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quote:Originally posted by OldLad

I was just wondering how someone could tell the difference when one is meditating and they get swirly pictures, faces, symbols and even scenes; whether or not they are experiencing hypnagogic hallucinations or genuine clayrvoyant messages?

Thanks

OldLad (not really old though, 31 [^])

Hello again,[^]

I would say that there shouldn't be any set way to know that. Its an art that requires trial and error.

Just my Opinion yea know...[]

quote:Originally posted by OldLad
  My question is.  What can I do to improve all this?  Its like juggling multiple problems at the sametime and my astral body INSISTS on wanting to leave but stuck from moving.  I keep wanting to see my body lying there but...I can't see nothing nor do I know where I'm at.  Thanks for your help and glad to see everyone well.

Hello,

Well I struggle with the same kinda problems. There just isn't one answer. I myself find that when I have a steady determination but don't try and force an exit it just happens in time. It is very hard to manage though. You have to be somewhat detached from the experience for it to work. Easier said than done!

This probably doesn't help you any. I don't really know what else to say besides keep trying....

Best regards,
Luke

I just love the support in this forum.  A number of questioned posts have been posted by myself with no advice, comments or even pointers from anyone.  I guess it shows that its not the interest of the topic that gets responses but who you know.  Anyways have fun with your little inner circle.[}:)]

There's no upper limit to the length of a post as long as it makes a valid point (or preferably several if it's very long [8D]).

A post should be as long as it needs in order to convey the necessary information.

But do use clear paragraphs next time you write a huge post. They make for easier reading []

2cents & L&L
jouni

Hello Oldlad
I didn't find it to long [] and was very interested to the last.
I think it comes with the territory having preception of the spirits around you, if you continue to have oobe's you will have to communicate your boundaries with spirits and others as you already have stated.
Great post I look forward to seeing more from you []

The moments of non-awareness and no time yopu mentiond are probably projections beyond the level of existence we are capable of recalling and understanding.

As to how we are able to have an astral presence in the first place I believe the quesiton is the opposite: How is it that we are able to have a physical presence?
I believe, based on some experiences and a lot of intuition, that we exist in the physical as reflections of the true self, what one might call the soul or the spirit for the purpose of exploring individuality in a restricted environment.
That's why, when an event takes the consciousness far enough from the physical, the physical cannot reflect the experiences of the consciousness anymore.
Think of a candle reflected by a mirror. The mirror is the physical plane and the reflection is our physical existence. When you take the candle far enough from the mirror it can no longer reflect an image. The further the candle is from the mirror the better awareness and perception one need to be able to see the reflection in the mirror.

I know, that doesn't answer all questions yopu had but someone will come along shortly to fill in what I left out [8D]

2cents & L&L
jouni

Well welcome to the forum club, good to have you.  You should find all the help you need from many different sources by being involved, so good luck.  As for your concious OBE, this sight is excellent for any questions you might have.  Rober Bruce is most definately a wise teacher in this field.  If you are curious about anything, such as techniques to help you get out of your body, the treatise on OBE section (located on the very first page when you enter this web site, also in the training section) will have many answers for you.  Best of luck to you!