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Hi Gandalf,

About automatic writing... What I do is just relax and get myself into a bit of a trance state where my mind is clear of thought and open. Like preparing for a conscious projection but nowhere near as deep. Getting the words feels a bit like receiving hypnogogic imagery, or like the voices you might hear when you are about to sleep... in a way, you just passively watch them. Don't let yourself think about what's coming next. Just write down what pops into your head. Until yesterday, I just wound up with bizarre combinations of words like: "Sing merry in the underground shards of titan. bring under brain curdle." (hehe) But it's been a way for me to experiment with my writing and come up with fresh and original imagery.

Yesterday felt WIERD and different to that. I actually felt my hand compelled to move in certain ways, like I imagine a ouija board would be. It happened very slowly, and the writing was pretty hard to read. When I started writing down questions with yes or no answers, I had a much better response. It came out quite clear.

Not sure what to make of it. Could be the subconscious talking - I believe a lot of psychologists use it for that reason. There's stacks of info on the net, just do a basic search.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi Olly,

Perhaps as you get less conscious of your physical body and further into the astral (it sounds like you are from the places you describe - that's the cool bit!)) the trouble with your conscious eyes seeing will go away? It hasn't happened to me visually, but I did start off projecting with generally more sensory input from my physical body than I do now.

Are the hallucinations you get in you room maybe some kind of false awakening? For me, this often comes hand in hand with paralysis. The panic used to be very hard to control for me too, but its gotten better with time. In a false awakening, I'll think I've woken up, but everything is kind of bizarre.  I also wonder if it might just be that you have immersed yourself in another state of consciousness, so it takes some time to adjust back.. This will probably sound silly, but I remember once I had a really full on massage, totally lost myself in it! and when it was over I couldn't see normally for about half an hour! It literally was like an acid trip.

Good luck. It sound like you're at some kind of turning point, so keep experimenting. I'm finding it interesting enough just to watch the twists and turns of my learning curve!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Funny this topic should come up. I think I met my guide today too, and like you Jeff, I don't remember very much about it.

I have been experimenting a bit with automatic writing lately, more as a way to get some ideas for poems etc. and come up with some cool imagery!  The process feels similar to becoming open to hypnogogic imagery. Anyway, today I decided to try it more as a form of communication (something I'm still a bit skeptical of) and I started asking some questions, basic yes or no and one word answers. I deduced that i had made contact with my maternal grandfather, who died of a sudden heart attack when I was two weeks old. I was his first grandchild, and I've always felt the absence of him in the physical world and wondered if he was "watching over me" - even as a child, I wondered. He told me to start singing again, and when I asked him if he was able to assist me with my Astral Projection, the answer was yes. I asked what I should call him, and he wrote "grandpa", which is interesting to me, because that's something we've never used in our family (or perhaps it was reserved for him??) - the others were "pop", "great-grandad" etc.  

Anyway, so I had a nap later on in the day, and woke up out of body. I called out "grandpa!" And there he was! I only have one photo, his wedding photo, so I'm not sure of the likeness or whatever. This man was about 40ish ? (my grandfather died at 47), and he had a very stable, comforting, earthy, gentle sense about him. We spoke, but I can't remember what we said because I woke up soon after and promised myself I'd write it down after another 5 minutes of sleep. GRR! Anyway, I do remember taking his hands and kissing them. There was a sense of love between us.

What does everyone think about this? I am a bit wary of entities pretending to be someone they're not. And the whole experience was so confused that I don't really know what to make of it. What are the chances of my "guide" being a deceased relative? What do you all think of automatic writing?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

While we're on fromat problems.... Is it just me or does everyone feel like they need a 68 inch long screen to view this site? IS THERE ANY WAY TO CHANGE THIS??? I think I'm going to go crazy if I have to keep scrolling my whole screen across just to read a post! Need an answer QUICK on this one, folks! Adrian?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi Greg,

My husband was physically beside me in bed, though whether I touched his physical or astral body I can't say.  I was directly above it, maybe 30cm, looking down. He didn't seem to respond when I touched him, he just looked like he was sleeping. But I was only there for what felt like about ten seconds or so before I lost control and came back to my physical body.

Meg



"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Waking up is a real stuggle for me too. Anyone got any ideas about how to regain waking consciousness more easily?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

This is for Ides315... Guess what? I made contact with my husband last night! I woke up with paralysis about 4am and went from there into OBE. He was right beside me in bed, so locating him was not a problem! I remember hovering above him in my astral body, and touching his face. In the morning he asked me had I projected last night, because he remembered a point during the night when he became conscious without waking, and felt me close by (not physically) There you go, its a start. YAY!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Yes, that's what I find most frustrating too! I said in another post that I have heaps of silly recurring dreams, lots of different ones, and most nights too. Occasionally I remember I'm dreaming and go into an OBE, but more often I wake up in the morning going "Damn, I dreamt my mobile didn't work but I didn't become lucid" or "Damn, I dreamt I had given birth to a litter of kittens and I didn't become lucid"!  Remembering is so difficult, even though I've writtten down a big long list of them all and I read it before I go to sleep.

Another trick I was told is to do a little action in your waking life every 15 minutes or so (I touch my earing for example) and eventually the action will come into your dreams, only the response will not be the same and you will realize you are dreaming. I'm positive that will work, but I'm having enough difficulty trying to remember to do it in the physical world!

Thank you for your idea, Jeff. I'll try that one too. I think we've all got little idiosynchracies we could utilise to become lucid, it's just a matter of identifying them.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Wow, Jennifer. That is one riveting story! It kind of reminds me of that movie Kpax with Kevin Spacey, hehe. I wouldn't have a clue what to make of all that, but I'm sure someone will - I've read snippits here and there about AP to other planets etc.

What I find so great about investigating this OBE stuff is the way it puts into context so many funny little things that you experinced in your childhood and adolescence. I've only just started getting into my reading, but I've been having spontaneous OBE's for about ten years - as you can imagine, I have an awful lot to put into context! It almost feels like rewriting my own history - talk about a journey of discovery!

About the meditation... I have never been able to get patient enough to meditate properly (shocking, I know), but I am just starting to be able to consciously AP. I mean, where I feel my exit, rather than just waking up out of body. So I guess the level of trance IS different to a regular deep meditation. I would imagine - and this is just my own observation not based on anything I've read - that you wouldn't have to be as still as you might imagine. I just do basic relaxation (feel my toes, calves, knees etc relaxing) and then focus in on the ringing sounds (which I see as just an added expression of the "vibrations" in my body) and start kind of pushing against my physical body, kind of like sitting up.  It has worked with mixed results, but it's a start.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Thank you, folks - discussion has clarified a few things in my mind that needed it.  I've had a lot of difficulty working out where mental illness comes into my changing views of things.  It's been a major issue in my life for a few years. The argument re: artists, shamans can definately be said for Bipolar -  It's in defining Schizophrenia where I've had the problem.

It's so sad. (sorry, I am about to rant.) I can't help thinking things could be so different for many of them.  A lot of it stems from the awful system that has been in place for so long. In Melbourne, all the old mental hospitals closed down a few years back. Which is a good thing, I think, were it not motivated by economic reasons and had they been actually replaced with something else. Anyway, most of my people are so institutionalised that they have no idea how to function now that they are back in society. And barbaric treatments like ECT have left some of them physically wrecked.

I have never wanted to invalidate what are essentially their realities by by calling them "fiction". It's frightening how real their worlds are, how tangibly their delusions come out. I even had one guy (and this is a true story, no matter how much it sounds like a bad telemovie) who actually believed I was his wife and pregnant with his child. It snowballed for a good year until it got to the point where he finally physically assaulted me and they moved him to another home. It was the saddest thing - I used to get so angry with him, literally driven to yelling at him that it was NOT TRUE. I remember how his face looked. Can you imagine how it would feel to him, how heart-breaking it must have been to have his "wife" constantly rejecting him and telling him to go away? The confusion of it. Poor kid.

But it's useful to be able to look at it as his inability to differentiate between his dreamstate and reality. The edges blurring into each other. It's something that will help me in daily ways, I think.

Meg




"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Same for me!

It's interesting to note that when I came to see the encounters as "real" - through starting to research more about astral projection - I was able to become more aware about what was happening, ie. actually had dialogue with the guy. In the past, they weren't real to me - I suppose I saw them as dreams (while being very careful not to think about it too much!) and just let loose with all my sexuality.

(In regard to my first post about this, you know what is funny? That when he said it was him "most of the time", I knew exactly which times he meant. I know when it's been him and when it hasn't; I am even aware of the "sensation" of calling him. I can't get over my naivety! Ah, all in the name of progress, right?)

And I think that's the difference. Now I know the "realness" of it, I just can't go back to doing it and deliberately be unfaithful to my husband. It's not the same as having fleeting fantasies about a movie star or something, its altogether a different story. You know what, though? For all of that, I haven't wavered in my commitment to him in the physical world... I've never really had much attraction to other men while in relationship, and I still don't. I think that the effects of my dalliances have come out in other ways, like the dreams I mentioned before. Which affect things between us none-the-less.

Thanks, guys.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Tisha, it's hard to hang onto the theories of artists and shamans when the daily reality is in your face. Particularly if they are having delusions pertaining to me, and I know that it's not true. The only way I can think to weave these two things together is to say that maybe they touch some place where their dreams reside; their fantasies and fears in tangible form. Maybe they can't tell the difference anymore. Like if you thought your dreams were happening in the physical world. Yes, that's EXACTLY what I mean! (Let my personal revalation be on record!)



"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Yep. Doona.


"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Interesting, Frank. Thank you.

Onto a tangent...The excerpt mentions Mental Illness and Dementia. I work with Schizophrenics, so I'm curious as to what everyone thinks about this idea of Mental Illness being an altered state of consciousness.

Because, although I find it really, really important not to romanticise the disease, I don't entirely want to part with the idea that my beloved "clients" (as we're told to call them) are in touch with other things that perhaps their " sick" minds cannot interpret.

What do you think?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

There's a quote I like to remember by Wordsworth:

"..which having been must ever be."

Meg

P.S. If I may ask an extremely corny, revolting question... what is your sun sign? I'm picking up capricorn.

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Er.. what is a comforter? It must be an American thing....

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

A natural and reflexive defense to anything bad?!  In my experience, becoming open to anything at all means becoming exposed to the nasties as well as the good stuff. People might REALLY disagree with me here, but I've noticed that it sometimes seems as if it is the people most naturally gifted with psychic ability that are the most screwed up. I think the most important thing is to take on only as much as you feel natural and comfortable with. Any fears or doubt you have will feed on themselves.  If you go out of body, bring yourself back before it gets too much.

Good luck!

Meg




"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Congratulations!  My experiences with AP started so EXACTLY like this, though you have the advantage of knowing more about what's going on! Just remember that it's an ongoing journey, and you have to take baby steps. Really, I had just as much fun simply figuring it out, working out little tricks - like how to know it was a false awakening. (The confusion has eased off as I got older, I'm not sure if that's typical or not)  Watching it evolve into something more and more exciting and meaningful all the time is the best bit, still, for me.

Let us know!

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Fallnangel, I would've made a big fat post in return, but you've already done it for me, and I doubt I've got very much to add!
--
Major Tom,  thank you very much for your feedback - I've taken your comments on board.

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

you could try pressing "back" on your internet program if you decide not to post.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Thanks guys.

It hadn't struck me before, but I remember being a teenager and using a kind of "checking in" device to test if I was dreaming or not.  I used to have this silly oversized light switch on the wall just above my bed, and if it didn't switch on, I knew that I was really still sleeping. Anyway, that is a fantastic idea. Thankyou, Frank. And it's really nice to be able to give a context to all those little experiences!





"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I think I know what you mean when you talk about "reaching out". I wonder if I may have unconsciously done this before?  - when you describe it, I have an almost sensory recognition of what you mean. I am positive I can recognise his "energy signature". Perfect description of it, by the way!

Yes, I most definately need to be aware of who's out there... I did once have a pretty nasty experience where some horrible entity came to me "dressed" as my husband, but it SO wasn't him - When I felt out for that sense of it, all I could feel was its hatefulness. It freaked me out so much that I didn't let myself go anywhere near the astral for ages.

Anyway, thank you so much. I will be experimenting!







"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

If we talk about fear being more to do with entering the vibrational state, perhaps it's the sheer tangibility of the emotion? I do remember that one of my most full-on OBE's came out of the power of jealousy, which could probably be likened to fear in many ways. Back story: My husband's ex-girlfriend was pretty into the esoteric in lots of ways, including AP. One night she came to "visit" my husband (this was when I was first exploring the whole thing) and made it into my dreams too. I remember being SO incensed, and saying to myself "Well, if she can come into my dreams I can go into hers" and heading off to sleep with the intention of telling her to leave us the hell alone. Well I did, but I tell you, no one wants to go into the astral world with that kind of agenda... (shiver at memory of scary excrement)...

So where do you draw the line? Certainly these feelings are strong enough to get us there, but I wonder if it's always that easy to let it go once you're out. Fear is a bit different to this I know, but everyone's always talking about emotions being able to dictate your astral experiences.

However, even when you think of basic "shivers of fear", you have to see the power of the energy generated.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Yeah, I have thought of that, but I'm not sure how to go about it.  I don't have very much control over things at this stage. My OBE's are pretty much spontaneous (though I can "set the scene" for one).

How do you go about meeting up with your wife? What kind of techniques do you use?

My husband doesn't actually AP but he is very spiritually aware in other ways. I'm pretty sure it would be possible to connect with him that way if I had more of an idea how to do it.

Thanks,

Meg




"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Interesting idea, though possibly not real healthy? Fear is certainly a very powerful emotion, and that would probably open you up more.  When I think about it, I probably used fear unintentionly when I started to AP, but it was more that the experience of charging my way through it that got me out there.  

Well, that's certainly one I never heard before, but I don't think I'll try it thanks...one too many scary demon-things have been in my bedroom already!

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson