very "provoking" title that OBEs are just mind-awake dreams. Now, before you answer me let me explain and elaborate, in that sens that what I am saying is that DREAMS are OBEs will be the final answer. HEre it is:

When you do have an OBE, and it is close to the physical plane, it often happens that you find a door in your room that was not there (where it is not supposed to be there) and that once you open it you fall onto something that is even weider than the door itself, you find a cave, a pyramid, or whatever other things that don't exist in the physical world. Where did it come from? From you mind, or from the unconscioud part of your mind (which might be much more than what you think, for example as the "collective" consciousness). Anyway, the point I want to refere to here is that if in the real time zone (the physical plane) you actually have things that do not exist and that are the result of the mind, THEN WHY when you are not in the real time zone and when you meet with "higher" entities, these entities cannot be themselves the result of your mind (or collective mind). You see I have difficulties accepting the fact that when you see in the physical plane (in the astral) things that do not exist you say OK it comes from the mind, I know it should not be there; however when you switch completely away from the physical, you think that all waht you experience is complete reality.

What I am suggesting is that, exactly like in dreams, one need to interprete OBE using the same symbolism that used to interprete and decode dreams. So that if you encounter entities who tell you that reptiles are about to take over the world, it might means something else than just "reptile". For example reptiles might represent the side of human that is not very spiritual, rather basic instinct and then interprete the OBE as the fact that thw world is actually dominated not by the mind of people but by their instinct (just an example). One really needs to check all the possible symbolisms before really giving an interpretation.

Now back to dreams, how do you think the same symbolism in dreams works for John and for Suzy, or for Mr. A and Ms. B? It seems (Young) that we do have a collective consciousness (more precisely this one is unconscious) and that we tap into it at night during dreaming. Now all agree that most of the dreams come in symbolism and that one need to interprete them. So if Dreams and OBE are actual "visits" of our consciousness into the realm of the "collective consciousness" then we certainly need also to interprete OBE with the same symbolism. IN that sens, not only I see OBE as dreams, but I see dreams as OBE. The only difference is the state of awakeness of the mind.

I believe that OBE can be the key to understanding dreams in that sens that in OBE we have our will and are aware of what to do or to ask, while dreams are more passive. But I believe that it is the same world, influence by our mind and that need interpretation.

Let me give you a few concrete example about how dreams tap into the collective consciousness:

The scientist who found the way "benzene" (6 atoms of carbon) works did that in his dream, where he saw 6 snakes arangin themselves in weird manners  untill they form the famous sexagonal figure with one carbon atom at each 'corner'.
Wasn't there a president of the US who had a premonitory vision of his own death druing his dream?
Dreaming of a piece of raw meat is known to mean death. The person who is offered the piece of raw meat is the preson who will die/transit.
In general premonitoty dreams are the best example that the dream world is an exploration into other planes of reality, like OBE, but event then INTERPRETATION is needed.

So, I'm coming back, at last, to the original posting:

Don't you think that one should interprete the OBE in the same manner as dreams?

Shaman The Dreamer

Some OBEs are in the plane near the physical world but most of them are not, they look extremely similar in context, appearance and stories to dreams, and more precisely to Lucid Dreams but with a higher state of consciousness. My question, or more precisely my suggestion is therefore that the same symbolism that appears in dreams might be at work during these OBE that are far from the physical plane, in that sens that these OBE should be INTERPRETED like dreams in order to be understood, and they should not be taken directly as they are. For example if during the OBE a big animal is attacking you, you might want to check what would it mean first if such a thing would happen in a dream. For that specific example that kind of dreams with animals attacking, more like nightmare actually, represent some physical difficulty of the person, in that sens that these kind of nightmares are induced by indigestion or other physical conditions. And then the animal represent our "physical" that is trying to tell us that it does not feel well. Deep water in dreams represent our deep inconscious and I would suggest if this happen in OBE it should be interpreted as such too, and so on with all the symbolism that are attributed to dreams. There are more "complex" situations where one needs to interpret for her/himself, since many dreams are very personal; in that same manner I would say that many interpretation of OBE might have to be at a personal level, where everyone would have to look into the OBE for him/herself and try to think what each thing means personally. THere was even something mentioned in the online book of Robert Bruce, but it was more on the side of the premonitions. It was the wind of the future, where suddently during AP, Robert felt like taken away to a place where there was a fridge, a road I think and a wall in front of him... later on he understood that it was a premonition of something important hapening in his life at that moment where (if I remember correctly) he had an old fridge standing outside his house for quite a while, and when he decided to throw it away it was at a time when a big change/decision was hapening in his life (Robert you might want to correct me, thanks). Anyhow, in that episode there was symbolism being used the same way as it is in dreams. To use symbolism to interprete OBE/AP does not mean that it refutes OBE/AP as such, but it just means that the astral realm and the dream world are very close. ANd I am adding: it does not mean that OBE are just dreams, but rather that dreams are mostly OBE, take it that way. Since we know how to "solve" dreams and try to interprete them with symbolism, why not try to do the same with OBE/AP?

Shaman The Dreamer

I did not put an interogation mark, as this is not a question I am asking you directly and explicitly, but it is the title of a book.

I would just discuss here (or look for people to discuss with me..) the very first thing that appears in that book as other things that appear in the Old Testement (Tanakh).

So let's start with the first part, say just Genesis (Bereshit in Torah, first book of the Bible).

The creation is written twice. We have a full story of the creation that is repeated twice with some differences. And this apparent repetition (everything twice) appears in many places in the Bible. These two texts can be easily separated, and the main difference that appears is that in one God is refered to as "Elohim" (from El=God) and in the other God is refered to as "Yhwh". Clearly there were originally two texts that were later on put together. Two texts the same ways that there were two kindoms: Israel and Judah. There are many additions to this theory, so that all in all there are up to 5 sources (and not only two) and also a person who assemble the whole things together. The main people suspected to have been involved in the "puting" it together are the "prophets" (neviim), or maybe just one of them..?

Anyhow, I am asking how the jewish scholars explain the occurence of each story as two stories. What explanation is there behind having everything repeated twice, once with E (lohim) and once with Y(hwh) - taking care to notice that the stories are not always consistent with each other.

I have more questions,  but for another time..

Hi there,

I am not sure if it is since I have a new version of netscape, but I notice that when I access the astral pulse forum main page the topics on the upper left where I could click on profile (and edit and change profile) have dissapeared!

I am unable to edit my profile...

Is it possible to have just a simple link to reach that? like all
the link to the forums? I really don't understand what happened to the list of topics that used to be in the upper left corner, under the Astral Pulse logo,.... magic...

Any help?

I had a dream last night that I was a US soldier and I was in a hospital in Irak. Saddam was in a bed with two other people close to him. I took my M16 and shot them all. Then I ran away. All the time in the dream, President Bush was with me... kind of weird..
I see this a sign that within a day or two Saddam will be caught (probably shot by US troops).

AS you all know dreams come often in signs and symbolism, for example water can represent purification, spirituality, ... the house represent our mind/brain, etc...

Prophecies have often come in dreams as precognitive dreams, dreams in which one has visions of the future. Such prophetic dreams are described in many places, see for example the old testament, the story of Joseph, Daniel, etc...

What I want to address here are the precognitive dreams of everyone (if anyone knows s/he has such dreams) and the signs and symbolism that appear to be used in the dream. A good example that I know of is a dream of raw meat: raw meat represents the death of the physical body and if one dreams of raw meat it means that someone is going to die. If you dream that a piece of raw meat is given to you (and it is not meal time in the dream) then there are good chance that your transition (death) has come. If the meat is given to someone you know, then tha persons will die, etc... Other symbolisms that I know of are the teeth. dreaming of loosing a teeth represents the lost of a family member. If one dream that s/he loses all her/his teeth then the dreaming person might die, etc... Other symbolism that I have experienced are associated with terrorism, where when I see in a dream a corpse laying on the floor it means that a terrorist attack is imminent. Other symbolism is in the numbers as follows: I dream of 4 identical pieces of raw meat and the it means: 4 days will pass and a person that I know will die (for example). Here I do not give more details, since I just want to give the examples. If I happen to have a specific premonition I will post it here for  it to be checked. The premonition can come in vision where I see things, or it can come in hearing a voice - all these during normal night time dreaming - not during astral projection.

I would be glad to hear of anyone who has premonition and whether signs and symbolism are used and how they are used. Thanks.

There is no physical and no sex in the astral, it is all in your mind (or in your head if you like), it is completely similar to having erotic dreams, you can wake up and find out that your physical body responded to it.

Anyhow, I prefer having "physical sex" rather than "astral sex". I prefer experiencing friendship and love in the physical with real people which I know I can meet everyday, rather than someone who would pop out of nowhere in the astral.

When I was younger I often had erotic dreams that I had sex with my sister(s) (one at a time). But these were related to my physical body as I would wake up to find out that "I'm all wet"... Any how, it is an interesting interaction of the mind body. A proof that sex has very much to do with the mind and with how we "see" and percept things and other people.

All this reminds me of a post about lucid dreaming (on astralpulse) and this guy who was voluntarily having sex during AP but he also voluntarily would experience killing people in the astral.... kind of weird and freaky! Eventually he stopped doing that. Forgot his username.

Yes, manistas means hands in spanish.

Your icone looks like the hand of an alien and your username "manix" reminded me of manita-hand. So I just felt like calling you so. I hope it is OK. Is that OK Manix?

I am taking gotu kola and GInko Biloba for a few weeks (together with other things.. - I'm just experimenting on my very own self!).

I must confess that what works best when taking all these, is actually your disponibility of mind in the morning when you wake up. If someone wakes you up and you have to get out of bed, then the dream is lost - at least for me. Sometimes I wake up in the night and start remembering the details of the dream I just had. The problem is that then it often happens that I cannot go back to sleep... []

As to melotonin it is safe to take daily before going to sleep, it can be found any pharmacy without prescription as it is an over the counter thing usually found on the same shelf with the vitamins.

And of course it is important not to be tired, to sleep 8h a day. If I sleep only 6h a day for several days, then I cannot remember anything, I'm just too tired (and each time I try to practice meditation, I fall asleep ).

Shaman - the dreamer []