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ssjoku
Posted - 24 February 2003 :  23:18:07                                                                                                                                               

if you guys want to know what chi ki jing ect.. .  go to this site it has the answer http://www.naturalways.com/treas1.htm


Nice site, Ssjoku.  Good descriptions of the three treasures.
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kakkarot
Posted - 27 February 2003 : 23:33:01
just out of curiosity, how many people here have actually studied both the chinese and japanese cultures in depth?

i'm for guessing not many.

~kakkarot


I'm sorry Kakkarot but I find this to be a rather insulting statement.  By this I assume you have done the in depth study your accusing others of not undertaking.  And to be honest, I believe you have, just that the understanding you have come to differs slightly from others on this site.  Is that wrong? I don't believe so.  When you do undertake a study into something and reach your own experiential conclusions, then I propose you have achieved an understanding for your level at that time.

As an aside, since you asked in such a nice manner, I'm a qualified Acupuncturist and Naturopath with a number of years study behind my proverbial belt.  Am I wrong to accept what 3000 years of Traditional Chinese Medicine has learnt/taught?  Are you wrong in your beliefs?  The answer is no on both counts.

If you return to the origin of this thread, enquiring about the difference between Chi, Ki, and Jing, you'll note people have offered their own opinions from their own understanding. Since this forum is a gathering and discussion of ideas, I ask again - is this wrong?

- Michael

Adrian
Posted - 24 February 2003 : 23:29:26
Greetings everyone,

I propose that Chi, Psi, Ki, Prana, Vital energy etc.are all fundamentally the same. However - out of the Akasha came the four elements from which everything was created - Fire, Air, Water and Earth, and these can be individually accumulated for their corresponding effects.

with best regards,

Adrian.


I couldn't agree more.  These energies are the same at the core, yet can be individualised with the elements.

- Michael

Sorry, Kakkarot, we'll have to agree to disagree.  The descriptions and practical uses of both Chi and Ki are the same.  If your 'burning out' you're dipping into Jing.  When in true harmony with Chi and Ki you do not burn out: you replenish as you use.  There's an anecdote about an aikido master who was ill when the Emperor demanded his presence and a demonstration.  His apprentices begged him not to go, yet he did.  During the bout he not only defeated every one of his apprentices (even though his illness at the beginning of the match was crippling), but was cured of his ailment by the end.  He did it by acting in harmony with his Ki.  Chi or Qi (depending on which alphabet is used to translate the Chinese) is utilised in the same way.  The technique may differ but the results are the same.

Speak to any practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine or Japanese Acupuncture and they will tell you the same; they are discussing the same energy.  As an example of the energetic makeup - Chi/Qi is stored in the Dan Tien and Ki is stored in the Hara: both are the Lower Energy Storage Centre discussed by Robert Bruce.  The storage centre's function in Chinese and Japanese understanding are not dissimilar, in fact they are distinctly the same.

It is Jing, or perhaps Shen, (both Chinese terms) where the differences in energy lie.

Okay, it goes like this...

Qi & Ki are the same thing. Qi is the term used by the Chinese; Ki is the term used by the Japanese.  The energy described is the same thing.

Jing on the other hand is slightly different.  It is a Chinese term, often referred to in Chinese Medicine.  Jing is the base level of energy granted to us by our parents at the time of conception.  Jing is part of 'the three treasures' of Chinese energy theory.  We cannot supplement it in our lifetime, but we can bolster it by storing Qi.  When we run out of Qi we dip into our Jing reserves; this is why the Chinese place so much importance on building energy in the Lower Dan Tien. (Lower energy storage centre).

Hope this answers your question...

- Michael

Hi Adrian,

Just dropping you a friendly line from down under.

I'm using IE 5.1.4 on Mac OS X at 1024x768.  I'm getting a slight problem with the text overflowing beyond the border of my monitor - often by quite a bit.  So I'm wondering if it is a text wrapping problem with IE for Mac OS X or something else?

- Michael

Hello Daniel & All,

Just a quick note to mention that I generally read every post, but I don't always feel as if I have something to say (or whether my crazed mind's incoherent thoughts would be of value to the topic at hand).

But, be sure, I pay attention to, and think about, all that is mentioned here.  After all, there are some fine minds discussing excellent topics on this forum.

- Michael

Hi Kifyre,

Another area you could look into is the works of William Horatio Bates.  Have you heard of him?  He was a New York occultist who came up with a startling theory - one opthamologists and glasses manufactures like to suppress.  He theorised that the six external eye muscles - the ones you use when you look up/down/left/right - have the ability to change the shape of the eyeball. In other words NATURALLY ADJUSTING EYESIGHT.  He believed the external muscle may pull the eye out of shape resulting in near- or long-sighted problems.  Based on that idea he came up with a set of simple exercises, kind of like going to the gym but for your eyeballs, and proceeded to scare the industry because they worked.

I knew a guy who was using these exercises and in three months was able to get about without his old, heavy glasses.  And he believes his eyes will continue to improve.  He was actually seeing a professional who taught these techniques.  But the exercises themselves are really simple and take only five minutes a day.

The book Invisibility by Steve Richards touches this topic on page 54.

Try these sites:
http://i-see.org/perfect_sight/      
(This site has the original treatise Bates wrote online.  Haven't read it yet, but I'm sure the exercise will be in there somewhere)

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/g2603/0001/2603000190/p1/article.jhtml?term=
(This site has a four page article and summarises some of the techniques - it'll give you an idea about it anyway)

http://www.visioneducators.org/DrBates.htm

Robert,

In regards to your theory concerning time slowing the higher up the planes you go, would a being, such as the one Romero was dealing with, be so difficult to deal with (aside from its level of power)  because it forms multiple attachments with the same Spirit/Human across multiple lifetimes?  And, in effect, would need to be dealt with across these multiple lives in order to achieve success?

I hope this is clear.  The idea comes froms your theory on past lives not occuring seperately in linear time, but concurrently - and would a being at a higher level have opportunity to 'see' across multiple lives of the same person...

If this is unclear, let me know and I'll try to phrase it better.

- Michael

In ancient time, before Chinese Medicine evolved, the reason for dis-ease was often invasion/possession of bad spirits.  The use of the acupuncture needle was designed to 'stab', 'injure' the neg. that had attached itself.  Once gone, the normal flow of energy corrected itself.  Today this is looked upon with disdain, but traditional treatment was very shamanistic in nature.  I say this because moxibustion is used in a variety of treatments, and combined with its strong scent likely falls into a similar catagory as garlic (as Robert mentions).  Moxa comes in a variety of forms, but the sticks are the easiest to use.  I haven't used it to repel spirits, but it does clear a room in a similar way to smudging!!!

Michael

G'day all,

My prayers to Romero and Pearl.  And what energy I can raise is on its way.  May the Light prevail.


Michael.

Robert, if you equate this creature on par with archangels, then its appearance is as rare as the appearance of an archangel.  If this is true, then its reasons for being here must be complicated in the extreme.  I mention/ask this to gain understanding.  Is it here for the simple purpose of corruption (Somehow I feel that the creature wouldn't bother with something so trivial to one of its power)?  What, if we are capable of knowing, would a creature of this magnitude seek on this plane?  Is it possible knowing its reasons can aid in defeating it?

Hi Trilo,

I had a similar problem when I first started.  I found I tended to 'see' as opposed to 'feel' my awareness hands, and this limited the response I achieved.  For myself, the trick was to distract my visual tendency.  I did this by focusing my physical sight on the blackness behind my closed eyelids.  After a few moments, I would go on to 'feel' my awareness hands.  It worked.  For a bit, anyway.  But with practice I've been able to focus directly on my awareness hands (by the way, when I say with practice it didn't take long at all).

Hope this helps.


- Michael

Robert,

Love the proposed site.  The colours are good, I especially like the vibrancy of them.  And the layout is appealing.  The links worked well when I tried them as well.

Bringing each page into conformity with the proposed colouring will give you a site that excels.

- Michael

NB. I'm using iexplorer 5.1 for Mac OS X.  No problems when I was using the site.  Just thought you'd like to know.

Greetings Two Bears,

While I agree with the issues surrounding Kraig's use of sex magic, do you feel the rest of the book is invalid?  I ask because I thought it to be enlightening and practical, and would like to know other people's opinions.

As for the rubber band technique, I was reading Israel Regardie's The Tree of Life and he mentions a similar technique, except instead of using a rubber band he notes that you use a razor blade to cut the forearm (now that - the razor blade - definitely seems extreme).  If the basis of the technique has been utilised before, granted in a different way, then wouldn't he also note the rebelling of the subconscious?

- Michael

Howdy All,

Another possibility is one of balance; a higher energy state/vibration will transfer to a lower energy state/vibration (not deliberately or maliciously) in order to balance each other out.

Eg.  A bowl of water, divided in half by a barrier.  On one side the water level is higher.  Remove the barrier (physical contact/close proximity) and the water level will even out between the two.

Energy is fluidic in nature, and, like water, seeks balance.

It follows, then, that since you had been doing NEW and your own energy levels were higher there may have been a transfer of energy from you to your partner.  In which case, he may have had a better nights sleep or some interesting dreams...

- Michael

Food for thought!

Take the Real Time Zone, a duplicate of the physical world.  Add a mirror.  Would that mirror then have a duplicate in the RTZ able to reflect subtle vibrations - such as the aura - from its own level?

Alternatively, with the third eye's ability to perceive beyond the physical (such as remote viewing) is it possible for it to look at itself from a vantage point?  Maybe what is seen in a mirror is the third eye utilising a physical device to show ourselves what it sees in a way we can understand and accept!?

I suggest these theories for comment, not because I know them to be true.  They are some ideas I've had because I have come across techniques to use a mirror in regards to auric vision.  One is on the SpiritWeb website, the other I was taught at a KiForce training session (an energy healing technique).

- Michael.

Hi Pete,

I haven't managed to actually project yet - not from want of trying - but I can agree about the energy breathing.  When I got the hang of energy breathing it worked/works wonders.

As for OBE vs Sleep, if you look at Robert's comments on the trance state (and a light one is required for OBE), then the heightened energy sensativity/absorption of the etheric body is going to slowly build/improve your energy levels anyway.  At least, that's a theory I have.  And, after an OBE you'll get some sleep anyway - in a much more relaxed state, meaning deeper and better sleep.  So, in theory, it should be beneficial in the end.

If anyone with experience has any comments on this, I'd appreciate the feedback.  But for the moment, I can recommend energy breathing - Great Stuff

- Michael

Hi!  You're not alone!  Each time I make an attempt, I feel a pressure build in my lungs and throat area.  It has been easing progressively with practice, but it is rather distracting.  I remember reading that this 'tightness' can be a sign that the throat chakra is opening - since I'm not used to the sensation it leaves me feeling uncomfortable.  The good news is, as I said, it is easing over time.

- Michael.

As for question three, since using NEW is fairly covert in that there is really no physical movement, then it is unlikely to be challenged by anyone not sensative to energy.  If someone sensative to energy can detect your practice, I would hope they have the respect to leave you be.  But is that the world we live in, with everybody respecting others beliefs?

In response to your question on moving energy (and I realise this may not be helpful), but you can actually do it both ways.  Although, some advice I was given by a Qi Gong master was not to worry about how the energy moves from one place to another when directing it to specific areas, just concentrate on the end result.  In this case, I work by raising energy, then direct it towards my goal in a general sense, but focus more precisely on it arriving and doing what I intend (such as healing).

Feeling energy outside the confines of the physical/etheric fields?  I don't know what it is like for others, but I usually feel it as a knowing, rather than an actual sensation.  But that's just me at my stage of development (which is still beginning as far as I'm concerned).

If you have worked with the chakras before, you can draw energy through them before projecting it forth.  This can raise the amount of energy projected higher - and change its quality - but you would probably want to have worked with the chakras a bit, such as suggested by Robert in his NEW technique.  Ki Force (a technique taught by TM International) uses the chakras in this way.

- Michael.

Hi Malcom,
 My name is Michael.
 To answer your question, yes - energy can be consciously directed beyond the confines of the physical/etheric bodies.  An old axiom I came across a few years ago sums the process up very well.  'All energy follows thought'.  This is why concentration exercises are considered important - if all of your thoughts are focused on a single object/intent, more energy can be directed in this way.  Expanding on what you have learnt in NEW, you can draw energy into your body and direct it using awareness hands.  Be sure to 'feel' the energy going where you want it, and it will go there.  In Qi Gong, before a student is allowed to project energy, they generally have to complete a compulsory one year of energy raising/storing (into the lower storage centre/Dan Tien).  The reason for this is that the Chinese Energy Model (for want of a better term ) believes that during the projection process some of your own energy is transmitted - therefore, you lose some of your own, which can lead to fatigue or illness.
 Possible applications are limited only by the imagination, practice and experience.  Generally, most people will use this for healing.

Whether researching Qi Gong or any Western Energy Healing technique, there is plenty of good resource material available.  (Mantak Chia, L.V Carnie, Barbare Ann Brennan have some good books to work with.)

Good Luck to you!

- Michael.