Messages

Hi Adrian, I've signed the guestbook with some input, but here's some more:

1) I'm on a 200 Mhz Pentium and I don't find the site slow nor crashing like the others, I'm running IE 5.5, but I do have an ADSL connection.

2) When can we start using avartars in our preferances area ? It shows as "none" right now.

3) That poll you put up needs to dissapear after you answer it, and/or you should at least have an option to not answer it and still have it go away. Better yet, you might want to simply keep it as an area in the forum, where one can volunterily go in there and view/answer the latest polls, rather than have it come up like a banner ad.

4) I noticed I couldn't go back into the guestbook and edit my reply, I guess this is because the guestbook doesn't look at whether I am a true guest or a registered member huh? I meant "chat room" not "chat forum" in my post there, just to clarify, since there is also a chat forum

5) The "Register" link under the login area at the top right hand corner gave me a broken link when I tried to use it.

6) The "Important Read it Now" section... If you will be posting anything really important there, you should either make it clickable so we can go directly to read the entire text or make that box bigger. Regardless of how important the message may be, I'm not going to sit around here reading it line by line as it sloooowly scrolls by

7) You should allow the registered members to upload files into the file area... of course these should first be viewed/approved by the forum moderators.  Given the number of people in this forum, I think we could come up with a nice little collection of files

How come the classifieds are divided into 2 sections - Computers and wanted.  I guess the real question is... why computers ? Shouldn't it be:
For sale and Wanted ? Or something like that ?

9) You are currently allowing registered members to post events, but this feature does not work. It says try again. I'm guessing the function of adding events is reserved as it should for site admins only ?

10) How come it shows ZERO active topics, when in fact there are several that appear active ?

11) Overall, I like the new features Adrian I was wondering, what software are you using for these new features? I might want to do something similar with another site.

Thanks,
antiloop

"He who pursues the path of even mindedness is neither jubilant with gain, nor depressed by loss." - Paramahansa Yogananda

[YOU ROCK!]

Greetings everyone,

Many great posts here, thank you all for your insights.

I just wanted to make a few comments.

1) I would have to disagree with what a couple of people said "there is no short cut to enlightenment". I base my disagreement on the fact that several credible spiritual paths claim there is indeed a short cut. Look up written works by Paramahansa Yogananda (Kriya Yoga), Mouni Sadhu (The Direct Path), Franz Bardon (Hermetics) and I'm sure many others I have yet to read.

In essence though, I think it comes down to you directing all your energy toward the development of your spirit and putting aside most of the illusionary worldly aspects of life. As another reader pointed out, these works are for most people a LIFE LONG practice - and in saying that, if that's only how long it takes you, it would be an immense shortcut! If you believe in re-incarnation, some of the teachers I have mentioned above claim it can take hundreds/thousands of re-incarnations before achieving "enlightenment". If you can do it in 1 life-time, YOU ROCK! *grin*

So in conclusion the shortcut is that of uninterrupted pure focus and dedication.

In today's world where "being really busy doing many, many different things in a day" is looked upon as being a "good thing", it is no wonder people are so unfocused, so confused, so tired and so unenlightened (in the general sense of the word).

"He who tries to catch two hares at the same time, catches none".
"He who chooses to be a jack of all trades, shall be the master of none!".

2) To Fenris:

Some advice from personal experience, you may take it or you may leave it

a) NEVER, EVER underestimate what you are capable of!
b) Never criticize anyone, and first put your own house in order.
c) Choose your teachers wisely, the world of adults is filled with many children.

Given your apparent level of intellect, the shield of age is no longer.

May you find what you look for,

antiloop

Hi all,

I just read through this long post. Lots of interesting points here.
I would however, also after having had several OBEs myself have to disagree with Roger in that it CAN be as simple as "take me to Bin Laden" and that OBE's are actually in my opinion full of self-delusion.

It IS possible to simply visualize Bin Laden's face while out in OBE and go directly to where he is. This process uses the same principles as Robert describes in his book - Point Shift technique. Although he uses it as an exit technique, once out, you can use it to travel from A to C without having to wander geographically through B.

Unfortunately, it seems this technique requires very acute concentration abilities and I have only succeeded a few times myself (and no it wasn't to see Bin Laden ).

The other part I'd like to comment on is that what Robert states as being reality fluctuations in the real time zone, I would suggest that it is more likely they are a factor of self-delusion - an inward factor, rather than an external one. If it were an external factor, a group of people OBE'ing to the same location would all perceive the same distortions and see the same things - but they don't (according to the various journals I've read of group OBEs). They each see occurrences in the language of their own personal symbolism - which yes, if they all interpret them correctly would paint the same picture - but still, the point here being they don't see the same things and thus the OBE experience I would suggest is highly subject to personal circumstances/thought/energy.

For those of you that have had several OBE's in the real time zone, surely you can confirm that every single time you exited and floated around your room, your room likely didn't look 100% exactly as it did in real life, nor did it look exactly like any other time you OBE'ed.
Maybe once or twice it did, but that was likely the exception rather than the common occurance - at least for beginners.

You might also agree that sometimes the degree of distortion from reality was more acute than other times and my question to you is why is this so ? If, as I suggest this is due to an internal factor of YOU. I would suggest this is perhaps dependant on the amount of energy you exit with + Your ability to not allow your subconscious to form the reality you see while in OBE. (in other words your level of pure concentration and focus).

My point here being that I think it is very easy to be AMAZED at the reality of OBE experiences, but what we have to be careful with is not to equate the experience in the RTZ with that of reality or falling into the trap of accepting our experiences as absolute truth; as these mix parts of reality with symbolism from our subconcious just like in dreams. And these should not be interpreted literally.

So while it is possible to go to Bin Laden directly, unless you had large amounts of energy and pure concentration abilities, chances are your experiences would not necessarily reflect that of the physical reality he is in and therein lie the gaps for science/skeptics to hack through.

From a scientific point of view, FACT is only recognized when multiple experiences are performed, repeated over and over again and the SAME results surface.  Trying to achieve this with OBE's I would suggest is most difficult since each time you exit the experience is rarely the same one - although there are those like nightflier who claim to have had much success in proving to themselves with card-by-the-window experiences or card-in-the-shoe-box experience that this is a reality.

It is only those people who have any chance at opening the eyes of science if they can perform time after time after time without failure. But to go from a card in a shoe box to finding Bin Laden with accuracy is a whole other ball game but certainly not an impossibility.

Cheers,
antiloop

Hi cainam_nazier,

You raise some interesting points To me judgement often implies the attempt to categorize something so that it fits in and belongs to either category "A" or category "Z". The problem with this is that such judgement is so often done in a fraction of a second without really doing any deeper research. In some of these cases a better word would be "assumption". To force something which is neither A nor Z but rather is a "G" for example, into the first two categories would be incorrect. Sure G is closer to A than to Z, but still, to say it is an "A" is to make a generalization and to stereotype. Herein lies yet another reason to not be judgmental because it can lead to your falling into the two aforementioned traps.

Regardless of all this, it is human nature to decide upon something based on their judgement and yes such judgement is almost always derived from personal ideals. So you are quite right about how we function, even if it is mostly a flawed process in terms of reaching any really accurate conclusions. Here's a popular quote reflecting this:

"You can't judge a book by its cover".

But I believe the original question was deeper than this. Erictwo was to my understanding refering to the extremes of judgement where severe harm is done yet people appear to remain non-judgemental and questioning why this is so.  I don't believe he was refering as to whether it is evil to judge someone as bad or idiotic based on some minor action they took - such as saying a book contains nothing of value because of its cover.

quote:
But our open mindedness comes in when we decide to give that person our opinion or not. Are we close minded and go and tell everyone what it is that we think they are doing wrong? Or are we open, and let that person do as they wish and not say anything?

I believe open mindedness is separate from the outward expression of personal opinion. Open mindedness to me means to accept other possibilities even when there appears to be direct evidence that all possibilities have already been accounted for - it is this which allows us to see beyond the obvious and to truly expand our horizons. So I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying here.

quote:
"It is important for us to judge, so that we can decide, so we can then learn."

If to judge is to categorize/stereotype as I've previously mentioned, and we base our decision on such judgement, then what we learn is really of little worth, now isn't it?

I would say it is important for us to arrive at a decision regarding a serious matter only after deep contemplation of the situation. To quickly judge it as black or white is of little value and should only be applied to matters of little importance.

If we observe human nature, quick judgement is only of mediocre use and fortunately we instinctively apply it to minor issues in life (like looking at how somebody is dressed and judging them as well dressed or not, which may decide for us if we want to go out and buy a similar pair of pants or not) - such decision making process is rarely used in serious life-threatening situations to which Erictwo was making reference. However; when we apply quick judgement to serious matters, that is when we potentially get into serious trouble.

Best wishes,
antiloop

Edited by - antiloop on 10 April 2002  20:56:16

Hi Erictwo,

My interpretation of being "non-judgmental" is quite simple. Who am I to judge others for the things they do, for whom they are or what they think and say?

Until such time as I honestly know that I am better than somebody else, that I know more, that I've experienced more - only then do I vouch for judgement, and in doing so, I don't mean to perform it in an accusing manner, but rather to dispel the clouds and fog and offer the truth I've personally experienced with constructive criticism (i.e "Be a coach not a critic") and offer this coaching only after the judged seeks my counsel, as opposed to volunteering it without their request - As Jesus put it "do not cast your pearls of wisdom before the swine". Or as another popular saying goes "When the student is ready, the master shall arrive". (and in my case I am light years from masterhood, but I think you get my meaning)

In regard to discerning good from evil. My take on this is that these are mere creations of the human psyche. The Universe cares not for good nor evil. Neither does the "Creator" who would have created everything (encompassing all ranges of Good and Evil), which would answer the question for those contemplating how can GOD be truly good if so many people die or are harmed without any apparent purpose or "sin" on their behalf. The answer is that before man there was no such concept as good nor evil. This is but a temporal concept, and concepts which do not transcend time are worthy of little contemplation.

But I'll go a little further, take a look at the animal kingdom  for it easily dispels this myth for us. An animal that kills another is no more evil than the killed, for it too had to kill in order to survive. Evil is humanity's attempt at separating the light from the darkness - we do this because we think that without darkness we would not know what light is. And although there is logical truth to this, the ultimate truth is that they are one and the same thing. To understand this, picture an infinite line representing a scale. Evil and Goodness exist on that same line, only at different ends of the same line depending on their severity.

As for being non-judgemental about "bad" aliens and abductions, perhaps what these "non-judgementalists" might be trying to say is something along the lines of "Love thy enemy". And what does this mean really ? Well, I came to some level of understanding of this great quote recently when I saw an interview of the Dalai Llama in which the interviewer asked the Llama "Who has been your greatest spiritual teacher?" to which the Llama replied "Mau" (the asian communist dictator which drove him and his people out of Tibet).

So you ask, how can such a man who condemns spirituality/religion be the Llama's greatest teacher? Perhaps because he truly taught him(although obviously unintentionally) the lesson of humility and that man can survive and be happy without any material possessions (the Llama's temple(s) and all his worldly material paraphernalia). And without this "Evil" person the Llama would never learn his lesson in such depth, and to this, he is most greatful!

Even the Llama does not judge his worst enemy for he understands that Evil and Good exist on the same plane, and that it is only human perception which erroneously attempts to seperate the concepts of Good from Evil.

Now to answer your question "Is Evil non-judgemental?". No, evil is the absence of good, or light. In the darkness evil lays in ignorance for it can not see. Evilness can only perform acts of ill-judgementalism. And now that you know this, a better question is, "Do I want to be evil and incorrectly judge others just because others judge me?". By being judgemental you are only digressing to their level and becoming like them - evil - for you too are now judgemental. And is this where you want to be? Doing evil onto others as others have done evil to you is only a path toward the degeneration of your being. "An eye for an eye only makes everyone blind" -Ghandi

My best wishes to you,
antiloop

PS. Sorry for the philosophy overdose, but I hope some people will get something out of this as I have in my research

Edited by - antiloop on 10 April 2002  08:43:41

[I would say this is a manifestation in the macro world through the micro world.]

Hi Tom, great joke. I'll have to remember that one, even if the raising of the arm is actually obtainable by other types of occult abilities as opposed to telekinesis, but funny none the less.

From the theory and little research I've done on this topic (and not from personal experience), it is apparent to me that the "forces/energy" acting upon an object by means of telekinesis can not be sole summarized by Newtonian physics. If this were so, there would be no mystery, for today we have a clear understanding of such physics.

I should however point out that (again based on texts I've read), from the various people who claim to have such abilities and attempt to offer insight in terms of instruction always state to start with small objects and to make attempts from pre-determined approximate distances. Not once have I read a text telling me to try lifting a car or a mountain from the other side of the world. With this in mind, Newtonian physics would obviously play some roll after all.

I would say this is a manifestation in the macro world through the micro world.

Let me attempt a theoretical explanation:

1) The act is manifested by means of non-visible sub-atomic influence directed by concentration (one-pointedness) of the mind.

2) The final affect can only be recognized when the force/strength of such concentration is able to influence millions/billions+ of sub-atomic particles, thus creating a visible manifestation.

3) The force required to lift an object is directly proportional to the strength of the concentration, the distance between the concentrator and the object, and the weight of the object.

The only unknown here as far as modern physics goes is that of how concentration can influence sub-atomic particles - To this I have no further insight, although perhaps the inter-relation between Quantum physics / string theories and consciousness may offer some level of explanation. But this is a bit over my head. Here's a great article on such theory:

http://www.thymos.com/tat/consc3.html

Wishes of enlightenment to all,
antiloop

PS. What I find really interesting about such theories (re: quantum physics article) is that what science attributes as a bleeding edge discovery has been known in the occult world for thousands and thousands of years...

And I paraphrase:

'The Universe is Mental in its nature, and Mental Transmutation is the art of changing the conditions of the Universe in terms of matter, force and mind - This is the true Spirit or "THE ALL", and its manifestation the real "Magic" '

In other words: "The Universe is Mental; THE ALL is Mental"

- The Kybalion

http://bobert1.home.mindspring.com/kybalion.html


Edited by - antiloop on 10 April 2002  05:47:43

[IF ANYBODY CAN DO THIS IN THIS FORUM, PLEASE STAND UP!]

Hi thinker,

There were some interesting articles on that first link. The second one however; well, the source just seems a bit on the flaky side, especially when he starts quoting stuff from Star Wars.

As for the rolling die experiment. I don't see what this has to do with Telekenisis. Since the word implies movement through thought. And not guessing or dealing with probabilities/clairvoyance, altering the outcome of something in the future.

The "psi-wheel / energy wheel" etc experiment seems like an interesting and popular one. Whether you build it out of paper or tin foil, I think most people can get some immediate results. At least when they cup their hands over it. But I find all these methods highly unscientifically tested. Most people do not check thoroughly enough for minute air currents prior to attempting this without the hand. Even if your windows are shut and your doors closed, if you stand 10 feet away from it and it still moves, you still have air currents. Until the wheel stays completely still for a couple of minutes (unlikely in most rooms), I wouldn't be overly convinced of any results you attain if you proceed with your experiment. An easy way to see how volatile the air currents are is to beside the psi-wheel stick a incense stick vertically up and quite a bit higher than the psi-wheel so its smoke wont affect it, and just look at the smoke patterns going up. If the smoke is going directly up without much distortion and the psi-wheel isn't moving at all, then I'd say you've isolated air currents fairly well from the experiment. Also, when you do come close enough to it to perform the experiment, be sure to get one of those surgeon mouth/nose covers with the elastic that goes around your head so that your breath isn't the source of the movement of the wheel. If you don't have one of those, improvise with a piece of paper and an elastic or something of the sort. Those cloth based eye blinders they give out in air planes work well for this.

I also wonder if the reason the wheel moves is not due to minute static electric charge in our hands. To explain what I am saying here, simply take some clear plastic wrap, also known as surrand wrap (sp?) - the stuff we use in the kitchen to cover plates with left-overs before we put them in the fridge.

Get out your roll, and tear off a sheet of about a foot in length, then simply take the top edge and press it down on the end of a table so that most of it hangs off the edge. Now slowly approximate your hand toward it and you will see the clear plastic wrap move toward your hand - a simple display of static electricity. The same stuff that makes balloons stick to your head when you rub them on your hair. So what's this got to do with a psi-wheel?  Well now tear off a small piece of paper, about 1/2 the size of a finger nail and approximate it to the clear plastic wrap, eventually the paper will JUMP onto it and stick like glue. The same thing occurs with tin foil.

So if you've completely blocked out the "wind/air current" as the source of moving your psi-wheel, I question if static electricity isn't the source of its movement - whether you build it out of paper or tin foil.

The one arguement I can come up with against the static electricity generation from your hand is that if indeed this was true, the wheel would in theory spin once until one of its edges would be closest to the point in your hand generating the greater amount of static charge and then the wheel would stop there and not move, or slightly vibrate from side to side, but not rotate anymore.

Heat from your hands is another issue which I'd raise against this TK experiment.  Perhaps the minute heat generated from your hand creates  tiny air currents to make the wheel spin. This however, would not explain why the wheel changes direction every now and then...seeing as heat would only go upwards and thus one would think that the wheel would only spin in one direction if this were the cause.

If somebody claims and can show that they can make the psi wheel rotate in one direction for X seconds, then stop, and reverse direction for X seconds and then stop, UNDER A TRANSPARENT GLASS(which would block out the wind, heat sources, and most small electric static charges) from a distance of say 2 or 3 feet (no hands this time, only mind)... Then I would be convinced that person has TK abilities. I'd like to see some of those "TK" teachers out there on the web claim they can actually do this, REPEATEDLY say 5 out of 5 tries in a row successfully. If yes, then I would actually listen to what they have to say as far as their teachings. If not.. time to move on.

IF ANYBODY CAN DO THIS IN THIS FORUM, PLEASE STAND UP!

I don't doubt TK is real even if I have not seen it to my satisfaction, but I do doubt some of these web-TK-teachers and their unorthodox/unscientific approaches to this interesting phenomenon.

It is like writing an essay in school. If you want to try to prove a point, then you need to take all oposing ideas into consideration and disprove them one by one... Once you have done that and your concept is the only one left standing, then you have done your job, otherwise, you leave big gapping holes for skeptics to hack through.

They have plenty of motivation and they dedicate plenty of practice time it seems, and kudos to them for that, but they need to be more thorough in their "lab" experiments.

Just my 2 cents.. ok, ok, 2 dollars worth

antiloop

Hi Dj,

The point shift technique to my understanding is one of the most difficult ones to master, however it is the most powerful exit and transportation technique. Having experienced this myself on a few lucky occasions I can tell you it is quite amazing.

It is the literal "beam me up", the "teleportation" in the astral world. There is no need to travel the distance from A to B, which means you can avoid getting geographically lost, disoriented or distracted along the way. You simply dissapear from A and appear at B... INSTANTLY! - this in the case of traveling with the astral. In the case of exiting with this technique, obviously your physical body doesn't dissapear, but your astral body auto appears at location B

So how can this be done? It requires a special type of concentration, a focus so intense that your conciousness transfers to location B. In my experience I have done this via visualization technique. I was able to see a person at location B, a wall, or even a small  object on the floor - it doesn't really matter. What matters is that what you are visualizing exists at location B and you not only know what it looks like, but you are able to see/feel it so perfectly that you believe without a doubt you are already there, and then within 1 to 3 seconds your entire conciousness transfers there. This is rather difficult to describe, it is beyond your typical visualization practices and I certainly have not come anywhere near mastering it yet. A special requirement seems to be the right state of mind which can not easily be induced (at least for me). The only times I've had success with this is when I wake up 1/2 way through the night and feel my physical body full of energy and I for some reason have a very strong ability to concentrate, everything is perfectly clear - what I command my mind to see, I see perfectly as if it were in front of me physically without ANY doubts. I might as well have my eyes open - what I see during the visualization is FLAWLESS.

Note this type of concentration requires perfect relaxation as opposed to "tensing" as you described. If you have not OBE'ed yet, I would discourage you from trying this method first, as I do believe it may be the most difficult. Feel free to give it a few tries.. but if it is not working for you, go back to some simpler methods.

Good Luck!
antiloop

Hi, I found an article on the web a while back re: Telekenisis and copied it. There doesn't seem to be any copyright, so I'll just paste it here. Please excuse the crude formatting and enjoy...

antiloop

PS. I have no idea how good/bad this article is at teaching TK, but I'm guessing it is better than no information
=========================================
Theories on TK
Improving TK
Beginning
Practicing
Thanks

Telekinesis


Meditation is the main key in Telekinesis, AKA, TK...We know it seems like alot of meditation, but it plays a VITAL role in it.


What is Telekinesis
Telekinesis is essentially the ability to move an object on the physical plane using only psychic power. While some people think that it is an occult practice, this is not strictly so. I can only give my perspective, but I believe that we are all born with this skill. It is inherent, like walking, talking, breathing. We simply neglect it from day one. A common theory is that TK works by energy fields (magnetic or electric) or by "waves" of psychic energy which are actually dense enough to push/repel an object or draw it inward. Most people's only encounter with TK is accidental- something mysteriously falls over or objects fly around a room, a phenomena often mistaken for a poltergeist when it may actually be a person with spontaneous telekinetic powers. Anyone can harness their power and use it with the proper devotion.

A theory on Telekinesis
Telekinesis is thought of as this really amazing "talent" that only a few people have. Quite the contrary, I believe that telekinesis is something we all inherently have. We simply do not use it. In fact, in general, we all have psychic abilities. Let me explain. Every living person has a brain. Obviously. To say anything otherwise would be preposterous. However, we don't use the entire brain, we don't even use the better fraction of it. We also each use different parts more than others. Some people enjoy art, some enjoy math and numbers, logic, sports, writing, dancing, collecting... all of these activities use a different part of the brain. This is like psychic ability. We all use some of our total psychic potential, but far from all of it. Some of us just "know" when something it going to happen, or can predict an outcome better than most people, or get a "sense" of whether a person you just met is of a good or bad character. All of these are uses of the psychic power. Just like the brain, we can also exercise the parts that lay unused. An artist can learn algebra if they really put their nose to the grindstone. Just the same, you can learn telekinesis with proper training and expanding of your natural psychic abilities. The only thing that holds you back is not believing in yourself. Just like the child who says, "I can't do math, it's impossible", the person who says "I can't use telekinesis, I just don't have the ability" is holding themselves back. They say that you're your worst critic. Well, stop it! Believe in yourself and the abilities will follow

Improving Your Telekinesis
A person seems to think that trying for a week is a "long time". Forget that. Telekinesis is worth the wait, but what a wait it is. The very skilled get it in 2 weeks. A greater faction of us doesn't get there for months, maybe years. I have developed this list to help you get on the right path towards telekinesis. KEEP TRYING!
1.Meditate daily for half an hour, fifteen minutes if you're schedule is too busy. 2.Attempt TK at least once a day, twice if possible. Give yourself a good 30-60 minutes to try it.
3.Focus on one method for at least a week, if it shows no results, switch methods. 4.Be at ease; instead of taking it too seriously think of it as an experiment, a game. If you try too hard you'll just end up frustrating yourself and you'll get nowhere.
5.Don't give up.
6.Don't tell yourself you can't do it, because you can.
7.BELIEVE!!!!

Where To Begin
There are certain things you need to work on before you can get anywhere with telekinesis. Here I will discuss the obstacles you must overcome and the exercises you must practice.
1. Doubt
TELEKINESIS IS REAL. People have done it, people do it all the time. It is a gift all humans hold. Get that through your head before going any further. Doubt is like a wall between you and TK. So climb over the wall and leave it far behind you. You do not need doubt in your search for truth, especially not when it comes to the powers of the mind.
2. Logic
Okay, you live in a practical world, it's only natural to try to reason things. Don't bother. Set practicality aside, and when you achieve TK, you will then see how silly the concept of logic is altogether. It will all make sense when you get there.
3. Purity of the Heart
Why do you want to learn TK? You reasons must be positive and your intent must be pure. If you wish to learn it to harm people, to profit off a strange talent, or just to impress your friends, forget about it. Learn it to exercise the mind, learn it to challenge your reality. Don't try it for some kind of cheap glory. If that's your intent, you'll get nowhere.
4. Meditation
YOU MUST MEDITATE. Consider this a requirement. Take it one step at a time. Meditation is key in order to prepare the mind for telekinesis.

Practices
Spoon Bending
1.Meditate for half an hour.
2.Find a spoon or fork.
3.Hold utensil in your hands.
4.Sit in a quiet space, breath deeply, and relax yourself. Escape mentally from all thoughts and sounds.
5.With your eyes shut, rub your fingertips lightly over the surface of the spoon's handle.
6.Feel the surface without necessarily thinking about it. Become a "part" of it, the atoms of the metal mixing with the atoms of your fingers and the air so that they flow together as thought they are water. Imagine it melting into liquid.
7.This may take a few attempts. You will begin to actual feel the energy and the warmth on the metal.
8.At the moment you feel the momentum of the energy, bend it! Don't put physical force on it- you're not testing your ability to bend a spoon with your hands. You already know you can do that. It's your mind we're testing.

Moving a Small Object
1. Choose a small, lightweight object, preferably made of a light metal, such as a cheap ring.
2. Clear your mind completely. You should have NO distractions whatsoever, and try not to let erroneous thoughts into your mind, or you will lose your focus. Concentration is vital.
3. Build a "tunnel" between you and the object. Visualize this tunnel between yourself and the object. You only see the object. Everything else is outside of the tunnel, and thus, outside of your view.
4. Now, imagine your mind's hands coming out and pulling the object in. Once you feel the pull, you might want to make sounds in your head that suggest a strong magnetic field (nnnn.... nnn.... nnnn.... ) It may sound silly, but it works! Don't expect this to work the first time you try it. It might, but there is also a chance it will not. Try, try again! If you cannot devote your time and patience to this, don't bother trying it at all.

Dancing Flame
1.Meditate for half an hour.
2.Light a candle in a safe place. A white candle on a white/light colored table is best. 3.Get comfortable and breathe deeply.
4.Stare at the candle's flame. Do not think about anything, clear the mind but keep the flame in front of you. Soon you should see only the flame. Not the table, not the candle, not the room and objects surrounding you, just the flame.
5.Now imagine the flame is stretching upward, growing taller, brighter. You can put your hand above it and imagine you are drawing the flame upward. Imagine the flame shrinks, becomes smaller and shorter. Imagine it flickers and dances. Imagine it bends. Practice these things until you feel you are "one" with the flame, and it is doing as you desire it to.
6.Keep practicing this, once you are comfortable with your ability to do this, try putting the candle out with your mind. Could you light it up again with just your mind? Hmm... anything is possible!

Psi-Wheel
This is a simple experiment to exercise telekinesis.
1. Take a metal thumbtack (the kind with a flat, circular base) and set it so that the sharp end is pointing upward.
2. Now take a small square of white paper, about 1/4 inch by 1/4 inch (maybe even smaller), and carefully balance it on top of the tack. You can replace the bit of paper with a piece of carefully cut aluminum foil if you feel more comfortable with metallic energies.
3.Meditate for half an hour.
4.Now sit in front of the "psi-wheel" you have just created. Stare on one corner of the square of paper. Focus all your energy on that one corner, willing the paper to start turning on top of the point. Imagine the wheel (the paper) begins to spin on the axis (the tack). Hold your concentration for as long as it takes for you to get it spinning. Once you have the hang of this, try knocking the paper off the tack!

Floating Wood
1. Meditate for half an hour.
2. Fill a clear glass bowl with fresh water.
3. Drop a toothpick or other small wooden object into the middle of the dish. Since there will be no friction between the water and the object, it will be easily to move it because there is less resistance.
4. Get comfortable and breathe deeply.
5. Look at the toothpick. Imagine your mind's "hand" coming out and pushing on the object, and imagine it gliding across the water to the other side of the dish. Feel the energy pushing on it. You should begin to notice some movement after a while. You can use your hands to direct your energy, but don't touch or blow on the toothpick. Once you have practiced this and you believe you have gotten the hang of it, take it one step further. Imagine that you are pushing down on the object, forcing it to go under the surface of the water. This will take more concentration, but the results are also more significant.

Swinging on a String
1. Meditate for half an hour.
Cut a piece of thread about 10 inches long.
Tie a wide object to it, like a needle, a toothpick, or a short piece of a wooden rod.
Hang the string so that you can sit comfortably in front of the hanging object.
Sit far enough away from the string so that you know you aren't making the object spin with your breathing.
Let the object come to a complete stop, not turning at all in midair.
Take a deep breath. Focus all your attention on one side of the object, right or left, it doesn't matter which. Imagine the object slowly turning as if your mind was really pushing against that side of it. You can use your fingers to "point" your energy, but do not touch the object. Once it starts to turn, and who knows how long it will take you to get this far, imagine that your energy pushes it faster so it speeds up. It should turn with greater momentum. Practice this. Once you get the hang of it, keep using this method to get the object to swing instead of just spin. Good luck!

A lot of people reading about the Psychic Window Technique have asked me for information on telekinesis (moving objects with the mind). Since I have some experience in this area, I thought I would tell you what I know. The most important thing to understand is that it is possible. Telekinesis is part of physical reality, just as telepathy is. The next most important knowledge related to achieving success with this, or any other human ability, is realizing that if one person can do it, any normal person can do it, and that means you. There is a prerequisite to achieving success in this endeavor, and that is having the ability to relax completely and focus your attention without distraction. In itself, concentration is one of the easiest activities one can possibly perform. It is simply being aware of one thing without distraction, and happens to an intense degree while watching the exciting scenes of any motion picture, for example. In actual practice it can be nearly impossible to maintain concentration for any length of time due to the subconscious concerns of day to day living. If you are going to practice the techniques described below, it would be to your advantage to perform relaxation exercises prior to beginning. After you have achieved success a few times the necessary focus can be reached quite easily. I think of telekinesis as manipulating a sort of human "magnetic field" around the body which can be concentrated in a specific area. (It is probably possible to move objects at a greater distance but I have no experience in doing so.) By concentrating this "magnetic-like" energy in the fingers of one hand, I have been able to cause a metal spoon balanced on the edge of a water glass to begin rocking back and forth till it falls off the glass. I did this ten times a day just to stay in practice for a period of two months about ten years ago (and caused a lot of jaws to drop in restaurants in the process . Since then I have been too preoccupied with day to day life to really focus my attention properly, and it has been hard to find a combination of a glass and spoon which would balance properly, so I more or less gave up on pursuing such a "useless" novelty. Lately my interest has been growing again so I might start looking for a suitable object to resume my practice, but all you really need to know is that it can be done, and ordinary people like you can do it. Using the analogy of magnetism is a good way to focus your attention. You need to imagine a magnetic-like field around your hand, and push your hand (or finger tips) into the "magnetic field" of the object you want to move. (Such a field surrounds every object on Earth.) When one magnetic field interacts with another it will either push or pull against the other depending on the two magnetic field polarities. Opposite fields attract, similar fields repel. By concentrating on the belief that the field around my finger tips was very strong, I could momentarily place my finger tips near the end of the spoon handle and imagine it pushing against the magnetic field of the spoon, causing the spoon handle to move downward slightly. I would move my finger tips away to the side to let the spoon handle move back upwards, then repeat the process by moving my finger tips over the handle once more. This repeated movement of my finger tips to the side then back over the handle slowly caused the spoon to rock more and more till it would fall off the glass. You have to be careful not to move your hand up and down, at least in the beginning, because the "wind" generated by the movement of your hand could cause the spoon to move. You must also be careful to note and breezes in the room from heating or air conditioning, since your hand might block the breeze off and on and cause the spoon to move accordingly. If you rest your elbow on the table while doing this, be sure the table is VERY solidly positioned or you may accidentally cause the table to rock slightly in a rhythmic way, which can also cause the spoon to move. The very first time I achieved this it took five hours of relentless effort before I was sure I was actually doing it and that none of these variables had been the cause. I thought I had succeeded after about two hours, but continued the exercise because I wanted to be absolutely certain I had succeeded in developing the ability. It should not take you as long because I had no evidence at the time that it was really possible, and no technique to work with that was known to produce results. After that first time I could get it to work in less than five minutes, and later could do it without major effort, knocking the spoon off in less than a minute. The WHAT you do here is obviously not nearly as important as how you think while doing it. Psychic phenomena happens at a nonverbal level of awareness. Your conscious thoughts only help focus your attention. They don't do any of the "work" involved. While imagining my finger tips pushing out "strong magnetic fields" I would mentally think, "uuunnnnnnnn, uuunnnnnnn" each time I placed my fingers over the spoon handle. But even then I did not put my attention on the "word" I was "thinking." I actually tried to make the intensity of the "magnetic field" drown out the word. When you do that properly the "uuunnnnnn" actually goes away and instead you can feel the magnetic field in your finger tips. If your attention is on the thoughts you think you will not be able to maintain any consistent results. Your thoughts direct your intent to the subconscious, which then does what you HONESTLY EXPECT it to do. As far as I know this is true in every type of psychic phenomena. It's not what you think, but what you expect. Once you have achieved certainty that you have the ability to do this, it is far easier to expect the results you want, and less effort is required to achieve those results. There is another preliminary exercise you can do in the beginning to help focus your attention. If you hold your hands together palm to palm (as in prayer) but space them ever so slightly apart so they nearly touch, but don't, you can feel the heat given off by each hand. It is a very subtle sensation but you can indeed feel it. If you then "imagine" that what you are feeling is actually the magnetic-like field emanating from each hand, by moving your hands a bit closer together you can feel the fields pushing against each other. When you move your hands apart slightly, you can feel the pull of the fields. I believe these fields actually exist, and that the subconscious is aware of them. By concentrating your attention on your perception I believe you are simply tuning into subconscious awareness. This isn't all that unusual, since right now your subconscious is aware of whether you are breathing in or out, and if you are leaning forward or to one side slightly, etc. As soon as you think about it you become consciously aware of subconscious awareness that was always just below the surface. I am simply pointing out that psychic phenomena is a subconscious process all of us experience constantly. We just have to know what to look for and the awareness becomes instantly available-- Koda

We would like to thank Koda for his/her Dialog. For we have used it and it happens to feel like what it describes. Thank You Koda

This sounds to me like a "false awakening". I've experienced these myself several times. My first few felt very real and also quite frightning. It was not until I realized that what was happening could not be real that I then either woke up for real or woke up in another false awakening. In one case I had so many repeated false awakenings that I actually started to get frustrated and also a little scared that I wasn't going to wake up for real.

I have only experienced these after I have had an OBE of sorts, so perhaps you had one but forgot it and then entered into the false awakening mode.

Cheers,
antiloop

Hi DjMidgetMan,

Why the need to be in the same room? And why the need to project at the same time?

Why not each of you get your own poster, put them in your own rooms, project whenever you are capable of doing so with intent on meeting there together.

The Astral is not bound by linear time and thus it should be possible to project into the past or future. If your friend succeeds to project there today, you may actually be part of his experience even though you might not successfuly project there until next week.

Good luck and happy gaming
antiloop

Greetings zugzug,

quote:
Astral Magic: What's everyone's opinion/advice about this?

While the creation or influence over objects/places/entities etc in the physical world by apparent supernatural means is considered indeed magical, the application of same in the Astral is at least in my experience not so magical and more of a natural occurring phenomenon there. In my very limited experience thought and sufficient will power can not only influence your subjective reality in the Astral but it can actually create and destroy objects or entities. The term "Be careful what you wish for" takes on a whole other meaning there

quote:
R. Bruce mentions that you can create lasting objects or places, or even entities with intelligence, when out of body. Like the sword, for instance.

It is my understanding that indeed it may be possible to create lasting objects or entities in the Astral but I have no experience in this. What I have created or destroyed there was only verifiable to me during the time of that experience and I have not been able to go back to double check if they are still there or not.

How something created in the Astral affects the physical plane I would say is a rare occurrence as it is my understanding that you need to be very experienced in the Astral before such attempts can result in physical manifestations. I speak here of manifestations excluding the affects on your being, for it has been my experience that every Astral Projection has deeply affected me, my view of the universe/life etc.

quote:
Would a created entity help you out while you're not projecting too? And about how long would it take to make something like that solid and lasting?

The quick answer: Yes it may and how long it takes to do this is directly dependant on your experience. When it comes to "magic(k)", what may take a novice X hours to achieve, a more advanced magician could achieve in a fraction of the time. Here I speak of the creation of Astral entities from the Physical. The creation of Astral entities once in the Astral may occur a the speed of thought, but how realistic these creations are is something I discuss further in the post.

Here's a little more on the creation of entities...

(The following 3 paragraphs are but paraphrased  excerpts from the book: "Initiation Into Hermetics" by Franz Bardon)
=======
The creation of entities is otherwise known as "evocation". This is a practice that need not necessarily take place in the Astral and is a possibility in the physical world - The details of such practices can be found in many occult literature, but be warned this is not subject matter for the neophyte.

A functional entity's motives are that which your will has impregnated in it during its creation. If you choose for it to help you in a specific way, then that shall be its purpose. I repeat myself: Be careful what you wish for!

Such entities are not necessarily "solid" as they exist primarily as Astral beings even though they can be sensed in the physical without a shell/body like ours. How long their astral bodies last is primarily up to the wish of their creator at the time of creation. The experienced magician will always create an entity with a specific purpose and assign it a time of death. The time of death assigned should be either upon immediate success of its purpose being fulfilled or simply a timeframe that defines its life span. I.E. if the purpose is not accomplished within such and such a time, then the entity's existence shall cease regardless. The untrained magician who creates entities without sufficient control over them will be responsible for all their actions and pay for this with his karma - hence the destruction of the entity after X period of time regardless of success. You can always create a new one with the same purpose.
=======

quote:
I understand the moment your concentration laxes, it goes away?

Concentration is a significant part of what differentiates between delusional Astral Projection experiences (pretty much a big part of all my experiences thus far) and the real thing. Just for the sake of completeness, as Robert has pointed out in his book, sufficient "energy" would be the other major requirement to achieving a very objective and accurate Astral experience. In fact, energy is the most basic requirement and concentration depends on it. Our ability to concentrate deteriorates in direct proportion to our low or depleting energy. This is true in the physical plane as well.

The verification of whether your projection is in part delusional or not can be achieved by you projecting back to the same time and location a second, third + times and verifying if what you are perceiving this time is still the same as the previous times. If it is not, then perhaps what you perceived the first time was likely influenced by your scattered brain (for lack of better wording). The same line of thought can be applied if you want to be sure that what you created in the Astral has remained after your experience has ended. "Simply" go back and see if it is still there.

It is hard enough to achieve a level of concentration in the physical plane such that you truly control that which your mind thinks and not the other way around (your mind thinking on its own with you having little control of this). When was the last time you were able to tell your mind "Stop all thoughts and stay quiet", and it actually obeyed you for any significant period of time?

In the Astral, your every thought has the potential to be directly translated into your will and immediate action or manifestation!

Your perceived reality with an untrained mind with countless thoughts per minute will result in a mere delusional experience. I am not by any means mocking these experiences though, for they can be beyond amazing and definitely still worth the "trip" for numerous reasons! It's just that they will likely lack in accuracy and your experience will borderline on that of a mere dream.  By this, I mean that as most everyone knows, your completely uncontrolled mind during dreaming state is able to create the unimaginable. And just as you believe this temporary and apparent reality while in the dream, the same will occur to you in the Astral - The difference being you have some level of lucidity in the Astral experience and thus may accept what you perceive as actuality the first time around.

As for how concentration affects your creations in the Astral, I would say you are partially right. When you lose your concentration, or your mind thinks and wills new events in regards to your creations, this, then shall be their destiny.  So yes, your creations may just go away or simply morph in accordance to your uncontrolled but still influencing thoughts.

Best regards,
antiloop

Edited by - antiloop on 10 March 2002  05:24:38

quote:
Robert did mention on the Art Bell program, in response to a question, that he would indeed like to map the Astral Planes. He also mentioned that this would be a very big task indeed, and would require much assistance to do it anything like properly. But it seems to be on the agenda certainly.

Hmmm, I have some concerns regarding this monumental task:
1) The projectors selected for this task would have to be VERY experienced as based on my beginner experiences the Astral is a very fluid area in the sense that while trying to project to the same location twice, thrice or more often results in different visual/audio and sensual results. How many of you have projected just outside of your body in your room more than once. Did your room look identical each time? How can you map something and determine what is located there if each time it may change?

2) From what I've read in other sources from people having "Astral Meetings" and then confirming in the physical plane via e-mail or phone of the things they saw at the same location where they met. It was my impression that the different people attending the these Astral Meetings at the same locations did not have 100% the same experience. Ie. They did not see the same things, feel the same things or hear the same things. It sounded as if they did however see SIMILAR things, but never 100% identical, yet they (3 or 4+ people) were all there at the same time and space. So it seems what is viewed in the Astral is subject to each person's viewpoint and deciphering of symbology pertinant to only them, like in a dream.

3) According to Robert the buffer zones with membrane like surfaces appear to have an infinate span. How do you go about mapping infinity? And furthermore, if each doorway looks identical (see back cover of his book) and the doorways aren't labeled (A,B,C or 1,2,3 etc) how can you come back to the same place to confirm what you saw there? Or how can you communicate the location of this to another person once you have "mapped it" ?

These are only surface scratching questions.. I'm sure dozens more could be thought up. But this is a good start.

Any comments on this Robert?

antiloop