Messages

I have been trying OBE, energy work, etc. for quite a while now.  While I've had some interesting experiences, I haven't had anything that even comes close to being OB.  I think my problem is that I'm a very logical, scientific person.  Mathematics and logic are what I do for a living.  So my mind just cannot grasp the concept that any of this is really possible.  It's extremely easy to explain away what happens to me, and even if I DID have an OBE, there are too many ways to disprove it in my mind, and it's horribly frustrating to me. []

So what I'm asking is this.  Has anybody here ever helped somebody by helping them to prove that it is all real?  That everybody here, myself included, isn't just delusional?  From what I've read from Robert Bruce, it's pretty much possible to go anywhere and meet anybody.  So it should be possible to do something like this, right?

For example : If I helped people get a general idea of where I am (Not a street address, I only want to be visited astrally, thank you.), could they go to me, and read one word on a card that I put out?  Or describe my bedroom, or house, or anything at all?  If I just had the SLIGHTEST bit of proof that there was something to all of this, it would help me immensely, both in my own practices, as well as mentally (I currently mentally live in a very cold, sterile world where when we die, we die.  Something like the proof I'm looking for would blow the lid off my life.  In a good way).

Is there anybody here who could help me?  I'm willing to try everything I can on my end to make this work.  Anybody? [?]

I used to be heavily into OBE/AD/Energy work for awhile, but then during meditation one time, something occurred to me.  I was doing a lot of things in my life and living a certain way which was contrary to everything that I was trying to accomplish.  I realized that in order to pursue this seriously, I couldn't just make it a hobby and hope that I got OBE someday.  I believe that it has to be a way of life.  You can't be in conflict with "the flow" of things, if that makes any sense.

So after that realization, I didn't know if I wanted to dedicate myself to an entire new way of life.  So I gave up OBE/etc. instead to find out what I wanted to do with myself.  Then after much thought, I realized that my goal isn't OBE, my goal is finding a state of being, of which OBE/etc. is a side effect.  It's weird how you can feel that you know something is so correct and right, but you can still turn your back on it.

(New Year's provides a perfect starting over point.)

Anyway, has anybody else found their way of life to be in conflict with their OBE research/etc.?  Or am I reading too much into this.  It's just that I can feel, almost smell the way things are supposed to be, and I can sense what is and isn't in line with that.  Does that make any sense, or am I just crazy?

In any event, it's great to see the forum is still in heavy use, and I look forward to working with everybody again.

The other night while I was meditating a thought train popped into my head.  It's somewhat verbose, so please be patient.

If the astral plane is supposedly the place we go to when we die, and supposedly the place we came from before we were born, it's safe to assume that we've spent a fair amount of time there that we can't remember.  So if we've already been there, I'm guessing we're here in the physical world for a reason, whatever that reason may be.

Anyway.  Given the assumption that we've already been in the astral plane and are going to go back, doesn't it stand to reason that there's a substantial purpose to us being here on earth?  That is, shouldn't we be concentrating on the here and now, instead of trying to get back to the place that we came from/are going to?

To avoid drawing this out into a rambling, I'll boil this down into 3 questions :

1) Doesn't it seem that we have a purpose here?  And that since we've come from, and are going back to the astral plane, that we should concentrate our efforts on earthly matters as opposed to trying to go back where we came from?

2) If you HAVE gone OBE, has anybody ever remembered things from past lives, past experiences, anything at all?  I can understand us not being able to remember past lives, etc. while we're in the physical world, but it seems like we'd have a reconnect when we went back to the AP.  (Kind of like that episode of Quantum Leap where he accidentally leaped home and remembered all of the home stuff that he couldn't remember while he was leaping around.)  If you haven't remembered anything, doesn't it seem that us completely forgetting everything as we go from life to life, and everything inbetween would be a huge hinderance to the learning process?

3) If you HAVE gone OBE, AND have a spirit guide, have they ever mentioned anything about this?  As in, "What the hell are you doing back here in the AP?  Get back in your body and learn, damnit!".  Why are they bothering to teach you things now?  Couldn't it wait until you're dead and back in the AP?  Couldn't you have learned up on things in the AP before you came to Earth?  Or does it all come back to the "We forget everything in transition" problem?


Does any of this make sense?  Sorry for the long rambling, it's just a difficult thing to get into words.

I've run across an annoying problem while I've been meditating lately.  Quite often when I'm in full trance, and doing fine, I think I start to get my real time vision.  It blurs in and out, then I finally get a fix on it.  It's only then, that I realize that my eyes are physically opening while i'm meditating.  (They get all dry, and when I think I'm having my vision, I physically notice that my eyes are open a bit)

Has anybody else had this?  Does anybody have any suggestions?  I've tried clothing, etc. covering my eyes, but that really screws up my concentration, and energy development for some reason.  Is it even possible to OBE with your eyes open?

Yesterday my wife's cat died, and it got me to thinking.  I read in RB's book that he's occasionally seen an animal or 2 in the real time zone, and that they can project.  I've also read accounts of people visiting dead relatives, etc. in the AP.  But I've never seen an account of somebody seeing a dead pet/animal in the AP.  Has anybody ever heard of this?  Has anybody ever experienced it?

Last night, I woke up half way, and thought I'd try for an OBE again (Have yet to have one).  I got up the vibrations, the ringing in my ears, started seeing flashes of light, I was well on my way, I think.  But then an overwhelming sense of fear came over me.  Not the usual kind of fears like "Can I get back into my body", or any one specific fear.  But rather, a sense of dread.  A feeling like "You should NOT be doing this."  I was actually genuninely scared.  And that's fairly unusual for me.

Has anybody else ever had that sense of something's wrong?  That maybe it would be better to try for an OBE later?  Or maybe that something really, really bad is waiting for you on the other side?  I've read about people having run ins with negs, etc.  And I wonder if maybe you can sense that they are there before you get OB?

Woah, easy there guys, no need to get uptight about this.

Goingslow Wrote :
>No big offense to you Grendel but why would anyone here have to
prove it to you?

AND

>It just strikes me as a little weird to tell people here you'd like for someone to prove it to you.

Nobody here has to prove anything to me.  I'm not demanding anything at all.  I'm sorry if it came across as such.


Frank Wrote :
>I live in Surrey, England. That then gives you a general idea of where I am. On my desk in my study are several objects. You will be able to see them from the window. Describe them for me please

I wasn't expecting anybody to be able to do anything from the post I had given. After re-reading it, I don't think I ever made that inference either.  Hence the prefix "For Example:"  I was asking if anybody would be interested in helping me out, and was just giving an example of what I thought would be a possiblity.  I was open to any other ideas.  My hope was that there would be somebody here who would respond with something besides a hostile and/or belittling post.


Goingslow Also Wrote :

>But either way this type of proof will probably not convince you anyway...

What on earth is that determination based on? [V]


Apparently you guys thought I was throwing down some kind of gauntlet, challenging everybody to prove their beliefs to me.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I never issued a challenge, I was only asking questions.  I gave an EXAMPLE of what maybe somebody could try.

Grendel Wrote :
"Is there anybody here who could help me? I'm willing to try everything I can on my end to make this work."

I really fail to see where I miscommunicated my intentions on this.  I'm sorry I upset so many people with a seemingly innocuous posting.
At the risk of angering people even more, I'll try and clarify my point :

On second thought, no I won't.  I gave it my shot to see if somebody would be willing to work with me and/or help me with this, but apparently that was the wrong thing to do.

Goingslow Also Wrote :
>A lot of people here have mathematical or scientific minds in the physical. That doesnt make you different from a lot of the people who study this type of thing.

Did I ever, at any point, say that it made me different?  I never said that you people don't have scientific minds, did I?  I was hoping that maybe somebody who also had the same view of the world that I do might have been able to help me understand.  Maybe somebody who had to overcome the same kind of hurdles that I'm facing.

I'm sorry that this isn't the appropriate forum for asking for help.  My mistake entirely.  I truly hope with all my might that you guys are all right (Actually, I guess this is a lose-lose situation for me.  If you guys are right, then I'm wrong.  If I'm right, and we just blink out when we die, then nobody will ever know).  I wish you all the best of luck in your research.

(PS - I am leaving this forum.  Any responses for me will not reach their intended target, so save your breath.)

I just don't see why it would be impossible.  I mean, my perceptions should have no impact on somebody else's abilities in the OBE world, should they?  I read all the time about tests people do with themselves where they leave a card out, then try and read it when they are OB.  What would make it so much more difficult to read a card that somebody else left out instead?  Is it the fact that you need to know exactly where it is?  What is it?  (I'm not doubting you here, I'm just honestly wanting to learn more about this, and the reasonings behind it).

It sounds like your "jerks" are myoclonic (or hypnagogic) jerks.  This is where your body is going into the sleep stage, and for whatever reason, your body reacts to something and "jerks" you awake.  Quite often it's associated with an image that you're playing in your head, like falling or doing something.  (My most recent one was when I was sliding into 2nd base.)

This leads to a common question of mine... If somebody is already having a problem (Be it psychosis, depression, you name it), do they still have that problem while they are projecting?  Or are they free of it?  If it truly was OBE wouldn't they be "sane" while they were out of body?

This all being said, has anybody ever had contact with the dead who they DON'T know?  That is, has anybody ever run into a newly dead person who is wandering around the RTZ confused or anything?  Or tried to help any of them figure out what's going on, or communicate with their famillies or anything?  If I ever get OB, I can see myself doing that kind of thing on a fairly regular basis.  Death is a huge thing, and it would be great if we could help people who have just gone through it, both the living and the dead.

[Originally posted by jilola:]

quote:Originally posted by jilola:

Another way of putting it is: You go to another country to study. Every now and then you contact home and every now and then yoiu even visit home even though your studies won't be over for years.

2cents

jouni

True, but that would be given that you remember and miss things back home.  If you didn't have any memory at all of where you came from, would you be as inclined to call and visit?

But you do make a good point.  Perhaps we got SO used to the AP, etc. that we're meant to see it from a different point of view, and appreciate it for what it is again.  I guess I'm just having a hard time with the whole placement of AP in the scheme of life/things/etc.  You know?

I've suffered with Night Terrors my entire life.  (I'm almost 30 now.)  Most night terrors are suffered by children, but there are a small percentage of adults who have them.  Night Terrors are not nightmares.  When they study people who have night terrors, they realize that the people aren't dreaming, they aren't in REM sleep  (As they are during OBE's).  Most night terrors will be brief, and you won't even remember them.  Only a sleeping partner will tell you about them.  But for those of us who DO wake up with them, you can't describe how bad it is.

Now matter how afraid you have ever been in your life while you were awake or asleep, no matter how bad of a nightmare you've ever had, it's nothing compared to night terrors.  They are generally classified into two groups.  (Intrestingly enough, the content of night terrors is generally universal.)  A) Bugs/Snakes/Spiders/etc. all over you, or in your room, or some sort of thing.  Generally frightening and disheartening, but still not that bad, especially when compared to B) Death/Doom scenario.  I really can't explain how bad it is, but you don't see anything scary, you don't hear anything scary, you just FEEL it.  Sometimes you will think of it as being manifested in a being, but not always.  I won't bother trying to explain it.  You can't.

astralc : It sounds like maybe your friends actually had a different disorder, where the body fails to properly paralyze itself before going to REM sleep.  The result is, the brain is telling the body to do things, and the body's reacting to it.  Hence the variance in actions, diving for balls, yelling, etc.  Much different from night terrors.  Maybe they had both, who knows.


If anybody is interested in learning more about Night Terrors, research, people who have it, etc., they should check out NightTerrors.org.

[Originally posted by Mankind:]

quote:Originally posted by Mankind:
I hate the argument: "You shouldn't OBE because you should focus on physical matters."  OF COURSE no one here is arguing that anyone should ignore their physical lives.  But if OBE were against natural laws, then we couldn't do it. In fact, I believe the ability to OBE may be the cutting edge to the next stage of evolution. Hell, if more people would OBE, maybe the world wouldn't be in it's current psychotic state!

I never said that we shouldn't OBE.  I'm just saying that given the assumption that we've already been to the AP, and the assumption that we're going back when we die, it seems like we've already spent a good deal of time there.  And given that, it logically doesn't make sense that we'd learn anything new by going back.  (Other than the fact that AP exists, etc.  We'd just be RELEARNING things we previously knew.)

Look at it this way :  Let's say you're an astronaut.  And we know there's a planet of people-like beings that we want to investigate.  However, instead of sending you down knowing everything you know now, we send you down without your memory, and have you integrate completely with the people.  Then after a period of time, we'd bring you back and study you, revive your memory, etc.  But while you're on the planet, thinking that you actually ARE one of them, you get into their space program, and become an astronaut, and end up travelling back to Earth to investigate us.  

You came from Earth, you are going to go back to Earth, and you learned everything you needed to up to that point while you were on Earth.  And you'd keep learning when you went back.  But by travelling back to Earth to investigate us as part of their space program, you're screwing everything up.  And you think you're learning all this cool new stuff about Earth, and our solar system, etc., but in reality you're just RELEARNING things you already knew quite well.

I know that's a far fetched explanation, but it's as good as I can get trying to compare OBE to something.  I'm all for OBE, and I'm going to keep trying for them for quite awhile I'm guessing.  But I was just thinking that logically it doesn't make any sense.  If we've been there, and we're going back, are we defeating the point of us being HERE by trying to go back early?

Just a thought.

Introspective
Sensitive
Reflective

Given the design that's associated with it, I'm not all together surprised that the majority of people from an OBE study site would pick that.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

I have 2 problems with this "Method".

1) My wife thinks I'm weird enough for believing this stuff as it is.  If she comes home and I'm holding my breath until I pass out so I can reach a trance state, that would probably be the end of it all together.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

2) I can see a prime opportunity to have numerous hallucinations from depriving yourself of oxygen.  People (Myself included) would have a hard time telling if they were actually going OBE/clairvoyant/etc. or are just experiencing side effects of oxygen deprivation.  I wouldn't be able to trust my experiences.

And just out of curiosity, you quoted some key elements of your original posting.  Like "it should feels like you are passing-out" and "got to feel the air in the brain".  Are you quoting from a source?  If so I'd love to know/read the source on this.

I'm not sure if I'm hearing energy, but I have a constant ringing in my ears (I think that's actually tenitis (sp?), I used to be in a band.)  But when I do my energy work/meditation/etc., the ringing in my ears becomes louder and much more distinct.  So I wonder if maybe we're just tuning into sounds of our body, as we become more aware of things?  Maybe the wooshing could be a bodily process like blood flow that we just aren't aware of normally?

Just a thought.

I saw an ad for her recently.  Man, that has to be the easiest gig in the world.  I mean, regular psychics have to be at least partially accurate a good percentage of the time.  But a pet psychic?  You can say whatever you want, and who's going to be able to refute it?   I can take your dog and say "The dog's feeling a little sad, and left out of things..."  How are you going to prove to me that he isn't?  Next time I see an job opening in the paper for a pet psychic, I'm taking it.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

I ended up doing some transferring of debt from place to place, just so that I could cut up my credit cards.  I was losing 21% apr on them!  So after the dust settled, I now have $140,000 mortgage, about $28,000 in student loans, and a big pile of cut up credit cards.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

My Mom actually makes it and sells it.  I've heard people claim that it heals everything from cuts and burns to cancer.  I've really never seen it work though.  I've read a few things that say any effect that people see is purely a placebo effect.  And in a few rare cases, it can actually HURT you.  (One woman after using it in a nasal spray, eventually started to turn silvery colored, due to silver deposits in her system.  There's actually a name for the condition, which I currently forget.)

In any event, here's a link to some info on it.  It's pretty slanted against it, but it has many useful references.  Hope this helps.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html

My understanding is that hypnogogic imagery is different from real time sight, which is different from astral sight.  Hypnogogic imagery is your physical brain flashing brief images, just random things.  Real time sight is viewing the "Real time zone", Astral sight is viewing the astral plains/higher levels, both without having an OBE.

I believe they are both related to the brow chakra, but I'm not 100% on that.

Who knows, maybe yours are more intense than mine.  The only reason I can only handle them for a minute is because it wears me out self-inducing them.  The rush itself is bearable.  Maybe I'm just used to it, or maybe mine aren't as severe, kind of hard to judge these things.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>  In any event, aside from the physical body trembling, it helps snap/force me into a trance/meditative state if I hold it long enough.  And the more I do it, the deeper I go.  It almost feels like I'm trying to forcefully eject myself into an OBE, if that makes sense?

I've been using it instead of my regular energy work lately, because the rush is so much, that it permeates my entire body, so it seems like a moot point to do energy work on an area that already feels like it's about to blow up, you know?

The weirdest part is, it just happened one day.  I was waiting for my wife in a bookstore, before I knew anything about OBE, and saw a book about it and started reading it.  Right when I got to the part about vibrations, that's when I first felt it, like a bolt of energy through my back.  Kind of scary at first.  But then I realized I could control it, so I just thought it was kind of fun.  It wasn't until later that I read AD and realized that it might be something functional as well.  I'm just worried I'm going to blow a gasket or something with all the energy flow.  Let me know if you end up being able to change yours/stand it longer.  I'm curious to see if either one of us can get some true functionality out of it.

It's hard to explain how I induce it.  It's kind of like if you were doing a body awareness, or energy work exercise.  Except, all I have to do is give it half a thought, and it's like there's a huge chakra or something that opened in the middle of my upper back (But under the skin, like in my spine almost).  And it swells with energy and throws my whole body into a vibration state/buzz.  I can hold it for up to a minute, but then I have to let it go.  It's getting better with practice though.  But I don't know if it's something I even SHOULD be practicing.  Could it be something that's hurting anything?  I'm not even 100% sure what it is.

(And are you going to share last night's experiences?  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>)

Just out of curiosity, can you control this surge at all?  I'm not talking about stopping it when it comes on (I can't stop it either), but actually trying to induce it?  The last day or so I've tried going with it instead of fighting it.  I bring it on, just like energy work, and I keep bringing it on.  I keep raising the level bit by bit.  It's kind of like working a muscle though, I can only raise it so much, then I have to relax a second.  But I can raise it pretty high.  By body shakes a little, but I just keep raising it.

Not sure if it's helping anything, but I think it is.  Maybe something you can try with it.  (If you can't beat it, join it)

I was curious, because I have the same "problem" I think.  At any point during the day, when I think about it, I can raise a huge level of energy in my body.  It starts in my back/chest and flows up to my head.  It's so much that it almost paralyzes me.  It doesn't hurt, it's just a LOT.  It's almost as if I was doing the Mind Body Awareness from AD, and it went horribly wrong (Or right for that matter)  It's the same buzzing as MBA/energy work, but it's just amplified 1000 times.

The problem is that when I'm meditating, etc.  When I start to get my vibrations, I get the same huge rushes of energy, except this time it's involuntary.  My whole physical body tenses up with them, and almost trembles slightly.  It's hard to explain.  Takes me right out of any trance I have going though.

Does that sound anything like what's happening with you?