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With that much energy you guys are going to spontanously combust!!! [xx(]

Also remember that at the moment of death,the body looses some mass. So the from that you can argue that the spirit is energy. So it all kind of ties in.

Beavis makes a good point about present tense affirmations. They are incredibly powerful. Even during waking life they can make a difference. I read a book about self discipline that used this PRESENT TENSE affirmations as its cornerstone. In the astral they should be even more useful.

I believe true psycics can only see the MOST possible future because they (subconsciously or through guides) can only analyse present situations and give an educated guess of plausabilities. And the Lotto is a random event which can not be predicted.

Predicting the future requires knowledge of all possible factors in the present and how these "causes" will become future "effects". It probably is just of logical interpretation of huge amounts of data only available psycicaly. Like the time that my instinct told me not to get married. I did not listen and what a mistake that was!! My instinct probably analysed data my brain couldn't access and just gave me this conclusion. I could give many more examples of this instinct. But I'm lazy and don't want to type anymore. [|)] zzzzzz

Well my first full  OBE (2 days ago)into the RTZ was via a LD. I found myself lucid in my body, but it did not wake up, but it FELT awake. I did not try to OBE right away, I laid there and let myself settle then I shook myself out of my body and popped out. The key seems to be not to try too hard to project. While I settled down, I was think of projecting but didn't force it. When my mind began to drift is when the shaking began (like when a dog shakes itself dry) and I was out. It was kind of an automaticaly triggered event, as if I had programmed myself via selfhypnosis in the settling period after becoming lucid in my body.

I've been trying ROPE and other dynamic forms, and my body always wakes up. These seems to work for me. I will keep on trying.Should work while in trance as well as LD, in theory. I'll pursuit this avenue for a while.

Hope my recent experience helps y'all.[]

[FOR ME]

Jazzarati, You say:

quote:So that brings me to say that the goal of the current place we are in would be to acquire as much knowledge as we can instead of going off on mindless folly's. Some following this line of things would argue that knowledge to would be pointless, it's true really, everything is pointless so the best thing to do would be do what your heart most desires. In this pursuit of what we most desire we might find out a greater meaning or that there is life after death, but if we never attempt to get such knowledge we will never have it.

I agree that from our perspective the pursuit of knowledge for the sake of knowledge seems pointless. I have spent many hours thinking about that. But I belive that that pursuit is the only choice that seems to fulfill me spiritually and intelectually. So in my case, I agree with you. I do what I feel, and that is to learn. When I'm not investigating this spiritual side of mine on a regular basis, I feel unbalanced, like skipping a meal. Giving up this pursuit, no matter if there is an end result to it or not, is NOT AN OPTION FOR ME and my personal experience.

TAO:

Do not let anyone awnser those questions for you. Seek the awnsers within. Yes, read, listen to others, and ask questions. But their awnsers should not be more than guidelines for your self exploration. Seek your own opinions. Don't let others give them to you.

travelinbob

I did obe from a LD last night. First (and second) time actually I've had a controlled full obe. I kept them short since they were my firsts.

I had a dream in which a kiss became something like a psichic attack. So I disrupted my energy flow in a self defence move and the entity went away but it left me lucid in the dream. I then layed there (in my physical body) thinking of how I had defended myself. Than I began to shake myself out of my body and peeked out the closed window. Than I layed back down and tried to wake myself quickly in order to remember. This made me pop out again so I did a reality check to see if I was awake. I tapped on the reading light. It felt solid but did not turn on. So I checked my alarm clock to see if there had been a power out. Could not see it on. So I floated towards the door and saw the light coming from under the door. So there had not been any power outage. So I decided to pop back in, but first I looked at my body and threre it was in the bed under the covers. Popped in and woke up.

I went to check if the lights outside my door were on and they were. So I'm pretty sure it was an OBE and not a LD. It felt real enough a little hazy. I did move real slow, though.

The only two "inconsitencies" with this being an OBE is the solid lamp and I could not see the numbers on the clock.

What do you all think: OBE or LD?

Hey Jonas,

I believe if you put aside a few minutes a day aside for raising energy and fill your free time with these excercises it should be enough. There is no need to do it full time, 24/7. Remember to balance it with the rest of your life. Its like going to the gym to work out, as long as you are doing something you will improve. Like physical excersise, a little goes a long way. Slow and constant progress is best, I think. You don't want to pull a muscle.

I try to do my energy raising while watching TV or waiting around, since after a while it becomes almost automatic. Plus a little before I go to sleep or while meditating. It makes you feel good, almost like having a double esspreso with chocolate. [] Yummy!

He he he, Nay made a funny! [] Glad to see I'm not the only one with a dirty mind. Seriously though.

Pmlonline makes a good point that sex is just for the physical. It has one function, but its effects do permeate into the rest of our being. If you do not balance your energies, impulses, etc, they will become a burden. So as long as we are in the physical, we will have to deal with the sex thing one way or another. If you deny something that is there, it only becomes the proverbial elephant in the room nobody talks about. But it's still there. It does not go away that easily. If you fight it you might loose more energy fighting it than just dealing with it.

Well. That's all I have to say. Got to get back to downloading porn! [] Just Kidding. I'm not as perverted as my sense of humor, Nay. Its not like I would go Astral to create a girl with big breasteseses. [:I] Don't write to protest, I'm already sorry typed this.

I'm working hard to get my astral vision just in case I go blind. []

Sorry I couldn't resist.

Adept_of_Light:

Your challenge is so out of place!!! Challenging my beliefs is AT THE CORE of my philosophy. Remember that I believe in a pursuit of knowledge. By defenition, it requires me to test my beliefs constantly to see if they hold up. That is why I left christianity and its anthropomorphic view of "God" 15 years ago in the first place. It just did not hold water for me. The idea of omniscience is not compatible with my experience. The evil in the world negates it. If God knows all then why does he/she allow bad things to happen. He should know how to avoid them then. Or does she not have the power to stop them? If he knows all and can change them and does not, then he is cruel because he could teach us in another more compassionate way.  You see, it does not add up. My guess is that the evil in the world are mistakes God made while trying to learn.

Judeo Christianity bases its whole core in a book. You have to have faith (i.e. blindly assume) that it is God's word. If you challenge (to use your own word) this, it all kind of crumbles into dogma, mythology and self-fulfilling prophecy (there is going to be war in the middle east, Gee what a surprise!!!!). And since cristianity's weight lies in a blind asumption in one particular book, then all other philosophies have equal validity, if faith is at issue.

With respect to the inherited knowledge, the theory of the Akashic records seems to support it. Of course, I will challenge this theory so I can get the knowledge I look for. If it holds up, fine. If it does not, then I will dispose of it as I have done with others.

Know, I respect christianity, because it fulfills other people's needs. But it just does not work for me. This is my opinion and it works for me until I learn of a better one. That what's it all about.

[Balance = Strength = Growth]

Personally, I masturbate before I meditate. I find it takes more energy to repress my libido than it does to relieve it. I also believe in living a balanced life. If I repress one part of me, then it becomes a burden on the rest of my being. There is more strength in balance than in obsessing on just one side of life. In my opinion: Balance = Strength = Growth.

I believe our purpose is the pursuit of knowledge so we can contribute new experiences to the universal consciousness (or God if you will) in order for it/him/her/us to understand itself why it/him/her/us came into existance. In other words a neverending pursuit of knowledge to get back into the balance that was lost through creation/the big bang.

Just an idea.

[From Van K. Tharp's Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom. Page 8, McGraw Hill, 1998.]

An interesting quote:

"Life starts out in the neutral position between profits and losses- it neither fears losses nor desires profits. Life just is, and that's represented by the Grail. However, as a human being develops self-awareness, fear and greed arise. But when you get rid of greed (and the fear that comes from lacking), you reach a special unity with all. And that's where great traders and investors emerge."

From Van K. Tharp's Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom. Page 8, McGraw Hill, 1998.

Money, Guns, Drugs, Cars, etc are just tools. There value depends on how they are used. They can all be used with good intentions and for noble purposes. So it all depends on intent.

Balance is the key. Neither greed nor indiference are good. So go ahead and make money, as long as you give EQUAL IMPORTANCE to your spirituality, health, intelect and emotions. And do all of them with good intentions and ethics.

My world view is a derivative of pantheism. I believe that God him/herself is the universe. This deity is a colective, iminent, and all encompasing entity. We are part of it, and our existence is for the purpose of self exploration of the whole. For the purpose of comparison, my world view differs from theism in its view of morality and of God's actual involvement with us. But in escence, I do not believe my views of the world are that different from theistic ones.

In the morality part: I believe that spirituality yields morality and not the other way around like some interpretations of theism, in which they believe that doing some things and not doing others will make people spiritual. Moral behavior is a conscequence of spirituality, not its cause.

And with respect of God´s involvemet with us, I believe that it is even closer to us than theism allows, since we are part of God, and not just his/her creations.

But these are just differences in form, but not of esscence. I also do not belive that any other view of the world is better or worse than mine. It is just the one that is right for my life experience.

I ve shared this story in this forum before but I will again and I'd like to hear Mayatnik's opinion.:

I had a "dream" 2 years ago in which I was contacted by aliens. They told me that they were in contact with a certain well known mystical society, and had been for a while. And that that was there big secret. Then they woke me up with a strong vibration all over my body. (The obe vibes) I was startled but did not say anything. 2 days later a mass sighting of a UFO was seen in my city complete with photos in the front page of the newspapers. And also around that time a series of interviews with UFO contactee Sixto Paz from Peru began to show up on the sunday´paper for 3 weeks in a row. This "coincidence" has led me to believe that this might have been a real contact.

I have not heard anything since then. I which I had.

[THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. IF I OFFEND, I APOLOGIZE. I HOPE I DO NOT GET HATE MAIL LIKE I DID LAST TIME FROM OVERZELOUS CHRISTIANS. WANT TO DISCUSS IT, FINE. I WILL IGNORE ANY HATE MAIL, INTOLERANCE AND GRATUTITOUS PROFANITY.]

Hey Tyler

I used to have the same anger you show with respect to these matters. It made me so angry I became an athiest for some time. Then I started alternate approaches to spíritual growth. I shed my belief in the anthropomorphic image of the devine and its obssesion with good and evil. (Spirituality yields morality and not the other way around) I came to the "conclusion" that the horrible things you talked about happen in our universe not because there is an infalable plan, but that the universal consciousness (God, if you will) is learning and making mistakes. This universal consciousness, of which we are a part of, is learning by making mistakes, as horrible as they are.

The way we can help it/us is by following our path and learning as much as we can so that when we "die" we can make a valuable contribution to the Akashik records, so that our collective knowledge eventually reduces these horrible mistakes. The universe is not omniscient. We are part of it, and therefore a reflection of the whole. It is just as cuorious as us and it learns and make mistakes. What we see as evil, at a higher level it maybe viewed as a failed experiment gone wildly out of control. My guess is that as the universe learns more these horrible mistakes will happen less and less. What is the universe trying to learn? I have no idea, nor do I think I could. My best guess: self-discovery, just like us.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. IF I OFFEND, I APOLOGIZE. I HOPE I DO NOT GET HATE MAIL LIKE I DID LAST TIME FROM OVERZELOUS CHRISTIANS. WANT TO DISCUSS IT, FINE. I WILL IGNORE ANY HATE MAIL, INTOLERANCE AND GRATUTITOUS PROFANITY.

To induce look at the room before you start doing your work. Then go into trance and try to visualize what you remember. It works better after stimulating your brow chakra. After stimulating this chakra the sight goes from black to gray. Then do the visual recall.

This is not perfect. It works marginally. SO I'll monitor this thread for better ideas. I'm also looking forward to profecient astral sight.

[very intense]

Travelinbob Reporting:

I have been using the method suggested by Omega for a few days now. And it is the best easiest method for getting in trance I have found. But it has not help me OBE. If I do ROPE my muscles still tense up and kick me out of trance. I guess I need to work more on fully relaxing or paralysing my body. Any suggestions?

I have noticed that it also activates the energy cicuits real quick because of the shifting body awareness involved. I get very intense "cobwebs" on my nose. Almost painful. The NEW work is also improved after this trance-induction technique. Although I still have not gotten my astral sight. Working on that too. Any suggestions.

Thanx

I havent had an AP yet. But I believe that since these events are as natural as our physical existance, you have to judge people and guides in the astral the same way one judge people and their intentions in the physical. I personally believe that when a person is very pushy about their views then they are not to be trusted fully, if at all. When I meet a guide, I will apply the same judgement on them. Common sence rules in the physical and in the astral, I think.

I personally do not believe in using the term "supernatural" with respect to all the experiences discussed in this website. I do not believe that they are "special". I believe that going astral or OBE are just un unexplored side of our nature. Perhaps a lost or dormant ability in all of us. And therefore, All that is encountered in them should be treated the same way as we already do in the physical. Common sense and good intentions will get you far in all planes of existance. Just like there are good and bad people in the physical, so are there in the other planes of reality. Its up to each of us to judge for ourselves who is nauhgty and who is nice. Just my opinion.

TB reporting:

I did it this morning and it got me into a very comftrable, solid and stable trance very quickly and smoothly. Better than the falling imagery suggested by RB in AD. (I would qualify it as a self-hypnosis like technique.) Did not go any further than that, though. No vibes or anything. I will try it again tonight and put more intent into it. Any suggestions on how to procede?

One question, Omega: You claim one does not need an exit technique. DOes this mean you just pop out after a while? Please elaborate.

May I propose an experiment for testing this matter. (I use the pendulum and I like to test it once in a while just to make sure I am not fooling myself.)

The experiment is as follows:

Take two pitchers of water. In one dissolve some sugar. In the other dissolve some salt. Take a some glasses and fill half with the salt water and half with the sweet water.

Arrange at random in front of you. (Preferably have someone help you arrange them so you can not know which is which).

Use the pendulum to determine,one at a time, which is salt water and which is sugar water. Take one glass from the bunch and ask the pendulum to give you a yes if it is salt water. (Or a yes if it is sugared water, makes no difference). Taste the water and record if the penulum is right. Do with all glasses. And determine percentage of right awnsers. And share the results.

SOunds good. I'll try it and report. I have been having trouble with rope cause it requires quasi physical action and tenses my body slightly and kills the vibes.

David Blaine is a VERY GOOD illusionist and mentalist. He does old tricks in new and exciting ways. I have no idea how he does it, although RoyHarper is right on the perspective thing of the levitation. And some of the coin tricks he uses I've seen a friend do as well. Then again everyone knows how to moonwalk, but only Michael Jackson does it well. I enjoy watching David Blaine specials cause he makes it look so real that it can make a sceptics doubt.