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I've already posted this in a forum in the Permanent Astral Discussions forum. But since I'd like faster results, I've decided to post a topic here for advice and insight from all of our forum experts: Adrienne, Frank, and (is it Donna?)

Anyone else is welcome to respond.

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Dear experts:

0) A prologue note: Tactile Imaging is too aggressive, but drifting is too ineffective. Bad chemistry. Too much chemistry destroys the reaction, while too little prevents any reaction from happening. I'm still reaching a comfortable medium in between the two.

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ORIGINALLY WHERE I STARTED
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1) My appologies. I have not reviewed all the pages. But I a question . . .

2) . . . When I attempted some phasing practice last night, all my attention was drawn into the region of my brow chakra. Learning is a "sad" (figuratively) and slow process.

3) By drifting away, I speak of just letting the body relax. Staring ahead with your eyes closed is one thing, but staring out as if you were looking into the darkness with your brow is another. I'll list some things. You can interpret and give me insight.

   a) Lay down, get mind set, hold blank state. Body begins to relax. My attention is spread out over my body.
   b) Stare ahead, through Brow Chakra.

OBSTACLES: trying to keep my focus centered there. There's a challenging transition between "spread-out" awareness and having it centered in one place. I'm getting better, as you may notice, but my mind wants to pay attention to the rest of my body (i.e. spread itself out)

   c) Focus becomes exceedingly centered at Brow Chakra
   d) The black space seems to gain a sense of depth. Nothing's changed. I still haven't left the bed. I'm not outside of my body. I don't percieve myself--or in retrospect--to be close to "projecting"

NOTE: I'm confused with something. I find it hard to believe that I'm using astral sight, but at this point, I gain the sensation of spherical vision. If it is astral related, it is not sight. It's like sight, but I think it is more related to sensation, feeling, empathy -- sensing space. The confusion I'm experiencing causes me to misinterpret this sensation as sight-related, even though I am seeing nothing.

One could do this naturally when awake and not in a trance-like state. The difference, however, is clarity. It feels more natural in the above circumstances, more real, more clarified. It is like having it . . . versus trying to imagine, feel, or artifice the experience (i.e. like artificing pictures in your mind . . . versus actually seeing them when in a trance, or in a dream). When artificing sensations, there is a great feeling of limitation, but in trance, it feels like there is no limitation. My head is there, but it is like it isn't. Again, at this point, I am still in my body. I am still aware of my head. I am still in the 1st person mind-set. Symptoms have simply begun to present themselves.

   e)WOOSH! All my attention is pulled right to my brow. I can literally say that I have, awaringly, unwillingly lost my spread out focus. Interesting things happen (Note: below). I've lost awareness of a lot of my body. It's hard to feel most of myself. I can no longer SENSE the shape of my body (I can some of it -- random parts and junk) nor can I sense any area to the sides of my head. The interesting thing is that I know that I cannot sense it, while being aware that I have lost that focus.

NOTE: I know this. But since my focus is usually spread-out and not compressed, achieving this state is somewhat of a "discpline" challenge.

   f) I see something. It's like light, but not very bright. Faded, really. It's hard to even make it out. It moves like ripples in a pond. These "waves" oscillate inward from the side and are replaced by other ripples. I notice three or four. They move from bottom upward. They move from side inward. They curve in and disappear. They follow weird patterns. Silky waves.

   g) I remember something I read and figure this is my que, a doorway, to get deeper. I remember people mentioning that they get pulled in to a tunnel. I don't know how to focus in, draw my focus in, or get deeper. It seems hard and impossible

   h) I lose focus because I know my attention is spreading. In retrospect, I surmise that this came from a sudden spur of interest to get somewhere. Maybe a little excitement. The last I remember is being flustered by hypnogogic imagery and starting to black out into sleep. I eventually get up, but it's 45 min. after I started.

   i) Upon opening my eyes and getting up, I feel like a different person. My eyes are heavy. My body is tired. It feels like I'm just getting up. Interesting, because moments ago I felt deeply relax, but not half-asleep.


Insight on all aspects would be great. Also, how am I doing, and how do I get moving? =(

Thanks

...

Yes. Though my primary guide is indeed my higher self, I have also met my other guide face to face, both in this world (sort of) and in the astral.

For many people, their main guide in life is their higher self, and they require no more than that. For lots of other people, they have encounted friendly and helpful beings or spirits who have been guides and protectors for them, especially while they spend time in the astral.

There are no hard and fast rules here. What is true and what is fact differs for every individual, with maybe some common general guidelines. You really need to discover the truth about your guide(s) for youself, as I doubt anyone else can tell you what is absolutely true for you.

Regards,
James

Because the future isn't set in stone like the past.

Sure, there may be some probabilities that are more likely to occur, and someone MAY pick up on that one, but neh... I mean, why do you think so may people say they've seen the world destroyed in years like 1995 and stuff? Maybe they just happened to tune into one of those possibilities, but it wasn't the one that happened.

Besides, just because someone has psychic gift, that doesn't mean they're not selfish.

If this happens while driving PULL OVER THE CAR!!!

I trance easy. Sometimes it's as immediate as a finger-snap. However, I find that I trance at inopportune times (while driving, while talking to people) when I've gone too long without an OBE or lucid dream.  It's almost as if the Astral is calling me "home."

I spoke with my so-called teacher about this so-called "problem" and he used to have it too.  The answer, ironically, is to do more deliberate trance work.  Set up boundaries (smell, sense of place, music, etc.,) so that your body knows when it's OK to trance and when it's not OK.

As for your inability (so far) to launch into your OBE from your trancy-state, it's all about Will.  Something about you doesn't really want to "go."  It's not about "technique" at all; if the deep desire isn't there, no technique in the book will help you . . . so work first on the deep desire!  Do you REALLY want to "go?"

i have definetly read about both.  i'm sure people have had success w/ either way.  i rememeber reading a post here a while back about different angles.  unfortunately i don't remember what it was titled.  

if you feel more comfortable focusing on one point than another, then just keep doing it until you feel otherwise.  let us know how it turns out.

you say rather than entering into trance.  do you mean that you would rather enter into a trance slowly?  after your twenty minutes of letting your body relax what kind of state do you feel that you are in?  do you feel that you are in a trance after those twenty minutes? because twenty minutes or relaxation is normal in the time it takes to reach a nice trance state.

what's the most relaxed you have ever been while doing this?

what is it that you are concentrating or focusing on that brings you out of your relaxation?  usually any thoughts about the body will tend to bring you back towards the physical.  do you notice any physical movement when you start to concentrate?  the slightest bit will bring you out of trance.  for a few months i would break my trance by concentrating too hard and moving parts of my body.  i wasn't aware of it at the time and it took some careful observation to realize what was going on.

everyone is different here in what helps them trigger the projection reflex.  have you started doing NEW yet?  usualy if i am in trance and start raising as much energy as i can into my sub-naval storage area, i can start to feel some vibrations and a little seperation.

have you read ad or the treatises yet?  

if you think going deeper into your relaxation will help then what's stopping you from doing so?  do you fall asleep?

Dear

I read your post, and I think you are going into it too hard. Wanna know a quick way to trance?  Go hiking on a beautiful day on those cliffs in British Columbia til you find a most awesome spot, maybe where there is some sand. Form a nice body contoured mattress out of the sand quickly, and just soak in the beauty. Chant some melody that sounds good to you, let it all go. You'd be in a quick trance! Have some bottled water along, don't eat.

Do you see ANYTHING with your eyes closed? If someone tells you not to visualize, must you obey? can you allow a teeny variation from procedure til you "find" the best method for you?

Also, determine the PURPOSE of your out of the body exploration. Where do you want to go? Name that location repeatedly while you trance out. Your third eye focus is fine, it is my favorite too.
If you KNOW where you want to go and what it looks like, go ahead and visualize it, until you forget about it or get distracted by trancing. Just relax and accept what your perceptions give you.  Maybe a bird will chirp and you hear it but don't open your eyes, it lets you know you are almost in or out of trance, but it is easy to stay in trance. I do this in sleep, before I open my eyes to get up, I SCAN for dreams and stuff that I got out of my exploration, dreams, what have you.  

HAVE YOU BEEN KEEPING A DREAM JOURNAL? That trains your mind to collect data and sensory material from OBE, DREAMS, etc. You are going to need that development. DAILY.

I practice being always mindful, always mindful, so that I am perceiving even while I am asleep, in trance or whatever. It is an alertness thing. Someone says being well rested is good to have.

What are you expectations out of this out of body thing?  Moonwalk? what?! that is important, otherwise, you might be staring at floorboard or a socket and not know what it is. Sometimes the force of wanting to go someplace specific is enough to propel you out of the body.

One funny method would be to walk toward a wall, with the intention of being on the other side of the wall. If your mind is relaxed, and firm, you might find your mind on the other side of the wall while your body is stuck on the wall in the other room. It works something like that.  The rope is just one of the methods. If you scuba dive, you might find FINS a good one. It is about propelling, I guess. Even a tub drain is another good one, if you want to go subterranean! Just let go, and without fear. Don't over do the hemi-sync. Instead remember the tones by memorizing it. That alone would relax you. Be a relaxed person. Another good idea is to do a floatation tank. Maybe that is the one for you.

If you dream easily, it can be easy to astral project. Don't give up.

Watch your affirmations and listen to yourself. Are you saying, darn, ugh, this is hard, this is frustrating?  that is self fulfilling. Act like you have the ability and snap, it happens.

Hope this helps. And you do not need Robert Bruces' address. He does reply to email. Unless you are willing to fly to Australia where he lives. Read all these postings, they are helpful.  Hope I helped!

ah, the difference between spiritual energy and physical energy. well, i don't have time to give a complete response tonight, but trust me, after 7 years of getting to know both my spirit and my body very intimatly (bad spelling?) i can tell you for certain that there is a difference.

try "raising" adrenaline in your body and you should feel the difference, the main thing being that adrenaline only flows in the physical paths that are open to allow it. spiritual energy flows through the entire body regardless of physical makeup, and even out of the body.

~kakkarot

Many here believe that you are out of body every night when you dream. I strongly doubt that, coz like you I have also become more frequently aware at the end of my dreams and have also observed that it is nothing like re-entry from an OBE at all. It feels like you are in your body, even though you can still se the dream, and its just a matter of opening your real eyes and there you are, awake. What I do believe on the other hand is that one can be out of body and then dream, or you can dream and the get out of body. I have experienced both of these things but Im not shure how this works. Think I need to do some research on that.
Point is, I do NOT belive that every dream is an OBE like many people here seem to think. But Im open for discussion...

hi there leviiathan,

i have had those off and on all my life. there are normal neurological reasons for their occurences in many cases. no, i cant remember exactly what those reasons are, but i am not a doctor alas. maybe hemi-sync can do it to you as it is supposed to affect the brain.

however there might be energetic reasons in your case.

i used to get bad leg spasms at night. yoga seems to have solved that for me, but there might have been underlying psychological reasons such as worry or stress.

but since twitching and spasming is not that uncommon (conscious or unconscious) i bet you are just fine. and if you ARE making it happen by thinking about it, try turning the energy of your will in a new direction like exiting.

just an idea, no expert here in me.

jj

wow, good post!  I'll contribute what I can:

For some people, trance comes easy.  Some people have a hard time NOT trancing - - - like me.  I have a reputation as a "space cadet," and no one wants to be in the car when I'm driving.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_blush.gif" border=0>

Most people however, are specifically "trained" (for lack of a better term) NOT to trance, ever.  Modern Western Life does that to you.  So it's real hard to learn, and it takes a lot of practice.  Once you "get" it, however, it slowly gets easier.

The natural resistance barrier is fear.  It's a protective thing . . . fear has saved all of our lives numerous times, I'm sure.  All I can say is work with your fear, get used to the "weird" feelings by doing the exercises over and over.

Getting close to OBE and somehow not "making it" can be very frustrating.  I don't know how to make you feel better except to say, be happy with your progress so far!  If ROPE doesn't work for you, try something else.  There are a variety of ways to get "out."

The cold is actually a good sign that you've brought your body rhythm down to a very slow tick - - - very good.  When I go deep, I'll breathe perhaps once a minute, which actually feels normal at the time.  I get very cold sometimes, but I only notice it upon coming out of the trance.

Hope this helps - - - and keep it up!


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

Oops... sorry... didn't post the link:

http://193.125.152.107/pub/internet/faq/Out-Of-Body.faq/

Like, your tech made my body feel so super heavy! It was incredible! Tonight, I'm going to try it again and see how much farther I can get. My body felt heavier than lead!

Hey, I use my awareness hands to relax, too. I just imagine them relaxing my body, part by part, and it really helps me relax physically.

Autocratic Totalitarian Dictator Supreme Lord Saint Kyle of the Squirrel I

[Originally posted by Leviiathan:]

quote:Originally posted by Leviiathan:
Alright... I made a topic earlier, so I'm more or less branching out into a topic that addresses a specific problem most of you should be able to relate to.

I find that the technique that works best for me is generally a combination of breathing in and out, followed by the falling effect. I lay down, I so I just feel my bed falling for a second in between breathes (feel the force that is).


Hi there Leviiathan,
My, my this sounds so busy. When a person lies down to go to sleep, it takes about 20 minutes for the natural chemicals the brain releases (melatonin and others)  to begin their work. Actually it is the darkness, behind closed eyes, that causes these chemicals to begin to alter our state of conciousness, as in meditation.


The problem is that I can't seem to transcend into Beta. I can come close at times, but most of the time, I cannot. It's frustrated, and it's hindering my ability to get to a sufficient level where I can AP properly.

The intent is important, to calm the mind and let it happen. Perhaps just to watch the darkness behind your eyes, as you "wait" for the calming effect of your own natural body chemicals  to kick in

Hoping to help,
Donna

There was a suggestion for me to take my time. Instead of trying to go into theta at first, stay within alpha. 10Hz is a significant frequency. Transition down to it, then stay there briefly, and then go to low alpha. You can even have alpha with eyes open and no significant alterations in your consciousness. Alpha is common. It is familiar. When you can transition down to low alpha successfully, you will be able to transition to high theta. What I learned recently about the Silva methods for mind control is that unlike hypnosis, normal conscious awareness is to be kept with you even as you descend into theta. They even teach a sort of remote viewing technique. That can easily transition into projection. I am working on it, and maybe the brainwave generator program could speed things up.

Okay, let's try something a little more open-ended:

What problems did Projectioners first experience and how did they overcome them? It seems no one's responding to my questions. Is it because they can't relate, or because they don't know? Or is it because they feel my questions don't warrant an answer?

quote:

2) I have observed that my face / head are never truly relaxed. When I try and induce an altered state, my body—particularly my arms and legs—become relaxed, though never extensively to the point where I am no longer aware of them. I question if there is a method to get around this or whether or not my face need be numb—regardless of what I have said, I realize the complication of the fact that when I've achieved vibrations in the fast, I have experienced complications around my face area that have hindered my progress entirely—problems which I will explain below.



I have this same problem, but ive only been trying to ap for a couple days now....  

It feels like my hands, no my arms are coming out of where they should be and I can move them anywhere I want, but the rest of my body is not relaxed enough to have the same FEELING... And that is what I think it is, a feeling... BUT, im NOT giving up on this.  Are there any solutions to get me more relaxed?  I try the muscle thing but maybe I don't get my body throughly enough......Will it matter that much if I lay down when trying to project?  Ive been sitting in a chair that doe'snt have good neck support so my neck is sore after an hour of meditation...

I have a question I would like to ask advanced projectors.. My hands feel REALLY RELAXED and sometimes even though I know the position they are in physically they FEEL like they are in a different position.  I.E. when they are palms down they feel palms up or even sometimes I can move them around my body, but when i do this or try to put pressure on them I feel no actual pressure... Is this just a side affect of the trance state or Is this what projection feels like, except for the WHOLE body...  


sorry to get so far off topic but I always get concerned with other things...

=nick=