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Yes it really can drain you...i've been trying energy movement tech niques from new energy ways and man i've never had such a heavy feeling...i experieneced sensations i only felt when vivsting a healer...spasms around the nbase chakra and poweverful waves of energy...i am trying not get confused betwenn by energy and a neg sensation...and yes having done it for 45 minutes i feel pretty drained..go get some fresh air and do somthing grounding like playing frizbee..

Sorry McArthur I 've been abit slow on this post...to your question the spasming in my groin area, yes i had felt wierd flowinf sensations and pinpricks etc that were not nice at all in the way you cant quite explain..(sort of like a violation i guess) but the spasm i spoke about not i had never felt that before. It was so strange..it felt as though there was somthing struggling, as though it disliked the energy from what peter was doing.

It eventually came away, but it had got a good grip!!

Nasty pieces of work...and not something 'talking about' solves..especially to your friends that are not in this sort of beleif system, so this forum is a good place for people to get things of their chest...

hi mcarthur i hope it went well down in sunny devon! i was there a few weeks ago seeing peter, it was in fact from you (via dark knight) that i heard about him. I do thinkit is worth spending the money, as he spends a large amount of time working on these things and he's got a family so of course he can charge, what on earth would he live on if he didnt? i think people should not see it as charging for the skills he has rarther the time it takes to use them, i mean he is very busy all the time so the only alternative would be to be on the dole...anyway due to my wayward  ways and curiosity at uni I ended up putting a hole in my aura at the brow and bass chakra fron using disaccociative substances...a lesson leart but he was very nice, not at all judgmental, and as soon as he started working a got what felt like a muscle spasm by the upper thigh, which was the attacment fighting back! i had no idea i t would happen straight away!! Anyway let us know how it went, i might go and see him as I wanted to give my friend who is a new dad a protection bead for the baby.

Hi kaili,

his name is peter aziz, he is a from a a shamanic bloodline and his practices have nothing to do with religion. Yes i'd imagine a an entity to mock something such as that as they know it might cause some distress and there fore help them...He knows what he's doing and he can work remotley apparently a photo helps him concentrate...look him up on google he has a web site which explains things...I have to say my instinct when i met him was total trust...he was very nice and not at  all patronising and down to earth...think the matrix  and the oracle and you might get the idea.

Good Vibes to you...what evers up there is always some one who can help if you scratch the surface!!

Li yun

Hey sam i read this and thought of me...!!
Basically I have been suffering form this for a long time too...i allowed my self to be attacked by spirits from taking dissaccaiative drugs when at uni...not the best plan but I did and have had to sort my self out a a tad. I found this forum at christmas when I too thought i might well be going mad but luckliy i was reassured that I was not. There are many bit of advise you can get onthis forum as everyone has there own way of seeing things..the things i found helpful was the practical side...the things you can actually do to help..There are all the protection symbols and verious methods (garlic does help! try eating a clove at bed) leaving the light on when sleeping, music...but still you want rid of this don't you? Some one helped me with advise such as this but i soon realised i needed to go and see someone who can help with great effect. So from a reeference off this site I went to a shamanic healer named peter...it took me months to build up the courage but I made the trip and saw him...he was very friendly and...i explained my situation as i too have had treouble with my eyes and saw this snake like think just out of sight as you said...from one look at me he told me i was 'blown wide open' at the brow and base chakra...this made some sense....expeieneces from drugs or just astral expeorineces tend to be strored in the base chakra so I lay down, he got his dragon's pearl crystal and wispered let go while molving his hands over my bass chakra...within a second a was feeling a spasoming down there which was the neg fighting bck apparently....over an hour he drew it out through my head, and fixed the two hole in my aura...i could feel him knitting it back up!! amazing...i could go on and on but you get the gist...he told me i had had the eqivilent of spiritual major sugary...its not to say you have a hole in your aura but you might have picked this up as a child (children are pretty vunereble to negs)
my advise...sure use the techniques discribed to you for ridding ngs but if you think its been a long time i would ask around on this forum for someone you performs entity removal, (you'e abit to far away form the uk!! although this guy can do it remotley on the astral) there will be someone near by its just a question of research...
i too felt like screaming at times but state of mind is essential...you really have to give of the vibe to it that you dont care what it does and in fact you hardly notice (even if you do) I hope this helps, I just feel that nailing these things on the head is better, and then use protection to stop prevent it happening again.
Take care Li yun

I was wondering what people thought about this. I keep seeing in people posts that they use god and their belief in god to help them in response to a neg attack or similar. I have been 'there' with christianity but certain shifts in my life and what I see in the world today has left me with a profound mistrust of religion in general. Before I go on this is NOT an attack on peoples beliefs. What i find that I cant right now give myself up to anything such as religion as it seems to be a cause alot of the wars at the moment. Of course this is a sweeping statement as beliefs help people hugley and have many positive and goodt things to offer. However my belief in God is of the universe and of the very way everything works together to create it...that to me is god...I am not trying to sound like I know what im talking about..indeed i am rather confused (but happy) at the moment. I just cant bring myself to ask god to help me in this way when my belief is so ungrounded. I feel i would be hypacritical in doing so. My philosophy is that religions are all diffrent but are all aiming to the same thing in the centre. If you imagine what we percive as god in the middle of a circle and different religions suround this idea but they all come from varying point around this circle but all aiming towards the centre. It upsets me when there are so many conflicts between people due to the fact they dont belief in things in the same way and this im afraid is a main cause to alot of the conflicts going on. therefore this makes me mistrust the whole thing in a way and therefore find (due to a mildy christian upbringing) that I cant just use 'god' because im suffering from nasty attacks at night etc.
I feel i am a compassionate person with a genuine urge to help create a better world but for the last few years it has been without an established belief system, but just my own positive attitude (somthing i have had to work on) is this a plausable way to exist? Is this 'turning away from god' i do like to keep am open mind as i am still a young adult...anyway some might think im in the wrong forum but it is to do with psycic self defence in essence. Just a spu r of the moment post anyway i hope it isnt too much of a rant.

Take care Li Yun

ps this forum has been a massive and invaluable help to me since i joined at x-mas..thanks!!!

hi fellow forumers, i was wondering if anyone in england on thie forum practices the banishimg of neg attacks or knows of anyone...I am a student in leeds and have been experiencing what i think can only be a neg attack for some time now...it is not too strong but it is deep rooted...recently I have been feeling like there is somthing kind of prodding me and sort of glooping around the surface of my body...with this comes an intense pins an needles like itching that really isn't a physical symtom...basically...its doing my head in and i would love to meet someone who is experineced in this area who i can really explain my problem...then I can get sorted and learn to properly protect myself and stop lurking around psd!! don't get me wrong this forum is a life saver!! Enderwiggen said he could help me but he really does deal with some serious cases and is a busy man at the moment as well as being in the USA, so i am hoping a might find someone closer! plur Li Yun xxx

does anyone know what makes those really strange noises when one is about to project?
I'm just curious i remeber being abit scared of them until i realised that theres nothing to worry about..they're almost to keep people out who perhaps aren't quite ready yet to enter the astral (indeed it is everyones right) anyway if i could sample them some how (impossible i know) it would make for an amazing psy trance or techno track!!!! anyway just a thought[]

hello everyone, i'm new to this site and am very glad to have found it. As its boxing day (lots of drink and food recently) i'll cut a long story short(er);
I have since i was about nineteen experienced a strange pressure around my face and eyes especially the mouth that i can only describe as being from 'somewhere else'. I t happened when I was in a deep (drug induced) trance and had been travelling  through what seemed like space. I know its not good to use drugs to reach these states but its best to be open with these sorts of things. anyways...I saw a point of light ahead that had the a living quality to it, as though it was some sort of being....i challenged it and the light came forward and envelpoed my face and head like it was passing through it. however it didn't it stayed there and gripped me.

This  i tried to forget and for ages i pushed it to the back of my mind, as it was too 'far out' and spacey to bring up in general conversation without uneccesarily worrying people. But when ever i was in bed or at a quiet moment, i could feel this pressure on my teeth and mouth, up to my noosee and my eyes like soem sort of horrilble mask. i felt like some thing else had taken over, as i didn't look like myself (that probably just a trait of being too long a student) I tried to move it with my mind and have felt close to doing so many times, but its so hard to battle something that you don't know what it is, especially when you don't want to believe that it exists. big dilema; and no one to talk to. i have some amazing friends who are quite spiritual, but I just couldn't talk to them about it as no one is into astral projection (in a practical sence) or had any experinece.
I am naturaly a energetic person yet since then, i don't seem to have the zest that is me and having just read the paper on psychic self defence it seems perhaps this is some sort of 'energy drainer'. Don't get me wrong i have been at uni fo rthe last three years so it things do get tiring and so on. but I know that something is there on my face for some reason, and know i'm 23 its time i stood up to this fear and sorted it out. i havn't let it get me too down but one feels terribly alone with such a problem, and i'm really pleased to have found this site. (google again! typed in; astral, beings, attach, face)
I am going to try the garlic and other counter measures, but it has been so long with it i feel maybe visiting a healer would be better. Anyway any advise would be greatly appreciated as i am like a lost child at the moment when it come to this....has anyone else experienced this or am i mad? i don't think i am at all (really)
anyway merry christmas  to you all and new year too! thanks for your time and sorry about the spelling!

ps soltice at stone henge was beautiful, so clear and sunny but frrrreezing! anyone there?

YES!! I have these prickling sensations too! They are very annoying and requires a strong will to not generate any negative energy off which im guessing they 'feed'. In fact I woke up with them and as im wrting I can feel this wierd almost warm but not pressure on my lower back. I am under abit of stress at the mo...left my home i grew up in last week and staying with a mates family while attemting to get a gardening business underway and so I am reckoning that its left me vunaerable...by the way i just did the arm spinning thing and it does have an effect...they're not all gone but dramatically dampened...at least i have an exercise at night to do when it gets bad...sometimes i just wanna jump up and go on a massive run but i know i cant cos im so physically drained from work...anywa am ranting but in answer to your question..yes...best thing to do is to no show any sign that its getting to you...also do you get 'odd' sensation around your base chakra? I do and i wouldnt wish it upon anyone i can tell you...anyway over and out..Li Yun peace

This is well interesting! I do not have much to add to this as I have not experienced this....my AP ing has been halted for reason that have brought me to this forum...hopefully soon i will be seeing a man about a dog if you get my meaning...do you lot play computer games? Just a thought...its first thing that came to mind with having a controller....I do not play them myself as id rather be writing music but i used to when i was younger alot...to go on a tangant, have you ever experineced an OBE where by random things such as household onaments such as pots and sculptures or furniture from childhood are there in the room...i did a few months ago while having a dream within a dream within which i APed...it was intensley strange to wake up from (I was covered in sweat) thing is as i said above my AP days are on hold for the moment however I sometimes have them without meaning to and get thrown aaround the room (probably due to a form of stress but im not sure) I was finishing my degree at the time and wasnt enjoing it!! Anyway sorry to go off topic abit but when one need to ramble one must do so!! Big love Li[]Yun

if nothing else works then get in contact with a healer...they will be able to help and something that could be hard for you to do will probably be a walkover to them..ask around on the site someone in the USA near you will know of one.[]

i think its hard to abuse natural mushrooms as if you try to they will simply abuse you back in a scary way! Sort of like them saying why are you back here? we've shown you what you need to see....flyagaric? good ehh? would like to try and have a chat to the little people...

i was reading your post and realised that someone had put a link to my first plea six months ago..I hope it helps you see that many people are affected in the same way. Not only herbs and incense but symbols work as well (see roberts notes) i was dubious at first but by drawing one on me all the time it keeps me from a full on attack...do you do drugs? which ones if so? i am not judgmental about such things for or against but having been put in touch with a shmanic healer he said it was probably the fact that i took drugs at university (nothing too serious!!!) he said he can heal  and show me to rebuild my aura which is the defensive barrier against negs etc...untill i get a chance to go down to see him i am just using symbols and griting my teeth...its not pleasent but at least i have idea of what i am dealing with which is a massive help copared to when i wrote first...don't give up, take extreme action if you want to nip this in the bud...by that i mean, make contact with anyone if they can help and don't shy away...good luck, do not be worried

what about shamanic practices? in serbia they are known to take fly agaric mushroom (the red one with white spots) to access the other world and they seems to know what they are doing and why and have done for years...i'm not countering your opinion but just interested in the subject...the fall of the roman empire was blatently down to the fact that they battered it too much so this is true....

you guys are off on one! talk about off topic! heh heh...
anyway to the author..good to hear its sorting out...I am under attack from entities lots, i stave it off with a infinate cross on drawn with a pen on my stomach...they really do work certain symbols...thank go d for this forum..six months ago i was on the brink of losing the plot...so i decided to find out what was up with me...now i know i am not scared as i know what its is i am dealing with...half the battle really...i am in in contact with a shamanic healer who says he can sort it out and helped someone here...and my use of drugs was a possible reason (can put holes in your aura) so it all looks good...to anyone suffering on this forum...do not...take positive action against your problem and don't pretend its not happening like i did for three years...there are people out there who know thier s**t on this sort of thing and thank god they do!!knowledge seems to be power! sorry this is a ramble in its self but i just thought i'd say...thanks to people on this site..the end of the battle is in sight[]

in reply to your question yes...i have that kind of thing going on, energy draining and attachment. I too am getting it sorted by going to a shamanic healer down south...he was recomended to me through this forum...my advise is...get info to work out what your problem is (which you seem to have done) and make moves to sort out (again looks like you are) and then don't allow your mind to wallow in the situation anymore than you must. ie don't give these negs the time of day! they like attention...just accept it and believe it will be sorted and things will subside! hope all goes well olly

I find that I can see energy when lying in bed my sight kinda drifts and then suddenly all this stuff is flowing around everywhere at high speed as though im seeing the air flows or some kind of spirit...thie thing is i can still freak my self out everyso often about ghosts but when im seeing this full blown movement everywhere i look it some ho isn't frightening at all.

thats great thanks alot for that...I have sent an e-mail explaining things so hopefully he can tell me if he is familiar with what i've been experiencing...i was planing to go and get work in cornwall after uni in june which is next to devon where he is so it might work out well! thanks again much appreciated! Li Yun

Kazbadan: it was me who missread when you said obes experience, for some reason i didn't click you meant out of body, I thought it might be a type of dream state and the word for it was 'Obes'
whoops!![]

go and talk to an acupuncturist they earn a living finding your correct energy points in the 'network, of which the main chakras are the larger ones....




but then again nothing is real....so if its real then its something and so on.....[]

hi Kazbadan; i was just wondering, whats an oboes dream/experinece?
i've not heard of it before and i'm really intertesed in dreams...(probably cos i spend so much time asleep!!!)[|)]

the other day I was being a lazy student and hitting my snooze button over and over on my alarm for about two hours (every six minutes) I have found that this contantly keeps you in that extremley strange zone of light sleep but intense dreams...its pretty fun you should try it...now this isn't total proof  but i was aware that i'd arranged to go indoor rock climbing that afternoon and remember being concerned that there might not be many ropes up on the routes which limits what you can climb (if you don't have your own rope) with that in mind my thought morphed into another dream/concept type thing where i was at the climbing centre and i could see one corner and noted that there where a few ropes up...good stuff! i woke up and didn't think too much about it, as i'm always having dreams like that.
Anyway I met my mate and drove to the centre and when we got there I was struck by the way that the routes with ropes up were the ones i'd seen (the routes and ropes change all the time ramdomly) anyway it isn't of course proof on totality, but it was a nice idea to think i had a little peak in my dream to see if they were there or not...anyway ramble on......[]

by the way guys have any of you heard of John c lilly? he was a well known neuroscientist and dolphin communication researcher amongst many other things. He had pioneered the isolation tank and did all sorts of experiments with LSD psilosybin and K (while sensory deprived in the floatation tank)
he is widely known as the Columbas of the mind as he used science as his gauge for it all in order to remain non sceptical about his discoverys and to convince the rest of the scientific community.
Check his site out and his book called 'The scientist'i reckon some of you here would be interested!

www.johnclilly.com

sorry i havn't tried it but i know friends who have..(I did try to try it in the summer but it was not a dose so did nothing)
what i've heard about it is that you can reach other dimentions of being where you encounter other entities etc...it was interesting that a mate chris siad that when he smoked it once he left the physical plane and pushed his head up into the 'other' one where by he saw some beings that apparently where shocked to see him as though they were saying 'wooww what are you doing here!!!'
he reckoned it wasnt a negative 'wooow' but one of surprise...perhaps to them in the other place seeing us suddenly there is similar to us seeing a ghost!!?? just a thought anyway...

Another point i've heard is...eastern culture someone might spend there whole life preparing for alternate reality and getting there eventually,,,,western culture someone has an instant experince and spends there rest of their life trying to work it out....

These aren't my opinions at all but they're interesting ideas anyway....to be honest i would like to try Divine Moments of Truth properly...being a curious individual....[]