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In your own opinions, what do you think the nature of OBEs to be?

a) Your soul/spirit actually leaves the body and travels either within this world or to an astral-type realm.

b) A curious extention of lucid dreaming, and mainly biological.

c) Something else.  (If so, please explain)


Thanks.  : )

Hi all ........ I'm new here.

I'm wondering if anyone here also posts into the usenet alt.out-of-body newsgroup?

Also ... what is the general perception here?  The group that I come from is a mixed group.  Some people believe that they actually leave their bodies during an OBE.  Others believe that we don't leave our bodies because consciousness is not perceived in a bodily structure.  We also have a group of skeptics that think that OBEs are an extention of lucid dreaming, or basically, all in the brain.  

Just asking, and stepping in to say hello.

Michael, stick with me then, ok?  Janice (from the ng) has already started up an online group, with only a few members.  Soon she'll be opening it up to the public.  I have learned more from Janice than I have from anyone.  And she's more inclined to believe that OBEs and WILDs are very closely related, if not basically the same thing.  If anyone could help you gain more frequent lucidity, she can.

Plus, I'd like you to be there.  : )

You'd be a great contributor to our conversations.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>  Thank you all (so far) for offering your opinions.  It's really helped get an overall perspective of people's ideas.  

Michael ... you've had a WILD!  Great!  That's about the closest thing to a sleep onset OBE.  So the ability is there within you, although it may be more difficult for you.  

Maybe you should try working with lucid dreams for a while.  Keep an audio dream log (much better that having to write it all down - too tedious).  Keep track of what you see and experience in regular dreams.  Your recall will increase.  From there you can start working towards becoming lucid.  And in my opinion, OBEs are just a different form of lucid dream.  Yes?

Patty ... I agree.  Seems like the more aware I am, the more stable the environment is ... and it's more difficult to combat the laws of physics that we are used to in daily life.

In my newsgroup, we were just talking about this in regards to sleep paralysis as well.  Ever have an OBE where it seems to take a lot of physical exertion to get anywhere?  Seems like sleep paralysis tends to linger even after the onset of an OBE.

Michael ....

I glad I could be of some help.  I know that some of the skeptics in alt.out-of-body can be extremely critical.  I tend to thrive in those conditions (which is why I stay), but I realize that a lot of people don't care for the ridicule they get for wanting to share their ideas.  

I'm glad you haven't given up on OBEs even though you haven't had one yet.  Very persistant!  : )  Have you experienced sleep paralysis or the vibrations?
What about lucid dreaming?

Hi Jason.

IMO, most people equate OBEs with the paranormal because that's exactly what it feels like.  It feels like the "soul" is actually getting up, out, and leaving the body behind.  That's what the mind portrays.  It's not such a far leap for people to believe what their minds portray.  Yet obviously, this is more subjective than objective.  

But in taking a look at a variety of my experiences objectively, I have come across no evidence that would lead me to believe that I am actually leaving the body.  If anything, I've found the opposite.  

But that doesn't stop me from thoroughly enjoying the experience, or from talking with others whose experiences may be different than my own.  I try to remain open minded and hope that I will learn something new or different along the way.

Hi Patty ......  : )

1)  What is my motivation?  I suppose, this is something I have experienced since I was a small child.  I grew up with it.  And during dry spells I tend to miss this aspect of my life.  It's an incredible sensation, feeling, and experience.  Can't imagine my life without it.

2) I have yet to learn any great truths ... but I have learned a lot about the brain, and how our minds work.  I've also learned a lot about people, and how different individuals percieve the experience.  But the best thing, to me, is feeling like I have the ability to live twice at once.

Hi tayeowin .... glad to "see" you here.  This does seem to be a pretty active group.  I haven't seen Julia posting in the ng lately.  I think she would like some of the groups here.

Now BD, don't be giving me a hard time!  LOL  That's why I offered up selection c) .......   for alternate answers.  Like yours.  : )

Greg,

When I was a kid I used to get the vibrations while I was awake all the time.  It usually happened in the evening, and started about an hour or so before bedtime.  I also used to feel intense limb distortion ... my fingers elongating, and then distorting down to stubs.  Sometimes it was so uncomfortable that I would cry, and my Mom had to rub my hands and feet just so I could get to sleep.

As an adult I still experience it ocasionally.  So it's not all that uncommon.

I got chills reading that last post.  A member of my other group, and a friend I had for years had a statement he used to use to counter the Descartes "I think, therefore I am".  Gunnar used to say "I experience, therefore I am."  It makes you think, doesn't it?  It puts a whole new perspective on things.

Mobius, we didn't have much success with our group gatherings either.  But that didn't stop us.  We are a close knit group and we liked to do it for fun.  Even if it was only the challenge of attempting a conscious OBE on the same day ... and hopefully around the same time, if we could pull it off.  

I was raised as a Catholic as well.  Fortunately for me, my family wasn't strict on religion.  But I do remember going to my Mom when I was very little, and asking her why I could fly around my room at certain times, and other times I couldn't.  Her answer was "it was nap time and you must have been dreaming", but that only confused me more because I was sure that I was awake when this happened.  

In past OBEs I've been able to see what other people are doing around my house.  Usually it's at the onset of an OBE.  I'll usually wake myself up right away to check the accuracy of what I've seen.  Sometimes I'm correct.  Sometimes not.  With me, I think, at the onset of an OBE some of my regular senses are still active ... such as hearing for example ... and my brain takes what I hear and automatically fills in the visuals for me.  I see what I expect to see, based on what I hear.  Guess that's why sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong.

I've never been able to contact anyone deceased and gain any correct information, however.

Hi Bruce!!!!!  I loved the picture.  Guess this means that I don't have to put one up now since my own pics are in your background.  : )  I wonder if anyone else from the group will post over here.  I hope that Julia will.  This place would be just right for her ... and soothing to be away from the "skeptic invasion".

Hi Patty ....... well I guess we have something in common!  Over on my usenet group I'm pretty much considered a believer.  We have some very particular skeptics over there.  Here, I would probably be considered a skeptic.  I tend to agree with your consciousness spectrum.  I've had OBE since I was 4, and I have yet to get verification of anything physical.  

But I don't rule out the possibility of it.  Hence, the OBE group "excursions".  If there some possible way to get verification, that's one way to do it .... and if people are unsuccessful, it's a way to look back on the experience and consider alternate possiblities.  And beyond that .... it's just plain fun.  It helps motivate people to have some type of goal.  

Thank you all for the wonderful and warm welcome!

I'm familiar with Astral Dynamics, and many people find it to be a very useful book.  For the most part, I believe that OBEs are created by expectation and memories, based upon our brain's mental model ... and the astral realm is an OBE that has turned into a lucid dream when REM starts.  All in all, virtual reality of the mind.  But I'm open to all different ideas on the topic.  : )

Do any of you group together for little excursions?  Let's say, attempting to meet up on a specific date either somewhere physical, or astral, ... and then later comparing notes on what you have experienced?

IMO, time lapses occur mainly when an OBE starts to turn into a lucid dream. In most of my OBEs, I can recall how long the OBE occured compared to physical time.  I've timed myself, and I've been accurate within 5 to 10 minutes.

Oh!  I remember that urge to roll over on my side.  Isn't that cumbersome?  Very frustrating at times.  I couldn't help but to roll over ... but ... one thing that helped is placing a part of my body at a strange angle.  I'd dangle my foot or my arm over the side of the bed (while laying in my side).  I still got to roll over, but putting another part of my body out of place kept me awake enough to stay in tune with my determination.