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I can compare this feeling to an experience I had while scuba diving.  We were about 80 feet down and the water was murky, when all of a sudden I didn't see anyone else around, including my diving buddy.  It was the most "alone" feeling I have ever had...just me in endless dark water.  Thankfully, just as panic hit me, I looked up and saw my diving buddy...grinning from ear to ear and waving at me.  Good thing I didn't have a harpoon or something with me....

Giselle

I totally agree.  I took the course many years ago because I thought I just didn't "get" meditation.  Personally, I think it's a rip off.  They do give you a mantra, which they make a big production out of having you think it's a special word just for you.  Several years later someone pointed me to a web site that showed the words are chosen according to your birthdate.  Sure 'nuf, there was my special word next to my year of birth.

Having said all that, what it did do is teach me what meditation is...that it's not some big mystery that I was missing the point on.

Basically, they have you sit in a chair and relax and then repeat the word they've given you over and over in your mind, rhythmically.  My mantra/word was Karim.  So I would sit and think "Ka-rim,"  "Ka-rim," "Ka-rim" over and over.  If thoughts enter your mind, they tell to to quietly bring them back to your mantra.  So, it's basically like most other methods of meditation....clearing your mind, and going deeper and deeper into the meditative state.  

The training at the time I took it was short...maybe a week or two, can't remember and expensive...$500.  In my opinion, not worth it, in retrospect.  At the time, I thought, "Oh, well, that was a lot of money just so I could find out I was meditating all along."  

They also incorporate some ritual into this training which was rather "silly,"  like an individual initiation at which they give you the "secret" word.

There are people who go on to take more courses and it seems to me to be somewhat of a cult and they have quite a few ways to get you to keep spending money.


Giselle

If you succeed, I'll be first in line to buy it!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck.  

Giselle

I don't think that feeling goes away....

Well, one thing's for sure...I'm still the oldest by far.  Seems to be the story of my life these days.  

G

Mindless had posted on another thread that a lot of the forum is made up of people under 18.  I'm curious what the demographics actually are, not that it makes any difference.  Then again, it would be interesting to speculate on whether age makes a difference in our attitudes about OBE's and our experiences.

I note that Andali has a thread "rounding up" the under 18 members, and there do seem to be quite a few.  

I thought it would be nice to get an idea of the overall age.

I'm probably one of the older members...almost 61.  (I find it hard to relate to that number when I look at it!)

Giselle

Eagle,

I know you won't see this until you get back, but you definitely have the right attitude and I can't wait to hear all about it.

As a side note, I have still not had an OBE of any kind.  My Gateway experience was quietly enjoyable.  It was one of the few times I was able to reach the black void, which I have not done but a couple of times since.   I had no personal experiences at Lifelines, BUT some of the things that happened around me with others were mind boggling.  And, you'd have to have been there to know without a doubt, as I do, that these people were NOT Bull***.  I will admit there were one or two people at each program that I more or less doubted, but that's to be expected anywhere.  

I fully intend to go to Monroe again.  

On the subject of relaxation, I think it is important to be able to clear your mind, not necessarily relax.  I feel that one of my biggest obstacles keeping me from having any type of meaningful experience is that I have extreme difficulty in quieting my mind.  During my Gateway program, where I feel I made more progress than at any time since, my personal life was in a more tranquil state and I was able to keep outside thoughts away much easier.  I'm a worrier by nature and when I settle down, I seem to rehash everything that is going on at the moment.  I'm either so focused on keeping the thoughts away or I finally give up and fall asleep.

So, if anyone has any suggestion on how to quiet the mind, I'd love to hear them.  I've tried most of the things I've read...counting breaths, just noticing, etc.  but before long I realize that I'm right in the middle of working through a problem of some sort and don't even realize I've been doing it.

Giselle

And the point is what??

I just wanted to clarify something.  The CHECK unit is designed so you actually don't NEED to use the headphones.  There is a speaker on each side and you can just listen to the speakers without the headphones.

I had a problem falling asleep while at Monroe and they suggested that I sit up.  I did sit up sometimes, but I still preferred the headphones.

The one thing you definitely don't need to worry about at Monroe is anyone telling you that you need to do something in a specific way.  These experiences are extremely personal and there's no right and wrong way to get there.

Now, if I could only make some progress......

I know you'll love your Monroe experience.

Giselle

Eagle,

I think I've picked up some points in your post that apply to me.  I think I am sabotaging myself lately by thinking negatively instead of "setting a real intention."  I'm going to try to lighten up a little about it all also.

I hope you do get to go to Gateway.  I went through the Gateway program three years ago and then last year I did the Lifelines program at Monroe.  You will enjoy Gateway, especially with your mindset.  This was all new to me when I went.  I actually decided to try to have an OBE to disprove some religious indoctrination from my youth and one day decided to Google OBE's which brought me to the Monroe site.  I signed up that day.

I got further in this process at Gateway than I have since and have almost decided to go take Gateway again.  The Lifelines program was a little too "advanced" for the progress I had made, but hearing the incredible experiences others were having was well worth being there even though I didn't get much further with it all.  

I hope it works out for you to go next month.  Can't wait to hear all about it.

Giselle

I enjoyed reading your post.  I'd be happy to have ANY type of experience!!!  But, I'm not giving up.

This is interesting and I think what you bring up may be just the thing to get out of the rut I'm in.  For me the visual is easiest and natural, followed by sound.  I have the hardest time with touch and smell, which makes me wonder if I focused on these two, would I become more engrossed in the rundown.  I think by using the two that come easy to me, I may not be fully engaged in the process, which is also the reason I wind up falling asleep.

Great topic, Shinobi.

Rooj, could you give me a link or refresh my memory about the arm trick for staying awake?

Giselle

Sorry...I also meant to comment on your question.  Didn't mean to get off topic.

I've found that if I'm thinking about trying to quiet a body part, it does just the opposite.  That's most true for my eyes and mouth.  I've been able to conquer that by focusing on relaxing into the bed...feeling the support of the bed under me and more or less just falling weightlessly into it and then bringing my attention to a mental area above the eyes which causes you to see with your mind rather than your physical eyes.  

That's probably why I fall asleep...maybe I'm way too relaxed.


Giselle

I'd like to know HOW you keep that thread of awareness.  

I've been at this for almost 3 years now and I still have the same problem...I fall asleep before anything happens.  I've tried just about all the suggestions I've gotten and just can't get past this.  I have always fallen asleep very easily when I get still, even sitting; i.e., at church, at the movies, in the dental chair....

Is there anything you can think of that you consciously do to stay aware?  When I try a repetitive mental rundown, I fall alseep way too quickly.

Giselle

I may not quite understand everything you've said, but if I had to give you a "yes" or "no" answer, I'd say "no."  But then my brain way be wired differently.  I am not a "visual" person.  (Which, I assume, is why I have a lot of difficulty doing the rundown that Frank talks about.)  I think in words, but not by visualizing the witten word.

I have a question.  When learning a new language, we first learn to speak it, then to write it.  So when an English speaking person learns to speak Japanese, our material is printed in the English alphabet, i.e., we write their words with our alpahbet as it would best fit the pronunciation.  When a Japanese person learns English, is the material they learn from printed in Japanese "script" or in the English alphabet.  Or do they do the same thing and write our words in Japanese symbols to learn to speak the language.  Your example of "hell" and "hair" made me curious.

Anyway to get back to the shorthand thing...  I've used shorthand in my business life for about 40 years and I've never "thought" in shorthand.  But that's me.

Giselle

I would say that, yes.  And I do speak both German and English, so I know what you mean.

Giselle

Another thought about using shorthand....

When you write something out in longhand or type it, you're able to scan the page and pick up main thoughts.  That is not possible with shorthand...at least not with Gregg shorthand.   Certain symbols and short forms are alike and it depends on the content as to what the word is, so you actually have to start "translating" at some point to see what it says.  It can't be done by glancing at it.

The only way I can see that shorthand might be of benefit here, if you're so inclined, is to write your thoughts immediately in shorthand and then transcribe them shortly thereafter.

I've thought about the reason why I feel it's awkward to put your own thoughts down in shorthand.  Gregg is based on phonetics and you actually "record" it by sound, so when you're thinking you find yourself distracted by also sounding the words out in your mind, even though it's done so quickly you probably don't notice that you're doing it.  And this is probably the reason you can sit and take several pages of shorthand and not have a full understanding of what you've written until you read it back.  The sounds go almost immediately from your ear to your hand if you're proficient at taking it.

Giselle

Telos,
Thanks for the link.  There were some other links on that page and one was an MSN Gregg Shorthand Group.  Just as I thought...there are a LOT of closet shorthand users out there.  

G

I don't think shorthand would have been a good option for this type of thing anyway, even if you could find someone to teach you.  I take Gregg shorthand.   I've used it for years and the one thing everyone who takes shorthand knows is to transcribe it before your notes get too cold.  Not that you can't "read" it later, but the longer you wait the harder it gets.  Also, I've found that it's automatic to write it when you hear someone talking, but it's awkward for some reason to use it for your own thoughts.  

It's really too bad it's not taught anymore.  It's still very useful even today.

Giselle

Thanks, Steve.  This really sounds like something that will work for me.

Giselle

Can you post the link where I can read about the "squishy ball" method?

I've come to realize that my main obstacle is in not being able to "shut down."  I think my problem is that I live in a very active household and I maintain an awareness of what's going on around me.  The only time I seem to get time alone is at night and then when I do manage to quiet my brain, I fall asleep.  I'm going to have to find a quiet spot to myself somehow.

Giselle

...OK...I'm tossing out the chicken manure..

OK...I know what you're talking about then...I've experience that also.  It's that disoriented feeling that kind of reminds me of the commercial a few years ago for some allergy medicine.  This little guy was walking around with his head disconnected and floating above him and they asked..."are you suffering from disconnected head" because of allergies...take so and so.

I sometimes think it's because I've been fooling around with my "normal sleep habits."  (If there is such a thing.)

Giselle

Thanks for the replies.  I downloaded a trial version of the new program a few days ago and have been trying it out.  It comes with quite a few presets.  You can try it for 14 days, I think, and then have to register.  So far I've liked what I see, but I wanted to get some feedback from anyone who knows something about it.  


I'm curious, Nanook, how did it mess you up...if you don't mind my asking?

My interest in it lies not only in the relaxation/meditation aspect, but in the mind programming aspect.  I see where it's been used for things like quitting smoking, nailbiting, pre-testing jitters, self-esteem boosting...all through playing taped suggestions while the mind is in the Theta stage.

Giselle

Has anyone had any experience with using this program?  What do you think of it?

http://www.transparentcorp.com/products/np/


Giselle