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As prescribed by Blackstream I've been glancing at my hands repeatedly throughout each day, for about two weeks. I very much believe in the concept of conscious repetition = subconscious habit, but for the life of me I can't seem to trigger lucid dreams through this method (or at least not yet).

When I first had two lucid dreams a year ago, it just "happened", perhaps from just reading about it. Maybe I'll just engulf myself into the readings again, but Blackstream claimed this method was the best (with conviction!) that I'll continue on with that also...

Stuart Wilde says that "pot rots your etheric".

As if use punctures holes in the energy/astral body.

I really value the moderators (and senior members) opinions on these topics, so I'd greatly appreciate your input.

Hi,

Which way do the chakras naturally spin? Clock-wise?

Clock-wise to suck energy inwards?

Counter-Clock-wise to exert energy outwards?

So if I'm wanting to magnetize all my energy towards my heart chakra, do I spin it (from my perspective) down-left-up-right-down, etc? Or wait, that would be counter-clock-wise (from my perspective) and I would spin them by going down-right-up-left-down? That would be clockwise and sucking energy in, right?

Hi,

I've been seeing a lot of stuff on T.V. and on the net of people like Brane and the ellusionist.com guy levitating, and even having products out to teach people how to.

Anyone here capable of doing it?

I've been having some great amounts of tinglings occuring on my frontal lobes (forehead) for the past couple weeks since reading some Neil Slade documentations.

I've had tinglings before this in other places like my left-ear which is still highly persistant, however since playing around with N.E.W. on my forehead area, especially during the time that I'm in trance-state, a blemish popped out in between my brows, right in the 3rd eye area.

I thought it curious, but then a day later a second blemish occured parallel and right above the first blemish. They are lined-up, so to speak.

I do not have 3rd-eye vision, but I'm wondering what this is symbolic of? Is my body saying that the 3rd-eye circuitry is developing? Is that why the blemishes are popping up there in parallel? They aren't exactly pimples/zits. I have dry skin so I don't really ever get any blemishes, so these really are interesting.

Any coments?

I have never AP'd, or had a clear-cut case of an OBE.

However I have had two experiences of something different:

Both cases occured in the middle of the night. I remember being somewhat conscious in perhaps a theta-state. Suddenly I had the urge to roll my eyes back like lightning (or perhaps it wasn't my eyes but the sudden urge of shocking myself) and I was suddenly floating through an abyss of darkness. It felt, dare I say, just as real if not more real than actual life. It was like falling down through an abyss yet the direction wasn't necessarily DOWN like gravity would usually portray. It was like being pulled around through dark-matter. In both cases I'm in paralysis which was scary (being my first time).

In the second occurence, there was a more subtle transition into the abyss and this time I wasn't being pulled around. I think this is because the 'being pulled' is from my resistance or fear or whatever I was projecting that went against the grain of the state, so to speak.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Namaste.

Hi,

Are many people familiar with the spinning technique recommended in the Bringers of Dawn book? I'm sure there are.

To sum it up, I:

1.) Spin from left to right about 33 times.
2.) Focus on my right thumb.
3.) After spinning, stand grounded with hands prayer-style at chest-level until the 'dizzy' spell subsides.

My opinion on what this does is, angular-motion is created and when you stop, the resistance between your body and the effect the 'dizzy' spell has on your cerebellum, etc, then effects the chakras. It increases the speed at which the chakras spin, and I assume this also directly or indirectly affects the cells within the body also.

---

Well my question in regards to the spinning technique is:

I perform it 3 times a day, and have only done it straight for a solid week or so. What I'm noticing is that the dizzy-spell is subsiding and is almost non-apparent now. The pleidians said to work your way to performing the spinning 'slowly'. I've been doing the technique by spinning rapidly as I would assume this would be the most effective, yet the Pleidians write as if you should go from doing it fast to doing it slow...I have been hesitant of trying to do it slow as I don't think it truly has as much effects than doing it fast. But then again, the dizzy-spell is becoming non-existant, so I'm wondering what I can do to keep the pace at which I'm excelling steady.

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I'm a pretty young guy and I haven't had as much experience with all of these new-age techniques as many here probably have. My take is that gaining 'experience' isn't on the same scale as it used to be. In fact, it is changing everyday. I think time is collapsing and people can learn more in 1 year nowadays than they could in 5 years 10 years ago...I may be wrong, but I think this is a fundamental transition to the speed of progression accelerating.

I'm trying to wake-up information from my cells as I think this should be my main task right now. I have no wish to accelerate spiritual evolution or necessarily tamper with the astral-realms (unless I have to) because those are areas of existence (dark-matter) that we can experience for eternity when not in 3D form, so I'm not sure if I feel comfortable escaping for brief periods when I have a task/assignment to accomplish here. I'm one of those koo-koo's who thinks their a light-worker here to meddle with the time-locks attached to primary-events, and their reinforced parallels. I guess there's worst things to claim to be, eh? []

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So if anyone can help me with the spinning technique, so that I can optimize it to maximum effiency, I would be very grateful.

Namaste.

First you must separate Gurdjieff and his teachings from this particular "group" you have encountered. If I were you, as you say "incredulous" from your email, then I wouldn't be able to feel comfortable joining a group that is rigid.

So trust your instincts and drop this idea of even interacting with them. Your inquiries in regards to "satanic" aspects have no relevance or bearing to what the 4th-Way introduces to "spirituality", or I should say, conscious-evolution.

The main-effect intended to be produced by 4th-Way principles is the shedding of personality-based-attributes/qualities that exist in us like filth on fine-china. We do not realize it. We are not aware of it. There is a gradation, a scale in which one form of consciousness supersedes another. Gurdjieff uses the terms [(1) sleep - (2) waking sleep/relative-consciousness - (3) Self-consciousness - (4) Objective-consciousness] to present the different states and levels of perception that adhere to a corresponding Knowledge which is acquired by the objective-discernment upon quantums of datum. Hence wisdom.

Regardless of what I say -- of what efforts I exert into explaining the theory -- ultimately the "Work" is relevant only in its practical application. Once you dedicate yourself to read Gurdjieffian principles and THEN apply them in your daily-regime, you will begin the struggle. This struggle is like the results of two pieces of sandpaper producing friction which each swipe against each other. (1) Energy is produced and (2) two aspects are "smoothened" when one conquers over the other. What occurs in the frame-of-mind of the individual as a consequence can only be described subjectively. Therefore to know it, you must do it. It can't be acquired by short-cuts or by clinging to what the new-agers call "love + light". It has to be earned, and ultimately I believe all humans know that this truly is the only path towards conscious-evolution -- such an evolution that has certainly no affinity to "satanism".

You may find a group. They may be a good group or they may be a tainted group. What is important is that you realize that the "Work" is not strictly dependent on others -- on the contrary, it is based upon "freeing" onself from all forms of externalities. There are many paths to truth. It is just that these paths adhere to the law of scales just like everything else. Particularly that one is more objective-by-nature than the other. If you follow one path, let that be your path by all of your dedication and daily-conscious-labors, but don't let an organization be instrinsic in your development. It is but a tool for your growth and if the people comprising it help you in spotting your mechanical-traits and faults, then horray! But if they do not, then move on. Simple as that.

It must be said that some people appreciate and value one sort of "Way" more than others. Myself for example, I am very new to it, yet I have such a higher valuation of its principles that my mind has naturally crystallized many things in a short period of time. Now I feel comfortable speaking in regards to the many facets, the many aspects of the Work, because I have empirically established their practice in my daily-life. Once anyone sincerely does this, true valuation and understanding of the principles-at-hand arrive.

It's important to continue reading until you have your own definite answer.

You're right about the difference in perception of two different people. But then so you need to attain the ability to discern between these types -- which is higher or lower than the other in objective-sensibility.

Does a blue-light in the corner of their eye occur periodically? Does it have meaning or is it just an occurence. One man may only see it. The other may see it and sense it. Yet another may see it, sense it, and understand it. So what does that tell you needs be done for someone who yearns for man #3-perception? Does it make you itch to gain such foresight/objective-perception or not?

Our interests lead our actions, and then our identity forms that which we implement into our daily-conscious-selves. So once you go from Don Juan and read of this detachment from self-importance and the subsequent abilities to change ones perspective (assemblage point), this may lead you to want to specifically ascertain if this writer describes it to liking of that person who reads it. It may not trigger a conscious motivation to rise from one level of perception to another -- this requires sacrifice -- what Gurdjieff calls in his first-series, "Beezlebub's tales to his Grandson", "being-Partkdolg-duty" which is the combination of two things: (1) conscious labors and (2) intentional suffering. This can be likened to Don Juan very much and seeing that the latter MAY be a subsequent result of the formers arising, it may all lead to different perspectives of the same source of training required to rise in perception.

For example, once you take something like this under your wing and actually devote yourself to at least individually put relatively some effort, then your actions in themselves should always be towards this aim. Like for example, did I respond to you for your sake, or did I post it for that reason plus for the principle of transcribing my thoughts of this subject to you, therefore honing my ability to think holistically and provide you with something that not only benefits you from it alone but also benefits me by the practice itself. It's precisely this type of compound-thinking-doing that needs to be applied. You cannot due anything OR see anything for just one reason alone (at a time) -- you have to combine things at every moment. You have to do two things at once - for two purposes at a time - that is how you make progress. A master juggler who throws 5 balls in the air is only an amateur to a master juggler who throws 8.

Trust your instincts.

The "Work" is highly intrigueing -- I personally make it a daily-regime to follow the 4th Way. I may not be following a Gurdjieffian-group, but I know that from their perspective, clandestine/cagey tactics are necessary. It may sound "iffy" to you, but I assure you if you continue to read, you will understand that by the very nature of man, it is necessary to operate such organizations within concentric-circles.

What you bring up is peculiar because you are speaking of one group, one set of individuals. By the very nature of man, what is pure originally is distorted progressively as it is passed down.

In regards to supernormal-abilities, this is a very complicated subject. Some people learn to acquire particular abilities while others gain the ability to uplift themselves in conscious-perception to such a degree that all supernormal-abilities are very practically percieved -- if you can understand the significance of this, you will see that there is a big difference between learning to do something and understanding the interwined-nature of every Science connecting all these phenomenons by practical-cosmic-laws.

So the Gurdjieffian movement can be very fruitful -- yet for those who progress in such an organization, by their conscious-perception, learn to view those who have not yet reached such heights in such a way that secrecy is for their own good. Imagine going back 2000 years ago when tribal-religion and dogma was the supreme form of science among the politicians and imagine someone giving them guns. An extreme example, but for one who has reached a mature-consciousness, that is to say an objective-outlook, the realization of such NEEDS for cagey behaviour becomes quite understood.

If you can view these thoughts impartially, that is quite a feat by itself -- but if you experience emotions that lead your thoughts and actions (instead of the other way around) then perhaps you should delve into this subject further. All knowledge is already dispersed for seekers to dig and find...what's funny is that people don't realize that one seeker may find a rock, the other an apple, the other a treasure, the other a dead-body, et cetera. Everything is there, yet we only find what we are able.

[years]

Hey Stephen,

It's not my place to label Yoga anything, but with all of the various types of alternatives, I'm reluctant to ever try it (given SW's caution), and I'm sure you understand why for someone (me) who has never tried it. (ie. why even bother?)

If SW's "ghouls" do exist, I'll definately take some of his caveats to practice. It's not as if I am taking up any midnight rituals or anything. I do find it interesting in regards to what he says about the positions which point your rear-end to the sky...you never know Stephen, and when you live life, you have to discern between certain things with your gut.

I'm sure you're right with your eccentric example, but that seems to be kind of like a red herring -- SW says that those who practice Yoga incessantly for years denote these attributes...and this is from his empirical observation (ie. of friends, of acquaintances, etc) rather than his watch for odd-balls dying from a physical distortion.

Warm Regards,

I learned Qigong from an inexpensive book by Stanley D. Wilson. I just practice it everyday -- Tai-Chi and Yoga branched off from Qigong. They are specific towards different styles. Stuart Wilde says Yoga is dangerous. [B)]

In regards to protecting yourself from the T.V....it's not really "that big of a deal" in my opinion. There are certain remedies that some people speak about...takyon shields (http://montalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=303), or perhaps even colloidal silver? I'm sure just keeping your mind "on-guard" does a great deal.

Spectral,

Cool down your ego for a moment and try NOT getting involved. Castaneda calls it "not-doing" and it may be useful.

Your message is subtly manipulative.

[controlled-environment]

Listen carefully from someone who isn't any authoritative-figure whatsoever.

There is a difference between censorship and a controlled-environment.

Especially when a discussion-board/forum of this size and magnitude is the case. Do you believe the moderators are here to block the truth? Do you believe they are trying to abridge your free-will?

The moderators have all the right to m-o-d-e-r-a-t-e and therefore protect the integrity of this forum from manipulation. Stand-back and look at it from a mature perspective -- playing the victim blinds clarity.

If you cannot handle their rules and protocols, then you are free to establish your own forum, your own discussion-board, and moderate it to your satisfaction. You may see one day that with growth comes responsibility.

The T.V. info is not from my own empirical experience. But I do have faith in the credibility of such statements.

So with that said, besides for the ELF-undercurrents which probably could be picked up by specific instruments, when turned on, the screen operates with a strobe-light. These types of lights induce a light-hypnotic state to those watching. Notice in the last so or so years, all government and commercial lights have been converted to strobe-lights. (ie. Do you remember the old types of siren-lights on the police-cars? They were replaced with strobe-lights).

The ELF itself is what is turned on 24/7 just by the T.V. being plugged in. This presupposes a lot of things but it's food for thought.

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Qigong, in frank-terms, is rhythmic breathing in conjunction with certain postures. There are many types and there are many branched-off activities that come out of it, such as Yoga, Tai-Chi, etc. Qigong has been passed down from before our dated history, which may imply it is something that has survived the last cataclysm -- it may has well come from the culture of Lemuria and/or all of those specific cultures back then (ie. Atlantis, Osiris, etc).

By coordinating stretching with breathing, one is consciously taking control of both the moving-center (posture) and instinctive-center (breath). This promotes clearage of "chi"-blockages and blood-circulation, not to mention all of the other little details. Pal-Dan-Gum, for example, is instructed to people in Korean hospitals who have a terminal-illness. The instructor of the book I initially bought, Stanley D. Wilson, ameloriated his cancer by its dedicated use.

I know of people who have cleared their physical-distortions such as tinitis from long-term use of Qigong.

So your wish 'may' come true! It all depends on your level of discipline which arises from your dedication.

As long as you aren't using your imagination. For example I used to listen to music and become swept away in my thoughts, or deep into my imagination.

It interferes if you are doing that, but if you are just using music which relaxes you, then I'm sure it's not a big deal.

On the other hand, I would recommend practicing abstinence from all such externalities -- you will benefit to a maximum degree if you practice N.E.W., Qigong, and whatever else of the sort, in silence. Part of this is because what people call "Astral-hearing", which is the "ssssss"-type noise, I believe is important. But more importantly, people seem to need motivation and then become dependent on something, be it music, or T.V., or some blondes walking by your place...etc, etc. I used to listen to music while doing Pal Dan Gum, but I realized it wasn't helping but rather hindering my progress. How much time in a day are you awake? How much time do you put into your energy-work? If it is about 1 hour or less in a day, than it would be a good idea to refrain from other influences which may interfere with your "work".

That's just my opinion from my empirical studies. I only share it with you because Pal-Dan-Gum'ers seem to be a rare commodity

T.V. also, just by being plugged in, operates under ELF (Extremely low frequencies) which affect everyone near it...not to sound like a conspiracy-theorist, but I'd recommend you do it away from it.

And I'm not sure about your experience, because we are all relatively quite different and as Super_Deluxe has said, perhaps it's just your clearage of some blockages.

I practice Pal Dan Gum every morning also and practice N.E.W. before bed every night.

I wouldn't do N.E.W. while watching T.V.. Part of energy-workouts, in my opinion, is to focus your attention on your body (ie. T.I./M.B.A.), and T.V. by nature pulls much of your concentration away from any such activity.

It's very interesting how different sources describe the same thing. It often dilutes any efforts by the reader whom spread their interests thin among them -- Castaneda, Gurdjieff, Osho...

But I think it all comes down to levels of consciousness. For example Gurdjieff labels consciousness in the following manner:

Man #1 - Physical
Man #2 - Emotional
Man #3 - Mental

Man #4

Man #5
Man #6
Man #7

Man 1, 2, and 3 are in the state of "relative consciousness". They are mechanical in nature and are locked in their assemblage point. Or it is better said that they do not have the "key" necessary to realize that they feel, think, and act in cyclical patterns. Instead of spiraling upwards (ie. progression), they move foward and backwards, covering the same track repeatedly ad infinitum. It may be appropriate to label this path that of disintegration rather than evolution.

Man #4 is the milestone that denotes the necessary accumulation of objective-influences that in-effect allow a loosening, a lubrication of the assemblage point. I know Castaneda also speaks of this but due to my lack of recollection on his specific point, I will speak in regards to what Gurdjieff describes as the "magnetic center". Common Science lacks much information that leaves us without the proper ingredients to understand the integral nature of such a formation of a center, but it is safe to say that once it begins to form, it attracts influences of its complex nature to Man #4.

In simple terms, for Man #4 to evolve to 5, 6, and 7, the key fundamental activities must occur psychologically. These activities are what Castaneda calls "stalking", Gurdjieff calls "self-remembering" in combination with observation/self-study of negative-emotions, habitual/mechanical/cyclical habits, and perhaps most importantly what he calls "identification" -- all attitudes towards all impressions we recieve, all moments in our life in which "programs" are triggered in multiple levels within our being, are moments of Identification. For example I may be writing this post on AstralPulse while my sister may come beside me and start talking on the phone with one of her friends for a straight hour. This commonly triggers the program of irritation. The state of being irritated is a state of identifying. Furthermore when one is identified with a program, one is not self-conscious and is the epitome of mechanical behaviour.

So by studying oneself and acting against the grain in which we are accustomed, one accumulates energy, one strengthens the magnetic center, and most importantly, one greases the wheels of the assemblage point.

Man can be divided into two categories:

1.) Essence
2.) Personality

We are born with essence and it is what we come to life with and take with us when we die. Personality, on the other hand, is artificial and is the embodiment of the mechanical-self. It is dominant in Man #1, #2, and #3, and due to its reign, the essence submits and slavishly diminishes in presence until perhaps it dies off altogether, for example in 98% of our Politicians. Personality locks the assemblage point and by its General "ego", builds a fence around the essence, imprisoning it to seclusion. This is the way of the grain and to free the essence and finally feed it a friggin hamburger, one needs to go against the grain and create internal-conflict, "friction", which by its action may spark that which may overthrow the mechanical system and replace it with something more suitable and appropriate.

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I also want to add that what allows those to view the assemblage point is the connection between the lower-centers to the higher-centers. The various centers of the mind-body-spirit complex are fueled by DIFFERENT types of energy. They are not all and one the same. One car is fueled by diesal. Another by hydrogen. Another with gasoline. The higher-centers are fueled by energy which is far finer than that which circulates through our ordinary centers. Therefore when one attains a connection between their lower and higher-centers, the finer substances run rhythmically through the body and mind, and permit perception of reality to unfold objectively. Auras can be seen, energy can be consciously controlled and distributed (ie. healing), telepathy other so called "magical" attributes arise, and most importantly a higher perspective is gained by the person. Imagine several birds in the sky: Three of them, each above the other. They represent Man #5, #6, and #7.

I just read Ouspensky's "In search of the miraculous" and it greatly assisted me in my views of such concepts.

For example, evil occurs by mechanical means rather than conscious intentions. No one acts in favour of evil, they act in favour of their subjective intent(s). When you take a mass of people with subjective perspectives, they are bound to clash and therefore one thing is evil to one person through his eyes while it may be good for someone else through their eyes. A peculiar example would be easily portrayed by perhaps contrasting an Aboriginal with a Cardinal Bishop. Surely they will find evils in one another.

Furthermore general 'evil' occurs through lack of self-consciousness in the moment. When one is mechanically walking, acting, and thinking under a routine, they are generally not responsible for what they "do" since their behaving like machines rather than sentient-beings.

And in regards to scale, evil is "evil" when magnified. If one begins to visualize and think in bigger and bigger scales (ie. the "bigger picture"), the concept of evil successively loses its substance. In most cases it may just be classified as a subjective opinion...a form of manicheanism (: the urge to rule the world) in which case a person believes they have the right to judge nature, the environment, the earth, the Universe, and so forth.

Blackstream,

I've been looking at my hands repetitively for weeks and I've yet to activate lucidity by it.

I did it outside by a neighbours lawn and was consequently hosed down by a very stern lady.

Will chirping like a bird while performing this technique help at all?

---

It's probably just due to the plethora of activities on my plate that are hindering my lucidity. Just felt like sending you a terse note about my progress -- or lack of.

Have a good day.

gravy,

I strongly caution you to NOT encourage others to buy that product.

It's a clone of www.subliminal-power.com

I bought it a while back, and through research found out that it is complete garbage. Any results that come from purchasing it and running the program come from your own manifestation. Nothing should be attributed to its technicality. Subliminal messaging does not work in this manner. The popcorn example many of these websites use was also revealed to have been a hoax.

I really have to jet out the door right now, but if you guys want additional support, I'll be obliged to research it again for you -- I don't want others to waste money like I have...

Seven, I've been having the camera-flash from my third-eye also. Your current description of your progress sounds like where I am at. Except I haven't been putting effort into the exit as of late. I've basically just turned my every-night to brushing-techniques (my lazy version of N.E.W.), but with cube getting me excited with this thread, I'll start reapplying some will-power.

Hey cube,

I practice brushing-energy techniques at bed-time every night and every time I end it at cue to the "urge" to switch positions in bed. It's always like, let's get all of the parts done before "it" comes!!

I'm really glad I took the time to read this thread. Do you think my energy-workouts will impede anything towards a possible AP/OBE? If I resist the urge to switch positions, is that when the vibrations come, like during or after Focus 10?

Anyways, thanks for the tip -- I also have the swallowing-urge, which I'm sure Nay remembers my complaints about, but I don't think that plays a big role in upsetting the process...unless you think it does and let THAT plague your mind.