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In an F1/F4 overly, would it be possible for me to have the impression that I was talking directly to someone, although I was still aware of my physical surroundings and sensations and that the person I was communicating with was nowhere near the vacinity of my physical F1 focus of awareness? (maybe to describe it as talking mind to mind is not exactly the best way to describe such an occurance)

Also, would it be possible that if I were to talk about that part of that person focused here on planet Earth, would it be possible for that person not to  know of the communication, unless he had switched his awareness to F4?

Hello Frank,

I find that your model of consciousness is very user-friendly.  As of late, I have discovered that my mind is not located inside my head as I have usually placed it, but rather it lies elsewhere.  

It is strange to describe, but I believe that you have put it into words as best as possible in describing it as a 180 degree change in focus.  For me it seems that there is a screen "infront" of me that I can fix my awareness upon.   Maybe, more accureately, it is a screen within that I fix my awareness upon.  (something just past my thoughts, although those thoughts may imprint upon that screen)

However, I do have trouble.  I often slip into a dreamstate, when I start to focus on this screen.  I get caught up in those thoughts, which turn into a dream scenario. These dreams are especially intense in the morning when I first wake up and then go back to sleep.  Ocassionally, I will achieve a lucid state, but only momentarilly.  Then, I will fall back into the flow of my dream, without the realization that I am dreaming.  

I know I have posted similar posts before and yet I have still to move beyond my current limitations.  

Often, I will be fully awake and aware of my physical surroundings, yet I will also be aware of the dreamstate thoughts that I am having.  Is this what you would call f1/f2 overlay?  

I find it difficult to reach an f10 state without getting sidetracked into my thoughts and dreams.  Is this a hurdle to overcome or is there something else that I should be doing in order to maintain the f10 state while these dream thoughts are taking up my focus?

I am curious, how does f3 different from f10?  also, do you have any tips on how to avoid slipping into the dreamstate?  I find it so overwhelming,  in that I can not distinquish from dream and reality even though I may be trying to maintain my focus from a waking state to a f10 state.

It was a strange sensation to be looking into the mirror and feel the presence of another in the room with me.  Yet it was not the presence of another being it was the presence of a body that happens to be the point of my focus most of the time.

It just felt so strange being in the room with my body and having this sense that there was someone else in the room with me.  There was this body and then there was me, which is confusing and strange since I have had my awareness held away from this body before and I have never felt anything like this before.

Perhaps, it was the effect of looking into a mirror with the lights dimmed so that I could not make out the features of my body.

But is that the key to all of this phasing stuff?  To dissasociate one's sense of self with this body?  Which can be really hard when you have this body awareness even when you are putting your awareness away from the body.

I understand now what Frank means when he says that our minds are not contained inside of our bodies.  If anything it would seem to me that our brains are at best an elaborate processing unit that is built to quickly analyze and assess the data that is fed through the senses.  It also allows us the ability to program in reactions to that data.  It is not within our brains that we go when we go within ourselves via phasing.  Nor is it within our bodies that we go, although you may take your awareness to a point within your body.  

It is so mind boggling and with my brain always trying to come in and analyze my experiences it makes things even more difficult.  It seems that I am always coloring my experience with this sense of how it relates to my body, and such an awareness immediately draws me back to focusing on my body.  

When I lie down to attempt phasing I run into a brick wall which is my body.  It is lying there filled with sensations.  I can not stop the sensations because it is the job of the body to sense these sensations.  So, I end up lying there trying to dissasociate my self with these sensations and all that ends up happing is me becomming very calm and relaxed for awhile until I become very uncomfortable from not moving.  My awareness is full of the sense of my relaxed body just lying there and I am probably on the edge of monroe's focus 10.  From there I am lost.  

It is almost like there is something elastic tied between my focus and my body.  If I attempted to move it away from my body I am snapped back into it.  For instance, I can move my focus to what is behind me, but the pull of my body awareness makes it difficult for me to keep my focus behind this body for any extended amount of time.  I also lack detail or solidity in focusing away from the body.  It just is not as crisp.  

I have a feeling that I need to peruse the relevant phasing threads once more.  I shall do that, but if anyone has any quick pointers or wishes to share their relevant experiences then I would be most glad for it.

-Nathan

Please feel free to move this thread elsewhere that may be more appropriate.

Frank:

As human beings, we have progressively engaged in more effective belief constructs that hold the promise of getting to "the truth". This is why, over the past couple of hundred years, we have been progressively moving away from the old religious constructs, and adopting what we see as more "valid" constructs pertaining to our physical sciences.

This is why I always chuckle when I hear people talking about science and religion "coming together". They never do come together. In a hundred years time there won't be a religious construct to be seen. Like all the other dinosaurs they'll all be dead and gone.

 It appears that you are a master of jnana yoga.  I also maintain this view of reality.  And what I mean by reality is the same thing that you mean when you say F1.  Basically that we shape F1 with our conceptual frameworks.   Or in other words there is no such thing as a completely objective reality.  Rather, as you have put it, there is only "objective interpretation of the underlying subjective reality."

Being a philosopher and student of religious studies I have naturally been intrigued by the relationship between science and religion.  In fact, I am currently taking a class "Religion and Science" where we are jumping right into the soup.  I only wish that we could include a discussion on Robert Monroe and FoC's in the class.  So, I'll just have to get that fix here.

I am curious...  You chuckle at the idea of science and religion comming together.  I chuckle too, but what if we were talking about science and spirituality comming together?  I think spirituality is a terribly loaded word, but what I mean by it is pretty much what you do with phasing.  For me spirituality is the tearing down of the veil that we have in place between our awareness of areas of consciousness.

Will it also be in 100 years that there will not be a scientific construct to be seen?  

For me the coming together of science and religion is what you have claimed when you say:

"Within 50 years it will all be done and dusted. In about 20 years the science of Physics will prove that all matter is made of the same base material of consciousness."

Is not that the point when / where / how / why science and spirituality come together?  




I also recently posted the following in regards to the "reality" of chakras:

I would not say chakras are real in an ultimate sense. They are a construct that we use to better interract with our precieved reality.

We are using a working theory up until the point where we become aware of Ultimate Reality.

I say this yet I still do not understand why working with a chakra system is helpfull at the present moment if ultimately we are to come to understand that chakras were nothing more than the musings of our collective mind.

Do you have any insight as to an answer to my question of the usefulness of a chakra system?



Also, when I speak of Ultimate Reality, I am speaking of awareness of consciousness beyond all conceptual frameworks.  Is F4 the same thing as my definition of Ultimate Reality or is F4 just another conceptual framework?  Is anything the source of F4?



An inquiring mind that wants to know
-Nathan

Thought I'ld start a side thread so that clair can post her steps uninterrupted.

How much knowledge of the following did you have going into all of this?

Knowledge of Protection , Confirmation signs from guides ,Animal Totems , History of Human Religions , Archangels , Chohans of the Rays , Spiritual Mahatma and Spiritual symbolism in Art such as Tarot Cards is hugely helpful .

What kind of confirmation signs do you get from guides?  I've always wanted confirmation of some sort, but I have no idea on what to ask for.

I think the reason people get tripped up on their ego and think that it is something that they need to rid theirselves of is because they think it is a negative thing.  I have realized that this, at least for me, was due to a poor deffinition and actually a mixing up of deffinitions.  Ego simply is.  It is who you are -- your personality and whatnot.  

I would start to get upset that I had so much ego when I found my self being mean or overly self-centered.  These are just attributes of your ego.  It is not the ego itself that is "negative"  it is rather these attributes that we are having the problem with.  

So, don't think that you have to get rid of your personality.  Ego is a necessary thing and can be negative, indifferent, or positive.  (plus a whole range of things inbetween)   It's just something we use to play in this game and it can be anything we want it to be.

This happens to me alot, where I'll be dreaming and then a guide of some sort will be in my dream, but since I am not aware that I am dreaming I just let them walk away.

I was dreaming that I was in a movie theater watching a movie and there was a lady sitting next to me and next to her there was this guy.  Some how the dream worked out to where this lady was to recieve something.  So the guy playfully made this energy ball and placed it around the lady.  I thought to myself that that was really cool and then i just stayed in my own thoughts and the man got up and left.  Only upon waking did I realize how much he stood out from everything else in my dream and if I had been more lucid, I would have followed after him.

For the past 2 - 3 years I have pretty much been celibate.  Part of that has to do with the fact that I went through a terrible break up and that I moved halfway across the U.S. and another part of it has to do with the fact that I was just extremely nervous around girls and was very not thinking myself to be at a place where I was responsible enough to be in a relationship and another part is that I was seriously trying to follow a spiritual path.

The thing is that these sexual urges don't go away.  I mean, I'm a human being for gee goly's sake.  And now I've spent the past almost 3 years supressing my sexual energy so that I'm at a point where it is locked down most of the time and now and again it just explodes out in an uncontrollable manner.

I guess my main concern is that I've noticed recently that having this energy turned off in a way has had an adverse effect on my energy level.  My problem is how do I get this energy flowing again but yet still be able to control it so I don't find myself having to masturbate 12 times a day...       and more importantly, I don't want to be walking around zapping all the females I come across with that energy and it's really bad when this energy explodes out of me and men are near...  heh, not so comfortable for them either.

Thanks for any input

So, last night I tried to project.  I laid down on my bed.  Relaxed and what not.  I got to the point where I think I'm going to project and then I could not exit.  At some point I loose conciousness.  I wake up and I am sore for spending so much time flat on my back.  My mind is also at a point where it is too tired to want to try and project.  So, I roll over and doze off to sleep.  
At some point, I start dreaming.  I move from scene to scene.  I feel very aware of things and very in control of myself.  Not aware enough to realize that I'm dreaming, but still, I was more on an awarness level that would equal the one I have in a waking state.  At some point I find myself lying on the ground in a room.  My sister walks in as if she has just come home from a night out.  I'm just lying there and she walks around me like she doesn't even notice me.  I get up or someone picks me up and I go towards a room with a bed in it.  I have this weird feeling like there is an alien presence that wants to communicate / merge with me.  In the dream I had the clear feeling that it was a Peladian trying to do whatever it was trying to do.  
So, I lie down or am placed on the bed.  I'm not exactly sure if I like what is happening, but I allow for it to proceed.  Next thing I know there is a huge energy build up near my bum.  It is so intense that it actually is painful, to a degree.  The energy feels like it is in my thigh.  I don't know if I was told or if I just thought to myself that it should be directed at my root chakra.  So, with my mind and a couple of tries, I move it there.  The energy is very intense and this is when I think that I'm about to have a Kundalini awakening.  I start to loose awarness of my self and my ego kicks in for a split second and I'm like oh my god I'm going to loose my mind.  In the same split second I think that I need to stop this.  Then I'm like no, I don't want to stop it, but by then it is too late.  The energy stops, and I feel myself phase into my physical body.  I feel very much at peace and I can hardly sense my body.  I'm like alright everything is alright.  If I had even the tinyest sense of fear then I was not ready.  But then I'm like no, I know why I was afraid and I'm not really afraid of that.  It was just my ego thinking it was going to be smashed to bits and I'm not afraid of that.  

So, I try and get the energy to come again, but I can only manage to get a fraction of what was there before.  

Of course, it could of been something else.  Maybe it was just the awakening of the root chakra.  I don't know.  Just thought I would share an odd experience.

Happy days and pleasant nights

For some time now, when I meditate, I start to get very sleepy.  I maintan a sense of being centered, but I will just kind of fall into dreams.  I will be sitting meditating and then I start to hear conversations, but I will not be actively involved with them.  Sometimes they are relevent to my current situation, but most of the time they seem like random conversation between random people.  It is often hard for me to remember what I've heard, because I am so sleepy when it is going on.  In any case, it is not what I am intending to do with my meditation.  I would like to remain awake and focused.  This also happens when I start to work with energy and my chakras.  I will be drawing energy into them and slowly I will fall asleep and forget about what I was doing until I snap back into what is going on.

I used to have no problems meditation.  If anything, I had a problem of having too much energy flowing through my system.  I do not know if this is related, but one early morning I was lying in bed and I became aware of a presence entering my room.  I could not tell if this was a positive or negative entity, but I decided to lay still in my bed.  I was lying on my stomach and this entity drew its hand over my spine.  It felt like an intense lazer piercing me and it stopped at about the level of my heart chakra.  It stayed there and I got the urge to open my eyes and turn towards this presence.  All sensations dissapeared and the presence was gone too.  After this occurred I have had problems stimulating my heart center.  It used to be my most dominate center (now ajna chakra is) and now I can barely get a wimper out of it.  Not being able to stay awake durring meditation is not helping since it makes it hard to draw energy into it and get it going.  I am also aware that certain life changes may be the cause of this and the fact that I started meditating less after this could be the cause.  Also of note is that recently I have felt that I am blocked in the exact place on my spine where this hand spent most of its time focusing its lazer energy.  I am just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience with a presence zapping their spine.  

I am also aware that I may be sleepy durring meditation because I am lacking energy.  My diet consits mainly of rice and black beans or garbonzo beans, flax seed cerial w/ bananas & soy milk, and burritos with pinto beans, french fries, avacado and salsa (The Vegan California Burrito)  I am no nutrition expert.  Is this diet enough to keep me going?  Any suggestions on good energy foods to eat -- remeber that I am vegan.  I also ride my bike about 50 miles a week.  So, I am certain I could be overexcerting myself.  However, I have had problems w/ sleepy meditation even before I started biking so much.  Most of the day I am wide awake, but when I sit down to meditate (even after a nice energizing yoga session) I will still fall off into this weird dream land that I am objectively watching and not participating in.

I know that is a lot of ground to cover.  If anything I would like information on how to not be so sleepy durring meditation.  However, the entity zapping my back has been bugging me for a long time, as I do not know what its purpose was.  So, if you have any ideas about that I will excitedly read what you have to offer.  

Thank you much for your time.  Peace and love my friends
-halfphased

I had a very odd night of OBE experiences.  I started my trance work and I slowly slid into a suitable state to exit my body.  Once out of my body I had a slight sensation of being able to control my movement, but that faded as I realized I was unable to see.  I pulled energy into me through my body.  I then asked for astral sight, but still none came to me.  I believe I then opened my physical eyes and was back in my body.

I quickly exited my body again and still nothing.  This happened so many times I was not able to keep count.  Some of the time, I was able to open my physical eyes and be back in my physical body and then close them and be back in my projected double.  At one point I was out of my body unable to do anything and it seemed like my Mother and brother were talking in the next room.  They started talking about leaving and as I had not seen them in some time, I wanted to make sure to greet they before they left.  I found I was unable to return to my body in such an excited state.  So, I calmed down and command myself back into the physical.  I woke up and realized that it was impossible for my mother or brother to be in the next room, as they were most deffinetely half a country away.

At some point durring all of this, I had a very electrifying experience.  Laying conscious of the physical body, I had a sudden urge to perform a yoga position I had done earlier in the day in my yoga class.  Now the following is a little hard to describe.  I was in my physical resting as one would before a projection, but when this urge came over me, I forced my projected hands (the effort felt like that required to pull strong magnets away from each other) to meet directly above my head in what I would call a prayer pose above my head.  When my hands snapped together it was like they were conducting this energy above me down through me (much like an lightning rod would force lightning down through a grounded wire) and my entire body was bathed in the most intense energy I have ever felt.  It felt like being electricuted by an insane amount of power, except that it did not hurt.  I told myself that I could not stand anymore, so I pulled my hands apart and it stopped.  For some reason I had the urge to try again and the same thing happened.  

So, has anyone expereinced a similar surge of energy through their bodies?  And why am I having trouble seeing and moving when I'm projecting?  It feels like I have a sufficient supply of energy, especially when I breath with my physical and pull energy into me while projecting.  Perhaps, I should not be so sure of what I think enough energy is.  It's been fun so far, but I really want to get mobile  Thanks for any help.

I know when I was first attuning myself to the sensation of energies, it would always seem that when it was easiest to become aware of the energy body the full moon would happen to be out.  I haven't really been keeping tabs on this for the past year though.  But then again, I wasn't trying to keep tabs on it when I first noticed it.  I just happened to have a very strong awarness of energy and I would note that at those times the full moon would be out.  Now, I can't say that I notice my awareness being clearer? at some times over others.  Things seem to have smoothed out over the past year.

Hey! Good news.  I'd be happy to do that for you - give me a day or so.

The 'ol stonewall defense, eh?

This is an EXCELLENT exercise. Thank you soooo much, I have had horrible trouble keeping my eyes relaxed.

One of my first experiences was lying on my stomach, it was completely unexpected, because i thought it was only possible from lying on your back. I woke up into vibrations and it felt extremely easy to float up and out of my body.

Nowadays i spontaneously project from any position, but normally my side which is my natural sleeping position.

Hi,
Got a good laugh from your user name.  Thanks.

There are lots of methods and I have been test subject for a couple while looking for techniques to use.  The easiest is also one that needs bravery.

Prepare for meditation in your normal way, then let your attention drift over your body, noticing any feelings, stiffness etc.  When you have one, breath it into you,  let the feeling come up and flood you.  Most people run about now !  

Be strong when the feeling comes up, keep your attention on it, on purpose.  Otherwise you will drift and escape from it.  Which we always want to do, coz we never wanted to feel it in the first place.

Keep breathing, let it come.  After a while you will notice the feeling weaken, it is.  Many people get an image that comes with the feeling...called a core image.  See yourself throwing it away and walking into bright light.  Then go back and find the next one by feeling them out and follow it too.  Discard each with authority and strength, then move on into light.

Works for me and thousands of others around the world.

Love Always.[]

I think what you need to do to get your astral sight is to do deep breaths and raise energy. Your physical body is a lower vibration level than your astral body so it drains energy from you and causes things like paralysis and blindness. Just raise energy by breathing and you should be able to see.

Do these breaths when you first realize you're projecting, if you hear constant rushing you're in the astral.