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Messages - orian

#1
Part of a full-death hypnotic regression session:


Dr. N: What does the process of moving out of your body actually feel like to you?

S: It's like shedding my skin, like peeling a banana. I just lose my body in one swoosh!

Dr. N: Is the feeling unpleasant?

S: Oh no! It's wonderful to feel so free with no more pain, but... I am... disoriented... I didn't expect to die...

Dr. N: I understand. You are feeling a little displacement at the moment as a soul. This is normal in your situation for what you have just gone through. Listen and respond to my questions. You said you were floating. Are you able to move around freely right after death?

S: It's strange... it's as if I'm suspended in air that isn't air... there are no limits... no gravity... I'm weightless.

Dr. N: You mean it's sort of like being in a vacuum for you?

S: Yes... nothing around me is a solid mass. There are no obstacles to bump into... I'm drifting.

Dr. N: Can you control your movements, where you are going?

S: Yes... I can do some of that... but there is... a pulling... into a bright whiteness... it's so bright!

Dr. N: Is the intensity of whiteness the same everywhere?

S: Brighter... away from me... it's a little darker white... gray... in the direction of my body... (starts to cry) oh, my poor body... I'm not ready to leave yet. (subject pulls back in his chair as if he is resisting something).

Dr. N: It's all right, I'm with you. I want you to relax and tell me if the force that took you out of your head at the moment of death is still pulling you away, and if you can stop it.

S: (pause) When I was free of my body, the pulling lessened. Now, I feel a nudge... drawing me away from my body... I don't want to go yet... but, something wants me to go soon...

Dr. N: I understand, but I suspect you are learning you have some element of...

S: (pause) They are near... soon I will see them... I feel their love as I want Will to feel mine... they are waiting until I'm ready.


This is continued in this free ebook, "Journey of Souls" by Michael Newton:

http://meahuasca.com/resources/MIchael-Newton-Journey-of-Souls.pdf
#2
"What are the similarities of afterlife recollection between people reporting on their out-of-body experiences as a result of a temporary physical trauma and a subject in hypnosis recalling death in a past life? Both find themselves floating around their bodies in a strange way, trying to touch solid objects which dematerialize in front of them. Both kinds of reporters say they are frustrated in their attempts to talk to living people who don't respond. Both state they feel a pulling sensation away from the place where they died and experience relaxation and curiosity rather than fear.

All these people report a euphoric sense of freedom and brightness around them.
Some of my subjects see brilliant whiteness totally surrounding them at the moment of death, while others observe the brightness is farther away from an area of darker space through which they are being pulled. This is often referred to as the tunnel effect, and has become well known with the public."

From "Journey of Souls" by Michael Newton. Free ebook:

http://meahuasca.com/resources/MIchael-Newton-Journey-of-Souls.pdf
#3
Have any of you had a NDE? And if so, how did it compare to your regular OBEs, if you've also had those.


#4
The thing is though, that if you can only experience a lucid dream after the fact, so to speak, and not while it is happening, what is the point of it? For example, in the waking fully conscious state, we don't need to be aware that it is going on by writing a journal the next morning. We know it fully and while we are experiencing it.

The thrill of lucid dreaming should surely be the immediate experience of it and not a later interpretation of it from vague memories of the event.

If this is all that can be expected of lucid dreaming, maybe all the time and effort needed to do it is not worth it.

Anyway, no offence intended to those who do it.

#5
Quote from: Reemy on June 09, 2004, 07:01:03My dream journal is absolutely critical.  It helps in more ways than I can probably cover in this post. 

First, it really does improve dream recall.  When you tell your self that your dreams are important enough to be written down every day, your mind seems more willing to hold onto the dreams.  I probably had 10% or less dream recall before journaling.  Now I would say it's at least 90%.  I have several dreams to record almost every morning--sometimes 5 or 6 pages worth.

Secondly, I think if one is serious about dream activity, lucid dreaming, OBEs, etc. then writing it down just makes sense.  I know I'd never be able to remember all of the subtleties of those experiences otherwise.  It makes it easier to go back and see important patterns as well.  I can see improvement and setbacks early on.  It makes it easy to notice if a new technique that I'm employing is really making a difference.  I would have never noticed some really important, but subtle, dream patterns if it had not been for my journal.

Also, I think journaling helps program our subconscious.  We're reinforcing the dream imagery by writing it down.  If you're interested in lucid dreaming that's important--especially if you use dream signs as a trigger for lucidity.  I've had many more lucid dreams since starting my journal.

For me it's not just the journal.  I have my journal, and eventually all my dreams, OBEs, and even important meditation notes are transcribed there, but I don't start by writing it all there.  By my bed there is a note pad and pen, sometimes I reach for that and start writing while I'm still half asleep--it's barely legible, but I just need to get some quick notes out before I lose the images.  I also keep a tape recorder by the bed.  If I can't bring myself to write, that's the best--that's also good because I can use it while still lying in bed with my eyes closed--and that's the best state for dream recall.  If a dream is really vivid and lengthy I may go to the computer to type it out.  I can type faster than I can write so it helps sometimes.  Eventually all of those sources get copied over to my journal later.

I can't recommend it enough.  Admittedly I'm obsessed with my dream journal but, honestly, it's just so extremely valuable to me and a really important part of the progress I've made. 

Namaste,
Reemy


Sorry for reviving am old thread, but regarding dream journals helping you to recall lucid dreams, I thought the whole point of a lucid dream was that it was lucid and experienced while you are dreaming it, and not just a vague memory that you write in a journal.
#6
I was just curious that NDEs seem to cause major life changes and attitudes to humanity, as well as the people who had them, saying they felt a pure unconditional love directed towards them by spirit beings while they were in the NDE state.




#7
Thanks for the link. I can't find any comments there about how the experiences of OBEs have changed people spiritually, like NDEs have been reported as doing. By "spiritually", I mean, changed people's outlook on life to a profound degree.
#8
To be fair to the quote, it does say:

"Again, let me reiterate once more what has been stated in Chapter 1 and 2 on the point that neurological information neither confirms nor denies the actual, or ontological, status of an OBE as an experience that occurs outside of the physical body. Rather, neuroscience studies show us exactly how the brain mediates the expression, and constraints, of perception as it relates to consciousness. What consciousness is, how it comes to be and where it goes are questions that neurology, in its present form, cannot answer."

#9
Below is an explanation for OBEs in the book "Consciousness Beyond the Body Evidence and Reflections".

"Researchers have been able to pin-point the areas of the brain that are associated with OBEs by clinically studying the brain activity of people who have spontaneous OBEs, those who have suffered damage to the brain, as well as creating a variety of in-lab situations that can result in OBEs.
 
Taken together, studies along those lines suggest that OBEs are mediated by a part of brain known as the temporo-parietal junction (TPJ). The TPJ is part of the brain stem, which maintains the body's sense of balance. This part of the brain is part of the vestibular system, or the inner ear. It integrates the information from our senses, and creates a model that determines the position of the body in relationship to the environment. When a brain structure in the TPJ area known as the right angular gyrus is stimulated, the brain temporarily loses its ability to integrate all the information of the senses, resulting in feelings of floating, spinning and shifting gravity (Blanke et al., 2004).

Other studies have shown that people who are prone to spontaneous OBEs also have brain interference in between the TPJ and the prefrontal cortex, the part of the higher brain that is largely associated with self-awareness and higher ordered thought (Blanke et al., 2005). It appears, therefore, that the TPJ has an important role in creating and maintaining a stable sense of self, and its disruption can lead to shifts in how the self is constructed.

Again, let me reiterate once more what has been stated in Chapter 1 and 2 on the point
that neurological information neither confirms nor denies the actual, or ontological, status of an OBE as an experience that occurs outside of the physical body. Rather, neuroscience studies show us exactly how the brain mediates the expression, and constraints, of perception as it relates to consciousness. What consciousness is, how it comes to be and where it goes are questions that neurology, in its present form, cannot answer.

The relevance to the neurological correlates of OBEs for the present discussion is that the strong correlation of OBEs to the parts of the brain that are known to construct the self – as well as the mechanisms that are related to lucid dreaming and sleep paralysis suggests that OBEs, like all conscious experiences, are constructed and not to be taken as stark 'reality'. Of course, the same could be said for waking, rational consciousness. We do not perceive the world, but rather we perceive constructed models of the world and ourselves, and these models are associated with physiological constraints."

The book can be downloaded free here:

https://trans4mind.com/download-pdfs/Consciousness%20Beyond%20the%20Body-Alexander%20De%20Foe.pdf
#10
Many people who have had NDEs have been profoundly changed by the experience. Whereas before, they were self-centred and materialistic, afterwards they became more "spiritual" and "loving". Has any of this happened with anyone here in relation to astral projection, OBE or even lucid dreaming.
#11
You're welcome.

I was looking for a book like this, that deals with the subject scientifically.
#12
I just came across this free ebook, "Consciousness Beyond the Body Evidence and Reflections", which is a collection of essays on NDEs and OBEs.

Free PDF download:

https://trans4mind.com/download-pdfs/Consciousness%20Beyond%20the%20Body-Alexander%20De%20Foe.pdf

Reviews of it:

"This remarkable book serves as a metaphor for the current status of this enigmatic field – the efforts of psi researchers to transcend and expand mainstream understandings of living systems. 'Consciousness Beyond the Body' is unlike anything I have read in the parapsychological literature and it is especially needed in order to understand the 'how' and 'why' of OBEs."

– Professor Alejandro Parra, Ph.D., Faculty of Psychology, Universidad Abierta Interamericana

"It is a rare pleasure to read a book on the out-of-body state from a variety of different perspectives by experts in the field.'Consciousness Beyond the Body' not only shows how collaboration between renowned authors is possible, it also provides an exciting glimpse at what such a collaboration can accomplish. From theory to practice and controversies, 'Consciousness Beyond the Body' provides a rich and up-to-date account of out-of-body states. Anyone with an interest in these mystifying, yet universal experiences, will find this book of great value. I highly recommend it!"

– Frederick Aardema, Ph.D., Research Professor, Department of Psychiatry, University of Montreal

"Having spent a considerable amount of my time personally researching the OBE studies of Karlis Osis and Alex Tanous, I can thoroughly appreciate the depths and complexities of studying such phenomena. The evidence on the whole suggests that perhaps these experiences are not purely internal processes. While in an OBE, in some cases, it appears that information is obtained by some aspect of consciousness leaving the body – information of which the percipient would not have otherwise known about by using conventional sensory means. 'Consciousness Beyond the Body' is a welcomed anthology of varying contemporary research on the out-of-body state and first hand experiences, which I believe will be great use to scholars and students of today."

– Callum E. Cooper, Centre for the Study of Anomalous Psychological Processes, University of Northampton

#13
Thanks, but I've tried the breath one and the third eye pressure one. I also have been doing mantra meditation for a few years, but all to no affect. The meditation is good in itself though.

I'll just keep trying, I suppose.
#14
Well, ones like rolling over, climbing a rope, the feather one, imaging a vista to walk into. All require sustained concentration.
#15
Thanks but I tried all the others also, and they were even harder to focus on. The Noticing one is the simplest, in theory, so I will just persevere with it. Maybe the more I try it, my brain will adjust to it in someway and make it less difficult going forward. 
#16
I'm new to astral travelling experiences. I've read some of Frank Kepple's writings and am half-way through Robert Bruce's book Astral Dynamics, which is needlessly complicated and verbose. I'm thinking of not reading the rest of it.

I am finding it hard to "phase" using "noticing". I either fall asleep while doing it or lose concentration and allow distracting thoughts to prevent me focusing on the lights and shapes I see. Very frustrating.

Last night, I did begin to "enter" a sort of 3D blackness, or rather, the lights and shapes vanished to be replaced by a very dark uniform grey colour, that I interpreted to be the first stages "into" 3D blackness. This lasted about 30 seconds, then the lights and shapes came back. I was very disappointed. 

With me, the problem seems to be stopping the distracting thoughts and just concentrating on the lights and shapes to see if they "evolve" into any tangible images etc.

Is this a common problem with beginners?

 
#17
Quote from: Szaxx on August 31, 2023, 17:47:23Generally from what I've read many moons ago Frank labelled level 3 consciousness as an experience totally unlike the typical experiences we expect eg lucid dreaming. The 3 experience is on another level. Example, a state of mind where you are a point of conciousness and you perceive your environment as pure white light. You have no body and there's nothing there to see but this light. However, what you feel there is absolute bliss. There's nothing on earth like it. The purity and intensity overwhelm our human minds. The bad point is you don't want to return, its that intense. There are other examples but you need a lot of experience to become one with Frank's level 3. They are quite rare too

Frank does talk of a Focus 4 which sounds like what you describe as level 3. I was reading the Resource on him and he said there is Focus 1, Focus 2, Focus 3 and Focus 4. Focus Four is like what you describe. He said that Focus was "populated" by humans who got together and created the physical universe. That part of it sounds a bit outlandish. Because if they created the physical universe where did they come from if they were humans. I think Frank got a bit too enthusiastic there.
#18
Quote from: Xanth on August 31, 2023, 14:27:26The question I feel you're really asking is what is the difference between a lucid dream and an astral projection.

To that I answer the difference is only the level of awareness you have during the experience. The closer you can get to having the same kind of awarness you have now (I call it a waking awareness), the closer to a full projection you are.

So in effect there is no such thing as what we call lucid dreaming and astral projection, but rather a continuum of consciousness at varying degrees of perception. With the more practiced practitioners able to get the clearest perception of what they experience or "see" on this continuum? 
#19
Thanks, I'll check that book out.
#20
What is the difference between a lucid dream and visiting somewhere in Focus 3?

My understanding is that Focus 3 comprises of various "places, levels, planes" that we can change the look of by thought, or create objects in them by thought. I might be wrong, but that is the impression I get from reading some stuff Frank Kepple wrote.

Given this, if correct, how does a person who is experiencing a place in Focus 2, know that they are not just having a lucid dream - or indeed visa versa: how does a person having a lucid dream know they are not just experiencing a place in Focus 2?
#21
This makes me wonder if blind people from birth could astral project at all, seeing as most of the techniques to do so involve visualising, which blind-from-birth people wouldn't be able to do, as they have no concept of shape or colour to create visualisations.
#22
I was reading about the science behind the various lights and shapes we see when Noticing, and the science says they are caused by Phosphenes, which are visual perceptions caused by various stimuli, such as pressure, electrical stimulation, or mechanical stimulation of the retina or visual system. Essentially, they are perceived visual patterns or flashes that occur when there is some form of mechanical or electrical activity affecting the visual system, even in the absence of external light.

Given this, would a blind person be able to Notice, given the necessity for a functioning retina to Notice?
#23
Hi, has Tom written any books?

I've just started reading Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics. I hear he uses mystical language to describe his experiences which some people in various forums don't like.
#24
Frank writes:

"At some point we got together, from a Focus 4 perspective, and decided to create [focus 1] a common pool of subjective energy that would manifest itself objectively in the form that we recognise as the physical universe"

Doe anyone here agree with him?
#25
Hi, I'm new here.

According to all the accounts I've read of people who have experienced NDEs, they all mention being met by someone after death and experiencing a tremendous feeling of love emanating from this person and the surrounding environment. As if "love" is the energy that fuels the "after life". 

Yet in Frank Kepple's writings he never mentions love at all, or rather he mentions Monroe's description of it as an experience, but dismisses it, saying it is just a figment of Monroe's imagination.

This makes me a bit sceptical about Frank's experiences in Focuses 3 and 4.

As I said, all the NDE accounts (from every culture) mention this love, but Frank doesn't.