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I have recently heard that NASA has cut funding to Jupiter's moon Europa, which originally planned to send a probe to the moon and drill into the ice in an attempt to see if there was in fact an ocean beneath the surface, and instead again send man to the moon.  I personally find this very disappointing.  Aside from Earth, Europa is the most likely environment to find life in our solar system.  But instead of taking this next exciting step, humanity is sending man again to a desolate, rocky, lifeless rock.  I'm hoping to start a discussion on this topic of space travel within our race.  Though much, MUCH more knowledge can be gained by going to Europa, it seems that man is driven to send itself back into space travel.  How many of you think this is a necessary evolutionary step?  How many think space travel is an impossible feat?  And how many think that it's utterly unnecessary to send man into our unnatural environment when machines can do the job well?

So recently I have become very good at the whole lucid dreaming thing.  They are much less random then they have ever been, and my level of awareness within them is profound to me.  But I can't quite rap my brain around the idea of actually applying a lucid dream state to get OOB.  Can anyone giving any types on shifting the concsiousness beyond lucid dreams into the fully concscious OOB state?

I was wondering what peoples views on this was.  Recently I've been having some really intense, vivid, and conscious lucid dreams, and it got me thinking.  I've read a lot of OOB books, and a fundamental characteristic of OOBE's is that you can't always recall each detail, or that you lose consciousness during the projection.  This sounds very similar to a lucid dream to me.  Now I know that many people say that an OOBE is seemingly more real than the dream state, but I've come to question that also due to the very profound level of consciousness in my lucid dreams.  I've gained total control over the experience and can even recall my day before I went to sleep inside the dream.  Now with all the discussions about visiting the afterlife, speaking to dead relatives, and going as far as entering other dimensions... are we certain that these are not just a higher level of conscious dreaming.  Heck, doesn't even have to be higher I guess.

I would just like to suggest a site that I feel gets overlooked quite a bit.  There are some very great stories, also some great arguments, and a forum with very few members.  The site is called "Ragged Trousered Philosophy".

http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal

I'm sure that many of us have been exposed, on small level, to the increasingly popular idea of Out of Body Experiences. Believers, and more importantly those of "experience", have stated time and time again, in now almost countless books that the experience of leaving ones body is in fact more real than waking life itself. They state that it's such a profoud experience that it can't be denied any more than denying that we are alive right now (which some philosophers do in fact argue atimately). The problem with this is that we have to take the stories at face value. After all, how can it be proven? How do you test and retest and scrutinize the existence of conciousness outside the body? An important question would be whether or not we can know, beyond science, the validity of an OBE?
Obviously with something like this there will be much doubt. But with so many individuals claiming to experience this state of conciousness it can't be simply overlooked. It's entirely probable that they whole-heartedly believe they did in fact leave there bodies. So the most obvious answer is a hallucination within the mind. They can be powerful things. We won't go into discussion at this time as to the physiological reasons why the hallucination occurs... unless someone has a theory. The question is "why is it believed to be so real?" If the hallucination was doing it's job right then it would clearly be experienced as reality.
The next idea is a dream state. After all, every human has experienced a dream. A state in which during the experience you believe it to be reality. But as individuals we can define a dream by that state that seems real at the time, but upon waking was obvious an inner working of the mind itself. So why is it that after an OBE the individual still believes the experience to be real and valid and not a the dream state that we are all accustomed to?
Opinions and insights?

New idea on our own destiny here...
In our own spirituality we view God as a perfect being.  As we read the bible we see countless incidents when God has intervened in ways that go utterly against the laws of nature and physics (not to say he couldn't) to help humanity.  But we don't see it anymore.  Obviously that is open to "interpretation" by various religions trying to hold on to their true God, but on a natural scale, He hasn't shown himself in a while.  But I don't think we give enough justice to humanity itself.  For the most part we feel that we're so low on the food chain, so to speak, that we can't do anything without divine intervention.
But we've come pretty far on our own.  Now there will be discussions of God or spirits or angels giving us intuition that leads us to where we need to go... this is not that forum.  I'm taking the side, for this forum at least, of a humanist.
Never in the history of our existence has their been PROOF of any level of divine intervention.  You are allowed to believe in the bible, book of Mormon, Koran, anything else... but they all come down to faith.  There is no PROOF of it, and you can't discount that because you hold on to hope.
But in the same breath, there is hope.  Think of the human condition.  We have always listened to the more educated and more experienced within our societies.  There's a certain level of respect for the elderly.  So what if God is nothing more than the "eldest"?  This can account for both eternal progression or reincarnation.  
It's a common belief in many religions that God was once similar to us as humans are today.  As humans we make mistakes, and the result is learning and growing from them.  Granted there are many individuals that have made mistakes and destroyed themselves as a result, but if reincarnation is real, then they have the chance to change things and learn from their past life.  If the afterlife is real, then likewise they have the chance to learn and grow from their mistakes as well.
So as God is concerned, what if He is really a higher level of our own selves.  What if God is all perfect and all knowing simply because he has made every mistake, or learned from every mistake, that our universe has to offer?  He may have destroyed Himself in some lives, grown as a result in others, and now, in the scheme of eternity, he has made, learned, and grown from every mistake there is to make, and thus, in our dimension of the physical universe, is incapable of making the same mistakes as we do, because he's made them and knows the solution without hesitation?
Isn't it possible that He is helping us find our path, but not intervening in walking it because in order to reach His level of understanding and divinity, we need to make and fix our own mistakes for ourselves?

Some months ago I purchased "Our Ultimate Reality" as advertised on this website.  I downloaded all the special features as well, including "The Abyss" to listen to in order to help relax.  Well I recently just purchased a new laptop and while installing the book onto it I could no longer locate "The Abyss".  I was just wondering if anyone knew if it was still around?

I'm just wondering what all of you think about all the disasters occuring so quickly around the world and whether or not you think it might be a sign that the second coming, or a great change of similarity, could be near?  I know natural disasters have always occured and that they are a natural part of the world.  But with our technology now we are able to observe them all over the world and it's becoming clear that they are increasing and becoming more distructive.  Examples...
1.  Mount Saint Helen erupts in the 80's.
2.  A 9 point earthquake causes a tsunami in Asia
3.  Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans and is labeled the worst natural disaster in Americas history... it is the 5th hurricane this year.  
4.  Much of the national guard is across seas and unable to aid in the relief, as they are fighting a war.  The economy of this country is in serious jeaopardy now that only one state has been hit by this disaster, and as it was bad already this could really put a huge damper on our current way of life.

I'm not suggesting this is the end of the world itself, humanity is fully capable of adapting and getting through such crisis.  But do some of you think that maybe the only way we're going to be able to do this is to have a natural, massive shift in conciousness and possibly, within the next couple generations, enter the next stage of human evolution?

I just read a chapter in "Our Ultimate Reality" in which Adrian addresses the issue of what happens to animals once they die. My whole life I've grown up with dogs, and it's completely obvious to me that they all have unique personalities, that they clearly comprehend much of what we say to them, and that they are not creatures without souls. Creatures like insects have always appeared to be less of soulfull creatures and more like necissary parts to keep the natural earth running smoothly. Not to say that insects don't have souls, but I suppose if that is the case then it would further push the question that I am about to address. For most OBE and NDE experiencers when one experiences one or the other they often realize a shift in their conciousness. They are often able to easily understand and comprehend questions that even the greatest philosophers have spent their lives searching the answer for. It was also addressed in Adrians book that as spirits evolve through the different levels their concious understanding of things makes us in the physical world look like single celled organisms. I'm wondering if animals experience this same shift. Do dogs for example go through a life review process in which they understand their actions, and those actions done to them, and comprehend the thought process of their friends and masters? When they visit us, as Adrian says they do, do they do it because they miss us and want to see how our life is going, or is it because they miss us rubbing their bellies? If they do have a progressive shift in conciousness... is it possible to have say, an OBE, in which you visit your dead pet and find yourself having a conversation with a more concious soul then your dog was in life? Any views on this idea, and perhaps stories of first hand experience, would be nice. Thanks!

OK, just know that at times I write my dreams in the "Astral Pulse" forums instead of my dream journal, so you can consider this nothing more then a perhaps a passage from a dream journal.  If if you wish to comment it would be great, but I'm satisfied simply expressing it.  
  This was one of the craziest dreams I've ever had.  I've had lucid dreams, but I consider them beyond the dream state, so this one takes the cake.  I was a vampire!  I didn't realize it immediately however.
  There was this girl.  She was incredibly rebellious and simply couldn't find a man that could handle her life style.   One night I met her and we had a nice conversation, but something happened and when she got ticked I got even more ticked and walked out of her life with no regrets what so ever.  But then I ran into her a short time later and she seemed quite surprised that I would even talk with her because of her past behavior.  But then she felt so embarrassed and regretful of her behavior, I forgave her, and she kissed me.  When she kissed me I honestly felt instantaneously in love.... like "where have you been all my life".  She gave all her trust to me and she wanted to have sex, but instead of having sex, I bit her neck and sucked her blood like a vampire would.  The next thing I knew we were hiding out from a "pack" of vampires hunting the both of us.  Apparently I was a very ancient and renowned vampire, and because I "turned" a human I was hunted down by them all.  They broke into an ancient mansion of mine (after removing many large rats that had inhabited the mansion", and found the dead body of "my love" surrounded in a shrine within a giant room.  I rebelled, used all flying, speed, telepathic, and demonic abilities I attained to destroy the "cult" and defend my dead love... then awoke!  The truth... it seemed so real.  When I awoke I felt nearly heartbroken that I was no longer with this girl that I loved so much.  And I've thought about her all day.  In all my life I've never been so effected by a dream... during my waking day!

Last night I dreamed that I died.  I was in a river with people I knew as friends, but whom I don't know in real life.  Suddenly I was attacked by an alligator.  I don't recall the attack, only that nearly half of my lower body was bitten off in the process.  I knew that I could survive the incident but in doing so my quality of life would be greatly reduced.  So, being in water at the time, I made the choice to drown myself instead of continue living as a handicap.  Knowing I would instinctively come up for air I asked one of my friends to hold me under until I drown.  I can remember being afraid, but still fully committed to killing myself.  When the time came that I absolutely needed air I struggled to get to the surface, but my friend did not allow it.  I very vividly recall breathing in the water!  Then everything went black.  I could not breath, but was not concerned because I knew I was already dead.  Then suddenly I took a gasp of air and opened my eyes.  Everything now had a vibrant blue color to it and was swaying as if even inanimate objects were alive.  But I was still on Earth.  I could see everything taking place in real time but could not interact.  I could neither open doors nor walk through them.  I had become trapped between life and afterlife.  Then a guide appeared to me.  He did not have any angelic qualities... just a regular man with regular clothes and a brown leather jacket.  He was in full color, had no blue tint to him.  He told me that I was trapped because I made the decision to take my own life.  He offered no saving solution.  Then I somehow gave him a vision of the circumstances surrounding my decision.  He suddenly became angry that I was trapped and told me that my decision was alright.  But he was also angry that he did not already know what happened, as if I had wasted his time.  He then stormed away, and I awoke!

I was hoping someone would have tips and techniques for inducing OBE while lucid dreaming.  I've had many lucid dreams and in them I am completely in control of my flying, walking through walls, etc... it's effortless.  But in them I think "how can I have an OBE"? and can't do anything.  There have been times when I have attempted it and began spinning up and out of control, but then I just wake up, or go back to the lucid dream.  I cannot have a fully concious OBE from this stage.  Are there any techniques that can be done WITHIN the dream that would induce and OBE without waking myself up?

I've noticed while meditating that it, well, gets boring.  The same goes for attempting OBE or breath awareness exercises, etc.  Does anyone have any tips to get past this bordom to progress further?  It's like your sitting there doing it, and all the sudden you just don't want to do it anymore, like it's studying or something.  I'm sure that if I can get past this stage there is something waiting beyond it, but it's so hard.  Is there anything that makes it more interesting while still maintaining the excercise, or do you just have to suck it up and push through?

Gandhi said that you must become what it is you wish to see.  In recent years I've been doing all things possible to live a life of peace.  No conflict, no enemies, no lying or acts that will bring unnecessary stress or regret.  With that said, I will tell a short story.  Me and this girl have been getting somewhat serious with each other.  Her ex-boyfriend is not at all over her.  In fact he follows her, calls her some 50 times a day, leaves notes on her car, you name it.  The poor girl has moved on with her life and he just can't seem to do that.  The other night he called her for about the 20th time that day and I decided to talk with him.  Calmly I told him that he needed to get over her because it simply wasn't going to happen.  He needed to somehow accept the situation for what it was and find someone else that could make him happy because she has done the same.  Basically just be a man and get over it.  Because I was calm he was also calm and there was no argument or hatred in the conversation.  But about half an hour later he showed up at my house (which he found because he had followed his ex-girlfriend to it).  He began ranting about how I stole her from him and ruined the best thing he ever had... then attacked me.  The fight ensued, at his choice, and I retaliated to protect myself.  His friends then broke it up and they left.  But this only escalated things.  He didn't feel better about the situation because he got out his aggression.  Instead I went from being a stranger to his enemy and he still dwells a lot on his ex and me.  Sorry for that long tale, the relationship story is not the point I'm trying to make or get advice on.  What I'm wondering is this... is it possible to live life never having to get involved in a physically violent situation?  I'm sure many of us have been in bars or at parties where someone starts something just for the sake of it.  There are individuals out there who don't think about peace or care about being reasonable... they want to fight and will attack regardless of your view on it.  So how are these individuals dealt with in a peaceful manner, especially when words and rationality doesn't effect the situation?  I realize that it's human nature to resort to violence in many situations.  Our history back to the beginning clearly demonstrates that peace is not humanities defining attribute.  But does it have to be that way?  Is it really inevitable to have make some enemies throughout the course of life?  Can one live a life of inner peace each day and still sometimes get caught up in conflict?  Many believe that to walk away or try to avoid a fight is being weak.  I think that true weakness is losing control of rationality and reason  to give into one moment of primal rage.  I think that trying to prevent a fight from occurring is progressive, not digressive.  But can it be maintained?  I'm talking beyond even defending yourself.  If you accept defense in a fight as reason to fight then you accept that violence will be a part of your life.  I'm talking pure peace.  No violence or retaliation towards anyone, even if it's defense.  Does anyone think this is a possible goal to attain or should each of us accept that a life of inner and outer peace cannot be maintained indefinitely?

Perhaps it's just me, but does it seem as though since the recent "crash" of astral pulse, that almost everyone has just given up?  Generally speaking, there are no new posts, no new topics, no new members, and I would say that 99% of all the old members have given up on this site.  Do you think that the change that Astral Pulse has undergone has killed it?  Should someone speak to the mysterious and impossible to reach Robert Bruce?

I was just wondering what everyone thinks they are.  What aspects are necessary for a working relationship.  Modern or old fashion, what are thoughts on this issue.  Is love necessary for any working relationship?  Can common goals and a common respect equal a healthy relationship.  Can a relationship based purely on physical attraction ever work, or is it necessary to stimulate each other on a mental or spiritual level?  Can a relationship work because it makes sense to be in it philosophically, even if love and growth are not in it?  Just curious what everyone thinks, and be honest.  There must be a few out there who don't believe in love.  And there are definitely those who believe in nothing but love.  I would like to hear both sides.

My vote goes to hell no.  I'm a huge fan of The Matrix as is most of the nation.  But this phenomenon of "could it really happen" needs to pass.  It's just a movie.  Everyone who believes other wise just wants to be Neo.

My family went beachside one evening many years ago.  It was a really hot night so there were a lot of people around.  We were staring up at the sky when I saw this single light come up over us parallel to the seashore.  It came up at what appeared normal speed for a plane.  There was no sound.  What got my attention is that it suddenly stopped over the ocean but almost above us.  I thought it may have been a helicopter because they can stop like that but like I said it didn't make any noise.  Next it started to sway back and forth, as if it was travelling about four meters one way, then four the other way.  That happened for about a minute.  It stopped again, then it just started to speed up really fast heading east over the ocean's horizon until it disappeared.  It was going faster than any plane I know and again, there was no sound.

That was pretty weird.  I have never seen anything like that again.

...

Actually, its sensative to other types of electromagnetic energy aside from white light. I believe it is between your ears, but when you feel the sensation of your third eye chakra or pineal gland opening or working, it may feel like it is at your brow (pay closer attention to it, because its an easy mistake to be made)

people chose God becouse he is a good excuse to not to take things in our hands, we'll wait for him, what can i do ?? etc etc, i doubt that most of people here wait for God, we explore metaphysics ourselves

now when the belief have been shaken people will find another illusion to cling to, instead of "i will be rewarded in heaven becouse i preach everyday" will be playing computer games that give feeling of control, like Sims for example, instead of changing something in our lives we change tapestry, or screenwall, looks nicer, doesn't it
is it better...   no

I like that you added Mormonism and Buddhism to your list of open mindedness.  Not because either are at any war or anything with Catholics, but because I have talked to many in the 3 seperate groups who hate the other 2 with quite a passion, for reasons that really aren't accurate.  When one belongs to a religion it's easy to discount others as wrong.  When you're in a religion the tendency is to strive for full faith in that religion, and in doing so one can make it difficult for themselves to be open minded or objective towards anything else.  Nobody knows everything or has all the answers, so maybe we could all benefit in some part from each idea, no matter how different it may be from our own.

I've had three experiences with the exact same thing. I can't really offer you any answers, but I thought it might be nice to know you're not alone in this.

I'd think it's pretty self explanatory.  Does does not hate, it is against His very being.  He loves all things He has created because He cannot make and error in judgement and therefor has never created anything or anyone which He later regreted.  He created everything out of Love for creation itself and Love's the universe He has created.  So, He IS Love.

Hm, what kind of energy work you did exactly before?

I disagree with your statement that you cannot be fully conscious.  I've had plenty of lucid dreams in which my awareness was complete.  I've also had the type you're explaining in which conciousness takes irrational leaps of judgement.  I believe that, in those experiences, you're simply not completely lucid yet.  Trust me, I've had enough experience to realize the difference.

Kozzi

You have a lot of questions, and much of the world shares them with you. The great thing is, these questions are fundamental for our survival. Yes, great! Great because it is fun and intensely stimulating (for me at least) to learn from these sorts of questions.
Without them, we wouldn't have anything to question, there would be nothing to help us grow, we wouldn't have the great minds like Socrates, Martin Luther King, Albert Einstien. Without them we wouldn't have a diverse range of cultures, religions, and myths.
It is the probing of these questions (and often premature conclusions, which can also be beneficial in learning) that drive the human race to commit these acts of war, acts of faith, acts of spirituality.

I have just recently, perhaps yesterday, realized something. Something i previously thought would be a horrible idea to settle with. However, the more i think about it, the more at home and comforted i feel about existence.
We are here becuase we are here. That's it. That is all we know for sure. You can dress your life with what ever belief system you wish, and i'm not saying it's wrong to do so. All i am saying is that all the human race really knows for sure is that we exist. Whatever existence means to you, we exist.
These questions you ask, are, at very least, extremely difficult for the human mind to even begin to grasp. Most of us only know of what we have experienced within the physical constraints of this lifetime. Given this circumstance, it is incredibly difficult for any of us to understand questions which call on us to defy physicality in order to gain even an understanding, let alone an answer.

Yet we continue to try anyway. That is life. The search for knowledge. Theoria. It is what is so great about life. We are forever expanding our knowledge in the search for these seemingly unattainable answers. Even, after thousands of years of recorded existence with no answers, we continue to probe, and we continue to advance.
The vital questions seem like a rainbow - ever escaping, taking the gold with them. However, although we haven't reached the end of the rainbow, we have come across incredible knowledge anyway.

With all of this in mind, i say that we are here beause we are. Our minds are perhaps nearly incapable of reaching answers in their present states. However, whilst we search for answers in the unanswerable, we answer other questions which serve to push us forward anyway. It is the purpose of the questions you pose to us in this thread to drive us in our existence.

Now, i hope that had some relevance to your topic []. I may have stemmed off somewhere there, but it should be alright.

Just a small sidenote. I don't mean to be picky, but it might be worth breaking your post up into paragraphs rather than one huge block of writing. Essentially it isn't important, but it does make for easier reading.

That's some interesting stuff AlphaOmega, I must agree with you 100%
thank you for sharing it with us. []

Pretty cool, never seen that before.  I was a little suprised to find that I had no trouble reading it at all, which I guess varifies what it says.  Not really useful, but it took a couple seconds out of my bordom.

I would love to know what every agency that make up the US government does behind the curtain, but that's not gonna happen... ever.  you want to see Hellboy with me AlphaOmega?

-Xane

Hey Alpha I moved your topic to Book recommendations & Reviews

I have never heard of it, what is it about?

Nay

go to those 2 pages,read and practise
http://kundalini-support.com/
http://www.urday.com/indexs.asp

I have not seen it so take this for what it is worth. From what I have heard this is pretty much just for emotional response and holds no true spiritual value. I have heard it focuses on torture and suffering and is very gory. That might be nice for stirring emotions, but what good does that do? 2 hours of gore. It is only about Jesus' last 12 hours. It does not contain much if any of his teachings, which in my opinion is the most important part. (<---- I said my opinion in case you missed that.)

Whether it is a good or bad movie I cannot say. But it does not sound very interesting to me.

(Note I am not a Christian but I hold nothing personal against it.)

Sure, I believe everyone should experience it.

I dont know of any books or anything for the blind though.

sometimes it is needed to put your current beliefs on hold, or doubt them, so that you can take a more objective look at them. because while you still believe in them, no matter how hard you try you will never be as objective as when you doubt them.

of course, this isn't to say that you will soon enough belief them again, and believe in them even stronger than before (you could end up turning away from them). but what is important is that it gives you an opportunity to take another look into your beliefs without your subconscious already agreeing with everything you hear and see.

hopefully, you faith in your beliefs after this passes will be stronger than before, whatever it is that you believe afterwards ^_^ .

good luck with this []

~kakkarot

I believe so too.  I would challenge anyone to find something that doesn't.  Not necissarily an object... you know, what's the opposite of a chair (although I suppose you could just say no chair)?  Can anyone think of one?

Interesting.  I have heard others talk of experiences in which they were visited by a beautiful women who spoke of her planet.  They were told almost exactly the same thing as you.  They were told the the planet she came from was close to us and was a spiritually advanced planet.  That we have never discovered them because of their strange orbit that is very out of sync with earths.  But that one day the two orbits would collide and the planets would meet, becoming one and changing them both dramatically.  I've never heard of the strength or gravity thing before, but that's interesting.  Maybe continue with the penny dropping and let us know of the rate of change.  Perhaps that will give us some time frame of when this will all occur.

If this is the way you feel about the discussions on this site then naturally you're not going to see any good in it.

The workshop manual for my car is something that I find to be very useful information, but to anyone else that doesn't own a car like mine or has no technical or mechanical ability, it is meaningless.

OBEs are important to many people here, as is spiritual growth. To a mind that is open to change or at least accepting that there are other possible viewpoints to any given topic, all opinions are of value.

We use the filters in our minds to sort what is of value to us and what isn't. If you have determined that none of this is of value to you, then why bother reading any of it? Nobody is making you take in everything on this forum are they?

If nobody is forcing you to accept the views of other people here, then all of your criticisms are meaningless!

James.

Yes and no in my experience.
I've noticed that the vibrations are the stronger the more focused one is on the physical during the separation process.
When we are asleep we aren't aware of the physical at all and thus the vibrations are nearly nonexistent to the degree that we don't ever, or hardly ever, notice them.

The different techniques, namely the traditional projetion and phasing, differ in that the projection is more goal oriented and attempts to cause the separations whereas phasing is a simulaiton of the natural falling asleep process.

Next time you get low level vibrations try to stop by willing to stop the exit process them and see what happens. The sensations should become more pronounced either immediately or after a little while around th etime you're about to fall asleep.

2cents & L&L
jouni