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Sounds like your letting your internal Beliefs play out your Astral experience

Remember your THOUGHTS create your reality

Do you think it makes a difference in projecting?

When i had my first projection i had just a thin sheet on

I talked to my Sant Mat teacher a few days ago and he told me the places I've been visiting are probably the Lower Heavens.

The Lower Heavens are the places 99.999% of people go to when they die. All the Higher-Heavens are protected by gateways who are protected by Guardians. Before entering the Higher Heavens for the first time you'll need to be tested. It really helps to come with a letter of recommendation. That is why I'm into Sant Mat. Their whole philosophy deals with the mechanics of Heaven. A real Sant Mat teacher will absorb your karma and show you to these gateways. He does this by "picking you up" when you are asleep or meditating. It takes a Master undoubtedly.

Anyway... I've been visiting the Lower Heavens while I astral project on my own sometimes at night. They can be beautiful. Everything shines about 2 or 3 shades lighter than where we are here: this cruel physical reality.

They have cities, and subways, and music clubs, movies, and things to do instead of eating, and tons of different amazing wacky stuff you can't imagine! It's a fun place to visit except for a nasty little game they play.

You see... everyone on the Lower Heavens it pretty much stuck there. Most of them eventually last a few years, many a century, before they drift back down to a physical reality and are born again. This is good and bad. While nobody wants to leave Heaven - even a lower one - being born again allows us to work a lot more on our spiritual development. Physical reality is REAL as in things go "bump" and this is where most progress can be made on our spiritual progress. YOu can do this in the Lower Heavens but it's a lot more difficult. Things change so much... it's not a really stable place to practice.

So these nasty games they play in the Lower Heavens... When a "higher-up" is seen in the Lower Heavens everyone wants to steal his key or magic. It's almost a primitive instinct. The techniques to do this are on an amazing complexity by now. It's very sick in a way.

So if you find yourself in the Lower Heavens best thing to do is try to scampper off to a deserted area so you won't attract attention. Definately don't use your magic or you will attract people to you. I've done this numerous times believing I was in a dream of my making (but wasn't) and ended up being hounded and taken in to their facility for dealing with "higher-ups". They are interrogated etc. It's a digusting process I had to endure once. It never goes anywhere and you eventually just wake up from the exhaustion of being poked, proded, and pulled.

It's still a fascinating place to visit. I sat through one of their movies once and was awed. They have the same stuff we do but much better! At least in an eye-candy kind of way. If it wasn't for me being so shiny I could of stayed longer and blended in.

Anyways... I guess my motivation to write this is for someone here on Earth to read it and get a Sant Mat teacher. I know a few religions... but this one deals exclusively with Heaven. It's the closest thing I've come to a real spiritual practice. So hopefully you can find a Teacher too. He can take you all the way Up. So when you die you'll be able to pass the gateways into the Higher Heavens where the real beauty is. Oh... it's so beautiful. And not get stuck in the Lower Heavens... which although 2 or 3 grades brighter than our world are still problematic and full of mean selfish people.

Hierachy nonsense. There is no ascending or descending only the acceptance that you are that which you think you are separated from

That is some messed up shi*t.

Engagement -

I see these types of conversations pop up more and more in these forums. It is wordplay - "dreams = astral projection". No. Not even close in my book. That would be like saying  - 1976 Datsun b210 = 2010 Nissan GT-R. Sure they are both cars that can get you somewhere but...

Please don't try to reinvent the wheel here. Please try to utilize the language and terminology that is already present. Excuse me if I misunderstood you in some way, I think I understand what you are trying to say but...

It doesn't sound to me like you have projected or been to the astral realm that you can remember. When you do have that experience you will know there is a grand difference and the specific terminologies will certainly apply.

I know my dreams very well. I know my lucid experiences very well. They are distinctly different. A conscious projection is NOTHING like any type of dream I have ever had. Apples and oranges, in my book.

The experience you have will be based on your perceptions, your state of mind, level of awareness and scope of focus. Dreams you usually remember once you wake up. Lucid dreams and OBE's you "experience" as it is happening and are generally lucky to remember once you awaken unless you have a technique that helps.

I probably shouldn't be typing this as I haven't slept in over 24 hours. 2 cents worth.

Yes we tend to say idiotic things when we havent slept in over 24hrs.. you gave us a good example.

And Yes you misunderstood and as for reinventing the wheel I will use whatever terminology I please buddy. I have astral projected

I am not really sure if we are astral projecting when we are dreaming. Sometimes, I think dreams are just the mind replaying the incidents of the day. When I was a teacher, I used to have teaching dreams. I used to go into the classroom and teach even in my dreams. It was so frustrating. But now, I no longer have teaching dreams because I no longer teach. So, isn't that just an overstressed brain replaying incidents in a distorted fashion over and over again?

I agree somewhat. I think the mind can replay over the events of a day, almost overlay parts of the physical into the non physical depending on how we are coping with life

Yet there are many places in the dreamstate that I have seen that are just not of this world

sounds like a funny one to me 

When we see someone who has been there we will then say it exists other than a picture

very cool thanks for sharing that.

It begins with remembering, as you remember after, you will begin to remember while it occurs. Becoming conscious while it happens

Jack sounds like it wasnt astral more related to your illness

I think you might need to lay off the wacky backy  

Sounds like a Near Death Experience (NDE). You should download Monday's epiosde of Coast to Coast which was Near-Death Encounters. Although, it is pretty rare to die from the flu or a cold, it still sounds pretty similar to what he described.

The youtube version is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiyopZRMwj8

Im not sure it was a near death experience as, had I not said I was ill people would have just taken that as a regular projection.

Though I will check out the coast to coast episode

Were you taking Tylenol and flu pills while this happened?

hi Kurt, I had taken tylenol daytime flu pills and an hour later decided to have a lie down, I feel asleep in the same position which was on my side with my butt just on the edge of the bed. I don't know how long into the sleep the above occured but it was extremely vivid.

I have only had 1 other time where I experienced projection and that was a year or 2 ago and what is interesting about both is, when it occurs you immediately know something is different, like an awareness that you are more than your body, a sense of expansion.

I became aware of like a whooshing, it wasnt a sound but more like the sense of being filled up and expanding out. I knew immediately I was experiencing projection or some kind, so I willed myself to roll and i felt like what I imagine an egg would feel like being rolled in an egg cup, a definate sense of 2 things. The next moment I was upright on the side of my bed, having difficulty pulling my last leg out of bed ( now i look back i had a lot of blankets on the bed and I wonder if that caused that ) I  could hear my kids watching tv and then the next moment I was waking up still in the same position i went to sleep in, tucked under my covers completely.

I would like to be able to bring on one of these as so far they have happened spontaneously, this time I was not afraid and I have to say I felt amazing like all the cares of life had been lifted from me.

Last few days I have been suffereing from a cold, sleeping then up for about 3 hours then back down for 2hours. This afternoon kids were home, wife was home. I was asleep and again I became aware of, what I can only explaion as a rushing, think about a heart beating in and out, and  a wave of energy rushing in on the in breath it was like that.

I knew projection was or had happened so I willed myself to open my eyes but found them super heavy, I felt like my whole body was like an egg in an egg cup, I was willing myself to roll out of my body onto and off the bed, the next moment I was upright i could see myself pulling my leg out of the blankets and hearing my kids watching tv. I could feel everything so much that I could swear it was just me but then in the next moment I opened my eyes and i was still in the same position i went to sleep in.

Now thing is here I was not doing any techniques I simply went to sleep as I have been not well. So it was a spontaneous one. Man it was something else though.

I woinder how much things like tylenol flu pills and having the flu can have to do with projecting

I disagree.  I have bilocated enough times in projection to know that you don't leave your body completely in projection- your conscious mind does.  Other experiences, such as the Dweller phenomenon, also support this view.

Maybe, I mean just because we see ourself outside of our physical body that might not mean we are actually outside of the body.

For what is the body? What is the physical plane?

Everything we know is Energy, every material thing is just energy at a different vibration

There is no seperation of anything and even that what we perceive is seperating us, is energy itself. Keeping everything as one thing

The term " Seperation " is something that refers to something here and something there, with little thought to whats in between ( hence time and relativity came to be ). We are used to this understanding as in this conscious state of the physical world without it, we wouldn't be able to operate and have the experiences we do.

Yet according to those who have spent a great deal of time in the astral plane consciouslly. There is not time, you only think a place and you are there, you haven't moved from here to there, but a shift of attention has occured and with it so does your experience seemingly

Essentialy different states of consciousness change our perception and in turn change our experience.

Which explains why Frank Kepple refered to it as Phasing, and not seperation. As well as bringing up that monroe in his later years suggested that it was not seperation, but an internal experience. A state of conscious awareness and different states of consciousness

What we see with our eyes doesn't always equate what is truth

lol i wish they would put the quote link on the far right instead of modiyf i keep hitting modify instead of quote

Tonight before I sleep I will test something and let you know the results tommorow

I imagine if It it was an equation it might look like this


Astral Plane = Dream State ( we all do it and enter it every night )

Dream State = Unconscious observer (seeing) and particpant (doing), which is not aware that its a dream until you wake up ( what most people do)

Astral Conscious = Being in the Dream State BUT instead you become aware at some point in the dream, that it's a dream and so you become a Conscious observer and particpant, able to choose what to see and do and upon waking up aware you was conscious in the dream  ( you know in the dream and upon wake that you knew in the dream )

Astral Projection = Astral conscious but conscious upon exit ( experience leaving body ) and able to choose what to see and do and at times conscious of returning to body ( experience returning to body )  ( you know in dream and upon wakening up )

Lucid Dreaming = On the border of waking up, eyes flutter, your seeing the dream and physical at same time whether through physical eyes or through your eye lids. A combination of conscious and unconscious.

Sometimes I feel as if I'm accessing memories of the past or future when I'm dreaming and just watching them, like you would with a movie.

Interesting..

But are you aware in the dream itself that you are observing and able to make choices or are you unconscious and only remember this upon waking up

Sounds like astral conscious

You werent aware when you projected out

But you were aware in the dream. In a sense this was astral projection as you had projected but have no memory of the projection so some people class that as not astral projection

It wasnt lucid dreaming, lucid is when your waking up and your eyes are fluttering and you are still sleeping but your waking at the same time.. i.e things are lucid..

From Frank Kepples posts and from other books I'v started to come to the conclusion that

Astral project is not something seperate from dreaming

It is simply entering the dream state ( something we do each night ) but being conscious you are dreaming and in doing so are able to make decisions and choices instead of being an observer who only remembers upon waking up

As it has been said time and time again by astral projection books and teachers

" We project every night, but we just dont remember it "

So from what I can tell - forget techniques, forget meditation and third eyes, ropes hanging from the ceiling and blah blah blah

Just realize we are all doing it but some of us are at times becoming more conscious of it before and in our dreams

Dream state = Astral plane

We just need to remember our dreams, as in doing so  we will be able to determine

Was I conscious that I was dreaming when I dreamt that part? or am I only remembering that dream upon waking up after a night of sleep

To give an example

last night i dreamt all night but I only remember 2 dreams

1. Running from the law, in a ferrari car ( remembered this in the morning )

2. I was with a person who had needles of liquid and he was telling me about projecting and how he was scared because he sees alien beings, At this moment in the dream I said I need to get back to my body ( remembered in the dream itself that I was not in body )   I remember after waking that I had said this while in the dream itself

So... for both parts I was in the astral projection state but in the first part I was unconscious of it, and in the 2nd I was conscious of it while it was happening

Now essentially from what I can grasp, some people become conscious on the onset of dreaming ( they see the projection out ), some in dream and some as they slowly awake, seeing both dream world and physical world ( lucid )

Correct me if Im wrong but im pretty much  feeling that this is astral projection in a nutshell

Really it should be called

Astral Conscious

We can split hairs and say that its only projection if you saw yourself coming out of your body, yet essentially any awareness/ consciousness that you are dreaming can be classed under astral projection or conscious of the astral projection state

So instead of Dreaming ( not aware of choices in the astral, just seemingly like puppets seeing and doing without choice)

We are dreaming but conscious that its a dream, and aware of choices, so instead of just going right or left in the dream like a puppet led by our dream, we can literally choose which way to go while in the dream

We are consicous of that decision vs having no idea why we went left or saw this person or saw that building

And so when we become conscious a bit like waking up out of a day dream, we can then choose to go places, do things, and see things

So it explains why people have a hard job as they are trying to remember the actual EXIT vs long after the exit has occured and full dreaming is happening.

Most of us I feel are dreaming at night ( unconscious )

A full on astral projection would be ( conscious on exit and while having the dream )

Im feeling mine are partial - meaning last night I became conscious for a moment in dream

So, our job is to remember as in remembering we can determine which parts were unconscious and which parts were conscious

Copt of original post that went astray

This method workes wonders for many people. This method is copyrighted the only people that can publish this are JB and Robert Bruce. Thanks you omega

Mind Awake=Body Asleep this is all you need to AP you don't need a technique at all. Here is how you do it when your rested repeat in your mind. Mind Awake and try to move your consinious to your brain. Then say Body Asleep in your mind and move your consciousness to your body its that easy. What I do is make two different colors so I can switch back and forth from Mind Awake and Body Asleep. I imagine my Body is a light blue and my brain is orange. When you inhale say in your mind Mind Awake then imagine your body is a light blue with an orange brain. Since your mind is awake increase the color of your orange brain make it brighter and your body dimmer. Then do the opposite when you exhale Say in your mind Body Asleep and dim your orange brain and make your light blue body brighter. You have to remember to say Mind awake or Body asleep in your mind depending on witch one your moving your consciousness to. This is a very easy method you have to try it.

you are telling us a technique yet you said we dont need a technique lol

Seems to me based on what peoples have said

Astral project occurs for everyone, every night

But most of the time we are not aware, we dont remember

So we dream/view it but arent conscious of it.

So correct me if im wrong but the process is to not project but to just remember our dreams and in doing we will be able to tell the times that we are conscious and not conscious.

i would examine your religious beliefs that you have held or hold as that might be what is causing you to see things that reflect your beliefs

That particular video... we can *ONLY* assume to be BS, mostly because it's a non-controlled environment.

i agree