I am putting together some new CD's to listen to in my car and want to know which Beatles songs are the best...
News:
Welcome to the Astral Pulse 2.0!
If you're looking for your Journal, I've created a central sub forum for them here: https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/dream-and-projection-journals/
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
#102
Welcome to Astral Chat! / "Finding Nemo" a Hit!
June 01, 2003, 03:14:03
I liked, not loved, all of the Pixar films that have come out so far (Toy Story, Monster Inc., etc.)
My wife and I finally had a little free time tonight and we went to see "Finding Nemo," the latest CG animated film from Pixar and we loved it.
I don't wont to do plot summary, but just know this: it's fun and it takes place in the ocean (duh!) and in Australia. I am a kid at hear, and will always be so, but I found that it worked for me as an adult...although little kids will love it the most.
Anyway, I recommend it to one and all.[
]
My wife and I finally had a little free time tonight and we went to see "Finding Nemo," the latest CG animated film from Pixar and we loved it.
I don't wont to do plot summary, but just know this: it's fun and it takes place in the ocean (duh!) and in Australia. I am a kid at hear, and will always be so, but I found that it worked for me as an adult...although little kids will love it the most.
Anyway, I recommend it to one and all.[
]
#103
Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Conscious projection face down...common?
May 20, 2003, 15:57:54
Last night I almost had an involuntary conscious projection while I was falling asleep. I happened to be lying face down, well, with my head turned to the side of course. Anyway, the vibrations were really strong and then I started to think too much, if you know what I mean, and the I lost it. I also got lazy and just fell asleep because I am not actively projecting this days, too busy and not enough energy and will...
My question, and I know this has been brought up in the past, is how many of you have projected or even felt vibrations while laying on the stomach instead of back. I USUALLY get vibes when I am laying on my back (and it often takes me longer to fall asleep on my back). Id this true for you too[?]
My question, and I know this has been brought up in the past, is how many of you have projected or even felt vibrations while laying on the stomach instead of back. I USUALLY get vibes when I am laying on my back (and it often takes me longer to fall asleep on my back). Id this true for you too[?]
#104
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Matrix Reloaded
May 19, 2003, 12:47:13
(so spoilers, so don't worry)---
I saw it Friday night...and...well, I don't really know what to think yet. I want to see it again, so maybe that's a sign that I liked it.
I'll just say this, I would have done things a little different if I had any say in the final cut. The movie was great, AMAZING special effects, but I didn't like the way the city of ZION was portrayed. Almost seemed like they portrayed it the way they did in order to reach a wider dempgraphic pop. or in other word to make more $.
ANYWAY- like I said, stunning CGI and action...but the narrative lacked something...and the Zion thing. I think you'll know what I mean after you see it.
ALSO- I think it is VERY difficult for a sequel to live up to the magic of the original, but that's obvious. the Godfather II is the only sequel I can think of that was as good, if not better, then the original.
Bottom line: great action flick and enough to get the noodle working. Narrative and plot a little muddled (narrative transitions a little weak) but in the end it's a visual rollercoaster with some hot kung-fu action.
Here is a real critical review from www.rottentomatoes.com:
---------------------------------------------------------
Review by Rob Vaux
Let's get it out of the way right now. The Matrix Reloaded will not duplicate the experience of the original Matrix. It will not catch us by surprise, dump us on our collective head and make us goggle in wonderment at the achievement placed before us. The first film was a sucker punch, an unseen blip that landed with the fury of a hurricane. Its innovation was matched by the fact that no one could see it coming -- a luxury that The Matrix Reloaded simply doesn't have. Warner Bros. has assaulted us with an advertising campaign of Napoleonic proportions, choreographing product tie-ins and rampant ads with smart-bomb precision. The resulting hype is more than any film can match, and The Matrix Reloaded simply doesn't scale the heights that have been set for it. Ask George Lucas, the man whose thunder they stole with the original: no matter how hard they try, they can never make it as good as we want it to be.
Having said that, The Matrix Reloaded is still pretty damn good. For all the hype and noise and attractive video games available on the exact day of release, directors Andy and Larry Wachowski still have a great creative concept at the core of it all. The Matrix presented a vision of the future at once both dystopic and exhilarating, a world that, while not entirely original, presented its ideas in a unique and compelling fashion. The Matrix Reloaded is content to further detail this world; not develop it so much as fill in the missing pieces (it goes without saying that the first movie is mandatory viewing for anyone who hopes to understand this one). Once more, we return to the far future, where the titular VR computer program convinces an enslaved humanity that it's living out a "normal" life in contemporary society. A rebel movement fights back against that enforced reality, led by the messianic Neo (Keanu Reeves) and his mentor Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne). The Matrix Reloaded focuses on the continuation of their quest, battling the sentient machines that keep humanity in chains. We see the spectacle of Zion, "the last free human city" as it falls under attack from without, while Neo and his compatriots seek the answers to prophetic riddles within the Matrix itself. We see the return of Agent Smith (Hugo Weaving), "cut free" by Neo's tampering and now possessing the ability to duplicate himself like a virus. And we see the expected phalanx of impressive fights and action scenes, on which the philosophy must depend lest the audience grow too bored.
All of it should be familiar to viewers of the first film, and it remains engaging enough, though we never really feel it the way we should. The acting is adequate, but was never great shakes to begin with (save for Weaving's wonderful Agent Smith), and the soap-opera subplots merely fill space rather than achieving any genuine resonance. Initially, much of it feels misplayed... though as The Matrix Reloaded continues, its "shortcomings" transform into hints of deeper mysteries, implications far beyond that which we already know. It would be more thrilling if we could see where it was going, but it cuts itself short, presumably saving the juiciest tidbits for the third part of the trilogy.
Therein lies the trouble. The Matrix Reloaded is doomed to remain frustratingly obscure, no matter how many convoluted explanations it provides. The Wachowskis pour a great deal of energy into esoteric matters, from Neo's deliberations on free will to the true purpose of the Matrix itself. Zion gets its fair due -- complete with imposing security devices and a rave/orgy featuring beautiful people in filmy clothes -- as do a few new parts of the Matrix itself. The machines are not without internal politics, it seems, and several "older programs" make their appearance as power-mongers, humble craftsmen, and threatening wraiths. It's all nifty stuff, but without the third film to complete the journey, it raises far too many questions to satisfy us.
What's left is spectacle, and in that department at least The Matrix Reloaded exceeds all expectations. The Wachowskis passionately revel in every corner of their canvas, and throw themselves wholeheartedly into the rampaging style that made the first film such a feast. We feel the energy of this universe from the very first frame, and the resonance of its vision still holds the power to delight. As a straight action film it runs circles around the competition, featuring a 14-minute car chase that may set a new benchmark and martial arts choreography by Yuen Wo Ping that's some of the most imaginative you'll see (and a good thing too, since Neo's status as prophesied savior sucks some of the drama out of his fights). Its underpinnings may be murky, but its bright noises and shiny objects are well worth the price of admission.
That's probably the most we can hope for at this stage. In the end, The Matrix Reloaded is a work in progress, the first half of a larger sequel that has yet to be completed. Until the finale arrives, we can only question and wait, debating the shape of a puzzle still lacking pieces. We can forgive it, of course, and even enjoy it for what it is, though only because we know (or hope) that the answers are coming. The verdict's still out, leaving The Matrix Reloaded in an enjoyable yet unfinished limbo. In light of that, it's probably best not to dwell too much on its subtext, but rather just sit back, enjoy the pretty pictures, and leave the heavy thinking for The Matrix Revolutions this fall. "Wait a minute, he's who? And they need to do what? That doesn't make any... Aw forget it, here comes some kung-fu!"
Review posted: 05.16.2003.
I saw it Friday night...and...well, I don't really know what to think yet. I want to see it again, so maybe that's a sign that I liked it.
I'll just say this, I would have done things a little different if I had any say in the final cut. The movie was great, AMAZING special effects, but I didn't like the way the city of ZION was portrayed. Almost seemed like they portrayed it the way they did in order to reach a wider dempgraphic pop. or in other word to make more $.
ANYWAY- like I said, stunning CGI and action...but the narrative lacked something...and the Zion thing. I think you'll know what I mean after you see it.
ALSO- I think it is VERY difficult for a sequel to live up to the magic of the original, but that's obvious. the Godfather II is the only sequel I can think of that was as good, if not better, then the original.
Bottom line: great action flick and enough to get the noodle working. Narrative and plot a little muddled (narrative transitions a little weak) but in the end it's a visual rollercoaster with some hot kung-fu action.
Here is a real critical review from www.rottentomatoes.com:
---------------------------------------------------------
Review by Rob Vaux
Let's get it out of the way right now. The Matrix Reloaded will not duplicate the experience of the original Matrix. It will not catch us by surprise, dump us on our collective head and make us goggle in wonderment at the achievement placed before us. The first film was a sucker punch, an unseen blip that landed with the fury of a hurricane. Its innovation was matched by the fact that no one could see it coming -- a luxury that The Matrix Reloaded simply doesn't have. Warner Bros. has assaulted us with an advertising campaign of Napoleonic proportions, choreographing product tie-ins and rampant ads with smart-bomb precision. The resulting hype is more than any film can match, and The Matrix Reloaded simply doesn't scale the heights that have been set for it. Ask George Lucas, the man whose thunder they stole with the original: no matter how hard they try, they can never make it as good as we want it to be.
Having said that, The Matrix Reloaded is still pretty damn good. For all the hype and noise and attractive video games available on the exact day of release, directors Andy and Larry Wachowski still have a great creative concept at the core of it all. The Matrix presented a vision of the future at once both dystopic and exhilarating, a world that, while not entirely original, presented its ideas in a unique and compelling fashion. The Matrix Reloaded is content to further detail this world; not develop it so much as fill in the missing pieces (it goes without saying that the first movie is mandatory viewing for anyone who hopes to understand this one). Once more, we return to the far future, where the titular VR computer program convinces an enslaved humanity that it's living out a "normal" life in contemporary society. A rebel movement fights back against that enforced reality, led by the messianic Neo (Keanu Reeves) and his mentor Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne). The Matrix Reloaded focuses on the continuation of their quest, battling the sentient machines that keep humanity in chains. We see the spectacle of Zion, "the last free human city" as it falls under attack from without, while Neo and his compatriots seek the answers to prophetic riddles within the Matrix itself. We see the return of Agent Smith (Hugo Weaving), "cut free" by Neo's tampering and now possessing the ability to duplicate himself like a virus. And we see the expected phalanx of impressive fights and action scenes, on which the philosophy must depend lest the audience grow too bored.
All of it should be familiar to viewers of the first film, and it remains engaging enough, though we never really feel it the way we should. The acting is adequate, but was never great shakes to begin with (save for Weaving's wonderful Agent Smith), and the soap-opera subplots merely fill space rather than achieving any genuine resonance. Initially, much of it feels misplayed... though as The Matrix Reloaded continues, its "shortcomings" transform into hints of deeper mysteries, implications far beyond that which we already know. It would be more thrilling if we could see where it was going, but it cuts itself short, presumably saving the juiciest tidbits for the third part of the trilogy.
Therein lies the trouble. The Matrix Reloaded is doomed to remain frustratingly obscure, no matter how many convoluted explanations it provides. The Wachowskis pour a great deal of energy into esoteric matters, from Neo's deliberations on free will to the true purpose of the Matrix itself. Zion gets its fair due -- complete with imposing security devices and a rave/orgy featuring beautiful people in filmy clothes -- as do a few new parts of the Matrix itself. The machines are not without internal politics, it seems, and several "older programs" make their appearance as power-mongers, humble craftsmen, and threatening wraiths. It's all nifty stuff, but without the third film to complete the journey, it raises far too many questions to satisfy us.
What's left is spectacle, and in that department at least The Matrix Reloaded exceeds all expectations. The Wachowskis passionately revel in every corner of their canvas, and throw themselves wholeheartedly into the rampaging style that made the first film such a feast. We feel the energy of this universe from the very first frame, and the resonance of its vision still holds the power to delight. As a straight action film it runs circles around the competition, featuring a 14-minute car chase that may set a new benchmark and martial arts choreography by Yuen Wo Ping that's some of the most imaginative you'll see (and a good thing too, since Neo's status as prophesied savior sucks some of the drama out of his fights). Its underpinnings may be murky, but its bright noises and shiny objects are well worth the price of admission.
That's probably the most we can hope for at this stage. In the end, The Matrix Reloaded is a work in progress, the first half of a larger sequel that has yet to be completed. Until the finale arrives, we can only question and wait, debating the shape of a puzzle still lacking pieces. We can forgive it, of course, and even enjoy it for what it is, though only because we know (or hope) that the answers are coming. The verdict's still out, leaving The Matrix Reloaded in an enjoyable yet unfinished limbo. In light of that, it's probably best not to dwell too much on its subtext, but rather just sit back, enjoy the pretty pictures, and leave the heavy thinking for The Matrix Revolutions this fall. "Wait a minute, he's who? And they need to do what? That doesn't make any... Aw forget it, here comes some kung-fu!"
Review posted: 05.16.2003.
#105
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Your ALL TIME favorite movie...
May 09, 2003, 01:22:21
OK, this is going to be tough because we all have a top 5 or 10 list, but if ]you have to name ONE movie that you call your favorite, which is it?
Mine, at least at this time in my life, is a film called... I can't do it. I have 3 in mind. I will post my ONE favorite movie later.
Mine, at least at this time in my life, is a film called... I can't do it. I have 3 in mind. I will post my ONE favorite movie later.
#106
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Pet peeve
April 30, 2003, 14:57:52
What is your pet peeve?
I have quite a few, one of them is people who don't flush the toilet in public restrooms. At the University I attend I see at least one guy a week who uses the toilet and then just walks away. I have actually started confronting them, especially if they wash their hands. I say, "Hey man, if you wash your hands, why the hell don't you flush the toilet. That's disgusting." or I just say, "Hey, you forgot to flush the toilet."
Anyway, probably more info than you wanted.
Oh, and I hate when I am merging onto the freeway and the person won't speed up or slow down to let me on, what kind of evil person does that!!!!!?
[?]
I have quite a few, one of them is people who don't flush the toilet in public restrooms. At the University I attend I see at least one guy a week who uses the toilet and then just walks away. I have actually started confronting them, especially if they wash their hands. I say, "Hey man, if you wash your hands, why the hell don't you flush the toilet. That's disgusting." or I just say, "Hey, you forgot to flush the toilet."
Anyway, probably more info than you wanted.
Oh, and I hate when I am merging onto the freeway and the person won't speed up or slow down to let me on, what kind of evil person does that!!!!!?
[?]
#107
Welcome to the Healing place! / My dad...
April 25, 2003, 09:43:25
Hi everyone. I woke up this morning to a phone call from my little sister telling me my dad (who is only in his forties) had a heart attack last night. As you can imagine, this was a big shock. It wasn't severe but he is in serious condition. I am praying for him, but I ask you all to join me in focusing some energy, in whatever way you can, toward him. He is a great man, an elementary school teacher, and is a kind and loving father to four children (me, his eldest and only son, and three sisters).
Thank you!
Thank you!
#108
Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / Duality (and non-duality)
April 18, 2003, 16:20:52
I am taking an upper division English class and, for some unexplainable reason, the Professor has only taked about one thing for the first 3 weeks: duality (and non-duality). He has talkd about it largely in the context of Hinduism and Buddhism, using a number of texts including the Dao (tao).
It's all VERY fascinating and I love to compare it to my beliefs...well, using the word "compare" is actually a poor way of saying it because I feel tha a great deal of dualism/Hinduism is true and therefore I compare it to the truth that I know.
ANYWAY- do any of you know much about duality or thought/meditated about it? I would love to discuss some of it.
It's all VERY fascinating and I love to compare it to my beliefs...well, using the word "compare" is actually a poor way of saying it because I feel tha a great deal of dualism/Hinduism is true and therefore I compare it to the truth that I know.
ANYWAY- do any of you know much about duality or thought/meditated about it? I would love to discuss some of it.
#109
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Promising New Films and a Few you might Have Misse
April 10, 2003, 23:42:19
Just a couple of new films coming out which might be worth shelling out a few bucks to catch in the theatres. For me, however, there are two films coming out this year, back to back, which I can't wait to see: Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions...that's right, back to back, one right after another. I'll post some info on the Matrix movies later.
Some promising new films to be released in theaters this Friday (US):
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/allposters/151/501354_rt.jpg
THEATRICAL RELEASE
ANGER MANAGEMENT
(comedy starring Jack Nicholson and Adam Sandler
Apr 11, 2003 (Wide)
CAST & CREW
Jack Nicholson, Adam Sandler, Krista Allen
Directed by Peter Segal
more...
SYNOPSIS
In Revolution Studios' riotous new comedy Anger Management, Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson star as patient and therapist, though at times it's hard to tell which one is which.
Also:
Better Luck Tomorrow (2003)
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/custom/15/1121015.jpg
THEATRICAL RELEASE
Apr 11, 2003 (Limited)
CAST & CREW
Parry Shen, Jason J. Tobin, Roger Fan
Directed by Justin Lin
more...
SYNOPSIS
Everyone knows a person like Ben - the perfect Asian American high school teen - extremely intelligent, a perfectionist, overachiever whose tunnel vision leads to nothing less than graduating at the top of the class and acceptance to the best Ivy League university. more...
MPAA RATING
R, Rated R for violence, drug use, language and sexuality
RELEASE COMPANY
MTV Films
------------------
One which you might have missed is:
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/94/205194.jpg
Spirited Away
I think this looks great, I am going to try to see it ASAP...it was just re-released in US theaters but should be available on DVD really soon.
THEATRICAL RELEASE
Sep 20, 2002 (Limited)
VIDEO RELEASE
Apr 15, 2003 (VHS)
Apr 15, 2003 (DVD)
NUMBERS
Box Office: $8,879,467
details...
CONSENSUS
An enchanting adventure that takes viewers, young and old alike, through the looking glass.
CAST & CREW
Daveigh Chase, Jason Marsden, Michael Chiklis
Directed by Hayao Miyazaki
more...
SYNOPSIS
Directed by animation legend Hayao Miyazaki, SPIRITED AWAY is the tale of Chihiro (voiced by Daveigh Chase), a young girl who is taken down an unusual road by her parents while moving to a new home in an unfamiliar town. more...
MPAA RATING
PG, some scary moments
RUNTIME
2 hours, 12 minutes
Japan, 2001
U.S. Release Date: 9/20/02 (limited)
Running Length: 2:04
MPAA Classification: PG (Scary moments)
Theatrical Aspect Ratio: 1.85:1
Seen at: Ritz 16, Voorhees, NJ
Cast (voices): Daveigh Chase, Jason Marsden, Suzanne Pleshette, Michael Chiklis, Susan Egan, Lauren Holly, John Ratzenberger, David Ogden Stiers
Director: Hayao Miyazaki
Producers: Toshio Suzuki, Donald W. Ernst
Screenplay: Hayao Miyazaki
Music: Jo Hisaishi
U.S. Distributor: Walt Disney Pictures
To animators across the world, Hayao Miyazaki is a god. Within the animation community, his work is revered, and fans of "anime" (Japanese animation) await each new Miyazaki film with the same degree of ill-concealed impatience as displayed by 11-year olds hungering for the next book in the "Harry Potter" series. In mainstream United States movie-going circles, Miyazaki is not a well-known name, which is one reason why, several years ago, Walt Disney Pictures purchased the North American rights to Miyazaki's catalog. While there were some gripes about the manner in which the dubbing and distribution of Miyazaki's previous feature, Princess Mononoke, were handled here, more care has been taken for Spirited Away. Two American animation luminaries – Pixar's John Lasseter and Disney's Kirk Wise (the director of several animated features, including Beauty and the Beast) – were recruited to convert the Japanese version of the movie into one for English-speaking audiences.
Let me state up front that I am neither a fan of, nor an expert on, anime. In fact, I'm not a lover of animation in general. But I know when I'm in the presence of good storytelling, and Spirited Away represents that. Watching this movie, you immediately become aware of two things – the animation is excellent (something that will come as no surprise to anyone who has seen one of Miyazaki's previous outings) and the story turns in unusual, often unexpected directions. One of the biggest problems I have with many animated films (even the best ones) is plot predictability. That's not the case here.
Spirited Away takes influences from "Alice in Wonderland" and "The Wizard of Oz" and uses them to fashion a highly original story about a 10 year-old girl, Chihiro (voiced by Daveigh Chase), who, along with her parents, ventures through a tunnel that leads to the world of spirits. After a witch, Yubaba (Suzanne Pleshette), turns Mom and Dad into pigs, Chihiro must find a niche in the spirit world, where humans are not well thought-of, and figure out a way to convince Yubaba to change her parents back into humans and send them all home. With help from Haku (Jason Marsden), Yubaba's boy apprentice, and Lin (Susan Egan), a "big sister" type, Chihiro gets a job at Yubaba's bathhouse for sprits, and there her quest to aid her family begins. But, as complications arise, she finds additional tasks to perform and other allies willing to help her.
The nature of the story is tailor-made for animation. Many of the characters engage in shape-shifting (boys become dragons, adults become pigs, a giant baby becomes a bloated mouse) and the bathhouse is frequented by a variety of strange and unusual creatures. While a few of the inhabitants of the sprit world look human, most appear to be anything but that. Take the boiler operator Kamaji (David Ogden Stiers), for example. At first glance, he's just a cranky old man with a frizzy beard. Then we notice that he has eight legs and walks like a spider. We also find out that he's not as intimidating as he looks. His initially surly disposition melts away and he becomes of one Chihiro's numerous friends.
Miyazaki is an environmentalist, and his films often contain strong pro-environment messages. (This was a cornerstone to Princess Mononoke.) In Spirited Away, one of the visitors to the bathhouse is a river spirit who has been so badly polluted by sludge and other waste materials that his stench drives people away and he is in need of a powerful cleansing to sluice away the filth. It takes an effort, but he is eventually restored to his former glory.
The film's animation is stunning, with richly-detailed backgrounds and flawless foregrounds. Unlike many animators, Miyazaki still relies almost exclusively upon hand-drawn artwork (although he employs some computer technology to touch up and enhance the final product), and his meticulous care shows. The colors are bright and vivid, and some of the scenes (especially those taking place during a rainstorm) are peerless in the world of motion picture animation. Also, with a running length that exceeds two hours (124 minutes), Spirited Away requires approximately 40% more cells than what is needed for the average Disney release.
Miyazaki does not dumb down Spirited Away, even though his stated target audience is children. This is a true family film, in that adults will be as enchanted by the characters and situations as children will. The pace is a little slower than the average animated film – there is not as much frantic action – but not so languid that younger viewers will become restless. The dubbing into English is very good (as is voice selection), so there is no subtitle barrier. Overall, while Spirited Away may not be as complex and imaginative as Princess Mononoke in some areas, it is as beautifully rendered and no less sophisticated in its outlook. Miyazaki has provided another triumph, and, in the midst of the quality fall-off of Disney's in-house animated projects, a reason for animation-lovers to rejoice.
© 2002 James Berardinelli
Some promising new films to be released in theaters this Friday (US):
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/allposters/151/501354_rt.jpg
THEATRICAL RELEASE
ANGER MANAGEMENT
(comedy starring Jack Nicholson and Adam Sandler
Apr 11, 2003 (Wide)
CAST & CREW
Jack Nicholson, Adam Sandler, Krista Allen
Directed by Peter Segal
more...
SYNOPSIS
In Revolution Studios' riotous new comedy Anger Management, Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson star as patient and therapist, though at times it's hard to tell which one is which.
Also:
Better Luck Tomorrow (2003)
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/custom/15/1121015.jpg
THEATRICAL RELEASE
Apr 11, 2003 (Limited)
CAST & CREW
Parry Shen, Jason J. Tobin, Roger Fan
Directed by Justin Lin
more...
SYNOPSIS
Everyone knows a person like Ben - the perfect Asian American high school teen - extremely intelligent, a perfectionist, overachiever whose tunnel vision leads to nothing less than graduating at the top of the class and acceptance to the best Ivy League university. more...
MPAA RATING
R, Rated R for violence, drug use, language and sexuality
RELEASE COMPANY
MTV Films
------------------
One which you might have missed is:
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/94/205194.jpg
Spirited Away
I think this looks great, I am going to try to see it ASAP...it was just re-released in US theaters but should be available on DVD really soon.
THEATRICAL RELEASE
Sep 20, 2002 (Limited)
VIDEO RELEASE
Apr 15, 2003 (VHS)
Apr 15, 2003 (DVD)
NUMBERS
Box Office: $8,879,467
details...
CONSENSUS
An enchanting adventure that takes viewers, young and old alike, through the looking glass.
CAST & CREW
Daveigh Chase, Jason Marsden, Michael Chiklis
Directed by Hayao Miyazaki
more...
SYNOPSIS
Directed by animation legend Hayao Miyazaki, SPIRITED AWAY is the tale of Chihiro (voiced by Daveigh Chase), a young girl who is taken down an unusual road by her parents while moving to a new home in an unfamiliar town. more...
MPAA RATING
PG, some scary moments
RUNTIME
2 hours, 12 minutes
Japan, 2001
U.S. Release Date: 9/20/02 (limited)
Running Length: 2:04
MPAA Classification: PG (Scary moments)
Theatrical Aspect Ratio: 1.85:1
Seen at: Ritz 16, Voorhees, NJ
Cast (voices): Daveigh Chase, Jason Marsden, Suzanne Pleshette, Michael Chiklis, Susan Egan, Lauren Holly, John Ratzenberger, David Ogden Stiers
Director: Hayao Miyazaki
Producers: Toshio Suzuki, Donald W. Ernst
Screenplay: Hayao Miyazaki
Music: Jo Hisaishi
U.S. Distributor: Walt Disney Pictures
To animators across the world, Hayao Miyazaki is a god. Within the animation community, his work is revered, and fans of "anime" (Japanese animation) await each new Miyazaki film with the same degree of ill-concealed impatience as displayed by 11-year olds hungering for the next book in the "Harry Potter" series. In mainstream United States movie-going circles, Miyazaki is not a well-known name, which is one reason why, several years ago, Walt Disney Pictures purchased the North American rights to Miyazaki's catalog. While there were some gripes about the manner in which the dubbing and distribution of Miyazaki's previous feature, Princess Mononoke, were handled here, more care has been taken for Spirited Away. Two American animation luminaries – Pixar's John Lasseter and Disney's Kirk Wise (the director of several animated features, including Beauty and the Beast) – were recruited to convert the Japanese version of the movie into one for English-speaking audiences.
Let me state up front that I am neither a fan of, nor an expert on, anime. In fact, I'm not a lover of animation in general. But I know when I'm in the presence of good storytelling, and Spirited Away represents that. Watching this movie, you immediately become aware of two things – the animation is excellent (something that will come as no surprise to anyone who has seen one of Miyazaki's previous outings) and the story turns in unusual, often unexpected directions. One of the biggest problems I have with many animated films (even the best ones) is plot predictability. That's not the case here.
Spirited Away takes influences from "Alice in Wonderland" and "The Wizard of Oz" and uses them to fashion a highly original story about a 10 year-old girl, Chihiro (voiced by Daveigh Chase), who, along with her parents, ventures through a tunnel that leads to the world of spirits. After a witch, Yubaba (Suzanne Pleshette), turns Mom and Dad into pigs, Chihiro must find a niche in the spirit world, where humans are not well thought-of, and figure out a way to convince Yubaba to change her parents back into humans and send them all home. With help from Haku (Jason Marsden), Yubaba's boy apprentice, and Lin (Susan Egan), a "big sister" type, Chihiro gets a job at Yubaba's bathhouse for sprits, and there her quest to aid her family begins. But, as complications arise, she finds additional tasks to perform and other allies willing to help her.
The nature of the story is tailor-made for animation. Many of the characters engage in shape-shifting (boys become dragons, adults become pigs, a giant baby becomes a bloated mouse) and the bathhouse is frequented by a variety of strange and unusual creatures. While a few of the inhabitants of the sprit world look human, most appear to be anything but that. Take the boiler operator Kamaji (David Ogden Stiers), for example. At first glance, he's just a cranky old man with a frizzy beard. Then we notice that he has eight legs and walks like a spider. We also find out that he's not as intimidating as he looks. His initially surly disposition melts away and he becomes of one Chihiro's numerous friends.
Miyazaki is an environmentalist, and his films often contain strong pro-environment messages. (This was a cornerstone to Princess Mononoke.) In Spirited Away, one of the visitors to the bathhouse is a river spirit who has been so badly polluted by sludge and other waste materials that his stench drives people away and he is in need of a powerful cleansing to sluice away the filth. It takes an effort, but he is eventually restored to his former glory.
The film's animation is stunning, with richly-detailed backgrounds and flawless foregrounds. Unlike many animators, Miyazaki still relies almost exclusively upon hand-drawn artwork (although he employs some computer technology to touch up and enhance the final product), and his meticulous care shows. The colors are bright and vivid, and some of the scenes (especially those taking place during a rainstorm) are peerless in the world of motion picture animation. Also, with a running length that exceeds two hours (124 minutes), Spirited Away requires approximately 40% more cells than what is needed for the average Disney release.
Miyazaki does not dumb down Spirited Away, even though his stated target audience is children. This is a true family film, in that adults will be as enchanted by the characters and situations as children will. The pace is a little slower than the average animated film – there is not as much frantic action – but not so languid that younger viewers will become restless. The dubbing into English is very good (as is voice selection), so there is no subtitle barrier. Overall, while Spirited Away may not be as complex and imaginative as Princess Mononoke in some areas, it is as beautifully rendered and no less sophisticated in its outlook. Miyazaki has provided another triumph, and, in the midst of the quality fall-off of Disney's in-house animated projects, a reason for animation-lovers to rejoice.
© 2002 James Berardinelli
#110
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Iraqis Cheer in the Streets
April 09, 2003, 14:30:45
Everytime I read these articles and see the images of Iraqis cheering in the streets it makes me realize how much these people are grateful to be liberated from the Butcher of Baghdad and his terrible, violent regime. Now it's America's job to hurry up, finish up, rebuild infrastructure, assure that there is an honest gov't in place and GET OUT.
-------
CROWDS CHEER IN BAGHDAD STREETS
11:00 - 09 April 2003
Jubilant crowds welcomed US Marines in eastern Baghdad today as Saddam Hussein's reign appeared to be ending.
And the centre of the capital was eerily quiet, with regime officials melting away and little evidence of any fighting. BBC correspondent Rageh Omaar said there were "dramatic reports" coming in from the east of the city.
"There is looting of government stores, people going out into the streets without seemingly any fear, chanting anti-government slogans.
"Really government control has ebbed away," he said.
There were reports of no police on the streets of the city.
Allied forces were tightening their grip on the city today and made further inroads in the north and south of the country.
U.S troops entered Baghdad from the north for the first time and U.S Marines moved deeper into the city from the east.
The jubilant scenes were in Saddam City, a poor Shiite district in the east of the capital, where Marines were clapped and cheered, according to reports.
Iraq's Shiites have suffered persecution at the hands of Saddam's regime.
------------------------------------
Dancing in Baghdad streets
Hundreds of Iraqi civilians danced and cheered in the streets of Baghdad today as Saddam Hussein's iron grip on the city was finally broken.
Looters raided the administration`s offices, abandoned shops and government residences in the capital, taking furniture and food.
In parts of Baghdad, men, women and their children were pictured cheering and giving ``victory`` signs to foreign TV cameras.
One man, who appeared to be in his late 50s, tore down a picture of Saddam Hussein wearing his trademark military beret and sunglasses.
In a mark of the dramatic changes that were sweeping the city, the man took off his shoe and used it to beat the image of the dictator`s face openly in the street.
``This is the criminal, this is the infidel,`` he said.
``This is the destiny of every traitor ... he killed millions of us. Oh people, this is freedom.``
The man continued to beat the image of Saddam with his shoe - an act considered to be a great insult in the Arab world.
Others joined in, pulling at the picture and kicking the canvas until it was ripped loose from its buckled wooden frame and torn into strips.
According to reports, government officials fled the city earlier in the day, and Saddam`s controversial information minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf cancelled his morning press briefing.
Some areas of Baghdad east of the River Tigris remained eerily quiet, and were still in the control of Saddam`s loyalists, according to Sky News reporter David Chater.
``This is perhaps one of the last pockets where the Americans have yet to reach and there`s still quite a lot of armed resistance,`` he said.
But elsewhere, men, women and children ran and danced in Baghdad`s dusty streets, carrying office chairs, sacks of grain and other supplies on their backs.
They stood in the sunshine beside the bombed shells of official Iraqi buildings - the now gutted, lifeless symbols of Saddam`s rule.
Children grinned and gave thumbs-up signs to TV cameras in the city.
Paul Wood, BBC World correspondent in Baghdad, said looting was happening across the east of the city.
``People are now adjusting to the new realities which we are seeing on the streets of Baghdad about a kilometre away,`` he said.
He said locals who claimed to be ``in charge`` of the uprising had told him they did not want the Americans to run their city.
``The `leader of our revolution`, one of the Shias, told me `We don`t want the Americans here. We are glad that Saddam has gone, we see this now as an opportunity to take control of our own lives`.``
ITV`s John Irvine, said by the channel to be the first reporter to meet US Marines in Baghdad, said Iraqis were hurling stones at pictures of Saddam outside the HQ of the secret police.
Others were dousing the images in petrol and setting them ablaze, displaying extreme pleasure in doing so, according to Irvine.
Irvine asked one of the Marines in the city how it felt to be there.
The soldier replied: ``Pretty good. It`s nice to represent marines here. We entered Baghdad last night, but have just got to the centre now. The reception has been great.``
For the first time foreign journalists working in Baghdad were able to work without being monitored by Iraqi officials.
TV pictures showed US soldiers seemingly at ease as they walked along roadsides, many with their rifles dropped to their sides.
Other scenes showed hundreds of Iraqis waving their guns in the air, while those without weapons took up branches and waved their clothing in displays of approval.
Ian Glover James, a reporter for ITV in Baghdad, said the scenes of celebration and looting had turned ``ugly`` in some places.
``Initially (it was) very good-natured. We saw a crowd ransacking what had been a government intelligence headquarters.
``They were coming out with office furniture, office chairs, bottles of Chivas Regal whisky and other fine blends of drinks normally unseen here in Baghdad.
``But on our return on the way out, the scene had turned rather more ugly.
``There was a man standing in the middle of the road with a very heavy calibre machine gun, the kind of thing that`s mounted on an armoured vehicle normally.
``There was at least one corpse on the ground and it did look like the crowd that had been busy looting had had an altercation and gunfire had ensued.``
Among the chants being shouted by the jubilant citizens of Baghdad were ``Saddam is god`s enemy``, and other reports said Iraqis were also shouting ``Good, good Bush``.
As news of the jubilation in Baghdad spread across Iraq, civilians in Basra and Arbil joined in celebrations of their own.
In a pooled despatch from Basra, Keith Harrison, of Wolverhampton`s Express & Star, said pictures of the Iraqi dictator ``were defaced on street corners``.
Despite rumours of Baath Party officials observing the crowd, the men were finally confident enough to speak out, he said.
Abal Malam Al Fussah, a 28-year-old English student from Al Zubayr, told Harrison: ``We have waited many years for this.
``Saddam is evil and he has gone. He killed Muslims, his own people and stole our money to buy palaces and cars and guns.``
And, drawing a finger across his throat to cheers from the crowd, he added: ``He must pay the full price.``
The scenes of celebration spread to Arbil in northern Iraq, where crowds of men gathered to cheer and wave, holding aloft pictures of their Kurdish leader.
US and British officials cautiously welcomed the news.
But coalition commanders warned that there could still be significant opposition and more fierce battles as loyalist fighters continued to defend Baghdad.
------------------------
TV images of crumbling regime cheer Iraqi-Americans
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Iraqis in Michigan paraded through the streets waving American and Iraqi flags, while others around the nation greeted signs that Saddam Hussein's regime is crumbling with tears of joy.
Worries about relatives in their homeland persisted, but a wave of relief washed over many in the Iraqi-American community Wednesday as they saw news reports of collapsing opposition to U.S. troops in Baghdad.
"This is a day we've been waiting for 35 years," said Feisal Amin Al-Istrabadi, a Chicago lawyer who went in late to work after watching events unfold on television. "It's a tremendous relief that it seems that this is the beginning of the end. I'm very, very proud to be an American today, as well as an Iraqi."
In Dearborn, Mich., a crowd of about 200 people and dozens of honking cars paraded by the Karbalaa Islamic Center in the largely Arab Detroit suburb.
Some people stood on car roofs, others chanted slogans in Arabic, including "Hey hey, Saddam, hey Saddam, where are you going to escape to?" and "Saddam is dead, long live Iraq." At one point, the crowd used candy to pelt a large cardboard drawing of Saddam, took the picture out into the street, jumped on it and eventually tore it in half.
"Today is my birthday," said Ali Al-Ghazali, 46, a native of southern Iraq. "But it's also the birthday for all Iraqis."
Salah Flaih, who decorated his Manchester, N.H., convenience store with American flags and a life-sized cardboard cutout of President Bush, hopped up and down as he watched television images of U.S. Marines and Iraqis topple a 40-foot statue of Saddam that stood in the center of Baghdad's Fardos Square.
"Oh, the Iraqi people are happy now," said Flaih, 49, who moved to New Hampshire with his wife and sons 2 1/2 years ago. "It's the happiest moment in my life. It's my liberation day."
In Lincoln, Neb., Omar Younis watched the same images. "It's exciting, it's very great," said Younis, who has family living in Mosul. "I wish I was there to participate with the people."
Ithaar Derweesh, who hasn't been able to sleep more than three hours a night since the war started, said he woke up early to "the adrenaline rush of watching history unfold," seeing television images of people throwing flowers at American tanks, waving flags and removing symbols of Saddam's regime.
"It's beautiful," said Derweesh, 32, a Cleveland surgeon whose family left Iraq when he was 9 years old. "I cried tears of joy."
But not all Iraqi-Americans shared those feelings. Hadi Jawad, vice president and board member of the Dallas Peace Center, said he sees coalition forces not as liberators, but as subjugators of Iraq's people and resources.
"They have resorted to war, to violence, to killing thousands of Iraqi civilians," he said. "The means they have resorted to to accomplish the removal of the regime is unconscionable. It's a criminal act."
As Iraqi-Americans watched the looting in the streets of Baghdad, they also are concerned about relatives living there, and whether they have electricity or running water.
"I'd like to see calm restored," said Al-Istrabadi, whose cousins, aunts and uncles live in Iraq. "One of my nephews is 20 years old. He has never known a regime other than Saddam's. So this is where the future of Iraq lies — how are they going to be able to engender and maintain these democratic institutions?"
Now, the hard work begins, said Al-Istrabadi, who is vice president for legal affairs at the Iraqi Forum for Democracy.
"The liberation of Baghdad is in many respects the easy part," he said. "How do you go about reconstructing a civil society? How do you go about reintroducing the rule of law? While I'm optimistic about the future, I also realize that it's going to be a herculean effort."
-------
CROWDS CHEER IN BAGHDAD STREETS
11:00 - 09 April 2003
Jubilant crowds welcomed US Marines in eastern Baghdad today as Saddam Hussein's reign appeared to be ending.
And the centre of the capital was eerily quiet, with regime officials melting away and little evidence of any fighting. BBC correspondent Rageh Omaar said there were "dramatic reports" coming in from the east of the city.
"There is looting of government stores, people going out into the streets without seemingly any fear, chanting anti-government slogans.
"Really government control has ebbed away," he said.
There were reports of no police on the streets of the city.
Allied forces were tightening their grip on the city today and made further inroads in the north and south of the country.
U.S troops entered Baghdad from the north for the first time and U.S Marines moved deeper into the city from the east.
The jubilant scenes were in Saddam City, a poor Shiite district in the east of the capital, where Marines were clapped and cheered, according to reports.
Iraq's Shiites have suffered persecution at the hands of Saddam's regime.
------------------------------------
Dancing in Baghdad streets
Hundreds of Iraqi civilians danced and cheered in the streets of Baghdad today as Saddam Hussein's iron grip on the city was finally broken.
Looters raided the administration`s offices, abandoned shops and government residences in the capital, taking furniture and food.
In parts of Baghdad, men, women and their children were pictured cheering and giving ``victory`` signs to foreign TV cameras.
One man, who appeared to be in his late 50s, tore down a picture of Saddam Hussein wearing his trademark military beret and sunglasses.
In a mark of the dramatic changes that were sweeping the city, the man took off his shoe and used it to beat the image of the dictator`s face openly in the street.
``This is the criminal, this is the infidel,`` he said.
``This is the destiny of every traitor ... he killed millions of us. Oh people, this is freedom.``
The man continued to beat the image of Saddam with his shoe - an act considered to be a great insult in the Arab world.
Others joined in, pulling at the picture and kicking the canvas until it was ripped loose from its buckled wooden frame and torn into strips.
According to reports, government officials fled the city earlier in the day, and Saddam`s controversial information minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf cancelled his morning press briefing.
Some areas of Baghdad east of the River Tigris remained eerily quiet, and were still in the control of Saddam`s loyalists, according to Sky News reporter David Chater.
``This is perhaps one of the last pockets where the Americans have yet to reach and there`s still quite a lot of armed resistance,`` he said.
But elsewhere, men, women and children ran and danced in Baghdad`s dusty streets, carrying office chairs, sacks of grain and other supplies on their backs.
They stood in the sunshine beside the bombed shells of official Iraqi buildings - the now gutted, lifeless symbols of Saddam`s rule.
Children grinned and gave thumbs-up signs to TV cameras in the city.
Paul Wood, BBC World correspondent in Baghdad, said looting was happening across the east of the city.
``People are now adjusting to the new realities which we are seeing on the streets of Baghdad about a kilometre away,`` he said.
He said locals who claimed to be ``in charge`` of the uprising had told him they did not want the Americans to run their city.
``The `leader of our revolution`, one of the Shias, told me `We don`t want the Americans here. We are glad that Saddam has gone, we see this now as an opportunity to take control of our own lives`.``
ITV`s John Irvine, said by the channel to be the first reporter to meet US Marines in Baghdad, said Iraqis were hurling stones at pictures of Saddam outside the HQ of the secret police.
Others were dousing the images in petrol and setting them ablaze, displaying extreme pleasure in doing so, according to Irvine.
Irvine asked one of the Marines in the city how it felt to be there.
The soldier replied: ``Pretty good. It`s nice to represent marines here. We entered Baghdad last night, but have just got to the centre now. The reception has been great.``
For the first time foreign journalists working in Baghdad were able to work without being monitored by Iraqi officials.
TV pictures showed US soldiers seemingly at ease as they walked along roadsides, many with their rifles dropped to their sides.
Other scenes showed hundreds of Iraqis waving their guns in the air, while those without weapons took up branches and waved their clothing in displays of approval.
Ian Glover James, a reporter for ITV in Baghdad, said the scenes of celebration and looting had turned ``ugly`` in some places.
``Initially (it was) very good-natured. We saw a crowd ransacking what had been a government intelligence headquarters.
``They were coming out with office furniture, office chairs, bottles of Chivas Regal whisky and other fine blends of drinks normally unseen here in Baghdad.
``But on our return on the way out, the scene had turned rather more ugly.
``There was a man standing in the middle of the road with a very heavy calibre machine gun, the kind of thing that`s mounted on an armoured vehicle normally.
``There was at least one corpse on the ground and it did look like the crowd that had been busy looting had had an altercation and gunfire had ensued.``
Among the chants being shouted by the jubilant citizens of Baghdad were ``Saddam is god`s enemy``, and other reports said Iraqis were also shouting ``Good, good Bush``.
As news of the jubilation in Baghdad spread across Iraq, civilians in Basra and Arbil joined in celebrations of their own.
In a pooled despatch from Basra, Keith Harrison, of Wolverhampton`s Express & Star, said pictures of the Iraqi dictator ``were defaced on street corners``.
Despite rumours of Baath Party officials observing the crowd, the men were finally confident enough to speak out, he said.
Abal Malam Al Fussah, a 28-year-old English student from Al Zubayr, told Harrison: ``We have waited many years for this.
``Saddam is evil and he has gone. He killed Muslims, his own people and stole our money to buy palaces and cars and guns.``
And, drawing a finger across his throat to cheers from the crowd, he added: ``He must pay the full price.``
The scenes of celebration spread to Arbil in northern Iraq, where crowds of men gathered to cheer and wave, holding aloft pictures of their Kurdish leader.
US and British officials cautiously welcomed the news.
But coalition commanders warned that there could still be significant opposition and more fierce battles as loyalist fighters continued to defend Baghdad.
------------------------
TV images of crumbling regime cheer Iraqi-Americans
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Iraqis in Michigan paraded through the streets waving American and Iraqi flags, while others around the nation greeted signs that Saddam Hussein's regime is crumbling with tears of joy.
Worries about relatives in their homeland persisted, but a wave of relief washed over many in the Iraqi-American community Wednesday as they saw news reports of collapsing opposition to U.S. troops in Baghdad.
"This is a day we've been waiting for 35 years," said Feisal Amin Al-Istrabadi, a Chicago lawyer who went in late to work after watching events unfold on television. "It's a tremendous relief that it seems that this is the beginning of the end. I'm very, very proud to be an American today, as well as an Iraqi."
In Dearborn, Mich., a crowd of about 200 people and dozens of honking cars paraded by the Karbalaa Islamic Center in the largely Arab Detroit suburb.
Some people stood on car roofs, others chanted slogans in Arabic, including "Hey hey, Saddam, hey Saddam, where are you going to escape to?" and "Saddam is dead, long live Iraq." At one point, the crowd used candy to pelt a large cardboard drawing of Saddam, took the picture out into the street, jumped on it and eventually tore it in half.
"Today is my birthday," said Ali Al-Ghazali, 46, a native of southern Iraq. "But it's also the birthday for all Iraqis."
Salah Flaih, who decorated his Manchester, N.H., convenience store with American flags and a life-sized cardboard cutout of President Bush, hopped up and down as he watched television images of U.S. Marines and Iraqis topple a 40-foot statue of Saddam that stood in the center of Baghdad's Fardos Square.
"Oh, the Iraqi people are happy now," said Flaih, 49, who moved to New Hampshire with his wife and sons 2 1/2 years ago. "It's the happiest moment in my life. It's my liberation day."
In Lincoln, Neb., Omar Younis watched the same images. "It's exciting, it's very great," said Younis, who has family living in Mosul. "I wish I was there to participate with the people."
Ithaar Derweesh, who hasn't been able to sleep more than three hours a night since the war started, said he woke up early to "the adrenaline rush of watching history unfold," seeing television images of people throwing flowers at American tanks, waving flags and removing symbols of Saddam's regime.
"It's beautiful," said Derweesh, 32, a Cleveland surgeon whose family left Iraq when he was 9 years old. "I cried tears of joy."
But not all Iraqi-Americans shared those feelings. Hadi Jawad, vice president and board member of the Dallas Peace Center, said he sees coalition forces not as liberators, but as subjugators of Iraq's people and resources.
"They have resorted to war, to violence, to killing thousands of Iraqi civilians," he said. "The means they have resorted to to accomplish the removal of the regime is unconscionable. It's a criminal act."
As Iraqi-Americans watched the looting in the streets of Baghdad, they also are concerned about relatives living there, and whether they have electricity or running water.
"I'd like to see calm restored," said Al-Istrabadi, whose cousins, aunts and uncles live in Iraq. "One of my nephews is 20 years old. He has never known a regime other than Saddam's. So this is where the future of Iraq lies — how are they going to be able to engender and maintain these democratic institutions?"
Now, the hard work begins, said Al-Istrabadi, who is vice president for legal affairs at the Iraqi Forum for Democracy.
"The liberation of Baghdad is in many respects the easy part," he said. "How do you go about reconstructing a civil society? How do you go about reintroducing the rule of law? While I'm optimistic about the future, I also realize that it's going to be a herculean effort."
#111
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Avatars
April 07, 2003, 16:50:35
Avatars, those fancy little pics next to some members names, where do you find them?
I have found a few sites and have (as you can see) uploaded some onto my account, but I want to find some animated ones. I know I can find an image and downsize it, but usually it loses so much of its resolution that it looks cheesy once it's reduced.
Thanks for any info you might be able to post here.
-Daniel
I have found a few sites and have (as you can see) uploaded some onto my account, but I want to find some animated ones. I know I can find an image and downsize it, but usually it loses so much of its resolution that it looks cheesy once it's reduced.
Thanks for any info you might be able to post here.
-Daniel
#112
Welcome to Astral Chat! / ----->Homosexuality <------
April 02, 2003, 01:43:25
I know this is a touchy subject, at least for some, but I think it needs to be discussed, especially at a time when many things are being questioned by society and the world at large.
Last week, my wife and I were discussing homosexuality. As a nurse she is required to take a number of gender courses and therefore has heard a lot of different opinions, both scientific and religous, regarding homosexuality. I myself know a number of gay people, almost all of whom I respect.
Today while I was walking on campus I was thinking about the various topics which have been discussed in this forum and realized that gender, and specifically homosexuality, has not been discussed...at least not that I am aware of.
I wonder what you, my friends, think about this.
I don't want to share my thoughts and opinions quite yet, but I do want to pose some questions:
[?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?]
1. How do you feel about homosexuality in general? Do you think homosexuality is wrong?
2. If not, do you think gays need to adavnce their agenda?
3. Do you know anyone who is gay (the chances are high that you do).
4. Spiritually and naturally, how does it fit in?
5. Are people born gay?
6. Can gay people change?
7. How is sexual abuse tied into homosexuality (or is it??)
[?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?]
I hope this discussion can be informative and respectful. I, myself, have strong opinions about this topic as well as some unanswered questions, so I hope to learn more about homosexuality.
-Dan
Last week, my wife and I were discussing homosexuality. As a nurse she is required to take a number of gender courses and therefore has heard a lot of different opinions, both scientific and religous, regarding homosexuality. I myself know a number of gay people, almost all of whom I respect.
Today while I was walking on campus I was thinking about the various topics which have been discussed in this forum and realized that gender, and specifically homosexuality, has not been discussed...at least not that I am aware of.
I wonder what you, my friends, think about this.
I don't want to share my thoughts and opinions quite yet, but I do want to pose some questions:
[?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?]
1. How do you feel about homosexuality in general? Do you think homosexuality is wrong?
2. If not, do you think gays need to adavnce their agenda?
3. Do you know anyone who is gay (the chances are high that you do).
4. Spiritually and naturally, how does it fit in?
5. Are people born gay?
6. Can gay people change?
7. How is sexual abuse tied into homosexuality (or is it??)
[?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?]
I hope this discussion can be informative and respectful. I, myself, have strong opinions about this topic as well as some unanswered questions, so I hope to learn more about homosexuality.
-Dan
#113
Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Can't Stay In My Body!
March 31, 2003, 11:01:10
Check out this article, I found it interesting because while many of us desire to be OB, others have a tough time staying inside their bodies.
I Struggle to Stay In!
by Phylameana lila Desy
Vast numbers of individuals and clustering groups of people are seeking ways to experience out of body, never mind that several of these people seeking to be out of their bodies are actually seldom in their bodies in the first place - more than 50 percent of their energetic fields are hanging out in the ethers....
My personal experience is that for a major part of my life I had been out-of-my-body more than in it. And even now making conscious efforts to be more aware of my body and to actually be IN MY BODY continually I struggle with yanking myself back in. My spiritual nature is floaty. Grounding exercises help tremendously with maintaining a balance of our physical and spiritual bodies.
For years I thought that being out-of-body equated with being an enlightened or more spiritual being. I have since learned (urr...remembered) that I AM already a spiritual being. Being here on the planet means that I have this unique opportunity to be housed within a physical shell. Why discard or disdain the physical house? Without our bodies we wouldn't be able to enjoy the physical pleasures such as eating or sexual intimacy among many other physical sensations. After all, how could the spiritual body devour chocolate??
Out of body experiences done in a controlled fashion are safer and more fulfilling. Cherish your physical body as a place to return safely home to after the spiritual journey, not as a place to run away from.
I Struggle to Stay In!
by Phylameana lila Desy
Vast numbers of individuals and clustering groups of people are seeking ways to experience out of body, never mind that several of these people seeking to be out of their bodies are actually seldom in their bodies in the first place - more than 50 percent of their energetic fields are hanging out in the ethers....
My personal experience is that for a major part of my life I had been out-of-my-body more than in it. And even now making conscious efforts to be more aware of my body and to actually be IN MY BODY continually I struggle with yanking myself back in. My spiritual nature is floaty. Grounding exercises help tremendously with maintaining a balance of our physical and spiritual bodies.
For years I thought that being out-of-body equated with being an enlightened or more spiritual being. I have since learned (urr...remembered) that I AM already a spiritual being. Being here on the planet means that I have this unique opportunity to be housed within a physical shell. Why discard or disdain the physical house? Without our bodies we wouldn't be able to enjoy the physical pleasures such as eating or sexual intimacy among many other physical sensations. After all, how could the spiritual body devour chocolate??
Out of body experiences done in a controlled fashion are safer and more fulfilling. Cherish your physical body as a place to return safely home to after the spiritual journey, not as a place to run away from.
#114
Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / OBE ARTICLES
March 31, 2003, 10:47:57
OBE ARTICLES
-------------------------------------------------------
This thread is for OBE articles and discussions. Please feel free to post any articles, essays or personal feelings relating to the articles or to the out-of-body experience in general.
Obviously not every article will be of equal value/truth, but all articles are important because they relfect the myriad ways the OBE phenomena is experienced.
--------------------------------------------------------
The following article is an intro to the OBE and might be helpful for those who are new to this subject:
You & The OBE
by Wagner Alegretti
The phenomenon of the Out of-Body Experience (OBE), or conscious projection (CP) is a natural phenomenon. Accounts of this experience have been recorded b y persons from all walks of life for thousands of years. With new methods and techniques now available, the phenomenon of OBE can be put under the voluntary control of the experiencer, thus developing the ability of the individual projector to remain lucid during the experience (extraphysical lucidity), to reach various chosen extraphysical objectives, and to remember the experience afterwards (physical recall). The mastering of one's protectability allows the individual to utilize, over many physical (intraphysical) lives, that one-third of his or her life which is, from a consciential point of view, wasted during sleep.
It is generally accepted that the human brain is the most complex object known to man. It is evident to those who experience lucid projections that the consciousness transcends the physical brain which it controls, as the . project or is lucid and active while projected outside the temporarily dormant physical body. In this way, the consciousness (ego, essence, soul, spirit, etc.) is recognized as being the substrate of intelligence and individuality, and something far beyond classic parameters of energy and matter. Thus, the study of the consciousness, held to be something transcendent of physical consciousness, is a dignified subject of study in the true spirit of scientific inquiry.
New methodologies and techniques are needed to enable the study of the consciousness. It is impossible to study the consciousness with classic devices, no matter how sophisticated they may be, as they can, at best, only measure physiological alterations which are merely indirect consequences of the actions of the consciousness being observed. The obvious conclusion, then, is that the consciousness itself is the most effective tool to be used in the study of the consciousness. This inevitably leads to participative research, where the researcher quite often serves as his or her own research subject, while his or her daily circumstances, both inside and outside the body, serve as his or her laboratory. This is the essence of the consciential paradigm.
OBE & History
Today more light is being shed on the universal phenomenon of CP or the OBE. just like the simple physiological acts of breathing and eating, CP is a natural phenomenon - actually a large number of occurrences linked to the disconnection of the consciousness from the body which has accompanied humanity since its birth, having been experienced by men, women and children of all ages, states of health, beliefs, cultures, and social levels.
Like many other natural phenomena (astronomical and meteorological, for example), which were initially regarded as mystical and religious matters, and were only later considered to pertain to science, projections of the consciousness and related phenomena are now being studied from a scientific view, considering the existence of only relative truths 'and maintaining the practice of constant open universal re-evaluation of hypotheses and theories originating from first-hand experiences, many of which are testable.
The history of conscious projection began with primitive man who, like many of the shamans of today, probably used OBE almost instinctively as a means of contacting the "spirits", as well as for more practical ends such as the treatment of physical and psychological problems of community members, or the location of concentrations of food and the whereabouts of missing persons.
Looking at history, clear references to OBE are found in the records of Egyptian civilizations (paintings symbolizing the exit of the kha, or double, from the physical body, for example), and the ancient Greeks (the reports of Plutarch regarding the Near-Death Experience). It also merits noting that references to OBE were made by Buddha, Herodotus, and Plato, and can be found in various parts of the Bible (Ezekiel 3:14; Epistle - 2nd Corinthians 12:2, for example).
Up until the end of the 19th century, the projection of the consciousness was generally looked upon as a type of spiritual initiation.
Consciential States
The consciousness, being the source of life and the sponsor of the intellect, is extremely dynamic and mutable, and manifests in many different ways. However, its three basic conditions are the intraphysical state (when inside the human body), the projected state (when temporarily outside the body) and the extraphysical state (when the consciousness is completely disconnected from the physical body - the result of discarding the physical body, or physical death).
These three basic states indicate one of the main attributes or capacities of the consciousness, that of interdimensionality-.the intrinsic ability of the consciousness to manifest itself in several realities, planes, spheres or dimensions.
hat is the point of all of this? First, it is important to remember that the projection of the consciousness is a (para)physiological and inevitable phenomenon. Everyone spontaneously projects every night, but the overwhelming majority of the population projects with a complete lack of lucidity and, consequently, has no physical recall of these experiences. The projective experience is a natural extension of daily life and engenders personal growth through interaction with extraphysical consciousnesses and events. The developing projector will gradually begin to make use of that one-third of life that is lost during sleep as the body needs sleep, but the consciousness doesn't. Additionally, OBE will accelerate a person's consciential maturation, eventually achieving a state of continuous consciousness (continuous lucidity regardless of whether the body is sleeping or awake) and, finally, become a free consciousness that no longer has to return to physical life.
Conclusion
Everyone leaves their body nightly during sleep. However, only about 1% of humanity is able to spontaneously or voluntarily achieve lucid projections of the consciousness and recall their extraphysical experiences. Anyone can project if s/he can overcome the fears and insecurities that most people have, knows how to work with his or her bioenergies and acts in accordance with the cosmoethic. The long-term benefits of interdimensionality are so many and transcendent that the effort and discipline required to realize lucid projections is well worthwhile.
About The Author
Wagner Alegretti is an electronic engineer and a charter member of International Institute of Projectiology (IIP). Wagner teaches Projectiology courses internationally in English, Portuguese and Spanish, and has been having conscious projections since childhood. The IIP is an independent private, nonprofit organization founded by individuals who decided to formalize their experiences and discoveries in the parapsychic field. You may contact Wagner at: IIP, 545 - 8th Ave, Suite 401, New York, NY 10018.
-------------------------------------------------------
This thread is for OBE articles and discussions. Please feel free to post any articles, essays or personal feelings relating to the articles or to the out-of-body experience in general.
Obviously not every article will be of equal value/truth, but all articles are important because they relfect the myriad ways the OBE phenomena is experienced.
--------------------------------------------------------
The following article is an intro to the OBE and might be helpful for those who are new to this subject:
You & The OBE
by Wagner Alegretti
The phenomenon of the Out of-Body Experience (OBE), or conscious projection (CP) is a natural phenomenon. Accounts of this experience have been recorded b y persons from all walks of life for thousands of years. With new methods and techniques now available, the phenomenon of OBE can be put under the voluntary control of the experiencer, thus developing the ability of the individual projector to remain lucid during the experience (extraphysical lucidity), to reach various chosen extraphysical objectives, and to remember the experience afterwards (physical recall). The mastering of one's protectability allows the individual to utilize, over many physical (intraphysical) lives, that one-third of his or her life which is, from a consciential point of view, wasted during sleep.
It is generally accepted that the human brain is the most complex object known to man. It is evident to those who experience lucid projections that the consciousness transcends the physical brain which it controls, as the . project or is lucid and active while projected outside the temporarily dormant physical body. In this way, the consciousness (ego, essence, soul, spirit, etc.) is recognized as being the substrate of intelligence and individuality, and something far beyond classic parameters of energy and matter. Thus, the study of the consciousness, held to be something transcendent of physical consciousness, is a dignified subject of study in the true spirit of scientific inquiry.
New methodologies and techniques are needed to enable the study of the consciousness. It is impossible to study the consciousness with classic devices, no matter how sophisticated they may be, as they can, at best, only measure physiological alterations which are merely indirect consequences of the actions of the consciousness being observed. The obvious conclusion, then, is that the consciousness itself is the most effective tool to be used in the study of the consciousness. This inevitably leads to participative research, where the researcher quite often serves as his or her own research subject, while his or her daily circumstances, both inside and outside the body, serve as his or her laboratory. This is the essence of the consciential paradigm.
OBE & History
Today more light is being shed on the universal phenomenon of CP or the OBE. just like the simple physiological acts of breathing and eating, CP is a natural phenomenon - actually a large number of occurrences linked to the disconnection of the consciousness from the body which has accompanied humanity since its birth, having been experienced by men, women and children of all ages, states of health, beliefs, cultures, and social levels.
Like many other natural phenomena (astronomical and meteorological, for example), which were initially regarded as mystical and religious matters, and were only later considered to pertain to science, projections of the consciousness and related phenomena are now being studied from a scientific view, considering the existence of only relative truths 'and maintaining the practice of constant open universal re-evaluation of hypotheses and theories originating from first-hand experiences, many of which are testable.
The history of conscious projection began with primitive man who, like many of the shamans of today, probably used OBE almost instinctively as a means of contacting the "spirits", as well as for more practical ends such as the treatment of physical and psychological problems of community members, or the location of concentrations of food and the whereabouts of missing persons.
Looking at history, clear references to OBE are found in the records of Egyptian civilizations (paintings symbolizing the exit of the kha, or double, from the physical body, for example), and the ancient Greeks (the reports of Plutarch regarding the Near-Death Experience). It also merits noting that references to OBE were made by Buddha, Herodotus, and Plato, and can be found in various parts of the Bible (Ezekiel 3:14; Epistle - 2nd Corinthians 12:2, for example).
Up until the end of the 19th century, the projection of the consciousness was generally looked upon as a type of spiritual initiation.
Consciential States
The consciousness, being the source of life and the sponsor of the intellect, is extremely dynamic and mutable, and manifests in many different ways. However, its three basic conditions are the intraphysical state (when inside the human body), the projected state (when temporarily outside the body) and the extraphysical state (when the consciousness is completely disconnected from the physical body - the result of discarding the physical body, or physical death).
These three basic states indicate one of the main attributes or capacities of the consciousness, that of interdimensionality-.the intrinsic ability of the consciousness to manifest itself in several realities, planes, spheres or dimensions.
hat is the point of all of this? First, it is important to remember that the projection of the consciousness is a (para)physiological and inevitable phenomenon. Everyone spontaneously projects every night, but the overwhelming majority of the population projects with a complete lack of lucidity and, consequently, has no physical recall of these experiences. The projective experience is a natural extension of daily life and engenders personal growth through interaction with extraphysical consciousnesses and events. The developing projector will gradually begin to make use of that one-third of life that is lost during sleep as the body needs sleep, but the consciousness doesn't. Additionally, OBE will accelerate a person's consciential maturation, eventually achieving a state of continuous consciousness (continuous lucidity regardless of whether the body is sleeping or awake) and, finally, become a free consciousness that no longer has to return to physical life.
Conclusion
Everyone leaves their body nightly during sleep. However, only about 1% of humanity is able to spontaneously or voluntarily achieve lucid projections of the consciousness and recall their extraphysical experiences. Anyone can project if s/he can overcome the fears and insecurities that most people have, knows how to work with his or her bioenergies and acts in accordance with the cosmoethic. The long-term benefits of interdimensionality are so many and transcendent that the effort and discipline required to realize lucid projections is well worthwhile.
About The Author
Wagner Alegretti is an electronic engineer and a charter member of International Institute of Projectiology (IIP). Wagner teaches Projectiology courses internationally in English, Portuguese and Spanish, and has been having conscious projections since childhood. The IIP is an independent private, nonprofit organization founded by individuals who decided to formalize their experiences and discoveries in the parapsychic field. You may contact Wagner at: IIP, 545 - 8th Ave, Suite 401, New York, NY 10018.
#115
Welcome to Astral Chat! / 12 Monkeys
March 29, 2003, 00:09:20
12 MONKEYS
CAST & CREW
Bruce Willis, Madeleine Stowe, Brad Pitt
Directed by Terry Gilliam
more...
I recently rented this film and watched it. I had seen before, about six years ago or so. What a great film! I am not a big fan of Hollywood movies, but this is one of the best American studio films that has been released in the last 10 years or so in my opinion (it was released in 1995).
Here is the synopsis:
"In this intriguing science fiction film from director Terry Gilliam, penal colony prisoner James Cole must travel back in time from the year 2035 to find the cause of a virus that killed five billion people in 1997.
Cole's trip into the past won't be easy. For starters, he winds up in the wrong year on his first attempt. Once, as he time-travels, Cole ends up a prisoner in an insane asylum in 1990. There, he meets psychiatrist Kathryn Railly and inmate Jeffrey Goines, who could hold the key to the epidemic's spread. Cole later winds up in the middle of a World War I battlefield.
After meeting James for a second time, in another year, Dr. Railly gets further involved in his quest. Although she thinks at first that Cole must be crazy, Kathryn soon starts to believe him and attempts to help.
But James has already started to question his own sanity and tries to figure out if his journeys through time are real or if he's just been imagining everything."
Visually it's stunning (thanks to Gilliam's amazing direction). The surreal, chaotic vision of the future juxtaposed to the gritty urban landscape of the mid-nineties is wonderfully compelling.
Great acting and a mind trip---two things I like a whole lot. The film kind of reminds me of a mix between, ummmm, A Beautiful Mind and a a sci-fi film noir. ANYWAY, those of you who have seen it probably know what I am talking about and those of you who haven't seen it I recommend watching it. Many people didn't like it because they found it hard to understand, but I think most people in here are openminded and intelligent enough to digest it.
-Dan
More facts on the film:
TIDBITS
Released theatrically in New York City and Los Angeles December 27, 1995; released nationwide in the USA January 6, 1996. The film went ape at the box office, grossing $57 million domestically.
12 MONKEYS was inspired by Chris Marker's short film LA JETEE. Marker's work, which is now considered a classic, consists almost completely of still photos, with the exception of one moving image.
A presentation of Atlas/Classico.
Shot on location in Philadelphia and Baltimore.
In DTS Sound.
Additional credits: Vincent Montefusco (special effects mechanical and pyrotechnic engineer) and Shirley Montefusco (special effects project manager).
Rated BBFC 15 by the British Board of Film Classification.
Copyright 1995 Universal City Studios, Inc.
CAST & CREW
Bruce Willis, Madeleine Stowe, Brad Pitt
Directed by Terry Gilliam
more...
I recently rented this film and watched it. I had seen before, about six years ago or so. What a great film! I am not a big fan of Hollywood movies, but this is one of the best American studio films that has been released in the last 10 years or so in my opinion (it was released in 1995).
Here is the synopsis:
"In this intriguing science fiction film from director Terry Gilliam, penal colony prisoner James Cole must travel back in time from the year 2035 to find the cause of a virus that killed five billion people in 1997.
Cole's trip into the past won't be easy. For starters, he winds up in the wrong year on his first attempt. Once, as he time-travels, Cole ends up a prisoner in an insane asylum in 1990. There, he meets psychiatrist Kathryn Railly and inmate Jeffrey Goines, who could hold the key to the epidemic's spread. Cole later winds up in the middle of a World War I battlefield.
After meeting James for a second time, in another year, Dr. Railly gets further involved in his quest. Although she thinks at first that Cole must be crazy, Kathryn soon starts to believe him and attempts to help.
But James has already started to question his own sanity and tries to figure out if his journeys through time are real or if he's just been imagining everything."
Visually it's stunning (thanks to Gilliam's amazing direction). The surreal, chaotic vision of the future juxtaposed to the gritty urban landscape of the mid-nineties is wonderfully compelling.
Great acting and a mind trip---two things I like a whole lot. The film kind of reminds me of a mix between, ummmm, A Beautiful Mind and a a sci-fi film noir. ANYWAY, those of you who have seen it probably know what I am talking about and those of you who haven't seen it I recommend watching it. Many people didn't like it because they found it hard to understand, but I think most people in here are openminded and intelligent enough to digest it.
-Dan
More facts on the film:
TIDBITS
Released theatrically in New York City and Los Angeles December 27, 1995; released nationwide in the USA January 6, 1996. The film went ape at the box office, grossing $57 million domestically.
12 MONKEYS was inspired by Chris Marker's short film LA JETEE. Marker's work, which is now considered a classic, consists almost completely of still photos, with the exception of one moving image.
A presentation of Atlas/Classico.
Shot on location in Philadelphia and Baltimore.
In DTS Sound.
Additional credits: Vincent Montefusco (special effects mechanical and pyrotechnic engineer) and Shirley Montefusco (special effects project manager).
Rated BBFC 15 by the British Board of Film Classification.
Copyright 1995 Universal City Studios, Inc.
#116
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Hey, how do you RIP?
March 21, 2003, 02:39:55
I have been looking for an easy way to RIP cd's (copy them from the disk) to my hardrive. I dont care really if they're ripped to WAV or MP3, so as long as I get them on the drive...
I was happy to find out Window Media Player (the latest) does so really easily BUT I was NOT HAPPY to find out it rips them into WMA format, which I subsequently can't burn to CD or convert, at least wthout buying some dumb program.
How do you rip? Which program do you use?
Any help would be appreciated!
-Dan
I was happy to find out Window Media Player (the latest) does so really easily BUT I was NOT HAPPY to find out it rips them into WMA format, which I subsequently can't burn to CD or convert, at least wthout buying some dumb program.
How do you rip? Which program do you use?
Any help would be appreciated!
-Dan
#117
Welcome to Astral Chat! / I'll Be Damned!
March 19, 2003, 01:12:07
"I'll be Damned!" is a thread in which you can post amazing/funny/interesting facts. Come on, shock us!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
How much is a billion? Well, 37 billion seconds is equal to 37 years! Whoa, I'll be damned!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
How much is a billion? Well, 37 billion seconds is equal to 37 years! Whoa, I'll be damned!
#118
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Jelly Filled Earth Theory
March 17, 2003, 00:53:56
I have this new theory. The other day an acquaintance of mine was sitting outside in a beautiful park with hislovely wife. They were just minding our business, having a delightful picnic when all of the sudden his hand sunk into the grass. When he pulled it out it was covered in what appeared to be grape jelly! He was shocked and finally decided to confirm the fact by licking it off his hand. "Yep," he said, "grape jelly."
I haven't heard anything since he told me about this, but I have this new theory that the Earth is actually filled with grape jelly. I feel a little betrayed, however, that "they" never taught me anything about this in school. Major conspiracy if you ask me.
More info is forthcoming!
I haven't heard anything since he told me about this, but I have this new theory that the Earth is actually filled with grape jelly. I feel a little betrayed, however, that "they" never taught me anything about this in school. Major conspiracy if you ask me.
More info is forthcoming!
#119
Welcome to Astral Chat! / What is the best martial art/self-defense?
March 17, 2003, 00:28:54
I think there are a few people in here who practice one form or another of martial arts, so this question is for them.
Ok, while I am sure there isn't a single "best" martial art, I guess my questions is really which form is easiest to learn and is the most practical for a situation that might arise in the street or in a restraunt.
I live in the LA area and have been jummped (and subsequently beaten/stabbed), I have broken up fights on numerous occasions (once right outside a restraunt in front of my own family), and have had a knife stuck to my throat and my wallet demanded (I didn't give it to the guy, just for the record).
I own several firearms, but normally keep them at home. I have decided that I need learn to act/react quickly using my physical body just in case. So my needs are practical and real, and I am also fascinated by the energy development that some martial arts include.
-Dan
Ok, while I am sure there isn't a single "best" martial art, I guess my questions is really which form is easiest to learn and is the most practical for a situation that might arise in the street or in a restraunt.
I live in the LA area and have been jummped (and subsequently beaten/stabbed), I have broken up fights on numerous occasions (once right outside a restraunt in front of my own family), and have had a knife stuck to my throat and my wallet demanded (I didn't give it to the guy, just for the record).
I own several firearms, but normally keep them at home. I have decided that I need learn to act/react quickly using my physical body just in case. So my needs are practical and real, and I am also fascinated by the energy development that some martial arts include.
-Dan
#120
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Can Fish Talk?CHECK THIS OUT:Carp speaks Hebrew...
March 16, 2003, 01:35:37
I, am course, am skeptical...but who knows. CHeck this out:
Word is made flesh...as a fish! 
][][][][][]
Edward Helmore New York
Sunday March 16, 2003
The Observer
An obscure Jewish sect in New York has been gripped in awe by what it believes to be a mystical visitation by a 20lb carp that was heard shouting in Hebrew, in what many Jews worldwide are hailing as a modern miracle.
Many of the 7,000-member Skver sect of Hasidim in New Square, 30 miles north of Manhattan, believe God has revealed himself in fish form.
According to two fish-cutters at the New Square Fish Market, the carp was about to be slaughtered and made into gefilte fish for Sabbath dinner when it suddenly began shouting apocalyptic warnings in Hebrew.
Many believe the carp was channelling the troubled soul of a revered community elder who recently died; others say it was God. The only witnesses to the mystical show were Zalmen Rosen, a 57-year-old Hasid with 11 children, and his co-worker, Luis Nivelo. They say that on 28 January at 4pm they were about to club the carp on the head when it began yelling.
Nivelo, a Gentile who does not understand Hebrew, was so shocked at the sight of a fish talking in any language that he fell over. He ran into the front of the store screaming: 'It's the Devil! The Devil is here!' Then the shop owner heard it shouting warnings and commands too.
'It said "Tzaruch shemirah" and "Hasof bah",' he told the New York Times, 'which essentially means that everyone needs to account for themselves because the end is near.'
The animated carp commanded Rosen to pray and study the Torah. Rosen tried to kill the fish but injured himself. It was finally butchered by Nivelo and sold.
However, word spread far and wide and Nivelo complains he has been plagued by phone calls from as far away as London and Israel. The story has since been amplified by repetition and some now believe the fish's outburst was a warning about the dangers of the impending war in Iraq.
Some say they fear the born-again President Bush believes he is preparing the world for the Second Coming of Christ, and war in Iraq is just the opening salvo in the battle of Armageddon.
Local resident Abraham Spitz said: 'Two men do not dream the same dream. It is very rare that God reminds people he exists in this modern world. But when he does, you cannot ignore it.'
Others in New Square discount the apocalyptic reading altogether and suggest the notion of a talking fish is as fictional as Tony Soprano's talking-fish dream in an episode of The Sopranos .
Stand-up comedians have already incorporated the carp into their comedy routines at weddings. One gefilte company has considered changing it's slogan to: 'Our fish speaks for itself.'
Still, the shouting carp corresponds with the belief of some Hasidic sects that righteous people can be reincarnated as fish. They say that Nivelo may have been selected because he is not Jewish, but a weary Nivelo told the New York Times : 'I wish I never said anything about it. I'm getting so many calls every day, I've stopped answering. Israel, London, Miami, Brooklyn. They all want to hear about the talking fish.'
A devout Christian, he still thinks the carp was the Devil. 'I don't believe any of this Jewish stuff. But I heard that fish talk.'
He's grown tired of the whole thing. 'It's just a big headache for me,' he added. 'I pull my phone out of the wall at night. I don't sleep and I've lost weight.'
------------------------------------------
A Jewish fish story to top all
This critter spoke -- in Hebrew, yet -- and claimed to be Hasidic
COREY KILGANNON
New York Times
NEW SQUARE, N.Y. - And so it came to pass that a talking carp, shouting in Hebrew, shattered the calm of the New Square Fish Market and created what many here are calling a miracle.
Of course, others are calling it a whopping fish story concocted by a couple of meshugenehs (fools). Whatever one calls it, the tale of the talking fish has spread in recent weeks throughout this tight-knit community, populated by about 7,000 members of the Skver sect of Hasidim, and throughout the Hasidic world, inspiring heated debate and derisive jokes.
The story goes that a 20-pound carp about to be made into gefilte fish for Sabbath dinner began speaking in Hebrew, shouting apocalyptic warnings and claiming to be the troubled soul of a revered community elder who recently died.
Many people here believe it was God revealing himself that day to two fish cutters in the New Square Fish Market, Zalmen Rosen, a 57-year-old Hasid with 11 children, and his co-worker Luis Nivelo, a 30-year-old Ecuadorian immigrant.
The two men say they each have gotten hundreds of phone calls from Jews all over the world.
"Ah, enough already about the fish," Rosen said Thursday at the shop, as he skinned a large carp. "I wish I never said anything about it. I'm getting so many calls every day, I've stopped answering. Israel, London, Miami, Brooklyn. They all want to hear about the talking fish."
Here then is the story, according to the two men, the only witnesses. Rosen, whose family owns the store, and Nivelo, who has worked at the shop for seven years, say that at 4 p.m. Jan. 28 they were carving up carp. Nivelo, who is not Jewish, lifted a live carp out of a box of iced-down fish and was about to club it in the head with a rubber hammer.
But the fish began speaking in Hebrew, according to the two men.
Nivelo does not understand Hebrew, but the shock of a fish speaking any language startled him. He ran into the front of the store screaming, "The fish is talking!" and pulled Rosen away from the phone.
"I screamed, `It's the devil! The devil is here!' " he recalled. "But Zalmen said to me, `You crazy, you a meshugeneh.' "
But Rosen said that when he approached the fish, he heard it uttering warnings and commands in Hebrew.
"It said `Tzaruch shemirah' and `Hasof bah,' " he said, "which essentially means everyone needs to account for themselves, because the end is near."
The fish commanded Rosen to pray and to study the Torah and identified itself as the soul of a local Hasidic man who died last year, childless. The man often bought carp at the shop for the Sabbath meals of poorer village residents.
Rosen panicked and tried to kill the fish with a machete-size knife. But the fish bucked so wildly that Rosen wound up cutting his own thumb and was taken to the hospital by ambulance. The fish flopped off the counter and back into the carp box and was butchered by Nivell and sold.
Whether hoax or historic event, it jibes with the belief of some Hasidic sects that righteous people can be reincarnated as fish.
Unnatural occurrences play a part in the mystical beliefs of members of the Skver sect. On the other hand, some skeptics note that the Jewish festival of Purim, which starts Monday night, is marked by merriment and pranks, which might be a less elevated explanation for the story.
Nivelo, a practicing Christian, still believes the babbling carp was the devil. His wife told him he was crazy, and his 6-year-old daughter even laughs at him.
"I don't believe any of this Jewish stuff," he said. "I heard that fish talk."
More on this:
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~1245340,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/15/nyregion/15FISH.html?
Word is made flesh...as a fish! ![
][][][][][]Edward Helmore New York
Sunday March 16, 2003
The Observer
An obscure Jewish sect in New York has been gripped in awe by what it believes to be a mystical visitation by a 20lb carp that was heard shouting in Hebrew, in what many Jews worldwide are hailing as a modern miracle.
Many of the 7,000-member Skver sect of Hasidim in New Square, 30 miles north of Manhattan, believe God has revealed himself in fish form.
According to two fish-cutters at the New Square Fish Market, the carp was about to be slaughtered and made into gefilte fish for Sabbath dinner when it suddenly began shouting apocalyptic warnings in Hebrew.
Many believe the carp was channelling the troubled soul of a revered community elder who recently died; others say it was God. The only witnesses to the mystical show were Zalmen Rosen, a 57-year-old Hasid with 11 children, and his co-worker, Luis Nivelo. They say that on 28 January at 4pm they were about to club the carp on the head when it began yelling.
Nivelo, a Gentile who does not understand Hebrew, was so shocked at the sight of a fish talking in any language that he fell over. He ran into the front of the store screaming: 'It's the Devil! The Devil is here!' Then the shop owner heard it shouting warnings and commands too.
'It said "Tzaruch shemirah" and "Hasof bah",' he told the New York Times, 'which essentially means that everyone needs to account for themselves because the end is near.'
The animated carp commanded Rosen to pray and study the Torah. Rosen tried to kill the fish but injured himself. It was finally butchered by Nivelo and sold.
However, word spread far and wide and Nivelo complains he has been plagued by phone calls from as far away as London and Israel. The story has since been amplified by repetition and some now believe the fish's outburst was a warning about the dangers of the impending war in Iraq.
Some say they fear the born-again President Bush believes he is preparing the world for the Second Coming of Christ, and war in Iraq is just the opening salvo in the battle of Armageddon.
Local resident Abraham Spitz said: 'Two men do not dream the same dream. It is very rare that God reminds people he exists in this modern world. But when he does, you cannot ignore it.'
Others in New Square discount the apocalyptic reading altogether and suggest the notion of a talking fish is as fictional as Tony Soprano's talking-fish dream in an episode of The Sopranos .
Stand-up comedians have already incorporated the carp into their comedy routines at weddings. One gefilte company has considered changing it's slogan to: 'Our fish speaks for itself.'
Still, the shouting carp corresponds with the belief of some Hasidic sects that righteous people can be reincarnated as fish. They say that Nivelo may have been selected because he is not Jewish, but a weary Nivelo told the New York Times : 'I wish I never said anything about it. I'm getting so many calls every day, I've stopped answering. Israel, London, Miami, Brooklyn. They all want to hear about the talking fish.'
A devout Christian, he still thinks the carp was the Devil. 'I don't believe any of this Jewish stuff. But I heard that fish talk.'
He's grown tired of the whole thing. 'It's just a big headache for me,' he added. 'I pull my phone out of the wall at night. I don't sleep and I've lost weight.'
------------------------------------------
A Jewish fish story to top all
This critter spoke -- in Hebrew, yet -- and claimed to be Hasidic
COREY KILGANNON
New York Times
NEW SQUARE, N.Y. - And so it came to pass that a talking carp, shouting in Hebrew, shattered the calm of the New Square Fish Market and created what many here are calling a miracle.
Of course, others are calling it a whopping fish story concocted by a couple of meshugenehs (fools). Whatever one calls it, the tale of the talking fish has spread in recent weeks throughout this tight-knit community, populated by about 7,000 members of the Skver sect of Hasidim, and throughout the Hasidic world, inspiring heated debate and derisive jokes.
The story goes that a 20-pound carp about to be made into gefilte fish for Sabbath dinner began speaking in Hebrew, shouting apocalyptic warnings and claiming to be the troubled soul of a revered community elder who recently died.
Many people here believe it was God revealing himself that day to two fish cutters in the New Square Fish Market, Zalmen Rosen, a 57-year-old Hasid with 11 children, and his co-worker Luis Nivelo, a 30-year-old Ecuadorian immigrant.
The two men say they each have gotten hundreds of phone calls from Jews all over the world.
"Ah, enough already about the fish," Rosen said Thursday at the shop, as he skinned a large carp. "I wish I never said anything about it. I'm getting so many calls every day, I've stopped answering. Israel, London, Miami, Brooklyn. They all want to hear about the talking fish."
Here then is the story, according to the two men, the only witnesses. Rosen, whose family owns the store, and Nivelo, who has worked at the shop for seven years, say that at 4 p.m. Jan. 28 they were carving up carp. Nivelo, who is not Jewish, lifted a live carp out of a box of iced-down fish and was about to club it in the head with a rubber hammer.
But the fish began speaking in Hebrew, according to the two men.
Nivelo does not understand Hebrew, but the shock of a fish speaking any language startled him. He ran into the front of the store screaming, "The fish is talking!" and pulled Rosen away from the phone.
"I screamed, `It's the devil! The devil is here!' " he recalled. "But Zalmen said to me, `You crazy, you a meshugeneh.' "
But Rosen said that when he approached the fish, he heard it uttering warnings and commands in Hebrew.
"It said `Tzaruch shemirah' and `Hasof bah,' " he said, "which essentially means everyone needs to account for themselves, because the end is near."
The fish commanded Rosen to pray and to study the Torah and identified itself as the soul of a local Hasidic man who died last year, childless. The man often bought carp at the shop for the Sabbath meals of poorer village residents.
Rosen panicked and tried to kill the fish with a machete-size knife. But the fish bucked so wildly that Rosen wound up cutting his own thumb and was taken to the hospital by ambulance. The fish flopped off the counter and back into the carp box and was butchered by Nivell and sold.
Whether hoax or historic event, it jibes with the belief of some Hasidic sects that righteous people can be reincarnated as fish.
Unnatural occurrences play a part in the mystical beliefs of members of the Skver sect. On the other hand, some skeptics note that the Jewish festival of Purim, which starts Monday night, is marked by merriment and pranks, which might be a less elevated explanation for the story.
Nivelo, a practicing Christian, still believes the babbling carp was the devil. His wife told him he was crazy, and his 6-year-old daughter even laughs at him.
"I don't believe any of this Jewish stuff," he said. "I heard that fish talk."
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~1245340,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/15/nyregion/15FISH.html?
#121
Welcome to Astral Chat! / One Persons Take on the WAR Question...
March 16, 2003, 01:29:14
Why we should go to war with Iraq
Julie Burchill
Saturday February 1, 2003
The Guardian
In the mode of Basil Fawlty, I've tried not to mention the war. I know that Guardian readers are massively opposed to any action against Saddam Hussein, as are 90% of the people I love and respect both personally and professionally. But I am in favour of war against Iraq - or, rather, I am in favour of a smaller war now rather than a far worse war later. I speak as someone who was born and raised to be anti-American; I know that, even in my lifetime, America has behaved monstrously in Latin America, Indo-China and its own southern states. I was against the US because, whenever people sought autonomy, freedom and justice, it was against them. But that narrative is ended now and a new configuration has emerged.
The new enemies of America, and of the west in general, believe that these countries promote too much autonomy, freedom and justice. They are the opposite of socialism even more than they are the opposite of capitalism. They are against light, love, life - and to attempt to pass them the baton of enlightenment borne by the likes of Mandela and Guevara is woefully to misunderstand the nature and desires of what Christopher Hitchens (a life-long man of the left) described as "Islamo-fascism".
When you look back at the common sense and progressiveness of arguments against American intervention in Vietnam, Chile and the like, you can't help but be struck by the sheer befuddled babyishness of the pro-Saddam apologists:
1) "It's all about oil!" Like hyperactive brats who get hold of one phrase and repeat it endlessly, this naive and prissy mantra is enough to drive to the point of madness any person who actually attempts to think beyond the clichés. Like "Whatever!" it is one of the few ways in which the dull-minded think they can have the last word in any argument. So what if it is about oil, in part? Are you prepared to give up your car and central heating and go back to the Dark Ages? If not, don't be such a hypocrite. The fact is that this war is about freedom, justice - and oil. It's called multitasking. Get used to it!
2) "But we sold him the weapons!" An incredible excuse for not fighting, this one - almost surreal in its logic. If the west sold him the weapons that helped make him the monstrous power that he is, responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of Iranians, Kurds, Kuwaitis and Iraqis, then surely it is our responsibility to redress our greed and ignorance by doing the lion's share in getting rid of him.
3) "America's always interfering in other countries!" And when it's not, it is derided as selfish and isolationist. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
4) "Saddam Hussein may have killed hundreds of thousands of his own people - but he hasn't done anything to us! We shouldn't invade any country unless it attacks us!" I love this one, it's so mind-bogglingly selfish - and it's always wheeled out by people who call themselves "internationalists", too. These were the people who thought that a population living in terror under the Taliban was preferable to a bit of liberating foreign fire power, even fighting side by side with an Afghani resistance. On this principle, if we'd known about Hitler gassing the Jews all through the 1930s, we still shouldn't have invaded Germany; the Jews were, after all, German citizens and not our business. If you really think it's better for more people to die over decades under a tyrannical regime than for fewer people to die during a brief attack by an outside power, you're really weird and nationalistic and not any sort of socialist that I recognise. And that's where you link up with all those nasty rightwing columnists who are so opposed to fighting Iraq; they, too, believe that the lives of a thousand coloured chappies aren't worth the death of one British soldier. Military inaction, unless in the defence of one's own country, is the most extreme form of narcissism and nationalism; people who preach it are the exact opposite of the International Brigade, and that's so not a good look.
5) "Ooo, your friends smell!" Well, so do yours. We may be saddled with Bush and Blair, but you've got Prince Charles (a big friend of the Islamic world, probably because of its large number of feudal kingdoms and hardline attitude to uppity women), the Catholic church (taking a brief break from buggering babies to condemn any western attack as "morally unacceptable") and posturing pansies such as Sean Penn, Sheryl Crow and Damon Albarn.
Oh, and we've also got Condoleezza Rice, the coolest, cleverest, most powerful black woman since Cleopatra, and you've got the Mothers' Union, with their risible prayer for Iraq's people, a prime piece of prissy, pacifist twaddle that even Hallmark "Forever Friends" would reject as not intellectually or aesthetically rigorous enough.
So, all in all, and at the risk of being extremely babyish myself, I'd go so far as to say that my argument's bigger than yours. Of course, you think the same about your side. And we won't change our minds. Ever. So let's do each other a favour and agree not to rattle each other's cages (playpens?) until the whole thing's over. Free speech and diversity - let's enjoy it! Even though our brothers and sisters, the suffering, tortured slaves of Saddam, can't. Yet. Still, soon.
Julie Burchill
Saturday February 1, 2003
The Guardian
In the mode of Basil Fawlty, I've tried not to mention the war. I know that Guardian readers are massively opposed to any action against Saddam Hussein, as are 90% of the people I love and respect both personally and professionally. But I am in favour of war against Iraq - or, rather, I am in favour of a smaller war now rather than a far worse war later. I speak as someone who was born and raised to be anti-American; I know that, even in my lifetime, America has behaved monstrously in Latin America, Indo-China and its own southern states. I was against the US because, whenever people sought autonomy, freedom and justice, it was against them. But that narrative is ended now and a new configuration has emerged.
The new enemies of America, and of the west in general, believe that these countries promote too much autonomy, freedom and justice. They are the opposite of socialism even more than they are the opposite of capitalism. They are against light, love, life - and to attempt to pass them the baton of enlightenment borne by the likes of Mandela and Guevara is woefully to misunderstand the nature and desires of what Christopher Hitchens (a life-long man of the left) described as "Islamo-fascism".
When you look back at the common sense and progressiveness of arguments against American intervention in Vietnam, Chile and the like, you can't help but be struck by the sheer befuddled babyishness of the pro-Saddam apologists:
1) "It's all about oil!" Like hyperactive brats who get hold of one phrase and repeat it endlessly, this naive and prissy mantra is enough to drive to the point of madness any person who actually attempts to think beyond the clichés. Like "Whatever!" it is one of the few ways in which the dull-minded think they can have the last word in any argument. So what if it is about oil, in part? Are you prepared to give up your car and central heating and go back to the Dark Ages? If not, don't be such a hypocrite. The fact is that this war is about freedom, justice - and oil. It's called multitasking. Get used to it!
2) "But we sold him the weapons!" An incredible excuse for not fighting, this one - almost surreal in its logic. If the west sold him the weapons that helped make him the monstrous power that he is, responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of Iranians, Kurds, Kuwaitis and Iraqis, then surely it is our responsibility to redress our greed and ignorance by doing the lion's share in getting rid of him.
3) "America's always interfering in other countries!" And when it's not, it is derided as selfish and isolationist. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
4) "Saddam Hussein may have killed hundreds of thousands of his own people - but he hasn't done anything to us! We shouldn't invade any country unless it attacks us!" I love this one, it's so mind-bogglingly selfish - and it's always wheeled out by people who call themselves "internationalists", too. These were the people who thought that a population living in terror under the Taliban was preferable to a bit of liberating foreign fire power, even fighting side by side with an Afghani resistance. On this principle, if we'd known about Hitler gassing the Jews all through the 1930s, we still shouldn't have invaded Germany; the Jews were, after all, German citizens and not our business. If you really think it's better for more people to die over decades under a tyrannical regime than for fewer people to die during a brief attack by an outside power, you're really weird and nationalistic and not any sort of socialist that I recognise. And that's where you link up with all those nasty rightwing columnists who are so opposed to fighting Iraq; they, too, believe that the lives of a thousand coloured chappies aren't worth the death of one British soldier. Military inaction, unless in the defence of one's own country, is the most extreme form of narcissism and nationalism; people who preach it are the exact opposite of the International Brigade, and that's so not a good look.
5) "Ooo, your friends smell!" Well, so do yours. We may be saddled with Bush and Blair, but you've got Prince Charles (a big friend of the Islamic world, probably because of its large number of feudal kingdoms and hardline attitude to uppity women), the Catholic church (taking a brief break from buggering babies to condemn any western attack as "morally unacceptable") and posturing pansies such as Sean Penn, Sheryl Crow and Damon Albarn.
Oh, and we've also got Condoleezza Rice, the coolest, cleverest, most powerful black woman since Cleopatra, and you've got the Mothers' Union, with their risible prayer for Iraq's people, a prime piece of prissy, pacifist twaddle that even Hallmark "Forever Friends" would reject as not intellectually or aesthetically rigorous enough.
So, all in all, and at the risk of being extremely babyish myself, I'd go so far as to say that my argument's bigger than yours. Of course, you think the same about your side. And we won't change our minds. Ever. So let's do each other a favour and agree not to rattle each other's cages (playpens?) until the whole thing's over. Free speech and diversity - let's enjoy it! Even though our brothers and sisters, the suffering, tortured slaves of Saddam, can't. Yet. Still, soon.
#122
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Elizabeth Smart...what do you think?
March 14, 2003, 01:23:11
What the heck is going on? She was living in the hills behind her house?! Who's this guy she was with? Was she drugged, brain washed, trying to escape her parents/family? And for that matter, what's up with her family?
I for one would like to know what went on. What are your thoughts, theories?? I am looking forward to the time when all of this is brought to light.
Go to this link for some articles about it:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=elizabeth+smart
I for one would like to know what went on. What are your thoughts, theories?? I am looking forward to the time when all of this is brought to light.
Go to this link for some articles about it:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=elizabeth+smart
#123
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Building my own site
February 27, 2003, 02:22:32
I have my own website now, just a geocities one...it's up but constantly under construction. Anyway, I am having some trouble with script errors in HTML...anyone out there know much about this stuff and have an idea of what I need to do to get rid of this error?
btw here my address:
www.geocities.com/danieljohntodd
btw here my address:
www.geocities.com/danieljohntodd
#124
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Interview with Saddam Hussein->propaganda and lies
February 26, 2003, 13:25:08
Starting tonight a number of interviews (at least one or two for sure) will be aired on t.v. across the world. Of course a million new stories and summaries, etc. will be offered regarding what Sadaam says. The bottom line is that he is going to mix some truth in with a lot of lie.
I have compiled some news articles below regarding the interviews. I am interested to hear what you all think, especially after the interview(s) air.
----------------------
Rather's Saddam interview draws skeptics
By Jennifer Harper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
CBS newsman Dan Rather landed a three-hour interview with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein on Monday, revealing "Saddam's feelings on his own people, the American public, Osama bin Laden and what his own fate might be," according to CBS, which quickly went into showbiz mode.
"There are just two men in the world now who can prevent a new U.S.-led war in Iraq, and CBS news anchor Dan Rather sat down with one of them," CBS said yesterday.
But did the interview become a vehicle for Iraq's agenda in the process?
"We're aware of the CBS tape. We'll watch the tape, and we believe in freedom of the press," a State Department official said yesterday. "Will it be factual? We have to wait and see. Saddam has a track record of not being upfront."
Shortly after September 11, the White House and State Department became alarmed that Western journalists could be manipulated by media-savvy terrorists. At the time, White House adviser Condoleezza Rice suggested that broadcasters use careful judgment when airing material released by bin Laden.
Grumbling about First Amendment rights all the way, broadcasters complied for a time. But the climate has changed.
Since Monday, Mr. Rather's interview has been teased on CBS radio and television, with substantial portions to air tonight on "60 Minutes II." The interview was heralded as "one of the news coups of the year" by the Hollywood Reporter trade publication.
The newsman said it was all because of "hard work and luck," though an Associated Press report said Mr. Rather had the help of former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, now an anti-war activist who met with Saddam on Sunday.
Mr. Clark has his own agenda. In January, he drafted articles of impeachment against President Bush, Vice President Richard B. Cheney and other officials, who he says he believes must "answer to the people."
Meanwhile, Mr. Rather's interview is not as rare as it may seem: ABC's Peter Jennings and NBC's Tom Brokaw also tried to reach Saddam. All three were outfoxed by former British Labor leader and peace activist Tony Benn, who interviewed Saddam for Arab Television three weeks ago.
Mr. Benn described Saddam as "courteous and forthcoming."
Mr. Rather also used personal observations, calling Saddam "a tall man."
"He walked a little stiffly. I think that may be because of these reports he has a bad back. But he was very calm."
The Media Research Center took Mr. Rather to task yesterday for saying he had a startling scoop: Saddam had "challenged" President Bush to a televised debate. No such scoop, the center pointed out. Saddam had proposed the same thing in a 1990 interview with Mr. Rather.
The CBS "appetite for promotion is plugging up its nose for news," noted Tim Graham of the research center.
The interview may be a bona fide scoop for Mr. Rather and a legitimate promotional tool for CBS [yeah right!], said Robert Steele, a media ethics analyst for the Florida-based Poynter Institute, a journalism research group.
"What shouldn't happen, however, is to hold back meaningful news to benefit promotional strategies," Mr. Steele said yesterday.
And when short on meaningful news, some extrapolate.
ABC News issued a report yesterday on Saddam's troubled psychological background. Saddam's "difficult childhood leads to 'wounded self,' — a fragile personality who is very sensitive to perceived slights," ABC said.
MSNBC, in the meantime, is crafting a new wartime footing. The network fired prime-time host Phil Donahue yesterday because of poor ratings, replacing him with an expanded version of "Countdown: Iraq," with Lester Holt.
----------------
White House wants to reply to Saddam interview
2/26/2003 2:42 PM
By: Associated Press
(WHITE HOUSE) -- The White House is asking CBS News for a chance to reply to the Saddam Hussein interview that's airing Wednesday night.
Press Secretary Ari Fleischer says the administration views what the Iraqi dictator says in the interview as "propaganda and lies."
Fleischer says CBS anchor Dan Rather deserves congratulations for landing the interview (appearing on "60 Minutes Two"). But he says it's appropriate for the White House to have a response.
Fleischer says talks with CBS are continuing as to when a response might air, and who would give it.
The spokesman adds that journalists are likely to face "interesting and difficult" decisions as the Iraqi regime puts forward officials to tell its side of the story.
----------------------
Saddam Hussein, Reporter
After Exclusive CBS Interview, Iraqi Leader Quizzed Dan Rather
advertisement
_____OnPolitics_____
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 26, 2003; 8:17 AM
We'll get to our other news in a moment, but first, our top story (we've always liked the way that sounds):
When the cameras were turned off after more than an hour and a half, it was Saddam Hussein's turn to interview Dan Rather.
The Iraqi leader led the CBS anchor to the overstuffed leather chairs in his high-ceilinged Baghdad office and "had questions about American public opinion and President Bush," Rather recalled yesterday from the Jordanian desert. "I said, 'Mr. President, you asked me and I will try to answer you. A lot of these answers I don't think you're going to like.'
"There's always some discomfort in that kind of situation. I wasn't going to trim the answers to suit what I thought he wanted to hear. I told him American public opinion was behind President Bush.
"I think he said, 'Not as much as it was.'" Rather responded that "Americans like to debate and discuss things and vent" but were still backing Bush.
Hussein's first interview with an American journalist in 13 years – a coup for the 71-year-old Rather – could hardly have come under more dramatic circumstances, with the two nations poised on the brink of war. Not since Walter Cronkite brokered Anwar Sadat's 1977 visit to Jerusalem to begin Egyptian-Israeli peace talks has a television reporter played such a high-profile role in the Middle East.
Part of the Monday interview with Hussein aired on last night's "CBS Evening News," and "60 Minutes II" will carry substantial portions tonight.
Even before the tape could be edited and translated, Rather's summary of Hussein's responses – challenging Bush to a debate and refusing to destroy missiles that U.N. inspectors say must be scrapped – made global headlines.
Rather was mindful of the stakes. When he arrived in Baghdad, he said, "I went to my hotel room and started preparing lists of questions and tried to memorize an outline of the questions. I had 31 or 32 questions. I put them in three different orders. I practiced them. I sat in front of the mirror and pretended he was on the other side and tried out the questions."
As for how he got the interview, which was sought by a slew of other network anchors, Rather said: "I'm a reporter who got lucky. . . . You work hard, work your sources, make your contacts, not get discouraged, just keep coming."
It probably helped that Rather, along with Peter Jennings and Diane Sawyer, had interviewed Hussein in 1990. "At least I was a known quantity to them. . . . I thought in 1990 they wanted someone who had a reputation of being independent and had credibility. I came out of the 1990 interview feeling I had done what I said I would do."
Rather is apparently the first American to meet with Hussein since then-Rep. Bill Richardson (D-N.M.) visited the Iraqi leader in 1995 to win the release of two Americans imprisoned there.
After arriving in Baghdad – following a 10-hour drive from Amman – Rather and his executive producer, Jim Murphy, met with Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz in his office Sunday night. Rather, who has known Aziz since the 1980s, called him "the last gatekeeper," although he says Aziz cautioned him: "There may be no interview with anyone. I don't make the decision. The president makes the decision."
Why did Hussein agree? "I simply don't know," said Rather. "Among the ingredients, in no particular order: He knows the time draws nigh for an attack. He takes President Bush very seriously in saying that time is up. Secondly, he reads the papers and knows what his standing is with the American people. He probably felt – and I'm going pretty far afield here – he had something to lose, but under the present circumstances he might have had something to gain in getting to the American people who he is, what he is, what his position is."
Although Iraq could face a military assault by the United States and Britain within weeks, the atmosphere, Rather observed, was not particularly tense.
Hussein "was to all outward appearances calm. He was unhurried. He comes across as confident. He has what military people call command presence. Some may argue this was studied; I can only report what I saw, heard and felt in that room."
Unfortunately for Rather, the interview "got off to a slow start." He had to wait for one interpreter to translate his questions and a second interpreter to provide Hussein's answers.
"It's hard – I'm not complaining about it – to build a rhythm to the interview. I was saying to myself, 'Boy, I'm in trouble here. This is not going very well.'
"After 11 or 12 minutes, the dynamic started to change. He was getting engaged and was 'there.'," Hussein sometimes leaned forward or rapped his finger on a table as he described the fate of past invaders in the Middle East. "He smiled some, not a lot."
Rather was surprised when Hussein challenged Bush to a debate, a gambit that was quickly dismissed by the White House. "I wasn't sure he was serious," the anchor explained. "I said to him, 'Mr. President, are you joking about this?' He said no, war is too serious to joke about."
Pressed further, Hussein dismissed the United Nations as a forum for the debate he wants. He said he would be in Baghdad and Bush in Washington, and suggested that Rather could moderate the televised face-off.
"I paused and said – I'm not proud of this – 'Mr. President, I have enough troubles already.' He chuckled at that."
The session was scheduled to last 35 to 40 minutes, but Hussein went on nearly three times as long. In one exchange at the round white table with microphones mounted in front of an Iraqi flag, Rather asked: "So you do not intend to destroy these missiles?"
"Which missiles? What do you mean?" said Hussein, who appeared animated and composed. "We have no missiles outside the specifications of the United Nations." He also said he is "ready to dialogue" with Bush out of "my respect for the American public opinion."
Afterward, Hussein spent more than an hour in his office with Rather, Murphy and two culture ministers.
When Hussein asked about American opinions of the war, Rather protested that he was just a reporter, "not a politician or academic or diplomat or soldier."
"Yes, yes," he recalled Hussein replying, "but you are also a citizen, and an experienced journalist."
Even in the satellite age, CBS faced some logistical obstacles. The Iraqis, as is their practice, handled the taping. They were to make a copy for the network after dubbing the translation of Hussein's remarks.
But the Iraqis did not turn over the duplicate tape in time for planned excerpts on CBS's "Early Show" yesterday. Once the videotape was provided, the satellite transmission to New York took nine hours. Then CBS had its own interpreter check the translation and, if necessary, record a new English translation for tonight's broadcast. Rather and Murphy also reviewed the tape to make sure that nothing was deleted.
As he drove toward Amman yesterday to catch a flight to Paris and the Concorde to New York, Rather said his close encounter with Hussein had done nothing to change his view that war appears near.
"It's fair to say he expects an attack unless something dramatic changes," Rather said.
The cover of the New York Daily News has Hussein's face in the cross hairs:
"U.S. forces have the green light to kill Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein if there is a war and they catch him in the cross hairs, the White House said yesterday."
More frustrating stop-and-go on the diplomatic front, as USA Today reports:
"The United States and its allies stepped up diplomacy yesterday in an uphill, two-week blitz aimed at winning the United Nations Security Council's endorsement for war against Iraq.
"But their prospects were clouded by a suggestion from Hans Blix, the chief U.N. weapons inspector, that Iraq is showing new signs of cooperation with teams that are searching for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.
"'There are some elements which are positive which need to be explored further,' Blix said. Those elements, he said, include Iraqi disclosure of documents dealing with the destruction of weapons in 1991, and word that two bombs had been discovered at a disposal site, one containing a liquid that appears to be a germ agent. 'This is cooperation on substance,' Blix said.
"If confirmed, the biological weapon would be the first revealed to the inspectors. Iraq has said it destroyed all such weapons."
In other words, Iraq was not exactly being truthful. What a shock.
I have compiled some news articles below regarding the interviews. I am interested to hear what you all think, especially after the interview(s) air.
----------------------
Rather's Saddam interview draws skeptics
By Jennifer Harper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
CBS newsman Dan Rather landed a three-hour interview with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein on Monday, revealing "Saddam's feelings on his own people, the American public, Osama bin Laden and what his own fate might be," according to CBS, which quickly went into showbiz mode.
"There are just two men in the world now who can prevent a new U.S.-led war in Iraq, and CBS news anchor Dan Rather sat down with one of them," CBS said yesterday.
But did the interview become a vehicle for Iraq's agenda in the process?
"We're aware of the CBS tape. We'll watch the tape, and we believe in freedom of the press," a State Department official said yesterday. "Will it be factual? We have to wait and see. Saddam has a track record of not being upfront."
Shortly after September 11, the White House and State Department became alarmed that Western journalists could be manipulated by media-savvy terrorists. At the time, White House adviser Condoleezza Rice suggested that broadcasters use careful judgment when airing material released by bin Laden.
Grumbling about First Amendment rights all the way, broadcasters complied for a time. But the climate has changed.
Since Monday, Mr. Rather's interview has been teased on CBS radio and television, with substantial portions to air tonight on "60 Minutes II." The interview was heralded as "one of the news coups of the year" by the Hollywood Reporter trade publication.
The newsman said it was all because of "hard work and luck," though an Associated Press report said Mr. Rather had the help of former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, now an anti-war activist who met with Saddam on Sunday.
Mr. Clark has his own agenda. In January, he drafted articles of impeachment against President Bush, Vice President Richard B. Cheney and other officials, who he says he believes must "answer to the people."
Meanwhile, Mr. Rather's interview is not as rare as it may seem: ABC's Peter Jennings and NBC's Tom Brokaw also tried to reach Saddam. All three were outfoxed by former British Labor leader and peace activist Tony Benn, who interviewed Saddam for Arab Television three weeks ago.
Mr. Benn described Saddam as "courteous and forthcoming."
Mr. Rather also used personal observations, calling Saddam "a tall man."
"He walked a little stiffly. I think that may be because of these reports he has a bad back. But he was very calm."
The Media Research Center took Mr. Rather to task yesterday for saying he had a startling scoop: Saddam had "challenged" President Bush to a televised debate. No such scoop, the center pointed out. Saddam had proposed the same thing in a 1990 interview with Mr. Rather.
The CBS "appetite for promotion is plugging up its nose for news," noted Tim Graham of the research center.
The interview may be a bona fide scoop for Mr. Rather and a legitimate promotional tool for CBS [yeah right!], said Robert Steele, a media ethics analyst for the Florida-based Poynter Institute, a journalism research group.
"What shouldn't happen, however, is to hold back meaningful news to benefit promotional strategies," Mr. Steele said yesterday.
And when short on meaningful news, some extrapolate.
ABC News issued a report yesterday on Saddam's troubled psychological background. Saddam's "difficult childhood leads to 'wounded self,' — a fragile personality who is very sensitive to perceived slights," ABC said.
MSNBC, in the meantime, is crafting a new wartime footing. The network fired prime-time host Phil Donahue yesterday because of poor ratings, replacing him with an expanded version of "Countdown: Iraq," with Lester Holt.
----------------
White House wants to reply to Saddam interview
2/26/2003 2:42 PM
By: Associated Press
(WHITE HOUSE) -- The White House is asking CBS News for a chance to reply to the Saddam Hussein interview that's airing Wednesday night.
Press Secretary Ari Fleischer says the administration views what the Iraqi dictator says in the interview as "propaganda and lies."
Fleischer says CBS anchor Dan Rather deserves congratulations for landing the interview (appearing on "60 Minutes Two"). But he says it's appropriate for the White House to have a response.
Fleischer says talks with CBS are continuing as to when a response might air, and who would give it.
The spokesman adds that journalists are likely to face "interesting and difficult" decisions as the Iraqi regime puts forward officials to tell its side of the story.
----------------------
Saddam Hussein, Reporter
After Exclusive CBS Interview, Iraqi Leader Quizzed Dan Rather
advertisement
_____OnPolitics_____
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 26, 2003; 8:17 AM
We'll get to our other news in a moment, but first, our top story (we've always liked the way that sounds):
When the cameras were turned off after more than an hour and a half, it was Saddam Hussein's turn to interview Dan Rather.
The Iraqi leader led the CBS anchor to the overstuffed leather chairs in his high-ceilinged Baghdad office and "had questions about American public opinion and President Bush," Rather recalled yesterday from the Jordanian desert. "I said, 'Mr. President, you asked me and I will try to answer you. A lot of these answers I don't think you're going to like.'
"There's always some discomfort in that kind of situation. I wasn't going to trim the answers to suit what I thought he wanted to hear. I told him American public opinion was behind President Bush.
"I think he said, 'Not as much as it was.'" Rather responded that "Americans like to debate and discuss things and vent" but were still backing Bush.
Hussein's first interview with an American journalist in 13 years – a coup for the 71-year-old Rather – could hardly have come under more dramatic circumstances, with the two nations poised on the brink of war. Not since Walter Cronkite brokered Anwar Sadat's 1977 visit to Jerusalem to begin Egyptian-Israeli peace talks has a television reporter played such a high-profile role in the Middle East.
Part of the Monday interview with Hussein aired on last night's "CBS Evening News," and "60 Minutes II" will carry substantial portions tonight.
Even before the tape could be edited and translated, Rather's summary of Hussein's responses – challenging Bush to a debate and refusing to destroy missiles that U.N. inspectors say must be scrapped – made global headlines.
Rather was mindful of the stakes. When he arrived in Baghdad, he said, "I went to my hotel room and started preparing lists of questions and tried to memorize an outline of the questions. I had 31 or 32 questions. I put them in three different orders. I practiced them. I sat in front of the mirror and pretended he was on the other side and tried out the questions."
As for how he got the interview, which was sought by a slew of other network anchors, Rather said: "I'm a reporter who got lucky. . . . You work hard, work your sources, make your contacts, not get discouraged, just keep coming."
It probably helped that Rather, along with Peter Jennings and Diane Sawyer, had interviewed Hussein in 1990. "At least I was a known quantity to them. . . . I thought in 1990 they wanted someone who had a reputation of being independent and had credibility. I came out of the 1990 interview feeling I had done what I said I would do."
Rather is apparently the first American to meet with Hussein since then-Rep. Bill Richardson (D-N.M.) visited the Iraqi leader in 1995 to win the release of two Americans imprisoned there.
After arriving in Baghdad – following a 10-hour drive from Amman – Rather and his executive producer, Jim Murphy, met with Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz in his office Sunday night. Rather, who has known Aziz since the 1980s, called him "the last gatekeeper," although he says Aziz cautioned him: "There may be no interview with anyone. I don't make the decision. The president makes the decision."
Why did Hussein agree? "I simply don't know," said Rather. "Among the ingredients, in no particular order: He knows the time draws nigh for an attack. He takes President Bush very seriously in saying that time is up. Secondly, he reads the papers and knows what his standing is with the American people. He probably felt – and I'm going pretty far afield here – he had something to lose, but under the present circumstances he might have had something to gain in getting to the American people who he is, what he is, what his position is."
Although Iraq could face a military assault by the United States and Britain within weeks, the atmosphere, Rather observed, was not particularly tense.
Hussein "was to all outward appearances calm. He was unhurried. He comes across as confident. He has what military people call command presence. Some may argue this was studied; I can only report what I saw, heard and felt in that room."
Unfortunately for Rather, the interview "got off to a slow start." He had to wait for one interpreter to translate his questions and a second interpreter to provide Hussein's answers.
"It's hard – I'm not complaining about it – to build a rhythm to the interview. I was saying to myself, 'Boy, I'm in trouble here. This is not going very well.'
"After 11 or 12 minutes, the dynamic started to change. He was getting engaged and was 'there.'," Hussein sometimes leaned forward or rapped his finger on a table as he described the fate of past invaders in the Middle East. "He smiled some, not a lot."
Rather was surprised when Hussein challenged Bush to a debate, a gambit that was quickly dismissed by the White House. "I wasn't sure he was serious," the anchor explained. "I said to him, 'Mr. President, are you joking about this?' He said no, war is too serious to joke about."
Pressed further, Hussein dismissed the United Nations as a forum for the debate he wants. He said he would be in Baghdad and Bush in Washington, and suggested that Rather could moderate the televised face-off.
"I paused and said – I'm not proud of this – 'Mr. President, I have enough troubles already.' He chuckled at that."
The session was scheduled to last 35 to 40 minutes, but Hussein went on nearly three times as long. In one exchange at the round white table with microphones mounted in front of an Iraqi flag, Rather asked: "So you do not intend to destroy these missiles?"
"Which missiles? What do you mean?" said Hussein, who appeared animated and composed. "We have no missiles outside the specifications of the United Nations." He also said he is "ready to dialogue" with Bush out of "my respect for the American public opinion."
Afterward, Hussein spent more than an hour in his office with Rather, Murphy and two culture ministers.
When Hussein asked about American opinions of the war, Rather protested that he was just a reporter, "not a politician or academic or diplomat or soldier."
"Yes, yes," he recalled Hussein replying, "but you are also a citizen, and an experienced journalist."
Even in the satellite age, CBS faced some logistical obstacles. The Iraqis, as is their practice, handled the taping. They were to make a copy for the network after dubbing the translation of Hussein's remarks.
But the Iraqis did not turn over the duplicate tape in time for planned excerpts on CBS's "Early Show" yesterday. Once the videotape was provided, the satellite transmission to New York took nine hours. Then CBS had its own interpreter check the translation and, if necessary, record a new English translation for tonight's broadcast. Rather and Murphy also reviewed the tape to make sure that nothing was deleted.
As he drove toward Amman yesterday to catch a flight to Paris and the Concorde to New York, Rather said his close encounter with Hussein had done nothing to change his view that war appears near.
"It's fair to say he expects an attack unless something dramatic changes," Rather said.
The cover of the New York Daily News has Hussein's face in the cross hairs:
"U.S. forces have the green light to kill Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein if there is a war and they catch him in the cross hairs, the White House said yesterday."
More frustrating stop-and-go on the diplomatic front, as USA Today reports:
"The United States and its allies stepped up diplomacy yesterday in an uphill, two-week blitz aimed at winning the United Nations Security Council's endorsement for war against Iraq.
"But their prospects were clouded by a suggestion from Hans Blix, the chief U.N. weapons inspector, that Iraq is showing new signs of cooperation with teams that are searching for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.
"'There are some elements which are positive which need to be explored further,' Blix said. Those elements, he said, include Iraqi disclosure of documents dealing with the destruction of weapons in 1991, and word that two bombs had been discovered at a disposal site, one containing a liquid that appears to be a germ agent. 'This is cooperation on substance,' Blix said.
"If confirmed, the biological weapon would be the first revealed to the inspectors. Iraq has said it destroyed all such weapons."
In other words, Iraq was not exactly being truthful. What a shock.
#125
Welcome to Astral Chat! / My latest article...
February 25, 2003, 14:00:06
I write for my school paper, if you're interested in reading about file-swapping, here's my latest work: (btw- please igore my grammar in this article, I rushed it!)
http://www.highlander.ucr.edu/article.php?artnum=1699
http://www.highlander.ucr.edu/article.php?artnum=1699