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Thank you, Hannah.

I just ran across this article and thought it might be of interest to some of you wondering about the nature of conciousness and other viewpoints. Here's a snippet:

No longer the sole purview of philosophers and mystics, consciousness is now attracting the attention of scientists from across a variety of different fields, each, it seems, with their own theories about what consciousness is and how it arises from the brain.

In many religions, consciousness is closely tied to the ancient notion of the soul, the idea that in each of us, there exists an immaterial essence that survives death and perhaps even predates birth. It was believed that the soul was what allowed us to think and feel, remember and reason.

Our personality, our individuality and our humanity were all believed to originate from the soul.

Nowadays, these things are generally attributed to physical processes in the brain, but exactly how chemical and electrical signals between trillions of brain cells called neurons are transformed into thoughts, emotions and a sense of self is still unknown.

The rest of the article can be found at: http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050808_human_consciousness.html

Anyway, let me echo the good luck sentiment to anyone who comes by this spot on the information crossroad of this forum ... And keep following that rabbit!

Thanks for your reply, Sarah.

Yes, there are many areas in life with cons and lies ... like car lots, the Internet, and singles bars. But there are places where cons and misinformation proliferate better, in the same way that bacteria proliferate better under certain conditions. Skepticism and critical thinking skills are a life skill because of this.

Although scientists can be skewed in their views, the scientific method is best means we have for ascertaining whether something is true or not. The scientific method can be applied to OBEs, but not easily, especially considering the chaotic nature of OBEs -- it comes to the decision of whether or not everything you experience is real. If it is real, how much of it is relevent? And what makes something relevent? From my point of view, it's relevent if it impacts my life in a real way.

Sleep paralysis is something I have experienced, recently, frequently, and for long durations. It is physiological, as it always occurs under the same situations -- waking from REM and laying on my back.

You're right about having your cake and eating it too. That's not really my point (that it's one or the other), though I can see it might seem that way. My point is that the "mundane" world can be explored and experienced with an equal sense of thrill and wonderment -- and in this case, I feel it is more relevent to my life (since it is my "mundane" life I spend the majority of remembered, concious awareness in).

I guess I should have said, "I tried being the intrepid adventurer in real life and I highly recommend it." (Maybe I didn't say that because whatever I say about it, I feel it does the truth terrible injustice in its deporably understated articulation.  ) In conjunction with that, I feel a better sense of my critical thinking and skepticism add a great deal to this experience. Just exploring my inner psychological realities has been overwhelming and exciting, but add the outside world and its infinite facets ... it helps to have a refined lense through which to get the best possible scope with which to experience and observe.

Maybe I'm also trying to say, be careful what you cloud your lense with.

I thought I'd make a follow-up post. 

Looking back, here are a few things I've learned about the metaphysical, the mystical, and life in general.

The mystical arena is rife with fraud, cons, and delusion. Deception is so prevalent that it deters researchers from taking a serious interest in the topic.  Everywhere there are people trying to make a buck off nothing more than social engineering and twisting facts: swindlers trying to garner enough attention to sell books, seminars, etc. (case in point: Allison DuBois per the recent article "Police Psychics - Seeking Kids - and Headlines" in Time's Exploring The Unexplained).

The only areas of the paranormal that hold any credence seem to be so elusive as to be forever unsolved (case in point: Congress commissioned a study to review Stargate which found the program a dubious investment -- however, the hit rates in lab experiments had been statistically impossible by chance, and the report's statistician said "using the standards applied to any other area of science, the case for psychic functioning has been scientifically proven.")

Mystical musing often references quantum physics and all sorts of pseudoscience (see the article "Quantum Mysticism" at http://www.answers.com/topic/quantum-mysticism). "Magical thinking" is also popular, "a kind of non-scientific causal reasoning" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking). It's easy to become delusional in the gas cloud that is modern mysticism -- especially if you denounce reason and skepticism in favor of belief.

When it comes specifically to OBEs, I am increasingly convinced this phenomenon is owed to the brain state psychologists call "sleep paralysis", or the hypnogogic state (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis). This state is capable of creating very vivid -- but false -- memories. Most accounts of OBEs support whatever beliefs the person experiencing the OBE eschews. Everything experienced in an OBE is created entirely inside the person's ahead, and doesn't actually ever occur "out of body". In short, it is an excellent state in which to experience one's own imagination.

As far as experiencing OBEs, it's luck or mastery of falling asleep (or doing the opposite of the tips on how to cope with sleep paralysis at http://www.wikihow.com/Cope-With-Sleep-Paralysis ).

On the other hand, I've discovered there's a lot to explore in everyday reality: things I didn't know about myself, internal psychological realities that seem endless; there are different realities to encounter just by getting out into the world, traveling, meeting people, and experiencing other cultures. The "mundane" world is as vivid and deep as I am willing to be aware of.

This is my last post.

I had a lot of good times (in forum dimensions) here. Lots of good people. But I have to learn to live in the real world now. The idea of magic is dangerous. Fantasy and emotion can get away, and delusion destroys.

I'm growing up.

So at 3 obe's per week, five years comes to 780 obe's.

Just how does one have 3 OBE's per week?

It's not that I think it's impossible, I just don't understand how 3 OBEs per week is natural for one person, and to another 3 a year is a godsend. There has to be a reason why.

So in good conscience I can't recommend any path alone without some guidance. Help from teachers is good. Big brothers are good. Friends are good. Just stay away from the fakes.

How do you propose we tell the difference? Demand proof?

Welcome to the forum!

The mornings give most people the best results. If you can sacrifice a little sleep time now and then to practice, I'd recommend trying "rhythm napping", or just any kind of practice after waking earlier than normal, getting up and becoming fully awake, and lying down again. I think that will be the most likely most productive time if you typically have a stressful day.

No matter what, if you desire to achieve this, it will find a way to happen.

My thought is, without a body to interpret the RTZ, our minds do the next best approximation. So things can looked warped, be missing, in the wrong place, etc. It doesn't explain things completely ... but how much of reality is the way it is because of our physical? Maybe the RTZ can't accurately even be translated to what we're used to. It would be an interesting experiment to focus intent or try an affirmation to see the RTZ as it actually is (if these is even possible ... who knows how much of reality is dependent on the observer ... )

Don't you see, it's not "negs" that are controlling you, YOU control you. Stop giving these things life, stop handing over control to something that cannot exsist without YOU giving it life. Stop, stop, stop. Take responsibilities for your own actions.

This is priceless advice - and in more than just in reference to negs.

Thanks, MisterJingo, that puts into clear words what I think, too.

OBEs are still neat if they're all just internal and imagination-generated, but they are something else altogether if they are part of a greater reality. I've had OBEs that suggest both possibilities.

I guess I don't like it when things are inconclusive - I like certainty, or at least high probability. This doesn't seem to always mix well with the nature of OBEs.

That is a shame you guys feel that way, you've sounded so sure when you talk of your experiences in the past. Do you feel that they weren't real now and just your imagination?

I had to think about this one. I went back and looked at my posts starting when I first joined two years ago. I have to say, I can't believe it's been that long. I also miss the crowd that used to be regulars.

I also found what I had dreamed about in more precise detail:

I was taking a nap. At the end of it I dreamed I was an American on a steamer. It was the late 19th century. I remember something happening [suddenly]. Then I remember falling into the ocean and drowning. It was dark and very cold. I remembered another odd detail about this dream occurrence: there were only two survivors. I woke up for a second before falling back to sleep, and told myself to remember doing a google search when I was awake.

As it turns out, in 1875 the steamer SS Pacific (carrying the equivalent of $5,000,000 in gold) was struck by another ship and sunk. There were 300 people on that ship, and only two survivors. It matches perfectly with what I dreamed, and searching a database of shipwrecks, it's the only steamer I could find from that era to have sunk and had only two survivors. Pretty eerie.

I don't think I was just imagining things when I think back on my experiences, but at the same time I'm not convinced they provide proof positive. I haven't been able to do a card test or anything like that. Just because something feels genuine to me doesn't mean it's authentic. When there's a lot of hope/emotion involved, I know I'm (at least) quite capable of completely conning myself over to the favored conclusion.

This is important to me. I want to know, not just believe.

Seeing the new unmarked police cars in our community pulling over speeders has greatly reduced my traffic infractions.

Knowing there are consequences for our actions certainly helps us behave better - but this is kind of artificial. We need someone to keep us from speeding with the consequence of a fine/ticket because we can't or won't see the consequence of endangering others by being irresponsible behind a ton of steel.

Maybe Hell is kind of the same way - an artificial, policing idea that serves as a pre-emptive caution for those incapable or unwilling to take responsibility for the longer term reality.

Religion has always struck me as being metaphorical and most people take the great wisdom of the ages and take it literally. If you can't understand it on one level, you go with the level of understanding you're ready for.

I wish I understood better what you posted about vibrational fields, jub jub. Sometimes I wonder about the Occult "veil" and earth's magnetic field, pole reversals, et al.

Suppose the greater awareness - or the ability to transfer the wider reality to our brains - is affected by the earth's magnetic field. It causes static in the transmission. Humanity's natural state is the waking life and the "dreaming" life - only instead of being remembered as hazy dreams, every night is an 7-hour OBE-equivalent.

What if OBEs are just a matter of getting wider-reality information downloaded into our brains, and doing so requires short trips, highly lucid, to have any chance of getting the memory downloaded into the physical because of the static (veil)? Without the veil in place, there's no static, and suddenly everyone is aware.

This is the only thing that has me anticipating 2012 - a real long-shot hoping that maybe it is something special, that maybe all this pole reversal talk and religious talk about the veil being parted has something authentic behind it.

I might be overly-optimistic, but I like the hope that humanity has something truly amazing in its future.

I've found that if I wake up in the morning and lay on my back, I'm much more likely to experience false awakenings or paralysis.

I've had my share of OBEs since I started a year and half ago. I've had OBEs "more real than real". I've had a dream of a past life that I was able to confirm the details of by looking up the historical facts - and several uncanny details at that. But I'm finding myself lately leaning more and more toward viewing OBEs and the sort as physiological phenomenon rather than truly supernatural.

I can't make claims for other peoples' experiences, one way or the other. This is about my own experiences. As amazing as some of them are, I still doubt everything.

Is there ever a point where you stop doubting and accept something as real? At what point does that come? Or is it healthy to remain doubtful of everything? You can't live by uncertainty, but at the same time, I don't like the idea of self-delusion. I'm gullible by nature.

Maybe skepticism and curiosity go well together. Maybe if I'd accepting OBEs as real the first time I experienced one, I would have lost interest a while ago. Sometimes, though, I can't help but to wonder if my inability to have belief in something doesn't hold me back from experiencing more.

According to Western religious dogma, there are two choices. If we could disprove the existence of "Hell" then I could see where the world religions wouldn't have a purpose anymore and therefore they would cease to exist. What would happen to humanity at that point?

Humanity doesn't behave just because of threat of eternal damnation. I certainly don't. I think religion has a greater tendency to destructive behavior than to positive. A lot of people give up personal responsibility - the devil made me do it, but it doesn't matter anyway, because Jesus will make up for it.

I'm personally offended by the idea of Christianity (and Superman), that mankind will never be good enough without divine intervention. It's co-dependency at it's worst. Everyone must pay for their own "sins" - I prefer to take responsibility for my own actions. It makes my life a whole lot more meaningful.

On the other hand, this isn't to say there aren't Christians I don't admire, or that I feel have a destructive or demeaning view on spirituality - I mean generally, the mindless faith saves no souls.

It's more than just one thing, it's like a lot of things in my life came together to crack my hard skeptic shell.

A few things that helped me along were martial arts, meditation/hypnosis, and then a random encounter with an article on astral projection at just the right time for me to be open enough to be curious.

The reason I stuck with it is, since you can do it yourself, it was possible to disprove. I tried all the techniques that I could find, really obsessed with it, and although I didn't believe it was real, it happened.

"We havent got a soul, we are a soul".

I like that.

"why do you guys need validation..."

I don't know. Insecurity? Why do we need social verification, why do children need approval from their parents and peers? I think it has to do with our social nature. Just like when one person sees something amazing, they turn to their friend and say, "Did you just see that?"

I doubt it's impossible to prove in the same way it's impossible to prove that I dreamed about being in Diablo 2 last night.

If the etheric is real, then yes, it seems there should be some sort of experiment to prove its existence. If any of it is real, you'd hope that there would be some way of proving it scientifically. Either science hasn't progressed enough, APing hasn't progressed enough, or it simply isn't real.

The thing that bothers me about the possibility of negs (particularly the occult definition of demons) most is that they aren't like bears or lions, predators that consume flesh, but psychological parasites and predators, all hell-bent on total destruction; things that feed off negativity, off abuse, off fear, off hate, off depression. That's scary.

On the other hand, I think about these negative emotions, and it occurs to me that most of them have a base in this earth system, and most can be reduced down to fear. Fear is ultimately broken down to fear of mortal death. Abuse is a chain of negativity. Hate, what is hate but a desire to destroy or conquer what one fears? Like Monroe would say, it's all based off the predator-prey system. That makes me think maybe all negs are produced or the results of humanity's "dark side" - but purely an effect of the earth system.

Without death, how many negative emotions can exist? If you can't kill or be killed, why fear and why hate?

Relax. Increased exposure to advertising is good for you. Take a sip of Coke and think about how it makes the world sing in harmony, and chill out. Life is about consuming. You need more things. Shopping makes you happy. Work meaningless jobs to spend money on leisure. Everybody wants to be a part of the machine. Don't worry. Just relax and entertain yourself. Everything will be taken care of for you.

Hbr 11:11, Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him ...

11:11, Maria Taylor. ... That's where her solo debut, the ambiguously named "11:11," comes into play: A warm, melancholy slice of ethereal pop music. ...
Hmmm... maybe this one from 1111spiritguardians.com:

Our earthly 1,111 Spirit Guardians, often called "Midwayers," have been assisting folks of all walks of life for many centuries ... Some folks also notice lights going out or on when they pass by, such as street lights. They may also hear the door bell ring, yet there is no one in sight. It's all due to our fun loving midway friends. They will use almost any electrically controlled device to get your attention.

Or from uri-geller.com:

If your attention has been drawn to clocks and watches at exactly 11:11 ...

Or from crystalinks.com:

It was all about ascension and the beginning of awareness of the 11:11 code. ...

I know what you mean, though - if you're referring to a strange coincidence where you spontaneously look at the time and see 11:11 and think what's the chance of that? Happened to me a lot. Made me think more about my "internal clock" than spirits, though ...

How can you do a "ethereal projection" then?

Supposedly the ethereal is the plane closest to the physical (arguably the same as a RTZ projection). Ghosts are on the ethereal plane, as the lore goes, so apparently it's possible to be visible in the physical.

It's also been suggested that weres, shape-shifting, etc. is actually a function of an etheric body - for example, you project ethereally and shift your ethereal form into that of a wolf or bear. Since the ethereal can influence the physical plane, such creatures could also be dangerous.

It sounds cool. I have no experience whatsoever to convince me it's real, though.

I haven't had an Oblivion dream yet, but I think it's just a matter of time ...

Usually when I have dreams with guns, everyone I shoot never gets hurt or dies. It's frustrating. It's like when you're playing in grade school, and you keep telling your friend, "I shot you! Fall down!"

I've been shot and killed many times in dreams.

I think these dreams also have an educational feature about them. There's the psychological aspect that really only you can decipher, but I also think you can see your dream self developing through dreams.

For instance, people who try to run in dreams never can, or run very slowly. Some people developed a way to get past this - I jump like a kangaroo, other people I know, do handstands and run around on their hands. Some people fly.

You feel you need guns to protect yourself, and maybe your dreams are trying to show you that in the dreamworld you need to develop past this, find a new way of interacting with the dreamworld. I think that often nightmares are trying to get our attention, to teach us, or to make us become aware/lucid. Monsters keep coming so you can learn and expand.

Dreams are exciting and revealing. Keeping a dream journal is great, because you can look back on dreams, you remember more dreams. It's like you have another separate life (that's bizarre, but cool nonetheless).

If it feels real then it's real, what is reality anyway?

So, if I ever find myself stranded in a desert and see the mirage of an oasis on the horizon, it's okay to run down and go swimming in that sand, gulp down plenty of that "water"?

For starters, I would call reality immutable. If I have a bee sting, no matter how much I deny its existence, it's still gonna be there.

What does it all mean? Heck, I don't know but they didn't like the name of Jesus!

I've had that sort of experience. It seems to me that it works when you are absolutely positive that your intention will have the desired effect - for some people, they need to rely on someone else's power because they don't have enough faith in themselves. These sorts of events are more common in my dreams than OBEs or waking paralyzation. For fear situations, however, I'm more likely to make myself into a god to deal with the scaries. The most recent situation where I evoked Jesus was with a "Gaia" type that demanded to see just one unselfish, non-destructive human.

I believe meaning in dreams and OBEs are the same - it's all internal, all a product of the mind, psychology instead of psi.

In other words don't drink tea while thinking of the dishes you need to do afterward, the project that just fell on your desk, the test you just failed, or whatever else is flying through your thoughts. Simply be aware of where you are and what you are doing and enjoy/experience it for what it is. Anytime the mind wanders (which it will repeatedly), just bring it back when you realize what's happened. The process is deceptively simple but devilishly difficult.

Mindfulness like this is a good thing to practice. I wish I did it more. Another effect of doing this is that I usually enjoy what I'm doing a lot more when my attention is fully focused on it.

It's a powerful thing to be able to focus your attention.

And as to the theory that we create the world around us... well I've been experimenting and proving that in my life repeatedly.

Would you mind expounding on that? This sounds very interesting to me. I know that we create our own reality from a psychological standpoint, which also directly affects the people we attract to us, and a great deal more things down to employment, etc.