Messages

I'm hoping to follow the same example as Bob Monroe. I think he had his first OBE at 43 years of age. I've been lucid dreaming for a few years, but I had what I would call my first proper OBE a few days ago - I'm 42. I suspect that younger people might find it easier to do this stuff. I certainly don't think age is a barrier though - there are certain advantages to getting older.

When I meditate my leg twitches a lot. I think its because your in deep meditate state. It also could be your body sending test signals to see if your awake or asleep.

There is probably something to what you are saying here. It would explain twitches. My experience with kriyas is that they are like deliberate movements that I've no control over. The first time they happened it freighted the hell out of me, and I thought I'd gone mad. I kept moving into yoga positions, and I'd never even studied yoga. I told the Thai monk that was leading the retreat and he just smiled and said it was normal. I've learnt to just accept that kriyas as part of my practice – they usually last for a few days and then disappear for months.  These jaw movements feels like it is been driven by the same energy that creates the kriyas – if that makes sense.

It could be others, "past lives", too.

Moen had to go almost one whole lifetime with an increasing unusual liver illness
until he did a retrieval of one of his past lives who passed away more than 2000
years ago, about the time of the Roman Empire.

I too wonder if I've had these experiences in some sort or another for more than 20 years,
but not as actual physical head-movements. So things may last...

That is interesting.
I've had a couple of vague visions that could be interpreted as past lives but nothing that compelling yet.
It would make sense though.

Hello Paul, it's just another "sign post" you will experience down the road to successful Astral Travel. Just ignore it and stay the course. You will see it will diminish after further practice! 

Thanks Lionheart, that is great encouragement.

I have something similar. I have some kind of head movements,
which come and go from time to time, most often _without_ Hemi-Sync.
I don't know what it is, but it seems to be more probable to start
if I intend to do a session, but it also can come when I try to go
asleep.

Some times I've actually wondered if it's some sort of illness, but
I really doesn't have a clue. Once I tried to ask out into the air
"what are these physical movements, why are they present". I
got the mental impression that the physical movements were merely
the result of sorting out "old crap", whatever that could be, astral
or otherwise.

My best guess, if it isn't a physical illness, is that these movements
are related to pre-kundalini effects.

What actually has bothered me more is that at times I've got pain,
mostly severe headache during a session, and I don't know what
that is either.

One recommendation I've read is that if it is pre-kundalini related,
one should not fight it, but instead one should let it happen and
perhaps pay attention to any impressions if anything at all can
be experienced.

Other recommendations are that if it gets too intense, stop doing
any astral related activity for a while.

Quite often I can also feel coldness in some part of my body, most
often somewhere in my head/neck or upper back. I also think
that is kundalini related. I actually don't know what kundalini is
either, so it may be just a metaphor to collect several physical
experiences into one word. It's quite common for me to also
feel "ticklings" in my head or neck, so I just think that is related
to non-physical energies. But what they do, I have no clue.

Also one channeled medium on youtube said that the first three
years or so, are the worst or are the ones with most effects. If
that's right, I have no clue either, as I haven't passed that three
year limit yet.

Further one may note that also Monroe got physical experiences,
for example a severe stomach ache (see Monroe's first book).
Sylvan Muldoon was ill most of his younger adult years, too.

If you have any belief in guides, you could try to ask them for
any explanations, and then pay attention to any emotions, images,
"knowings" or other things you may receive.

My impression is also that with Hemi-Sync, the biggest effect
seems to come for people the first times they listen to it, and
then the effects usually diminish.

Thanks Pauli2 - I feel slightly less worried about my sanity now.
I began experiencing these movements at an intense meditation retreat 9 years ago.
I was also given the explanation that they were related to kundalini rising.
I've never experienced it in the jaw before though, but this has probably to do with the fact that I'm lying down instead of sitting in the lotus position.
9 years just seems a  long time to be still having these effects - I must be carrying around an enormous amount of emotional baggage
Thanks
Paul

I'm experiencing strange sensations in my jaw when I try to astral project. I'm using the Gateway Experience audio tracks. My jaw was shaking like crazy earlier while listening to this - it stopped as soon as the session ended. It was quite a distraction. I've previously had experience with kriyas (involuntary movements) when meditating intensely, and I wonder if this is something similar? Am I just going crazy or has anyone else experienced the same thing?

Relax, it took me frigging forever to get a first projection. Well a couple months, but I was at it 24/7.

My best advice is truly go for an early morning attempt. I know. It is incredibly inconvenient. SOOOO much. but just do it, wake up early. I was stuborn. I truly thought I was better than the masses, and that was my biggest faliure. Wake up early. Go clean, really clean you house. You'll get bored quick. When you get the 'screw it' feeling, lay down on your couch and F12 it up. I'll be surprised if nothing unique doesn't happen.

Cheers,
Contenteo

Good advice - I probably am expecting too much too soon.

Man all I know is when its your time, its your time, and you can't force anything.  And the more frustrated you get, the harder it will be.  Im sure your higher self knows exactly when you are ready for the next level of experience, whatever that may be for you.  It took me about 4 years (yes years) after becoming obsessed with the idea of OBE to have my first fully-conscious OBE, just a few weeks ago.  And to be perfectly honest I wasn't always 100% focused on my techniques and practices, thats probably why it took me so long.  I remember reading my first Bob Monroe book and that was it.  I wanted nothing more than to just get to the vibrational state, and I was going crazy with all the amazing possibilities that astral projection presented.  So I would try pretty hardcore for a couple weeks at a time, and nothing would happen.  I even had the privilege of taking an OBE workshop with none other than the great William Buhlman in Boulder and still not much progress. I was getting much better at meditation though, and having some pretty profound experiences that way. 

So this continued for at least a year and a half to two years since I first read Monroe and wanted to OBE, I would just get really excited and practice hard for a couple weeks, and then kinda just go back to normal life and give it a break.  I would give myself a "fresh start" at the beginnings of some months and tell myself "this is going to be Out-of-Body August" and "I'm going to practice everyday for the next month."  But it seems like life was always interrupting and distracting me.  Then about two years in, during a layover time where I wasn't practicing at all, Bam! I got my first vibrational state experience following a lucid dream.  (and I now know that this was the higher vibrational state of kundalini vibes, which I learned from this site...  almost all my vibes now are the lower frequency type)  I was blown away by this.  I mean like crying tears of joy for 10 minutes in my bed afterwards.  It confirmed all this stuff I had been reading for the past few years (more than that if you count all metaphysical reading in general) and I was astonished at the intensity of the vibes, they truly are unmistakable. They only lasted about a minute and I remember I got my arms loose from my body, but not even a full OBE.  But the main point here is that I wasn't even focused on AP or OBE at that time and wasn't even trying.  It was au natural...

Then another 2 years go by and Ive reached the vibe state many times now, but it always freaks me out, I panic, and can never separate into an OBE.  My practice routine is about the same, every couple months ill get back into it, but at this point I'm not trying to force anything and Im growing a lot spiritually and Im pretty content just knowing that we are all spirits and that we all make it back to the astral at some point or another, no death, all that good stuff.  And all this talk about 2012 and a golden age of prosperity and manifestation is enough to keep me content just to be alive in these times, and Im just trying to work on "be here now" and Im seeing that a lot of my "spiritual" practices have major foundations in escapism, like I didn't want to be on Earth anymore, I just wanted to go explore the cosmos and other dimensions.  So I'm becoming more aware of this, and Im getting myself connected back into society and humanity and really trying to just be present and content with myself, happy to be here and to be human.  I haven't specifically done an OBE technique for probably a year now, but still meditate and read.

And somehow thats when I must have reached a state where my higher self looked down and saw that I was ready and prepared enough to go to the next level.  My mind and spirit are in a great place, I have an amazingly positive view of the future (I plug him, in almost every message I write, but please check out a radio interview of Mellen-Thomas Benedict, he will make you so excited to be alive you won't even care if you ever get out of body!) and even though my life is still far from perfect or where I want it to be, I've reached a place of pure contentment with whatever happens, the world seems perfectly imperfect.  And thats when it happened for me, just a couple weeks back, my first fully conscious OBE.  And it wasn't even that crazy of an experience as far as APs go, I just floated up out of my body, through my bedroom window and flew around my street for a few minutes, but to me it was exhilarating.  It was what I had wanted so badly for so many years, and it was perfect.  Its also exactly what my higher self knew I was ready for and what I could handle.  As much as I imagine the wildest possibilities of AP, if I'm honest with myself, I really don't think I'm ready to see some of the stuff thats out there.  Id like to think I could handle it, and I would love to go straight to the "clear light" of the highest realms and experience that bliss, but I know I have to work my way up to it.  Im also amazingly (back) in-love with the Earth now too, and want to be really involved with our home planet right now. 

So I guess my advice would be, and what ultimately worked for me, is to just try to get yourself to a place where you are happy just to be alive, notice all the good that is happening in the world, don't focus on the bad, and don't try too hard to force AP.  Continue your techniques and practices and reaffirm to yourself every day that when its your time to leave your body and start your astral explorations, that it will happen quite naturally and there is nothing you can do to force this to happen before your higher self deems your time has come. 

Thats how it felt to me when I just had my first.  It was so natural and although I took the long road, I don't regret any of it and I learned so much and read so many books and had so many other experiences leading up to this point. I'm glad I didn't rush anything and laid a solid foundation to build a lifetime of astral experiences on (I've been getting strong vibes and LDs about every other night since my first OBE and am handling the vibrational state with much more confidence and calmness, and its all happening naturally, I'm just going with the flow, along for the ride...).  I have still never had any form of OBE or vibes when I "tried" too, a technique or a phase or whatever, I'm not at that level, all my experiences have come completely naturally.  But I've slowly built myself up to the point where I get vibes naturally and LDs and hopefully many more APs to come!   But then again it did take me about 4 or 5 years, maybe you are closer than you think and this is your final push towards your first experiences?  I don't know but all I can say is you can't force it.  Think of a chinese finger trap, the more you pull on it and struggle to get free, the more stuck you become. Just relax, take time off, get in a great mood, have good dreams, refine your techniques, stay positive and know it will happen when its meant to be! (and don't forget to check out Mellen-Thomas! haha)

Thanks for this insightful post. I will check out Mellen-Thomas Benedict. I wouldn't say that I'm looking to escape life through trips to the astral. It is more that I've come to love my life so much that I want to see what more is available. I wasted many years caught up in an alcohol addiction but I managed to completely turn things around. It just doesn't make sense to me that the universe and consciousness appeared by accident - this gives me good reason to believe that consciousness is far more than just an emergent property of matter or an epiphenomenon. It seems more likely that our consciousness has purpose and this doesn't end when we die.

I can't argue with a man who wants to see that facts for himself. That's cautious and noble. However, if you don't want to almost die, you may want to take a statistical route. A good amount of research has been done with objectively rating NDE individual cases. You can take that data, and find a pattern.

Here's one of the many sites I found a while ago when I was first researching this. Most of the research seems to be happening outside America.

http://www.integralworld.net/vanlommel.html

Cheers,
Contenteo

Thanks Contenteo, I'll check those links out.
I'm hoping that there are other ways to find personal compelling evidence that I can find convincing without almost dying first

I've heard people in the chat lines say, "There is no death."
Around that time, I was very depressed, suicidal, and suffering from both neuroleptic shock, withdrawals, and anxiety attacks.  I over dosed on pills, but woke up gradually over a few days, and returned to reality.  Apparently, based on the condition of the house and cuts on my body, my physical body got up, vomitted out the pills, and was even walking around town and talking to people.  This does not bode well, yet, it seems that the non conscious part of me survived.  Does that make sense?  That the consciousness was impaired, yet the physical body survived by controlling itself?

At that same time, I was making contact with various occult groups, and even experienced astral invaders, which my cat also responded too with violent attacks to defend my prone, sedated body.  Is there a link between connection to an occult group and a suicide shortly after?  And then for the body to survive it, simply by becoming so violently ill that the body hijacked it's own controls and got up, promptly fell against various objects in the house, got sick, and then began to go a step further and check people out in town, I mean really, that's amazing.

So in one case, we have the spirit body, and in another, we have the physical.  It is said that when these are in direct alignment, there is no confusion, energy for sensory feats or psychic ability, and also, power to move the physical body beyond the limits of what is normally thought to be corporeal reality.

Well enough of that, I just wanted to add, if the Spirit is infinite and absolute, also, transcending and generating the physical, then we can power up our spirits and go astral directly from a meditative standpoint.  Whether we die, or whether we transcend, it doesn't matter, we still return to the Spirit level.  Banishing can also have the same effect.

I've had NDE and mine were very linear.  I watched my body die, and then my reality began to reconfigure itself, going through phases in which entities and gods and things appeared and took care of the matter, and finally, I watched myself return to reality in a mystical burst of voidal energy.  It's like I went into the astral, and travelled to specific planar focals, and revived.  I wake up in bed, and I look fantastic, can't really complain about that.

Thanks Chaos Mage, I was a drunk for 2 decades and I regularly suffered from blackouts so can imagine how that must have been. I once split up with a girlfriend and had no memory of it afterwards. Your experience with an NDE is fascinating.

To be honest, the knowledge off AP and even my own unitentional OOBE has done nothing to change me perspective of death. At the moment, i'm not sure where i stand with my view on the afterlife. I don't believe that everyone has a purpose, because if you look at some people, you can see that they have contributed nothing. Although, i'm not in a posistion and never will be to judge the worth of someones life, and no one knows everything about someone, so i can't really say that they haven't done something wortwhile. Plus there is the fact that just because you have a purpose, doesn't mean you will achieve it. As for death, i fear the death of others, because regardless of what comes next, it is still a seperation that may last forever. The thing that frustrates me the most about death is my inability to form a belief about what happens, or even know what i want to happen. I do not fear my own personal death, the on l y thing that annoys me is that i might not be around to see the reactions, which is selfish, but i think it's something we all want to know, especially if we are about to leave this reality of existance. THe thing that has changed my perspective on death the most has been my depression. During that time i was suicidal, and even though i attempted it, there was something that kept stopping me (ok, ignoring the time when the rope snapped, that wasn't my choice) and i've never been able to work out what it was/is, which annoys me, because i don't know why i'm still living, all i know is that there is something that makes me want to keep living on some level. It's very possible that this is mere survival instinct, or just fear of death again, but perhaps it's because i do have a purpose, and i am being kept here. To be honest, i favour survival instinct, but it's a theory. As for AP reducing the fear of death...i doubt it, for me personally. It's a bit like asking do dreams reduce your fear of death? I see them as similiar things, with some higher meaning, but mainly a product of myself, and therefore irrelevent to the afterlife.

Thanks tomcat, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but looking for these answers in the astral. It just seems the logical place for me to look at the moment. Maybe the best that I can hope for is that my search of evidence that consciousness survives death will keep my mind occupied  

Well for the sake of argument, nothing can truly "cease to exist". Materialists on one hand will say we are 'configurations' of energy that can easily be destroyed. Okay, maybe our own sense of the way we see our personal 'identity' to be is lost. Regardless of that matter it still needs to take a new form. It must.

Think back long before you were born, even conceived. That's one perspective of "infinite" death. You're here right now aren't you? Being in a deep coma is sort of like a death. Those in a coma for 20 years, will wake up from it, and will only have memories of what happened "yesterday" 20 years ago. Time flies by like nothing. Our awareness perceives time as an abstract sensation. Their is no connection between "then" and "now" it simply Is.

So in a way, the very second one enters the death "transition" it will be like "waking up" again, no matter what were to happen next. You can only go back as far as your earliest memory. "Time" started then. Your universe began then. It wont end there, it's impossible to otherwise.

The only question to ponder upon death is, will your 'awareness' and 'identity' stay intact? Some of us know this answer, others need self-evidence to come to their own conclusion.

As for your question, Personally It would have to be a Yes And No.

Yes in a way I am afraid of death, only because of what I am leaving behind. I fear the shock that this would put into the hearts of my loved ones, and friends, and those that depend on me in this life, for me to suddenly go, I do worry the cause & effect. Some of them lack understanding for what lies beyond their plain sight and I cant expect them to understand, as it is beyond words.

No, for a more selfish reason is; I simply cant be afraid of death itself. The life I live while considering the entirety of my metaphysical experiences, everyday it's a constant reminder of forces that are greater then myself, I dont need to be in denial, I can simply live at  peace with that.

Thanks Killa, you seem to have the type of attitude I wish to develop. I don't want to believe in survival of consciousness so as to deny life but instead to make sense of it.

Uh...yeah, no questioned asked.

NDE's all describe the same process as phasing, idk what more proof I can give you.

Cheers,
Contenteo

I suppose the problem with NDEs is that I've never had one. I would definitely count them as evidence but not yet compelling enough to completely convince me.

Other people might see it differently, but from my point of view, the first time I had an OBE I considered it a confirmation that a part of us...spirit or soul, whatever we like to call it, moves on. Having lost someone I was very close to a couple years ago, who fought an illness very bravely, but ultimately lost that battle. I have had a lot of the same questions myself. This has a lot to do with my interest in Astral projection, as well as out of body experiences. I know some people might be interested in it strictly for the fun of it all, which is fine. But I do like to believe there is a deeper meaning behind it all.

I'm with you on this. Having fun is important, but I've got more serious goal in mind.

Then succeed you shall!
Good Luck and Safe Travels!  

Thanks for lifting my spirits - I need it.

its possible... As through astral traveling people begin to experience the world out there without their physical being.

That's what I'm hoping.

Hi,
If you are passionate for an answer, go into the 3D darkness and ask this question with this passion and desire. Fear of it as an end to existance should be in mind too.
I hope you get an answer you can use.

Thanks Szaxx, I'll give that a try.

I have tried for many years and cant a.p. my self .  I would say if one did meet with many people in the astral that have died and are told that they are just fine , I would think that would reduce there fears of death . desert rat

That would be a powerful experience. I would have to first somehow test that they were not figments of my imagination though.

whats the one thing in your life that is not a reaction to a positive or negative influence

education or emotions or thoughts built on a foundation of reactions

, the point is there is nothing in your entire life that is not just a reaction to our environment
what this means is its your environment that is alive not you
your just an energetic reaction

so regarding fear of death etc, your already dead  

:NoY:

I've been involved in Buddhism for many years so I'm familiar with this type of idea. I don't find it entirely satisfying because there does seem to be an underlying awareness that is not just a reaction to the environment. It is this that I'm hoping to get to know better because my guess is that this does not die.

I can easily say that I'm not afraid of death, but I've never been close enough to death to know for sure. I'd like to think it would be easy and I wouldn't panic or be frightened, but who knows.

I know what you mean. Thinking about death and staring it in the face are completely different things. I remember watching a documentary about Ram Dass. He devoted decades to spiritual practices, but when he had his stroke, and believed himself to be dying, he became afraid. If someone like that can fall apart at death's door it is a bit worrying.

Sometimes I feel that I would like to volunteer my time at a hospital where people were close to death. Just to help them prepare their minds and let go of their fears. To help them create their own personal place of peace in the Astral that they could go to during their transition. Unfortunately this is not acceptable by the masses as of yet and would be highly frowned upon by not only the medical community but also the families of the soon to be deceased. My view on Death is quite a bit different from the masses. I am not sad when someone passes on, because I know they are just beginning. People tend to think that lacks compassion. The only time I am sad is when I see everyone praying for a person who is terminally ill and in constant pain and suffering. I feel that those people that are praying are being selfish and should just let the person go. They have suffered long enough!
I am not afraid of Death, but also I am not ready to go yet. I don't feel I have completed my purpose here yet.

Thanks Lionheart, I hope to one day develop your certainty that death is just a beginning. If I could take a pill that would give me such conviction I'd gladly take it now. Even if there turns out to be nothing after death I want to live fully convinced that there is something and die knowing that I'm going somewhere - if I'm wrong it won't matter. My primary motivation for spending time in the astral is to reach this point.

I've heard that time spent in the astral reduces fear of death. I just wonder if this is confirmed by people's experiences on here. Do you feel that their astral experiences confirm to your own satisfaction that consciousness survives death?

I worked as a palliative care nurse for a few years and know how hard it can be for people to face the end. I suppose this has made me far more aware of the need to be ready for this stage in life when it comes. So I'm wondering if experiences in the astral do make people more at peace with death?

I can't help but wonder about the ethics of astral sex.
If you are already in a relationship would it be considered cheating?
Is it just a type of masturbation?
I would feel terribly guilty about going off to the astral plane the to have sex with my wife in the bed beside me

Probably true. Still, lucky for us such a site exists.

Definitely!

So true! This is a great site to learn all kinds of useful information where AP is concerned. The people here are very well informed and very helpful.

I've been looking back on the old threads here. The long term users must be bored stupid answering the same questions all the time

I actually managed some progress last night and it has lifted my spirits. I had a mini out of body experience. It was a very strange one. I was just drifting off to sleep when it suddenly felt like I'd hit the sweet spot in my focus. I fell out of body at a rapid pace and then sort of looped up. I couldn't really see anything though. As my vision became clearer I couldn't see myself in the bed, but then I realized that I'd somehow ended up back in the bed. I'm not sure what to make of this, but it felt like progress. I had a similar experience in my first week using the Gateway Experience but then I couldn't see anything at all.

I think the difference this time was that I focused on the area of my 3rd eye area as I was falling asleep. I got that tip from reading back on some of the old threads on here. That 3rd eye area tends to feel really active whenever I am meditating or relaxed, but I never saw the connection between it and astral travel. I didn't really know anything about the 3rd eye until I began experiencing strange sensations there. If last night is anything to go by then perhaps it is the missing ingredient.

We are.

My advice, be patience. I've been trying this for more than 4 months, maybe 5. I've found out (in my case), that astral projecting is the highest spot you can reach in this field. I mean, meditation, energy work and all of that, is a training to be able to get to OBE regularly, and at will.

So enjoy your way to get there.

I'm actually focusing on passive methods as well (after months trying the active ones). Everything is useful, even if you don't manage to get out of body, you get to know your self better and will have some interesting and fun experiences in your way.

Keep it up!!, and keep us posted

I think you're right about this being the highest spot we can reach in this filed. I need to remember to enjoy the journey and not to be so obsessed with the goal. I'll need to investigate the passive methods – I'm not sure what they are.

I know exactly what you mean about LD'ing,

The trick with LD'ing and indeed phasing and obe-ing, I believe is this:
You train hardcore for 2 days, and then do nothing at all for 2-3 days, then train again hardcore for 2 days, then again do not do a single rc for 2-3 days.

By 'hardcore' you can do what I do, which is record dreams and do about 200-300 reality checks a day. The way I do reality checks is in sets of 10-15 (eg: if I'm in the bathroom washing my hands I do 10-15 reality checks in one go.

The easiest way to do this is imagine the whole environment around you is made of jelly, so try to put your hands through every single solid thing (eg: wall, your own hand, your leg, your stomach, mirror, a pipe on the wall, everything) and try to grab and squeeze every single solid thing as if you are squeezing jelly. This way you can do many RC's in a day. Just on the walk to the bathroom I do around 10 by simply trying to grab and squeeze everything on the way - door, cupboard, wall, tv, chair (imagine everything is jelly). Then in the dream environment you will end up putting your hand thru something solid and go lucid.

Then take a break and don't do anything at all for 3 days.

The point is that when you train for the ld (eg: reality checks, affirmations) and indeed any other kind of mental training,  you spend quite a lot of energy (lets call this energy of the 'astral body'), so when you go to sleep there is not that much energy left to go conscious or indeed to exit via an obe/phasing method. This is even worse if you feel any kind of disappointment in your efforts (the disappointment drains emotional energy which is even worse, as its all connected back to the astral 'body')

Then you find most of your trips happen during such 'breaks' rather than during the actual days when you train. Its strange but thats how it works for me.

That sounds bizarre, but it also makes complete sense. I can feel guilty about taking breaks but maybe that is exactly what I need. I love the idea of imagining the world as jelly. That is the type of reality check that would impact my mind – thanks for that.

Yes, it is strange how sometimes things come easier when you aren't trying. For me though, once I actually felt myself go out of body, I was amazed, and knew I had to learn more. My method was just to read and watch anything on astral projection, that I could get my hands on. I am still in the very early stages though. I have yet to visit any astral realms, and have yet to even go outside my house... at least not consicously. None the less, I definitely want to experience more.  If you feel you're getting stuck, perhaps you can try an alternate method, or maybe some our more experienced AP'ers have some tips.

Thanks Twilighter, we are lucky to have so much information available on the web.

Paul,

If you already lucid dream why don't you develop that instead, it will be much easier to develop than a 'direct' entry method such as a phasing meditation / obe attempt.

I use LD's mostly to enter.

Also if you develop LD's they will slowly leak into your other abilities, you will be able to 'phase' in the morning like a WILD (Wake induced lucid dreaming - you close your eyes and basically phase out right into the astral).

It sounds like you can already enter the building (astral) through one door (lucid dreaming), why are you trying to enter through a more difficult door now (phase meditation)?

You make a very good point nikolai, but I just haven't had much luck with the lucid dream method. My LDs come when they want to come, and if I make any attempt to encourage them they seem to stop completely. I spent a few months using the reality check method, but that seemed to make things worse. I also flit in and out of lucid dreams far too easily. I was sort of hoping that a new approach would give me more control and allow me to take things to a new level. I'm working on the assumption that if I keep doing the same things the same things will keep on happening so that forced me to try something different.

I like the idea of following some type of program and the Monroe method seems to be well respected. I've also invested what is for me a large chunk of money in the first 3 waves of that program- my wife would kill me if this turned out to be another of my fads purchases

I understand how you feel. I tried nightly for over 2 weeks, and still had no results. Then one night, when I wasn't even trying, and was sleeping in a strange bed in a motel room...It happened, I had an OBE after being woken from the sound of a car alarm. With practice they will come easier. For me, I find they comes easier if I choose a time when I am not too sleepy, or stressed, when I can clear my thoughts and lay in a quiet room, and just listen and gaze through my closed eyelids. It's only a tool, but I try and imagine a white light entering the top of my head, which somehow brings on the vibrational state. Under the right conditions, it works. But it does take patients, and it isn't always foolproof. Still it never hurts to try. Good luck to you.

It's strange isn't it. We can put a lot of effort into something but only see results after we've given up. I don't mind dedicating time and energy to activities that will help produce these states of consciousness, but I'm less enthusiastic about wasting time on something that isn't really helping. Life is too short.

Hi, although I haven't used your methods to try and induce an AP, I do think it is normal for AP's to come in fits and starts. In other words, sometimes they come more frequently than others. Most of this month I have not even attempted to induce any, because things have been so hectic, and I have been too tired and stressed to even try. Now that things are calming down somewhat I am planning to. Just stick with it, and when you are ready, you will progress even further.

Thanks Twilighter, I suppose I'm just looking for a sign that I'm moving in the right direction. When there is a lack of results I can't help wondering if I'm doing something wrong.

Sorry for not introducing myself properly, but I'm itching to ask a question. I've been able to lucid dream irregularly for the last few years, but I want to go deeper and with my astral explorations. I bought the first 3 waves of the Gateway Experience last month. For the first three weeks I was just galloping through them, but now I've gone right back to the beginning, and I'm working very slowly through each level. I've read some threads on here and they were very helpful - they suggest focusing on wave I track 2 and that is what I've been doing. I'm managing about 5-6 sessions a day. I think I'm putting a decent effort into this practice at the moment. I'm also a long term meditator, and I had hoped that this would give me a head start. I had a couple of lucid dreams in the first week and one almost out of body experience but since then nothing. It seems strange to me that I'd experience more in the first week than I would three weeks later. Is this normal? It sometimes feels as if the more effort I put into it the less impressive are my results. I suppose I'm looking for a pep talk here.