Messages

Thank you for clarifying Jeehad.
I actually do believe the Earth is where it is by design. The Universe is too intelligent for things to happen by coincidence.

Bewarevileye,
It doesn't matter how many times I see religious justification or interpretation of the word "fear" there is one basic fact that remains:
Fear is the opposite of love.

If God whatever God is chosen by a religion, ever speaks, even just once, about "fearing Him" then that is not a God worthy of following or believing in, because no matter how anyone may try to dress it up, you cannot ever love something or someone you fear - these two core emotions are polar opposites.

exactly - what seems strange that only in biblical times there was this boombing very audible voice, but now its only innerself or in your head type of thing 

i have an idea. lets combine the bible and the quran (since the basically tell the same story(ies) but differant characters at certian places) in to one book - then we can safe on paper, copy and paste - also allot less contradictions and My Book is right yours is wrong... 

hmmm long paste

The religious right claims that the bulk of South Africans are God-fearing, devout believers, with 85% belonging to some kind of organised religion. If this is true, what are we to make of our world-beating statistics for child abuse, domestic violence, rape and murder? If indeed the pious moral majority of whatever stripe takes themselves off to church/synagogue/mosque/temple on a regular basis, then who is committing all these heinous acts? The data tells us it's not the women -- who make up less than 3% of the prison population -- and it would be stretching the bounds of credulity to believe that the unbelievers are wholly responsible.

Feminist scholars argue that the patriarchal nature of the world's major monotheistic religions, in fact, creates a breeding ground for intolerance, human rights abuses, and violence against women and children.

Men of religion only relatively recently got around to recognising women as fully human, with souls. The battle over ordination of women has been a long and bitter one. For a long time the Christian Church's justification was that this was because Jesus's apostles were all men. The argument, of course, has its roots in the notion of God as the Father, a vengeful, rule-bound patriarch who demands total obedience and dispenses harsh punishments.

St Augustine spelled it out for his brothers: "For woman is not the image of God, whereas the man alone is the image of God." The natural corollary of this belief is that men are God-like and women are not. "If God was male and woman was not male then whatever God was, woman was not," writes historian Rosalind Miles. Add to this the legend of the fall from the Garden of Eden, and Eve and all her daughters were set up for millennia of scapegoatism, becoming "the greatest race of underdogs the world has ever known".

This phallocentric view was necessary for the monotheistic religions to take root and survive, particularly as they had only recently overthrown the pantheistic Goddess/Great Mother religions, and needed to masculinise God entirely in an attempt to erase the last vestiges of female power. The Qur'an makes its contempt for these Goddess worshippers quite clear: "The pagans pray to females: they pray to a rebellious Satan."

(It is particularly fascinating that, while all these religions acknowledge God as unknowable and unfathomable to the paltry human under- standing, the one aspect they are all clear on is that "He" is one of them.)

The patriarchal religions had essentially turned God into a male idol and then spent a lot of time vilifying* women to justify this position. "I never let women teach men or lord it over them," St Paul told Timothy. "God made Adam first and afterwards he made Eve. And it was not Adam who was fooled by Satan but Eve and sin was the result." The Qur'an is quite explicit about male superiority: "Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them."

And lest they be tempted to forget their pre-eminence in the scheme of the universe, orthodox Jewish men make the daily prayer: "Blessed art Thou, O Lord our God, King of the universe, that Thou hast not made me a woman."

While the Catholic Church, with its veneration of the Virgin Mary as mother of God, allowed the religion to retain some of the female face of divinity, the rise of Protestantism, which destroyed the convents and knocked Mary off her pedestal, entrenched patriarchy even further. The Reformation under that old charmer Luther must have been a rather terrifying place for women, with the great man expounding: "Let them bear children till they die of it. That is what they are for."

The Qur'an also gave men total control over women: "If any of your women commit fornication, call in four witnesses from among yourselves against them; if they testify to their guilt confine them to their houses till death overtakes them or till Allah finds another way for them."

The notion of the vile female body, as the seat of corruption and pollution is evident in the words of the Buddha, who claimed "the body of a woman is filthy and not a vessel for the law". (This is no doubt the reason why the Buddha, like Jesus and -- oddly enough -- Genghis Kahn, claimed to have been born of virgins.) The links between patriarchal religions and misogyny were inescapable and resulted in what Andrea Dworkin called "gynocide". Women were seen as mad, bad creatures that needed to be restrained and contained: from female genital mutilation and chastity belts to the ducking stool, from purdah to the scold's bridle, from honour killings to modern-day family killings.

Dr Sarojini Nadar, a senior lecturer in gender and religion at the University of KwaZulu-Natal, points out that while most religions pay lip service to ending violence against women, in reality women are pressured to submit to their husbands as the head of the family, to reconcile, to try again, and to try harder. She recounts a conversation with a Pentecostal minister whose church forbids women to divorce even unfaithful husbands, despite the dangers of Aids. "He told me with an absolutely straight face that 'if you don't feed your dog properly, it will go and rummage in your neighbour's rubbish bin'."

Women are often encouraged to put up with abuse and suffering, as a Christian virtue, as Jesus did. Nadar points out that this is not unique to Christianity but common to most religions, which emphasise the "womanly" virtues of submission, obedience and endurance.

But she argues that the patriarchal voice is not the final one, and there is a growing resistance to male domination within religious traditions, encouraged and supported by feminist academics who see this as part of the liberation theology project. Revolutionary feminists are those who have thrown out religion altogether citing all religion as irredeemably patriarchal. The reformists are those who struggle with the religion from within, and although advocating equality do not want to change the religion itself but "reinterpret the Scriptures and the traditions." They argue that it is not the religion itself, but the interpretation of the religion which is problematic. Reconstructionist feminists remain within the religion, but seek to transform the religion itself -- they acknowledge that the religion itself is patriarchal, and seek to transform the symbols, the metaphors and the practice of the religion in general.

Yet, Nadar says, most of the growing number of feminists who choose to remain within their religious traditions complain that change comes too slowly and they feel they are fighting a losing battle. Nadar cites research conducted by Professor Isabel Phiri in a church in Durban, where 84% of women married to leaders in a church claimed to have experienced violence at the hands of their husbands. When questioned about why they endured these abusive marriages, they said it was because they were taught by their religion that the man is the head of the home and that they should submit to his authority. "No matter how much people protest that this is a wrong interpretation of these teachings the fact is that this research shows the majority of these women interpreted these teachings in this way. While the work of feminists in trying to transform patriarchy within religions is praiseworthy, until they are taken seriously, crimes against women and children will continue unabated."

Challenging the church fathers
# While Islam does not generally allow women to be ordained or to lead prayers, certain progressive faith communities in South Africa are moving in this direction. Islamic scholar Na'eem Jinnah points out that at the Brixton mosque in Johannesburg and the Claremont mosque in Cape Town, women regularly deliver sermons. He says that while this is part of an international trend towards women attaining greater visibility,particularly in leadership positions, this is not a mainstream view.


# The Jewish Reform movement in the US issued a new High Holy Day prayerbook, which uses gender sensitive language. For example, phrases like "God of our fathers" are changed to "God of our ancestors". This was a response to women who felt excluded by the masculine liturgical vocabulary. Some branches now have women rabbis.


# The Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Baptist and Evangelical churches still forbid ordination of women, while the Anglican, Episcopalian and Lutheran churches are among those who allow it.

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=303929&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis/

my thoughts on sabbath:

psychologically. i would say that you MUST take off 1 day of rest, whether it has religions connections or not.

Religiously. if you do, you must also live out the other 6 days in the same manner - bit backward if you do the holy thing on a specific day and then next day or that after noon hit your wife a blue eye...

the same day thing is making it easier for religion to have a meeting obviously.

something i found when browsing around

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/notsun.htm

This article is intended for those who may think that Sunday is the seventh day, or sabbath day, that the Bible designates to be set aside for the worship of God. It is quite surprising how many people actually think this. They generally assume that since Saturday and Sunday are the "weekend", that Monday must be the first day of the week because it is their first work day of the week. This would then lead you to believe that Sunday is indeed the seventh day.

any opinions on it ?

i am now jedi master with the mouse scroll.....

Jeehad. you take special time off during the day for this ? hehe j/k

heres my one similiar

Christian Bible - nothing but the truth ?
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=67255

any opinion on this :

Cruelty and Violence in the New Testament
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html


Matthew 10: 34-36
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.

anyone read it ?

have some opinion about it (if you have read it of course)

you will be surprised to know that some urban ppl are like that too and worse...

i would say that religion is a mind virus, the enemy of people and
total restriction of society.

i my self don't conform to any religious system or their god(s).

and it has made to world's differance.

I was born right the first time !
I walk my own path by my own accord and not having it being ruled over by some book
or someone - having your own believe(s), your own opinion and living your life yourself.
...

You are an intelligent human being. Your life is valuable by its own. You are not 2nd-class in the universe, deriving meaning and purpose from some other mind. You are not inherently evil you are inherently human, possessing the positive rational potential to help make this a world of morality, peace and joy. Trust yourself

The Bible's Old Testament is chock full of it!

and apparently A-OK with Gang-rape too

Judges 19:

24Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

26Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

27And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

28And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an butt, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

29And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

set patterns incapable of adaptability only offer a better cage. thruth is outside of all patterns.

...or is it ?

anyways i get your drift MS but you need to learn respect onto others as well. its fine that you blabber on and on how loving bible/jesus/god/christians is but them in same breath trample islam.

i don't conform to any religion nor to any religious viewpoint of what a god or man should be - religion to me is a restriction of the human being;

a safety net, safety blanket, 'let god do everything for me', 'i don't take responsibility for myself', 'lets dump our problems on a deity'. 'lets not ask questions' or blindly follow some book - how can a GOD be scribed down into a single book ?

all religions was made by man for man - which really can't be proven or unproven, but hec who really cares ?


nevertheless as you stated in the very beginning of this topic which you two seemed to forget very quickly:

Beware that you do not tear down something you do not understand and hurt people who have done you no harm my friend.

You yourself consider, what you "know" to be "the truth" but it is infact only your opinion and research.

and so on...

besides. imho you are here to walk your path by your own and not by someone, something or a book.

[Mustardseed]

Mustardseed:

thanx for you posts you have change my way of which i deal with people where things such as religion is at hand. i have seen my error - and i know that i was wrong the times i pressed my 'truth' onto each them 'blind' people.

i must applaud you

even if i don't share the same believes you seem to have more levels than me in live in certian areas

peace and love
RJT

any one seen this :
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those of you curious about what happens when you unleash
religion at young children - go watch this awesome and fairly frightening
documentary, which was nominated for an Academy Award.

"I can go into a playground of kids that don't know anything about Christianity,
lead them to the Lord in a matter of, just no time at all, and just moments later
they can be seeing visions and hearing the voice of God, because they're so open.
They are so usable in Christianity."
IMDB link: http://imdb.com/title/tt0486358/
Watch it online:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8877708936425212842&q=jesus+camp+duration%3Along

religion is a man made thing to drive the masses and be milked as a cash caw 


~our worst enemy is religion it self.

Those are not predictions.

I can say, right now, "Their will be much war and chaos.", am I predicting the future?

theres always been much war and chaos and always been about naked woman, men with makeup and religious figthing...
so what if the world end, what difference is it really going to make if you know when, where and if ?
or you only then or now going to really start living ?

or does this make you feel 'queasy' just because it stirs up some feelings related to 'your sense of survival' ?
any event in our 'past' can easily be interpreted as THE END OF THE WORLD.


~our worst enemy is religion it self.

the term "the hour" doesn't necessarily mean 1 hour, an hour to beings in the higher realms may be like 50 thousand years.  So the hour can be a long period anyways here is some interesting proof that the hour may be upon us.

Either Mohamed is like Nostradamus or he is receiving news from the higher realms.
the hour will not be established until the following signs.

it's happening competition for taller buildings(that building in Dubai that has a tip that moves up and down daily so no one will know how tall it is which will be constructed), a man passing by a grave and says "would that I wish I were in his place".   So that statement must mean that the one passing by the grave knew that the buried was a man so he must of read it or assumed it.
I don't think that's me who said that but i said something similar.because I have been suicidal since 2002 but couldn't really go through with suicide because punishment for it is torturing myself with the same thing i killed myself with in hell.  I remember looking at graves and saying their lucky to have gone through it and gotten done and over with, but me I still have a ways to go.

Men who resemble women (drag queens will become frequent).  Women who wear almost nothing, (the beach? women)
Two groups of people will fight each other with great casualties on both sides, and they will be of the same religion (Germany and U.S.?)

the gog and magog people i think exist because they are desribed as having a sheild like face. And Asia is full of mountains that sounds to me like asians. (no offense intended)
and the list goes on.

YIPPE WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE - again each december end of year fun

Well, the bible are totally corrupt and probably written by Satan himself, so you can't trust anything in it. There might be some truth in the new testament tho. I don't think God and the angels would judge or destroy anyone, that's what we do.

http://www.phoenixarchives.com/Journals/Published/009.pdf

I found this, very interesting indeed

that book is clairy contradicting itself and hehe christian based

page 22 'witches arn't satanists' - says that so called tools on page 10 'And you who have denied the supernatural presence of satan or God for that matter-- what of you? have you perhaps replaced that supernatural belief..." (bottom part) are evil and from satan but on this page (page 10) its just tools and can be iether used for good or evil not just evil from evil 0_o

story seems flaw at most and more,
apart from having God having to conquering death 2x. death/resurrection of christ and then again on judgementday.

God == allpowerfull, He doesn't need a army nor a side and could at any given time just think satan away,

but then again this is another human's interpretation of divinity.

anyways 'war in heaven' still interisting study at most.

ty, CFT - reading it now 

interisting....

interisting

unfortaintly most christians go and label everything as devil, satanic and evil
that they don't undestand or are differant from their beliefs.

its very easy to do that rather to find out truth for oneself.

if you want to know go and find out the truth for yourself - don't base your life just on
others opinions - ask why and examin everything

interisting read well on this page hehe

http://mythandmagick.bravehost.com/TarzanAndJesus.html