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Anybody know what happenned? Where they are gone to? Has something happen to make them leave? Or are they only in vacation?

Miss their comments...

I would like to know from all of you who are users of any CDs (Monroe's institute or any other) or the BWG on your approach towards these.

For myself I have the BWG, the whole Gateway (wave I to VII) from TMI, the "deep meditation" and a few others.

Frankly I have had less success with all of those in getting the symptoms of OBE (vibrations etc...) than the traditionnal approach as in Astral Dynamic. Mind you, I haven't experience an OBE yet, but I'm working at the conventionnal approach (if I can call it that way), because I'm too disappointed with all of these "aids".

For exemple, when I first experience Focus 10 and Focus 12, the experience was fabulous. Heard myself snore at Focus 10 and felt this "expansion" of consciousness with Focus 12. The second and subsequent listening brought nothing.

Those of you who have had success with these, how do you use them?
Do you listen every day? Does the effect grow on you?  Do the continous listening increase your capacity to attain the Focus states? In short what is your training program?

Just wondering if the phasing approach wasn't better suited to those who are already OBEing?

Robert Monroe started with a method that is very simmilar to the approachs written in numerous books from different authors on how to achieve an OBE: Relaxation, trance etc... it all comes down to the same essentials.

Phasing was attained by R. Monroe after many years.

Could it be that it's a normal evolution for a person who has been OBEing for a while. That the more experiences someone has, the more refine the technique gets...to eventually...phasing ?

It would be interesting Frank to get your comments on this subject. How did you get that first one? Could you have achieved it with the phasing approach?

Maybe the basics are needed for that first one. Such as trance, energy, thoughts control etc... before you get proficient enough to simplify it and do it with phasing.

What are your thoughts on this?

In the past two weeks I have experienced this loud "pop" sound, this is the best description I can give it. In the three times it's happened, I just startle out.

I am aware that this is a normal experience in OBE.

It happens immediatly after I lose my "mind-awake" state. Either I'm asleep, or I'm somewhere in between slep and awakeness.

It is almost as a gun shot near my ears...it sure brings me back.

Anyone can give me hints on this ?

Anyone could share in how to calm the mind in trying to OBE.  I am aware of the breath-awareness that Robert suggest in Astral Dynamic, but I don't have success with it.
I focus my mind and it wanders of a couple of seconds later. Thoughts keep cropping up.

Could any of you shed some light on the vibrations.

To me they are spontanious, they seem to come by themselves, in the "trance" state.

Do some of you have opinions on how to bring them about. Or, are they automatic when you reach a certain level, "body asleep-mind awake".
In one topic Frank talked about "thinking about them in a certain way".

And those of you who are seasonned OBE, once they are there, what do you do ?  Do you let yourself carried with them ? Do you act on them ?

Hi!

My life has been a spiritual quest, as most of you I'm sure. There are blessed moments that comes as the tide and lifts you up. In those moments, I write poetry, mostly in french (I'm french-Canadian) and sometimes in english.

I wanted to share this one with you, as you share your experiences on this forum, thank you all.

SET ME FREE

An eagle on the rim of the nest
A jump  from freedom
To soar with the wind
Ever high, ever free

Ah! The subtle traps of the mind
In the woven fabric of life
The illusion of warmth
Coldness of the Soul

Spirit entangled in a web
So far and yet so near
Oh God! Clear the way
Cleanse me! Love me!

To soar in Your realm
Embraced in Thy Love
Consumed in fire
Set me free!

Hello !
Newcomer to this site, discovered it after searching for books on OBE on Amazon.com, bought Robert's book "Astral Dynamics", and surfed to this web site.

Been trying for a very, very long time to OBE. Started to try when I was around 15 year , I am now 57.  Never had a conscious one. I've experienced twice in the last 20 years the vibrations while meditating. Never really new what was happening.

Trying, in the last three weeks,  the techniques in the above mentionned book, I've had twice the vibrations, body flush. And I am very thankful to have learned from  Robert's book the symptoms in the process of OBE:  vibrations, cobweb, flush etc... and for the techniques offered.

My writing this subject is to ask to those of you who have mastered OBE, if you could please be patient with those of us who are struggling to get the a first experience, and give us an helping hand.

Since finding this site, I wrote twice, never got any answers. Even sending email, didn't get a reply.

I understand that sometimes some questions must seem dumb and are answered in Robert's book, but hey guys, things that seems so down to earth and simple to you, are very complicated to those of us who don't have the experience of OBE.

Would it be possible to have a continously active subject like "HELP"  for those of us who are fully motivated and giving it all they have, to post their question even if it seems futile to you OBE masters.

Hi!

Hello from Quebec (Canada).
It's my first time on the forum after buying Robert's book. I am still trying to have a first OBE. I have although recognised some of the signs that I didn't know before (cobweb etc...)
Could someone tell me if there is a length of time that you have to keep at it in the rope technique. Is the longer you do it increases the success rate ?
Is there an average.
I have a hard time also to induce the trance state, any help on this would be apreciated.

We create our own world my friend!

Karma is only cause and effect. Your decisions, acts, thoughts are what your future will be. Why blame something else or someone else for your own actions ?

This world is what peoples have made it. When you are angry, YOU are in charge of your emotion, sure you can blame others, but you are in charge of that body. Your world would be a lot better if you refused bad emotions as anger and only give Love. Same with me and everybody.

"A man with his friend where walking towards a newspaper booth talking as friends do, happy to be together. The owner of the booth was in a terrible mood, yelling etc...
The friend was there, not saying a word, and when they lefted he asked: Why did you let that guy treat you like that ?
He replied: Why should I let someone else decide what my humor should be ?

We are the only one in charge of our live, and able to change anything about it. Same with the world.

Theres a lot of talk about drugs, and everybody is putting pressure on the politician and the police to do something about it.
The problem isn't there...ITS PEOPLE BUYING IT. People are the creators of the drug problem.

There's a lot of anger in your words my friend, you will reap what you sow.  Try Love!

[the]

quote:Originally posted by Adrian

Greetings,

Another thought, it would be very useful indeed if members described how you achieve a state of deep physical relaxation. As has been pointed out, this is probably the most important pre-requisite for Astral projection.

With best regards,

Adrian.

This is a GREAT, GREAT suggestion Adrian!! This could be a new post very helpful for thoses struggling for that first one.

Thisha, Brim, Frank and all you lucky, lucky OBE travellers please give your suggestions on this.

You are probably right Tisha. How often I've come close, vibrations, noise etc...and coming back to C1 from the excitement, to stop the session.

Determination is probably as important as the technique. A  "I will do this no matter what" attitude.

You probably have to practice a lot longer to achieve that first one.

It would be interesting to know how long people stayed with the practice session for that first OBE.

Hello Adrian,
Hello Frank (if your back),

I know Adrian that you have followed closely this post and Frank's invaluable comments. I'm having a problem with the raising of eyes, and I would apreciate having your opinion on this.

I'm practicing this approach and two days ago saw the blackness and felt a spinning sensation, and felt very close but my excitement got the better of me and I came back to C.1.

What is bothering me is the raising of eyes upward and at the same time looking through the "third eye". Letting your consciousness rise, looking through the third eye but getting out through the crow chakra...Could you help me sort out all of this, or Frank if you're back ?

Frank wrote:   ..."But now I've realized that there is this Crown Chakra that sets the process off.""" (posted 7th april 2002)

Do you look at the brow or Crown ? The raising of consciousness also gives me difficulties in understanding what is meant. Does it come by itself, or does the raising of the eyes provoques it

Couldn't find answers reading the posts. Hope you can help me sort all of this out, or put the process in a sequence.

Thank for posting your first OBE. I've been trying a very long time for that first one, and your experience could explain the reason behind my lack of success.

I very often reach the stage where I am just bored, fet up, or too tired and I give up.

QUOTE: ""...but for some reason I kept trying, again and again""

Your determination did it. I work at this every day, sometimes twice a day, but I stop, after around 40 minutes to an hour, of trying.  

Thanks for sharing.

quote:Originally posted by Trace

I also wanted to comment on the question asked earlier regarding whether or not CDs are required.  I agree with Nick that, no, they are not required.  But if used as designed, as training tools, they can be most useful.  I have particularly found them useful in training my consciousness to stabilize Focus 10 (mind-awake/body-asleep) and Focus 12 (gateway to the astral).  In the first  set of CDs in the Gateway series by the Monroe Institute ("Wave I"), the last track on the last CD, called "Free Flow 10," the CD takes you to F10 then there is no more voice on the CD until the session ends.  I use this CD to help me stabilize and deepen the F10 state.  The first track on the first CD of Wave II, "Intro to Focus 12," has you go to F10, then F12, then back and forth between the two.  I have found this really helpful in training my mind to tune into F12.

So, while I agree the CDs are by no means required, I have found them useful and they have greatly expedited my journey.

I have the Gateway CD and would like to know how you use them. Do you listen to the CD every day? What in your opinion is the best approach to the CD, in getting the most out of them. I, for myself have gotten deceiving results. The first listening brought a great experience (Focus 10 & 12) but listening to the CD after that first experience seems to produce nothing. So I'm wondering if listening frequently to the CD produces a negative effect, like your brain gets used to the frequencies and doesn't react anymore.

I would appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Hi Nay,

I've had that happen a couple of times. I think that the only thing you can do is to get use to it without reacting. I know! I know! You're there very relaxed and then suddenly this load pop sound jolts you...almost impossible to stay calm. A lot of different sounds can happen when trying to OBE.

I still haven't OBE consciously, but I've read that this "pop" happens when you are "getting out". Could be a memory download problem making us unaware that we got out. One thing sure is that when this happen, we're not far.

Frank, I have just run into your post dated 27 april 2003, where you give a pretty nice explanation of the whole process.

You where ahead of me.

Best news I've heard in a long time Frank!

Especialy for the phasing process. This is what you have called the "tricky" part. Keeping the mind "awake", but not too much, losing the body consciousness...phasing into the astral. When I read your posts on this subject, I know what your are saying, I understand the words, but the difficulty arises in the comprehension of how to do it, of applying it to the mind, to your awareness, in the "how-to".

Although you have writen many time on this, using different wording to try to explain it the best you can, there's a subtleness hard to grasp, unless you have actually done it I guess. Some of the other OBiers writing about their experiences, you could relate to and understand what they where talking about, but I have to imagine and understand the subtleness of the process, try to get a mental comprehension on how to get there.

Please take your time Frank, and go at length in your explanation of this most important aspect of OBE.

I know you've said you had to work hard and a long time to learn to OBE, I'm beginning to wonder if I will ever have one, but your contribution is an incentive, to keep at it.

Very generous of you, thanks!

Hello Frank,

She also said the Focus 12 state is a very important state to work towards achieving as the whole conscious-exit process begins to unfold from Focus 12. Which is something us Monroe fans basically know already. But what she doubly reinforced to me was the importance of this state in the general conscious-exit scheme of things. She did also say that lapses in conscious awareness can also be caused through lack of receptivity to Focus 12. Which is basically what you are experiencing, so maybe this may apply to you also.

Could you explain what she meant by the "lack of receptivity to Focus 12" ?

Hello Frank,

Thank again for taking the time and CARING.

I have recently printed some of your most recent posts, to dwelve on them and try to understand the "fine print" if I can use such an expression.

I am conscious that the points that I wrote in the preceeding post, you have answered in recent replies. Please bear with me in that, when you answer again to the same questions, sometimes the different wording used, help me get a better understanding, of what you are trying to explain.

Trust me that I am not trying to make you lose your time, and that I do read what you write.

Your most recent replies on this post are very usefull, and I am starting to get the point.

Every little bit helps, every new wording helps to better understand.

Thanks again Frank!

Some of the files are over 1 hour long and the files are 5 Ko.

I wanted to burn some preset so as to listen to the CD anywhere I wanted without opening the computer.

There are some DVD burner with that capacity, but they sell for about 400$. So I will use my computer and earphone.

I have downloaded the presets (Astral Pulse download).

Problems is they are all over the capacity of a CD (650MB). Using MP3 to compress won't give the quality needed for binaural beat.

I did find the way to do it (WAV) but when it comes to burn the CD, you get an insufficiant memory on the CD.

Hello Frank,

As many who browse through this site, I am always happy when I see one of your post, and eagerly read it.

I would like to thank you for being so patient and generous with your experiences.

As I have said before, you should write a book!

As you often pointed out, having an OBE is a balancing act, and some of the aspects of the process are hard to explain with the correct wording, and those who are having OBE can relate to what you are explaining.  But its more difficult for those like me, who are working hard at getting that first one, to sometime understand.

Since many experienced OBier have written about their experiences, and their different techniques, it gets to be confusing:
Energy work or not,  phasing , astral projection, Bruce Moen's approach, 3D-blackness, Focus levels, looking behind the forehead etc...etc...

Your posts have been very informative, in the sense that I am beginning to think that everybody is basicaly talking about the same thing but using a different process in getting there...let me explain.

What you are working at, and what R. Monroe described as "phasing", is "the shifting of awareness", the moving of consciousness from one reality to another, a shift in your "attention", transfering one's attention from the physical to the astral body.

Its in the way to GET THERE that is different and where the confusion arises. That why I think it is hard for those who are working towards that first OBE in understanding the process. For myself, I have done Energy work, search for that 3D-blackness, many different techniques without succes, and the more I try to understand to more confusing it gets. I have gotten those vibrations, heat body surges, "inner subtle movements", loud "pop" sound like a shootgun, waking from a short nap with the memory of being partially out and tugging to get my left arm "out".....but no real OBE yet.

Am I right in saying that the requisite to OBE are:

1-   Complete relaxation:  listening to tape 2 (Focus 10) as a primer or any other techniques in getting that complete relaxation

2-   Attaining that shift in consciousness I mentionned earlier.

All the rest is the result of these two! All the books written are different signposts that occurs along the way, from 1 to 2. But basically the process by itself is automatic IF YOU CAN LEARN THIS "PHASING" FROM THE PHYSICAL TO THE ASTRAL.

Could I ask for some of your time just to describe how you work towards this second part. We know from your numerous posts that you wake around four in the morning, listen to the CD one or twice, lay on your back etc...But I would like more description in the "phasing" of your attention.

I have started to work towards this, what often arises is my mind questionning if I'm doing it right, and gets me in a "mind-trap" always on the look out to analyse if its working or not.

I am at present trying to get my attention in my "inner-self" (hard to use the correct wordings) and feel as if I'm inside this physical body, and keep my attention on this "inner-self". Problem is when my mind starts to question in "where" I should be aware. You know...inside my head, behind eyelids, a little over my head...all these type of questions.

Thanks for your time!

I would like to burn  CDs with the different settings for the BWGNE.
Has anyone been able to do this? If yes how?

Hello Frank,

Thank you Frank for your reply.

Once you have acquired the desired state with Gateway (Focus 10) how does it goes from there ?

Since you have gotten away from the exercices (ping pong etc...)what exactly do you do from there (Focus 10)? How does it evolves to the exit?

Is it just placing your awareness in the crow area for exemple, just looking at the brow to get the 3D blackness

I know that the essentials for OBE starts with relaxation and then to the body-asleep/mind-awake state. What happens from there ? Is it just staying in that state and the rest will evolve by itself to the vibrations and then the exit ?