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Interesting.
But are there places most of you, the ones that can project, are visiting often. Like meeting each other, leaving something for others to find or just interesting place to learn.
A common location or main "node". Places with intellectual entities, that will recognize you next time you project.

E.g. the easiest way to check if you're in a dream is intensively trying to communicate with surrounding entities. Most of them will show some dull responses, but dissolve in a short time.
What places hold most stability?

Since i've not projected myself, because of this my question might be completely invalid.

What most known meaningful or solid locations are out there?
Many of the projections seem to end up in random places, or border on lucid dreaming where environment might be created by the projector. What are the "closest" (to our physical world) and most related locations that can be easily reached. Ones that can be observed by multiple projectors, where "stuff" can be changed and remains more or less permanent from projection to projection and from person to person visiting the place.

Indeed. I do.

What i've noticed, that even the " mental response"' (noticing and thinking about the signal too much) can cause your body not to fall asleep. It just becomes more alert and uncomfortable of the state.
Once i red that one cant actually sleep while plain on back, but that i believe is wrong.
Btw most of my successful attempts (got vibrations etc, no real obe) were while lying on my back.
So when i think i might start to feel uncomfortable while on back, i start to loosen the focus and let my attention drift away a little. When the body starts  "shutting down" the weird sensations usually pull the focus back, and i have a good starting point for experimentation.

[Others skip to here:]

After some not doing anything for a longer time i've returned to my tries with AP'ing.

A bit of background for those interested:
My biggest problem was falling asleep, no matter how i tried, i could sleep by loud music, alarm clocks.
I always failed to stay awake when relaxed, was it morning, evening or the middle of the day.

I've had some very unconscious success with binaural beats and some random vibration occasions when accidentally falling asleep in an uncomfortable pose, when i usually freaked out and "denied" vibrations because i was not expecting them and got confused.

Others skip to here:
Lately i've tried to experiment with possibly simple techniques, not requiring any additional aids (music, alarm, binaurals, deep silence) or complex attention exercises (which either keep you too alert/conscious for proper relaxation, or make you wander off in some unconscious dream).
So the technique is following - simply lie on your back and keep your arms to the both sides of you, at comfortable angle.
Then hold your fingers in similar way (pick the mundra - finger you touch with thumb, you think is best for you):

And the trick is keeping your hands with the palm facing upwards. Because when you put your hands parallel to your body or at small angle, your palms rest at approximately 45 degree angle. So you have to turn them a bit to make them face upwards.
Balance the amount of tension so that the hands are pointing up as much as possible but are still comfortable and allow you to relax.

Now what i've experienced is that this slight force is too little of a distraction to keep you away from falling asleep comfortably, since the hands are well resting on the bed (it's not like sitting and meditating when its almost impossible to fall asleep). Still, when i'm already wandered far away in my imagination and start to drift away, my palm relaxes and returns to its resting position, drawing my attention away from the unconscious wandering and leaving in an odd sleepy state.

I know it's not much, but still for me it seems as a decent and reliable way of capturing and extending the awake/asleep transition. And i can adjust the state at which my attention is "reset", by varying the amount of force i apply to keep my palm facing up. The more i allow my hand to rest, the more dreamy the state at which i regain consciousness is, but then the risk of falling asleep completely increases aswell.
It is even better because of its double action - finger tip separation, palm relaxing.

Since the time (and the concept of it in general) in physical ("real") world and when "being out" is not directly linked (unless the place/time/dimension you visit is close/realtime) how come so many OOBE's i have red about in here have very similar length (approx. 5..30 minutes) in time and actually do have a real, perceivable time (at least described by travelers).

Is it linked to the speed of thought process, "real" world time counting habits, majority of OBEE's taking act in "real time zone", energy required to process information (influencing the count of events/thoughts expierienced, and only later interpolated over physical worlds time scale) or does it have completely different explanation.

Looking from a more practical perspective. If one wants to explore surrounding world, by moving around it , so in a way interacting with matter (by a way of exploration so close to physical world), which must have be linked to space and thereby time (since they come together as spacetime), at least in the explorers "head"... there will be some more or less objective time scale which might influence the explorer to return. But if someone projects, for example to explore a thought.. an idea or concept, it is not necessary to end up in world so entangled to physical one... how should one proceed to projection to get into such type of realm... because at the moment you perceive projection as "getting out", "exiting", "traveling" its too constrained to ways of physical world. And if one manages to get in such state, it might be an eyeblink in "real" world (not consuming any sleep time, body resources, only little load on the brain while receiving and processing memories about experience, if its needs to be transferred to brain at all) while an eternity have passed thinking during projection.

P.S. I hope my English is at least understandable and my ideas aren't too cluttered.

  Ive noticed that during whole year there are few times this happens(already 4..5 times experienced this).
  This happens during sleep. Everything is as normal until one point where i have a sensation of something imminent, and other sensation that "asks" me to confirm if im ready "to begin" or something like that(hard to describe, but it feels very similar).
  When i mentally confirm/advance to this something noise like state kicks in by wavy-like sensation filling whole my dream body and replacing all my dream or any world senses. At this point all there is(all i feel, hear, see, think) is something i could describe like scanning trough entire fm spectrum - mostly static, with some stations or mix of them: voices/music etc. So for few(~10) seconds this thing is rushing all over me, and after the initial "kick" feels quite pleasurable, then in few seconds it fades away, leaving me completely conscious and awake and a little buzz still in my head/body slowly fading away.
  So what is this, already quit regular occurrence. Is this spontaneous vibrations one can use to project? Is it just a dream (im quite in doubt coz usually during them i feel very conscious, like being already woken up and then thrown in this soup of noise), or something else.
So if its vibes, how do i prolong them/get OBE, if not any suggestions on what could it be welcome.

I apologize that i havnt followed all of the conversation, bit i saw some phrases and it seemed wrong to me.
The idea, that if obe happens in our brain means its not real? Why not? If we assume that brain is i (which i believe is only partially).
Then we could call any expierience unreal. Even the real life in front of your eyes. If one had red a basic theory of sight, colors and vision (even such as written for photographers and artists, not some doctors), you would see that the picture you feel you're directly seeing just isn't there in front of your eyes... all the shapes, colors and objects are pure creation of your own mind - interpretation of enormous amounts of raw data being fed into us or created within us...

...Maybe...

Btw i recommend reading something about "Boltzman Brains". i guess one of the best places to start at would be here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain

I think most of you are too negative and have too little tolerance against science. I mean, the idea of science forces it to begin in such ways. Science needs to know the details. It cannot philosophize about OBE in general. So can you suggest any better way/place to start seriously research obe in a scientific way, than to start with physical senses. Is there anything else we can probe?

I mean, if we could at least by any means detect or measure any of the spiritual stuff(like astral body and similar) im sure we would do so. but now we are only able to research our brain physical conditions and stuff.
I believe it would be much smarter to work with people who are actually able project, and test from where their senses and brain states come from.
Anyways, dont judge scientists so hardly, they just needs to do it their way, and maybe some they they will be able to define word spirit in a rational sense.

I think they are just doing what they can, according to our current theoretical knowledge and technological possibilities. Yes, it might be small steps, like starting with things they can probe(point of self awareness, different feelings felt during OBEs, it can all lead to whats causing them) but at least they are trying to get somewhere instead of denying OBEs at all as some nonsense.

Thought that some of you just might have it interesting to read:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12531-outofbody-experiences-are-all-in-the-mind.html

Maybe this is a little more related to consciousnes, not NDE but, people who have been under full anesthesia dont recall a thing either. Its wierd, because you might thinks its something like going to sleep, but as i have been told its like, you get connected to the thing, and you dont feel any sleepy, nothing at all, at one point after you get "plugged" to the system you just realize its already the next day after operation, in a different place. No blacking out, no waking up, just missing piecie.

Damit, maybe a little offtopic, but sometimes it pisses me off, that i perfectly understand , things lke Novice is talking about or written in some FAQ's or sticky'ies, the feel and stuff, can imagine them, could nearly imagine feeling them, but still unable to project. I duno what to compare even, hmm since im a pc geek i could describe it as system that i perfectly know(like windows), but im being stopped from programming and exploring the internet at the very point that i have no electricity(or the pc itself) to turn on the pc.
on the other hand, maybe iv'e red so much(actually not that much...) that i think i know very good how things are and should be and because of this im looking in completely wrong direction.

Duno, for challenge/verification sounds bad, because, for example, anyone else who lives there could describe it.
But you could describe, your room for example, or some object near your house, which would be easy to imagine/target and someone could explore further from. I don't know how it works, just making conclusions from what i have red, better wait for someone experienced.

Not an expert bit i think you need something to mentally "attach", like a hyper link to you. If i for example try to mentally reach Nailrabbit, i imagine that i might end up in some "virtual" astral plane where i met your "online identity" - an entity, which represents your behavior here, my impression about the person which is made up from your posts I've red, your avatar etc.
I think you might pick an object, that cannot be mistaken, like your pet, a gift from a close person or anything else you could start from. Altought i have not projected yet, i have red that it is quite important to know where exactly you are going to actually get somewhere at all. Of course, you must pick something that doesn't tells to much to disclose your location or similar data .

P.s. Sorry about the bad English, haven't practiced a long time .

Some years ago, when i was still in high school, i was trying to project quite alot. I wasnt capable of doing conscious journeys, but anyways, i could get to vibrations, had varios interesting senses, like being pulled trought  Hydro-electric station turbines, heard voices that freaked me out, also had numerous unconscious "things" while asleep, like feeling as being squeezed to single point(singularity) and going trought some kind of colored gradients(i tought i was dying) etc. It was nothing special, or conscious, but still, those were some expieriences, i could learn from (like, where else in life you could lear how does it feels to be a single dot).

After finishing High School, i had to work, study etc, so i didn't had much time and energy(come home ... eat ... study .. 2 a.m .. fall asleep in no time) for that kind of stuff. Recently, i have, continued my attempts to project, but now its like there is no such stuff at all, if i lie down for projection or try to meditate, i don't feel any lightness, strange sensations, or any other astral projection related stuff, all i can feel or think about is sleeping ore some everyday problems. Interesting, since now my body is a bit improved and i don't get spine pain form meditation, or don't feel uncomfortable lying 2-3 hrs in my bed without moving, but i don't get any sleep paralysis, or something. Where is the problem, that nothing happens..nothing at all, even if i try even harder than before(on the other hand, not that often).

Can you do opposite? Like, its hard to get up with alarm, but if you drink a lot of water you just must wake up , or it would be to distracting?

Indeed interesting points...
BUT, where will you find a place without electronics in flat..city..? (even worse, my room is stuffed and was stuffed with all kinds of excrement, old PCB's, wires etc)
Second, isn't physical protection more important, like to be 100% sure nothing will go wrong in physical thus making feel safer and protected psychologically?

A little offtopic: even if i havnt projected, ive red numerous times (including this one) that electronics interfere with astral projection, so this means astral projection could(hmm, i guess its more like should, but who knows?) interfere with electronics/wires etc... so what observations, you, expierienced projecters, have made, maybe even some intended experiments, to get a starting point for some research.

Very interesting, infact, last night when i lied down to sleep (i guess ~ 3 o'clock, after doing some laboratory work reports and drinking LOTS of STRONG tea), i barely closed my eyes and felt something, like, slightly pushing my leg/touching my thumb, although i knew nobody was there(just closed my doors), i felt disturbed, but not as disturbed as when i could feel "that something" walking along my bed, up to my head/chest (i dont even know how to explain, i just lied down so i couldn't be dreaming), i was lying on side facing the wall, so that something what seemed to  be black (with my eyes closed, it just seemed) kind off leaned over me, i knew i was still fully awake, but i could also feel some strange trance like feeling, like i was slowly entering big empty, black hall...so i freaked out of the darkness and presence of something, immediately turned over and opened my eyes..of course no one was there...but im more than 90% sure i was about to leave my body..but not in the way i have always expected it to be...

Escuse me, but CRAP im sorry ..
congratulations, sounds just so great and exciting..heh for me almost the same problem, i keep slipping into dreams, already before exit :DDD ..and o\mornings .. omy god, i fall into my dreamland even before kclosing my eyes..

its been around year(or more) already and i havnt acheived it yet, but its because ive kind of stopped doing it, becos i have too little motivation to not fall asleep
But in the first months i got vibes and *maybe quite unconscious exit

Now im more on meditation at least then i dont fall asleep

i think someone just has to have a real goal, if you just want to project jo wont have the required motivation ot exit..like jst exit..and then, but if there is somewhere you would like to get or see..you know what u want to acheive ..

Could do the trick..sorry for spam...but..
some time ago i had no idea about projecting, i jused ti pick a single star in sky and koncentrate on it, imagining my self getting closer and closer to it..at some point you realize there is no surroundings  left..only the star..very strange sensations go trought you..

but i guess it shouldnt be like: whou i *think* im out..aproaching wall..hmm why there is cloud on wall..stay focused youre not dreaaming..ohh what a nice lake lets see why im under water inside bath in wood..somewhere..(waking up) damn i was just dreaming
whare is the limit/border what counts conscious whan unconscious..
on the other hand sometimes while "awake" i confuse things..like i look at people but in my mind they are preceived as pencils/or equations(very rare but happens)

First of all, i havnt projected..yet so i dont know how its either, but as i understand from what i read its one of those things you cant miss..like some say you will know when youre in love, if you doubt youre not..
..thing that can cause confusion is if you project from so sleepy state that your projection mixes with dream..since you "project" that way every night it cant be called a real projection..or its so dizzy after all that you cant tell if youre projected or not?

Its like everything is the same but something is going on..
Dont say you dont think nothings happening, some days im just panically running trought news..i just got the feeling that somethings on and i dont know it..its passing me by..
Or media has did this to me, programmed me in way i expect horrbile accidents to happen, because they show this to us as an event/braking news, not as a catastrphe?
Or its just my age..?

..Whatever, just tell me your opinion, wtf is going on!?

[edit] i could define it this way too:
i feel detached from something, like i know something is out there almost like tryint to find me/call me/tel me something..but i cant hear, i feel like im in box, so im using internet, te "get out" ... strange .. maybe its somekind of psychological disfunction, because of too much time by pc or smthing eles..enyway..discussions welcome

noo..im comparing..
imagine you have an equalizer/generator, in this case that is you and it has hundreads of sliders/potintiometers, you have closed/folded eyes and you dont know what each pin you touch do..and you have to get certain sound/frequencie...so by touching each pot/slider you explore how it changes sound until youre able to fully customize it to get sound you need..

..so and from this comparismet rises question, but what if id ont know what sound exactly i need...
so i need a sample sound to compare with..

and another idea popped out..once i lied in my bed, and tought, why the hell i shoudl drink, maybe i could reproduce that feeling when im drunken, instead of f***ing with my health. i tried to feel exactly the same as i felt when i was drunken..and i tryed to induce thos choppers/wibes when youre very drunken and whola they started to resonate/amplyfy/selfsustain...so if i knew the state of projectening i could reinduce it the same easy way, just on concentrating on those feelings/places in my head..

..yeah fun thing is that brain