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We are about to experience a major paradigm shift based on a natural law which has yet to be fully understood but whose existence is demonstrable.

In the ongoing debate between "Intelligent Design" proponents and those who espouse the "scientific" evolutionary point of view, something is becoming increasingly obvious.

In this question of man's origins, the stakes are much higher than they are for other sciences because the answer to that particular question will also answer questions about our destiny.  It is forcing us to consider what the source of the answers to our carefully controlled questions really is.

The field of man's origins has become the battleground on which materialism is fighting spirituality for the right to be the basic tenet of human existence.  

Science, with its proven effectiveness as a methodology that harnesses the forces of nature to improve man's condition, has replaced the formerly prevailing religious world view.

This has led to an ideological pendulum swing to the side of "facts" to such an extent that any idea is held in contempt if it challenges the belief - the world view - that an external, material universe will dictate to us what is and what is not true.

The argument against the "Intelligent Design theory" is that ID has no basis in science at all and is simply a throwback to the olden days of witch burnings and government by divine right.

Intelligent Design would appear to be losing the battle except for the fact that huge and growing numbers of people are backing it, including powerful politicians and scientists in top positions.

This is partly because of advances and discoveries in branches of science unrelated to evolution.

These other branches of science have demonstrated that when our observations are taken to another plane and the peripheral noise that surrounds everyday life is eliminated as a factor, it becomes obvious that we are connected to the universe around us in ways and at a depth previously unsuspected.

Science, simply stated is based on the process of first formulating a theory.  If a natural law can then be demonstrated to confirm that theory through experiment, the theory is accepted as scientific fact.

Outer reality can be demonstrated to be a reflection of an inner state.

This confirms ID because it eliminates accident as the determining factor in external events. This natural law does in fact exist and can be replicated by all men of good will.  It only requires focused will, desire, and time, to overcome the peripheral noise.

A paradigm shift occurs when conditions have developed to permit it and the need is overwhelming in a critical mass of a population.

People of influence in any domain who are backing I.D. are doing so because they know from personal experience that outer reality is a reflection of an inner state. That is how they've reached the positions of influence they are in.

This is the natural law which will be the basis for the next major paradigm change.  The precursor to this paradigm change is the revolt currently taking place against a world view that would have man as an accident in a mindless machine.  Taken to its extreme, that is what the theory of evolution is perceived to be saying

The conditions permitting this change, mainly instant, mass, free communication brought about by computers, now exist in western society and it's a matter of only a little time before the shift manifests.

When a world view appears to be at the height of its powers and impregnable, that is when it is ripe for a fall, to be replaced by a more comprehensive science that will not lose any of its power but will satisfy a need that we were previously  unable to address.


Copyright © 2006 Paul Freynet

Somebody got the idea of setting up a web site at www.marryanamerican.ca which also got very popular after the us election.

We shall not forsake our American brothers and especially sisters. And as encouragement I might add that Vancouver not only has mild weather but is one of the most beautiful cities in the world.

Here's a fascinating look at how Egyptian mummification was a means of using the mummified corpse as an anchor for exploration of higher realms.

http://www.alchemylab.com/ka.htm

I thought it would be interesting to hear initiation stories so here's my contribution. Of course they always have very personal components but those parts can always be left out.
Anyway,this happened about 20 years ago.
I had a series of experiences which began with a vivid dream in which I was lying in a fetus position on the floor, deeply asleep. Around me were 2 men, politely dressed in suits and ties and 2 women in dresses. They were discussing how to go about waking me up. That was all there was to this dream.
A few nights later, I was suddenly wide awake from a deep sleep and a voice immediately started talking to me from my left side. I was on my back and my head seemed to be propped up though I never fall asleep in that position. When I tried to look toward the voice, I realized I was completely paralyzed.
I had never had waking paralysis before and aside from this series of events, have never had it since. The voice was male, deep, good humored and ironic, and seemed to be very familiar with me and my life. It was telling me about two conditions that had to be fulfilled (actually 3 but I'm leaving 1 out). I was very surprised and afraid but I had no choice, I listened.
The first condition was to stop associating with a friend of mine at the time who was a Jesuit priest. The second was to change the orientation and room of my bed. The experience stopped as suddenly as it had begun. I dropped instantly back into a deep sleep after the voice stopped talking, yet the memory of the experience was crystal clear the next day.
A week or so later, the only directive I had followed was to change my bed's placement. I was suddenly awakened again, this time from the middle of a dream that had nothing to do with these events. I was again on my back with my head propped up. I was paralyzed and felt a presence in the room behind me.
I could see the room in front of me. It looked the same except that everything had an internal glow. I became fearful and then started feeling a pull on the top of my head. It felt like it was being pulled into the shape of an elongated cone and as I became more afraid, the pulling got stronger and stronger.
My terror started growing by orders of magnitude at this point and quickly got way beyond any hope of control even tho I knew intellectually that this experience was related to my interests and probably very valuable. Nevertheless, I just kept thinking: "no...I'm not ready".
Thinking back on the fear afterward, it seemed like an odd thing because of it's immensity and almost like it was outside of me at times, being much too big for me to contain. After stuggling against the paralysis for what seemed an eternity, I finally managed to move a finger of my right hand a little and the paralysis faded away.
Several nights later, I awoke again. I was on my stomach and I could see a glow in the room as if from a candle. This time I was not fully paralysed but it felt as if I was very heavily drugged. I had no feelings of fear this time. I started pushing with all my strength with both arms against the bed to try to get my torso up to see in the room.
I managed to get up a little and saw a candle burning on the bedside. Beside it was a beautiful young woman with white, shoulder length hair, wearing a white robe. She was kneeling beside the bed and watching me intently. I could feel another presence at the foot of the bed although I couldn't move enough to see what or who it was.
I kept struggling with every ounce of strength, trying to push myself up and at the same time battling for coherence in my thoughts which were very confused and as if stumbling over each other. Eventually I collapsed back onto the bed and dropped instantly back into a deep sleep, but again with a very clear memory of the event the next day.
This series of events seems to have an odd correspondence with the 4 alchemical elements.
The initial dream corresponds to Earth: the element in which we live our lives, fast asleep
The Voice, to the metallic Mercurial Water: the awakening consciousness for the communication.
The pulling part, to Air, where I presumably became a volatile body of Air in a tug of war with the physical.
And last, Fire, and the beauty that inspires so much striving and hope.
I deeply desire to meet these individuals again.

The reason it is easy to accept the idea of Loyola as a Luciferian is that no alchemist, no rosicrucian, no saint, reaches that level of spiritual enlightenment by being a goody two shoes.  He or she does it through a hard fought battle.

We exist in a world of amazing potential because we are in a state of the knowledge of polarity (the knowledge of good and evil). Only in the physical state as we know it now is it possible to fully experience that principle. This is what the "lucifer spirits" have brought about.

Since it is a principle, having black and white, up and down, yesterday and tomorrow,  also means having life and death, good and evil.  Birth and death would have little significance if we remembered how we were before we were born and knew how we will be after we die. It would all just be one continuum. The contrast is what permits us the degree of conscious awareness that we have.

Being a Luciferian essentially means accepting this polarity, honoring it, harnessing it.

This is the means by which it is possible for the art of alchemy to exist. That, in fact, is the reason that alchemy has been the force it has been in western civilizations. The darkness is greatest in the west because of western civilization's material success. Nowhere in the world do people have their feet as firmly set on the ground as they do here. A deeper black brings a brighter white.

This is done today as it always has been using the language of the birds not only described but fluently spoken by Fulcanelli and many others whose writings are available everywhere.

Secret societies, so called, operate on the same principle.  The techniques used make use of these conditions to bring about something that would otherwise be impossible.  Certainly initiates have and do wield immense power. That power is balanced. The black and the white are in a delicate dance of balance.

This is not something that exists because of anyone or any group's evil intentions.  Looking to the outside to put a finger on the cad responsible is a waste of time.  It exists as a necessary condition of our state, a state that must be overcome by each individually. One is not a member of the "ignorant and huddled masses" unless one believes and allows oneself to be.

I second the usual disclaimer. But some dreams have more elements of a universal nature than others. Here's a basic attempt at a rewording of your dream for the sake of whatever you like.

The friend is the part of you that is more than you know.  The inner you.  The outer you finds herself visiting in her house,  the dream. Your friend is getting ready for a holy day and she wants you around because without you there is no holy day. You feel uncomfortable because you aren't yet ready to admit this to yourself. The most convenient feeling is that you are intruding.

From what I understand, the same type of energy you used in this dream to do whatever it was you did sometimes causes you pain after you wake up, the migraines. I think the pain is a result of conflict.  

Maybe you're putting off something that will not be denied. You would need to expend a lot of energy to save yourself and your friend by becoming one with her...

Anyway it seems your friend is impressed with the attempt. After suggesting you should consider being initiated, she places the piece of jewellery on the blank book.  

You will have to write in the story of your new life in this book but in order to do that you first have to remove the guardian of the book, the serpent. There's just too much that could be said about this piece of jewellery. The gems, their colors etc. Let's move on.

An actor in our society is endowed with a considerable amount of prestige. Given the nature of his work, I think it's reasonable to suggest he represents your personality. But although he is in another room from the first or inner one, he is still in the house.

I think it would be worthwhile to examine what types of roles this actor plays.

In any case, according to Jung (I like to refer to him for dream interpretation because he did a great deal of work in the area), the Old Man, when endowed with special powers or prestige, represents the spirituality of the personality which emerges when consciousness is overburdened with clarified, apprehended and assimilated matter welling up from the unconscious.... taking on the grief of the world is an understatement.

You understand more of this dream than I do but maybe this different perspective will be helpful.

I thought it was funny too but it is rather disturbing isn't it. I suppose it might be a very advanced yoga assana but I wouldn't recommend anyone try it at home.

Unfortunately for the Catholic Encyclopedia, the evidence we have today of Christianity's usurpation of the symbolism of ancient Sun based religions is so overwhelming that I'm surprised there's even an argument about this.

The major holiday in Christianity is Christmas. The 25th of December is the day the Sun begins it's journey back towards the tropic of Cancer. It reaches the tropic of Capricorn on the 21st of December, the winter solstice, and remains relatively immobile until the 25th when it begins the journey North.  The Sun was therefore considered to be born on that day.

Much more interesting though, is Easter.  That holiday is always the first Sunday after the full moon that occurs after the 21st of March, the spring Equinox.

The Sun on the 21st is directly over the equator.  On the day of the full moon, the moon is directly opposite the sun on the other side of the Earth forming the horizontal arm of the cross.  The Earth's axis forms the vertical pillar.  Thus the sun is said to be crucified, ie: it is involved in the phenomenal world; because Easter is after this has occured, the sun has, at that time, been resurected out of hell.

All this symbolism has existed and been known since time immemorial.  

Edit: by the way, in no way do these facts weaken Christianity.  On the contrary, it is a major strength in my view.

The idea that Loyola was a Luciferian certainly is interesting.  

I think it's relevant that during the reign of Constantine in the mid 4th century, there was unrest and constant threat of all out war in the Roman empire between followers of Mithraism and Christianity.

After having a vision that merged the the sun with the cross, the emperor Constantine decided that Mithraism, by far the most popular religion, would be absorbed into Christianity.. Amongst many other compromises , though,  the day of worship for the new amalgamate became Sunday (the holy day for Mithraism which was, of course, a Sun worshipping religion) instead of Saturday (the Jewish Sabbath).

Catholicism has a suprising number of similarities to the Sun worship religion.

"Long before the advent of Jesus, Mithra was said to have been born of a virgin mother, in a cave, at the time of Christmas, and died on a cross at Easter. Baptism was practised, and the sign of the cross was made on the foreheads of all newly-baptised converts. Mithra was considered to be the saviour of the world, conferring on his followers an eternal life in Heaven, and, similar to the story of Jesus, he died to save all others, provided that they were his followers " http://members.aol.com/MercStG/ChriMithPage1.html

In the early 1600's the conflict of ideology between Rosicrucians and the Jesuits came to a head with the 30 years war in western Europe. The nature of this conflict is well documented and presented by the historian Frances Yates in the book "The Rosicrucian Enlightenment".

The army of Christ founded by Loyola saved from certain death an institution that had been ensconced for many centuries as the mediator between man and God in the west.  The light and life recognized is the external light and the external, ritualized, religious life. That's the nature of an exoteric religion and it was, I think, the basis of the natural conflict with the esoteric order.

I think that the role of the Lucifer spirits is similar to the myth of Prometheus who stole fire from the gods and gave it to humanity. These mythical bringers of light are responsible for our minds and free will and therefore the ability to interact with the world as we do.

Personally I think it's entirely plausible that Loyola and his Jesuits are in fact Luciferians. The interesting thing is that so are Rosicrucians.

kairi, a lucid dream is a dream in which you know you're dreaming. Depending on your level of consciousness, it can seem more real than reality and you have control to varying degrees over the environment.

I agree Ras, it's really tempting to let your sex fantasies run rampant. Sex doesn't make me wake up, and it seems as real as real and then some.

The other temptation is to fly around for the entire dream. Now you put those two things together and you have a pretty hard thing to resist. Flying while having sex.

This thing about looking at your hands. I don't understand where that comes from. Your dream body hands don't melt like the RTZ body hands do, or at least mine never have(unless of course I make them melt).  Looking at your hands was something Castaneda recommended and it never worked for me.(it works to stabilize a dream but, I think, not as well as spinning)

Someone somewhere here was saying that RB recommends looking at your hands to become lucid but Astral Dynamics has the usual reality checks as a means of lucidity. You verify that you're not dreaming whenever you do something like go to the toilet or whatever. Personally I find the best way is to review the last 15 minutes every once in a while. It's easy and fast and unnoticable to others. If there is no sequence to how you got to where you are, you know you're dreaming.

With that method, I usually become lucid suddenly, seems like spontaneously, because I figured it out instead of referencing something in the environment.

Nay that's really interesting about being in the whaler's body but not having control over it. Worth exploring for sure.

Oh and how do I see myself. The same but a lot more powerful. I gotta try experimenting with my body more after reading Nay's post. I think I'll check out being a woman. That should be interesting.  

hey Aura,

I think kiauma provided you with a very important clue by seeing what the RC means. Your reality checks are ineffective, they are too cursory and routine.

When you're doing the reality check during the day, you have to really mean it. You're verifying to make sure you're not dreaming, not just doing a check so you can tell yourself you did one. That's what the dream did, it confirmed the reality check is done, you can relax and dream on.

Thanks for the heads up aryanknight. The post may in fact not be appropriate for this thread. If that's the case, I hope one of the moderators will let me know and I'll delete it, or they are free to delete it themselves.

ok I'll bite

This is my beef with Budhism. I know it bears little resemblance to yoga except for being a spiritual path, but bear with me please.

When I was in my late teens, early 20's, I chose to study yoga because it offered everything I was looking for. I dove into it with all the enthusiasm of that age. I practiced the positions and concentration, visualization, meditation... and I was rewarded.

The changes came as promised and soon I began to have visions of beauty and profound depth. I began to understand to my amazment that I could expect a welcome from a system that could be of enormous help.

And that's when I realized to what extent it was all utterly foreign to me. Certainly I was being welcomed. And in the process I was accepting this as my spiritual path. I realized the enormous implications of this choice. I was accepting a path that has developed in a culture that is so completely a stranger to who I am that it's acceptance is equivalent to a denial of just that... who I am.

Budhism and yoga and etc etc have all been imported from cultures that certainly have very advanced systems for soul development and that's just it.  All systems have a mythology whether it's directly stated or implied. This serves as the ground that you stand on in your practice . You make this mythology real. In terms of your spirit, it defines where you come from, and the practice defines where you are going and how you'll get there. It could well be that in the end we are all going to the same place... maybe... but personally I suspect that the journey never ends so...

Anyway this is by no means an original beef. It's been stated and re-stated by western teachers many times.  But the reason I'm re-stating it again is because it has a great deal of meaning for me.

Many will say that the western mystery traditions all come from the east. The fact is that they have a development that is concurrent with their societies regardless of where they come from. They carry an evolution right into the present day and it's impossible to state the extent to which that symbiosis is important, It becomes manifest as you work in the discipline.

lol lola. I remember reading that somewhere here too.

Here's my offering.

An encounter with the Guardian of the Threshold marks the beginning of the journey in some traditional paths. For the ones following these paths, it's an experience that is sought out and prepared for with a lot of hard work.

No matter how much preparation you do though, the experience is extremely traumatic,  not because it inspires a terror of an unknown, but because it immobilises you in a horror of recognition. It lives in the deep of you and it's body is a large, black, symmetrical, emphatic demand.

The encounter, in someone who is prepared, begins a chain reaction that starts with an examination of this unspeakable horror. It leads to an ownership of the depths of your being, the part of you that will lead it's own life if you don't claim this ownership.  That's why the guardian is also called the doppelganger, the double..

It becomes the you that is outside of you in all your astral travels, reflecting back to you an illusion. Certainly there is a reality outside this bubble, but you only see parts of  it through a filter of distortion.

You don't have to worry about this if you just want to have astral experiences. If you meet a red eyed guy in a cloak as you pop out, tell him to p*ss off.

This thread is hilarious. I just wanted to wish Beavis and Upstream success and prosperity in their new business venture.

Well I think it's presumptuous to interpret another person's dream. So here's my interpretation.

It's obvious you're a pilgrim on a spiritual journey. You come to a place in your journey where there is a gathering of other pilgims, the inn. You ask directions which is the same as asking where you need to go. This inn is just a stage on your journey but you need the support and help of these other travelers.

You leave by the back door, you've decided you need to continue your journey alone and come to the crossroads which is also a tau cross and a dividing of the ways. This is always an important stage on a spiritual journey, the choice between the truth and illusion-self deception.

You meet a traveler coming from your right at this crossroads and speak with him. Previously you had to ask where you were going, now you're asking how to get there.

I noticed your other thread where it was suggested your experience may have been the dweller on the threshold. Traditionally, the dweller guards a dividing of the ways. This traveler is your dweller at the threshold because after you speak to him, you have a child companion.

The child is a symbol of a melding of the conscious and the unconscious according to Jung. This is a result of your conversation. you now have assumed responsibility for your soul. You have a future.

You have a river to cross, a major obstacle, could be the river styx. Rivers stand for fertility, irrigation of the soil and also the passage of time, a sense of loss, oblivion.

The fertility is reinforced by the trees and they are in a circle, symbol of completion. King Arthur is the mythical king of primordial mankind surrounded by his 12 knights of the round table, closely related to the holy grail.

His sword is no ordinary sword. Swords are replete with symbolism. Separation, the word of God, the end of physical and the beginning of the spiritual life, the warrior spirit. It also echos and advances the tau cross symbol. The tau is a symbol of mankind at a lower, animal level

You're sacrificing your lower life for your greater life.

Nice dream, I like it.

hey Sampson,

The experience you had is something familiar, I think, with a lot of people. If you examine the dreams you recorded the morning of the day you had it, I think you'll find one that is an odd, downgraded version of the same experience.

Personally anyway, I found that when I diligently recorded dreams, regardless of how silly or insignificant they seemed at the time, it will sometimes cause what seems to be a subconscious chain reaction. You're mulling it over unconsciously until at some point, eureka,your mind comes up with a more accurate version of the originating experience, possibly set off as you say, by a trigger.

In fact, if you're really good at remembering and recording dreams, you'll notice there are several versions of the same original experience dreamed sequentially, each one a more downgraded or metaphoric version of the previous one with the most recent one, just before waking, seemingly rediculous and almost completely unfathomable as far as meaning goes. I say most recent because that is how they are remembered.

In fact, what's happening, I think,  is that several levels of yourself are simultaneously dreaming these progressively downgraded versions of something that is happening at that "moment". It's as if the self is trying to hide and reveal at the same time. Though of course it's a matter of necessity. Something that is happening in a relatively timeless zone where there is no sensory input as understood by the physical self can't be understood or interpreted directly.

Yet still, it seems as though the dreaming, physical self is deliberately making a mockery of an experience that was originally suffused in light or possibly very important in terms of understanding your everyday life, while at least conserving a remnant of it. This in itself seems to, potentially, have a lot of meaning.

Hey michael,

Your question is an interesting one for me too because the distinction of bodies is something that bothers me.

I think the hierarchy of bodies is somewhat loose. They all seem to kind of blend in with each other to some extent.

In fact just defining any of the bodies is a heck of a problem in itself. After reading your question or rather musings, I went off on a search to see what I could scare up from my bookshelf of Rudolf Steiner's works and found "An Outline of Occult Science" and another on symbols (do books sprout legs or something, dang I had more than that).

In occult science he states "...One might also say that life belongs to the ether body, consciousness to the astral body, and memory to the ego." He's referring to conscious memory as opposed to subconscious. Later he goes on to say that in a way , the Ego is a part of the astral body and then says "If we desire an exact designation, we may call the human astral body the soul body:. The soul, in so far as it is united with this soul body, we may call the sentient soul."

So according to him, the astral body perceives what's happening but has no way of remembering it afterward. The ego has the ability to remember but you first have to develope an ability to remove your conscious self from sensory stimulus and make a connection with it. That connection is not automatic..

RB's idea of "downloading" memories from the astral to the physical seems logical except that it seems to me this forces a downgrading of the memories if it were only a function of the physical brain. I mean you would only remember events in metaphors because you're interpreting through a purely physical organ. There has to be a much higher principle involved if you want any accuracy.

I think that the better your connection with your "higher self" (which is not a once and for all set thing) or ego  the clearer and more accurate the memory of being obe will be. The really odd thing is that the higher self is also the guardian of the threshold according to Steiner and this makes beautiful sense but only with some thought. .

One of the most interesting observations that RB makes in "Astral Dynamics" I think, is the sparks of consciousness that rain down with the "astral pulse" and embed themselves in the etheric body, later to blossom as events in our lives.  I know the truth of this because I've observed it as a kind of astral rain. I'm sure this principle can be harnessed for the purpose of first, invoking the guardian, a very valuable entity, and then establishing a working relationship with him..

Hey Anarchyhollow,

I completely agree with you. I read the series many years ago for the sheer pleasure and adventure of it. Years later, out of curiosity I had another look at "A Yaqui way" and had to read the whole series again. This time I was floored by the virtuosity with metaphor and symbolism and the depth of his understanding.

This from a pop writer who reached a mass audience and was, of course, subsequently criticized for everything from his writing style to the fact that the locale could not possibly have been the Sonora desert as he said and for this and that and every other completely irrelevant thing.

If you haven't yet read the other books that follow, you're in for a good time. Have fun.

good one upstream

Hey Beavis,

I believe this issue is closely related to the "Guardian at the Threshold" or Doppelganger.

I'm aware of what RB says in the book of course but he's human. Actually he's probably thinking along the lines of "you've worked hard, you made it this far, go out and have fun, we'll deal with the guardian later". I would think he'll talk about it in the next book.

If the guardian is not recognized for what he really is and dealt with appropriately, he recedes and becomes the astral environment. Although some parts are reality, most are fantasy and there is no way to distinguish between the two.

If you're interested in more info, Rudolf Steiner's "An Outline of Occult Science" is a good source.

Edit: Having re-read the passage in "Astral Dynamics" I have to apologize for putting words in RB's mouth. His ideas on the subject are clear and he has a lot more experience than I do.

very funny...i'm glad my sound was muted, visual almost gave me a heart attack.

Hey Deiuo,

From the wording of your question, I gather you gave a cursory skim of a few parts of the book that was a sticky subject here called "The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception" by Max Heindel.

The problem is that this kind of book demands not just a careful reading but another and then another etc.. Rosicrucian writings are what I would call very treacherous. The reason for that is that for example, if you read alchemy texts, which are of the same "family", you know you don't understand, it looks like complete gibberish (in fact that word comes from the name of an Alchemist named Geber). Rosicrucian writings on the other hand, give you the impression that you do understand whereas in fact, you don't

There are many different organizations that call themselves Rosicrucian. Heindel's is one of many.

There are also many writings that are Rosicrucian that make no mention of being so. A good example of one is Goethe's "Treatise on Color".

The name "Rosicrucian" and some seed ideas for the "movement" may have originated with the manuscripts that were circulated in the early 1600's called the "Fama Fraternitatis" and the "Confessio". They made the name quite notorious and romantic.

If you're willing to put a lot of work into the subject, you'll get glimmers of realization that dawn in little bits over time.

The value and purpose of the book is not historical or "scientific", it's a key for personal knowledge. You could say it's a highly developed, very powerful mythology.