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[Lucid Dreams Are OBE Launch Pads | Joint Efforts Increase Success Rates Scientific Experiment Version 1.1]

Lucid Dreams Are OBE Launch Pads | Joint Efforts Increase Success Rates Scientific Experiment Version 1.1

Observations

I have observed several times now that lucid dreams make effective, near-effortless, and practical launch pads for OBE.

I.                    Become lucid in the dream state

II.                 Clearly establish lucidity and self-awareness; staring at the hands helps

III.               Using the dream hands and arms as leads, roll to the side and out of the body (but apparently any movement, spinning, sitting up, etc., will do)

I have also observed that when working to assist or lead/motivate others my success rate at reaching an altered state is higher.

IV.              Create a space and/or scenario to allow for mutually progressive yet flexible joint practice and experimentation (this publication is part of this)

V.                 Clearly encourage the option of mutual sharing of experiences and results, which should accelerate the development and progression of all involved (I encourage you to share your experiences and results by posting them on the message board, as everyone should progress faster and surer- we'll all have more info/data to work with, and more support to work with)

Variations
Becoming aware in a semi-sleep/semi-dream state is also effective. I've once become aware in the morning before fully awakening from sleep. I became aware to the perception of hazy semi-dream visual phenomenon, and simply moved to cause displacement from the physical body. I've also a few times remained aware enough while going into sleep (or into meditation or relaxation or OBE practice) and perceived the visual phenomena forming, and after the visual phenomena was semi-dream-like I moved to complete displacement

Hypotheses

Hypotheses: The reason dreams work as launch pads for OBE is because during dreams the disconnection of the nonphysical body from the physical body has already occurred. Since the disconnection has already occurred, the only thing necessary to displace or make distance between the physical and nonphysical bodies is to move. Becoming lucid in the dream enables the conscious awareness necessary to do conscious movement away from the physical body.

Extensions
The imagery (visual phenomenon associate with deep meditation and semi sleep states) is a pre-dream phenomenon. If aware of imagery while going into sleep or while waking from sleep, relaxing and focusing into the imagery would start it back to deepening towards a dream (towards another disconnection from the physical body). When the imagery is deep enough (to a semi-dream to dream degree of depth), one can simply carry on just as would be done if one had become aware in the middle of a dream- by moving. (In the case of becoming aware in a semi-sleep state, attempting to stare at dreams hands for stabilization of state may be unnecessary.) The only difference in this scenario would be that you watched as the dream took form or caught it as the dream was ending.

Prediction

Prediction: I predict that continued use of lucid dreams as OBE launch pads develops the ability to OBE from waking. I hypothesize that this occurs due to the natural effect of becoming habitually aware in deeper states of consciousness (lucid dreams. Since the lucid dreams are used as launch pads to OBEs, this means one will practice being habitually aware while out of the body and during pre- and post-OBE states. Thus, eventually awareness will habitually continue lucid upon going to sleep, rather than necessitating becoming aware after already asleep. Retaining awareness would thus regularly and eventually always allow the option of taking advantage of semi-dream and dream states directly, from the waking state.

Experiment

Experiment:

**Regularly practice lucid dream producing exercises to foster lucidity in the primary experimental state (lucid dream) or one of the variation experimental states (pre-dream, post-dream, or deep meditative):

A) Regularly stare at hands throughout the day, or do any other actions or queues that you may habitually do (or make a habit to do) as a test for lucidity and to discover whether you are waking or dreaming

B) Regularly question whether you are dreaming or awake, and do so with conviction and sincerity

C) Keep detailed dream journals to help develop dream recall, and thus dream lucidity

D) Practice remaining aware and focused during the day, so a habit of awareness can be formed that carries over into the dream state

E) Staring at the hands during the dream while consciously centering awareness and focus, and asserting the goal of moving away from the physical body, stabilizes lucidity and supports projection-readiness

F) Use each lucid dream state as launch pad for OBE, moving past the dream by displacing away from the physical body within ten seconds of becoming lucid, so as to not to miss the opportunity- which would still allow ten seconds to explore the lucid dream if desired (This time duration can be decreased accordingly if losing lucidity or losing the dream state is an issue for you; this time duration can be increased accordingly if you can maintain dreams and lucidity well)

G) Make detailed notes of each days' dream lucidity level so as to track progress – 1 (completely dreaming) to 10 (fully to super lucid)

H) Remember that since lucid dreams are being used as an OBE launch pad, increases in dream lucidity, dream strength, and lucidity frequency increases OBE frequency; and perhaps OBE lucidity and OBE strength also

I) Regularly practice some form of meditation: (A suggested method is to do rhythmic breathing meditations)

J) Practice imagining and visualizing staring at the hands upon going to sleep, to foster either remaining conscious into or regaining consciousness when coming out of a variation experimental state, or to help in remembering to become lucid and stare at the hands for stabilization during the primary experimental state

**Organize the experiment's information and parameters in a practical way and make freely and widely available to allow as wide a joint-experimental base as possible (This publication is fulfillment of this). Record as much data as possible from (all) experiments:

A) First make a control: What is your success rate now?

B) Keep track of your progress! : This will illustrate how your skill level increases if it does

C) Please post your results, statistics, journals, and/or whatever else you would like to share, right on your respective message board – Everyone will benefit by learning from everyone and inspiring and supporting everyone

D) Be patient and consistent!

E) Check back often for updates to the experiment outline (Version #)

___ ______________

Supporting Quotes from Literature

"When natural sleep projection occurs, the real-time body drifts out of its physical body and hovers just above it, often mimicking its sleeping position." Astral Dynamics, p 277, 1999

"People have told me that they can see the aura of their partners while these people are asleep. Actually, they are not seeing the aura at all, even though it looks as if they are. What they are seeing is the astral double, which moves very slightly out of the body in sleep. In the dream state, the astral body often moves right out of the physical body and floats ten or twelve inches above it (6)... The astral body often floats above the physical body in the dream state (7)." Astral Travel for Beginners, pp 6, 7, 2002

* If you have additional supporting quotes or supporting personal experience please post them~
_ _____________________

** Potential future experimental subject: Does remaining habitually aware naturally develop the ability to cause pre-OBE, OBE, and post-OBE states, rather than having to wait for them to come?

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050905/handlight.html

I made a post, and when I went to post it, the spelling cow check came on.

I wrote the word "hypnagogic" in the post, and the spell-check distinguished it as wrong, and suggested the word: "spongecake" to substitute.



LOL

Hey all...

I had an experience with a psychic vampire, a lady I used to work with. She displayed her tendencies the moment we met, trying to get me to make inappropriate use of company property for her.

Then perhaps months later she made some comment I took as trying to get me to prove something to her or something. I didn't take her bait. She got angry. She got quiet. Without me paying attention to it at the moment, I started feeling very sleepy. My eyes started drooping, I was slumped in my chair, and I couldn't concentrate. She left as her shift ended before mine. A bit after she left I felt invigorated with energy again.

The next day she came in bragging about the writing she did while she was gone. I was much into writing at the time, and she bragged about how she wrote something and it's going to make it big and she 'got it off me'. Several times she specifically said, "and I got it off you", or something to that effect. I saw it to mean when she drained my energy, she somehow accentuated her writing ability since I write. I remember reading of people passing energy amongst each other, and then getting the cravings that are trademark of the other. Or perhaps because that is a skill she admired in me that is where she focused the energy she stole. Either way, I also know and knew that such an embellishment is short-lived.

Fortunately I was reading up on the book "Psychic Vampires" by Joe Slate. The next day I started experimenting with one of his procedures, using this scenario as a testing ground, a procedure he teaches to stop an attack immediately. It is to form a ring with the thumb and middle fingers. Do this on both hands. Then interlock these rings. Now, while with this hand gesture, imagine a radiant field or shield of energy surrounding you like a spherical halo, protecting and containing you.

A bit after she started her energy drain thing again I did this. Immediately she reacted. (At the time she sat on the other side of the cubicle wall from me.) She shuffled in her seat, and started looking over the cubicle wall trying to see what I was doing. She seemed questioning and a bit confused. Perhaps she never had a 'victim' who was able to offset her actions, or who was aware of what she was doing.

Before I started this procedure I tangibly felt the drain of energy going over the wall from my head, and I felt the deleterious effects like sleepiness and slouch-i-ness coming on. Immediately at doing this technique the energy drain stopped. My energy stopped being drained and I could feel the field protecting me. She was greatly disturbed, peeking over the wall trying to find out what was going on, and she seemed confused.

This alerted me to the fact that, however she discovered it, she knew what she was doing. Obviously she knew, and then she knew that I knew, and vice versa. We passed this look at each other that told it.

I started sitting farther away from her (nice and far), and now from afar she would give me that "I know, you know, I know that you know, and you know that I know" look- I know I gave it too. I gave it each time I sat elsewhere than where I used to sit everyday. Soon she stopped the thought of trying to vampire me. The looks of knowing ceased to pass between us.

I felt a bit violated, but I looked towards the positive and thought that it is good that I was able to gather some empirical knowledge on the matter. I guess, perhaps, I wondered still if it's all 'real'. That series of events put many coins in the "it's real, and this stuff really happens" slot. And I learned that the techniques and ideas in Joe Slate's "Psychic Vampires" are practical and effective, and that we do have the power to protect and nurture our energy.

________

Do you have any psychic vampire experiences to share??

Any suggestions, ideas, assistance are welcome..

What are your ideas for me to project farther, more often, more strongly, etc..

10/10/05 – 114 – I lay and relax. I had awareness of my left arm/elbow as if it was through the floor and through my body. I waved my left nonphysical elbow through the floor and outstretched my right nonphysical arm and waved it around a bit.

10/12/05 – 115 – I went to sleep at 1 AM. I awoke by alarm at 6:30 AM and went back to sleep immediately after I reset the alarm to 11:30 AM. Immediately before the alarm came on I became aware of hazy, hazy perceptions signifying awareness in theta. I put my nonphysical self into spin and spun over and over in place like a log rolling in place on water. After a bit I maneuvered myself into an upright sitting position, consciously aware of my out-of-body state. My vision was extra hazy. My alarm came on moments later and I felt as if I was lying down again.

P.S. At 1 AM I went to sleep focusing on my mouth, chanting mentally stuff like "my mouth/jaw stays/remains relaxed during sleep" while relaxing my face/jaw (in an attempt to offset grinding my teeth) – I slept on my stomach to start

10/30/05 – 116 – I had several days' sleep deficit working overtime at work. I lay for sleep and gave up everything but forgiveness. I forgave my physical body for being sleepy and needing sleep, etc. I had many vivid dreams, became lucid, and decided to fly and explore for just a moment. I then looked at my hands and rolled to the side in an attempt to roll out of body. I'm not sure how far distant I got from my physical body as I went straight back to sleep. I may not have fully displaced but I got some kind of conscious separation.

(In a previous but recent experience- the first time I gave up everything including OBE for God- that night I had an easy OBE. It seems it wasn't long after falling asleep- if I completely fell asleep. If I recall I log rolled in place before displacing.)

[our]

Hey all. First of all, I know this post may be a bit long but I'm sure it's worth it. Please be sure to read it completely, and to check back onto this thread, for my further comments/questions and those of others, and to share your wealth of thoughts and ideas. I'd love your responses, advice, answers, collaborations, and info.

I'm in the process of reading through all of the posts here that mention ascension, using search. What I've noticed that I find pertinent is that in the book The White Book, by Ramtha as channeled by author JZ Knight, Ramtha apparently uses very frequent OBE to ascend. He first projected during meditation. He was contemplating the wind, wanting to be free like the wind, and spontaneously went out-of-body. Then after two years of intense desire, effort, and determination he learned to go out-of-body in conjunction with sleep (!), to the point of mastery, so that he was able to literally project at will- like from being in-body now, then the next moment out-of-body wherever he wanted to be, with no preparation. Then his body started to glow after more and more of this. His body was becoming lighter. His vibrations were increasing. And then finally he willed himself somewhere, and instead of leaving his body and going there he went physical body and all. He went to the moon. Then he was able to do this repeatedly around 60 times, going back and forth to the moon making sure he had it right and established. Thus he was successfully ascended. He went to the people of his society and broke the news down to them, levitated into the air before them to prove it, and then he took his physical body into the higher dimensions for like 35,000 years of earth years, coming back now to channel through Knight.

I read the account of his ascension several times, and the mechanics of it seem convincing to me. We've for instance experienced the vibrations and quickening of energy as a part of OBE. And others and myself have experienced healing as a result of the energies of trance and OBE or OBE related states.

What are your thoughts on this? What are your thoughts on Ramtha/JZ Knight?? Reading the above condensation of his apparent ascension, does it seem plausible to you? Does (frequent) OBE lead to ascension? Do you think it could? Please share your thoughts, based on the above, on your own experiences or studies, either/or/etcetera.

And what about the other people mentioning or teaching ascension? We have Bob Frissell, and Joshua David Stone, and Drunvalo Melchizedek, and others- even JZ Knight herself. Why aren't they levitating and disappearing like Ramtha apparently did, or like the skill of ascension and such should allow you (and thus them) to do?? For instance, most people who write about learning OBE write from some degree of experience, and have journals in their books or online to show for themselves, etc. Why have I or we not seen or heard of anyone from today's world who teach ascension having any observable, reportable, or repeatable ascension-type experiences?? (If you have, please inform us?!)

People reading the websites or the books of OBE writers and using their techniques have OBEs or OBE-type experiences (depending on whether you believe OBE is real or not). But what teachers of ascension are demonstrating ascension-type skills, abilities, ways of doing things, or powers? Why aren't they demonstrating these things? Or how many of their students are demonstrating these things, or able to do these things?

I'll never forget when I met this guy online who within the first 5 minutes of meeting him through chat, he rambles on about how he can teleport and do this and that. He did this with me, and with everyone I ever introduced him to or saw him introduced to. And all through chat he goes on about how he can teleport and do this and that and this and that. Then one day I was like, "Well, teleport to me right now." All of a sudden it's like some, "No, I can't do that," as if suddenly there's some sanctity air about him, as if suddenly then he's not into making teleportation into some parlor trick, or into having to prove himself or something that that. Doh!! Then why do you ramble on and on about how you can do it then?? If such a respect or sanctity tip is his thing, he wouldn't be rambling on about it all the time- unless he only wants someone to believe he can do it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not putting they guy down. He's nice and cool. And I am very personally familiar with how we try to make ourselves out to have more abilities than we actually do, seeking attention, or acceptance, or love, and so forth. I'm not trying to put him down. The point is, since they are all in effect rambling on about it and/or 'teaching' it, how or why cannot they do it or demonstrate it?? If they can ramble on it and/or teach it, why can't they demonstrate it? We even take a car out for a test drive, or squeeze and inspect our fruits and vegetables before buying them. Why should we have to take these things on faith or belief when they are rambling on about them or 'teaching' them? In science class they have experiments to test or demonstrate properties or laws of things, right?

Ramtha supposedly levitating before his people to show them would be akin to Drunvalo Melchizedek or Joshua Stone levitating before their seminar crowd, or on the corner of their neighborhood. I can't single out Frissell in this matter. He doesn't seem to claim to do it, but just shares ideas. Drunvalo claims to be or is billed to be some 10th or so dimension master reincarnate or something.

And why do so many (ok, as far as I can tell ALL), of these ascension-promoting, not-attached-to-this-world, immortalist, 'humanitarian' people charge so much money (or any money at all) for their stuff? JZ Knight, Drunvalo, Orr.. Why don't they share their information freely and for free, make their physical body disappear so they don't need to worry about food and stuff, and just appear to teach a class or something when desired or necessary, like Gary Renard's ascended masters do?? (More on this in a bit.) How can they teach us ascension when they themselves are in the rat race like us? But instead of working a 9-5 they get our money through books and seminars and stuff.

One of my interests in ascension is in part because frankly I intend to be through with the 'littleness' of regular life, having to walk or drive or plane everywhere for instance, having to succumb to sleep losing your conscious awareness and wasting time in unconsciousness or partial consciousness (that is if you haven't reached 24/7 awareness). I would feel so much freer were I able to disappear at will and not have to work a 9-5 anymore, or eat anymore, or have to worry about caring for my physical body, and all of the other encumbrances of having a physical body in the 'normal' way, like having to protect it from heat and cold and such. It's so tedious. BUT...

I'd like to make clear that I don't see ascension as the end to all, for I'm learning through The Disappearance of the Universe and A Course in Miracles that this is all a dream or illusion, and nothing here, no philosophy or ability, can give freedom from here (this world, or universe, etc.), being a part of the overall system itself. They ascended beyond the universe itself, and beyond all form.

The guy who wrote The Disappearance of the Universe met two ascended masters, who could appear and disappear at will, and even take him with them. Their skill as he describes it met or surpasses that as described of Ramtha, but they were described as also absolutely free of the cycle of birth and death, and very literally and truly recognized all of this world and universe as a dream. They had to forgive the world, and basically give up their individuality to do it, which I'm sure scares at least most of us. They don't term it as a loss or sacrifice though, but that this  isn't our true identity and all of this isn't real to begin with.

Anyone here into The Disappearance of the Universe (DU), and/or A Course in Miracles (ACIM)?? What are your thoughts on ascension, and OBE in relation to ascension, and how that could help/hinder graduation through the Course??

I believe reaching ascension as per Ramtha could allow more time of the same personality to master ACIM, rather than being reincarnated again and again. The ascended masters in DU had like 20 lifetimes before they ascended as per the ACIM methodology. I figure that the first years of an incarnation is getting back into the swing of where you were or are, and if you didn't have to waste the first years of your life re-finding 'the path' or your relative place on it, it would be easier and faster. Or perhaps you never really leave the path but are guided subconsciously by what you learned before?? Again, your thoughts please?

And Hephaestus..
You mentioned in one of the posts I found that mention ascension:

Any book that mentions ascension i'm willing to give a read, my ultimate aim of life is to ascend beyond the boundaries of the universe itself.

This would confirm that our intentions are very closely aligned. I would like to communicate with you more closely. Perhaps we can help each other advance more rapidly. What do you think? If you still pass through, please reply..

I was a bit afraid at first to open this topic, for several reasons, for one thinking that maybe stuff like ascension aren't supposed to be spoken of commonly or you might in some way ruin or impede your 'chances' at it. It even brought up lingering (though steadily diminishing) shadow [Stuart Wilde - http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/wilde-shadow.ram ] elitist thoughts of wanting to be better than or above others and not wanting to ruin my chances to be. (If everyone's special, then who's special?) Forgive me. I guess that's so silly of me. At one point OBE was considered some elitist arcane unspeakable thing, only for the 'elite' and 'initiated' and taking days of preparation and all kinds of 'only facing north on the full moon you must be a member of my secret sect or be my devout devotee and worship me' kind of stuff. Now we recognize that OBE is a natural phenomenon everyone experiences, if only unconsciously as a part of sleep. And it's easily recognizable that we can all progress faster through cross-validation, cross-research, and collaboration- and we can produce consensual validation- i.e. if you think I'm deluding myself, please in detail let me know!! Seeing and reading others' posts and sharing on ascension helped open me up and loosen up my fears/defenses.

Ok. This is it for now. I'm not through reading the archived posts mentioning ascension, and I'm (as we all are) still learning. I'll revisit this thread in the future to continue to share and collaborate, and to respond and interact further. Please keep your eyes out for this thread and share all you can. Now and in the future I welcome and encourage your thoughts, input, and ideas on these matters. And if you have or intend to progress with any of the above, please post me/us and keep me/us posted on your progress, and with what is helping you the most.

Thank you.
.

Has anyone ever thought of projecting to The Monroe Institute (TMI) and interacting with the people in the program? Has anyone every done this?

Hello.

Have you found or have reason to believe there are different forms of OBE? I believe there are different forms of OBE. I'm not sure what the differences are. It may be a matter of different densities of nonphysical body, or the kind or type or amount of matter projected.

I've projected before by focusing on one thing, and my nonphysical self would seem rather flimsy or like something that is rather two-dimensional. But when projecting by relaxing into sleep or something like this, it is usally more dense and heavy, and physical like. The other way seems more like a kind of tangible illusion, while the heavy one is somewhat almost physical-like.

Please input on this, even something small.

Hey all. I've spent some time reading and I enjoy the members and atmosphere here. There are several great projectors here, and so many people are so knowledgeable and experienced and sharing of the same. I feel it fitting to introduce where I am in my development- some bread and butter of what I've learned thus far, and to voice my desire for assistance and support in my development.

What I've learned thus far is:

-OBEs can be caused from dreams
Several times I've become lucid in a dream, or woke up and went back to sleep, and what I've done usually is look at my dream hands for orientation, and then roll out

-Deep physical relaxation can be very beneficial
It can cause a very easy projection

-Sleep is perhaps essential
Drowsiness or sleepiness has been to some degree essential. I believe OBE happens in the deepest levels of sleep

-Rhythmic breathing helps
Rhythmic breathing practices before or as a start to OBE practice helps, and when done habitually can really help

-Having OBE when waking up from sleep or after having slept some is easier
Like I've read with others here, most of the OBEs I have managed to have occured after I'd been asleep for a while, or upon waking up and going back to sleep, or something like that, rather than going from waking to sleeping

I'm learning that I can really use some support in my development, and I am thankful for any help and assistance you can add. Thank you for all your sharing and openness. Hopefully I can learn to be as helpful and open and sharing as you all are

Peace

Question:

Would you please share how you progressed from only being able to get a few feet away to distance traveling. I believe that it is just a matter of practice and natural development. I would help to have the support of a few, this is how long it took for me to get distance, or this is how I helped the process

Thanks