Messages

Mactombs, I agree with you in this one.

At RB's workshop in 2004 a group of us were just fooling around one evening, trying to see auras. I focused in on our "target" and instead of seeing the aura I saw a pale purple cone of energy with swirling sparkles in it coming from the target's forehead. That was my first exposure to chakras (at least that's what folks said it was when I described it.) My belief had nothing to do with what I saw, because that was the farthest thiing from my mind at the time.

I do think that your belief and your will can influence physical objects, if both are strong enough. If you have perfect confidence in your ability to put your hand through a solid wall while operating in the physical everyday world, then you could do it. It would just be a matter of rearranging the molecular orbits of your hand and the wall. But let's just say I am a far cry away from that perfect confidence!  

Bloodsong, Great post! I agree with what you have written 100%!

I am firmly convinced that OBE's, in the sense we commonly discuss, are actually travels within our own minds. I have had one true OBE where, while fully awake and in the "normal" world, I was suddenly outside my body looking at me. It ended as I realized what was going on. I don't know how I did it and have not been able to repeat it.

On hypnosis, in my experience, it is a method of focused relaxation and mind clearing. You can do it yourself or allow someone else to talk you through it. In recent years I have become extremely leery of letting someone else hypnotise me. In general it seems to be more effective than most passive meditations I have tried.

Peaceful Warrior, Quantum Physics hasn't disproved Newtonian physics, but only attempted to explain, as Bloodsong already said, that things work differently on the level of the very small. The laws of conservation of matter and energy are still very much alive and well.

An interesting tidbit on E=MC2: The speed of light is actually not constant, except in a vacuum. Physicists have been able to slow light down to a virtual stop, causing items on which it is focused to disappear. (I assume they still exist in the physical, but the article I read didn't addres that one.) Those scientists theorize this ability may lead to working time machines at some point. Weird, huh?!

PirateBob, for me, whether spirits actually exist is still up for grabs. If there is a "real" God, with angels and such, then there is every reason to believe a myriad of other spirits also exist. However, if the "energy sea" (I have explained this in other posts) is just a physical manifestion of natural law, then there is no reason to believe in "real" spirits. In that event, they would be just manifestations of our own desires.

For my two cents worth, it is very possible you had a genuine OBE but just remember it on a dream level. Here's an example: I was sleeping at a family reunion and an uncle (with a sense of humor   ) tried the old "tickle the nose with a feather) to see if it would wake me. I dreamed there was this gigantic mosquito buzzing around my face and kept trying to swat it away. When I woke up I discovered the uncle "bugging" me.  

Your dreams can reflect what is actually happening in the physical. They can also allow you to recall what is happening in the non-physical. Both experiences are equally genuine.

By the way, and just for grins, my definition of "Real" is the everyday physical environment that we normally inhabit. However, I find myself using it to describe non-phisical events that are just as genuine, only not on the physical plane. We have to function in the "real" world, but that doesn't mean our experiences in the non-physical are not equally real (oops, genuine).

Selski,
As usual, good post and good advice!  

I am going to have to put an "except for" to my opinion on drugs (at least those given by doctors). I just read a post where someone is gaining some positive benefits from medication and in that case I can't argue with success. He also had an idea of how to control his hallucinations -- and he knew they were hallucinations.

The problem comes when you can't tell what is real and what is not.

Steve, what you are seeing may be nothing but visual effects when your eyes start to get tired, but then again, maybe not. I wonder if it might be wise to set some wards around your house (mental wards) and maybe mist some saltwater around the place and see if it makes a difference.

Devine (and others), I just don't see the point to experimenting with drugs that you know will change the way your brain processes information. Isn't it hard enough getting where we want to be without muddying the waters even more?

I feel the same way about the anti-depressive medications doctors prescribe. Medicos have no real understanding of how the brain works, or what thoughts are, but are still tinkering with it. Sheeeesh!

If you are serious about meditating and OBE, astral, or anything else mental, then I would think you would make every effort to avoid anything that messes with the ingrams (so to speak).  

First I have to back up a bit and say to Beth, Well Done!! Your first post on this topic was great and covered the ground better than I could.  

Gandalf, you are right on point in your comment about those who pick on certain religions -- or faiths in general. They all have good and bad to them. As to the capitalization issue, it is just grammatically correct to do so, at least in the US. Granted, there are differences in the rules depending on where you are. The European vs. American spelling rules frequently trip me up!  

Magicmac2000, perhaps what you are looking for is similar to what I experienced on a visit to Muir Woods. I have written about it before and won't go into detail here, but that was a feeling beyond anything I have ever experienced. That, and a few other events like it, is primarly why I am working on meditation and such -- I want to know what causes it! Hang in there and take it as it comes.

Can't tell you if it was a lucid dream or OBE (in my mind they are virtually the same).  Whichever it was, enjoy the experience and use it as motivation to keep practicing. It sounds like a pretty neat experience to me!  

Andrew, I think I know what you are saying about previous peoples and the fact that the land was able to remain the same; but remember there were a lot fewer of them "back when." Nature is very resilient and has a remarkable ability to heal. It's just that now there are so many humans that we may be overwhelming that recovery ability.

I think sometimes we tend to put those early humans on a pedestal they don't necessarily deserve. They were just as oblivious to the harm they did to nature as we are today -- but as I said, there were fewer of them! I think it's Easter Island or Iceland (or maybe both) that used to be covered in forests, and mammoths roamed there. The natives cleared and killed all the trees and mammothes, then fell into civil war because they didn't have enough to eat! Human beings have always been the same, some good, some bad. The thing to do is focus on the fact that we, now, know better, and can do our best to make a difference for the future.

Tombo, in keeping with the above, you may be able to talk to the caretaker of that forest about leaving some dead or dying trees standing. They are crucial habitat to many animal species in this country, and I imagine the same is true where you live.

A funny thing happened last night. After reading your post I wondered what a Beech tree looked like. Then, while watching "This Old House" on PBS, they had several segments about Beech trees -- go figure!   So, my question was answered. They also said the limbs of Beech trees reach down to the ground and take root, becoming new trees. So your old friend may well have some kiddos in the neighborhood.  

Tombo,
I can totally sympathize!  

I am convinced that humans are doing their very best to destroy our world -- perhaps not realizing it's the only one they have!  

I would strongly suggest that you go and get something from that tree to keep: a few pieces of bark, some of the root system, some leaves, whatever strikes you. If you had an affinity for it then it could be a valuable "totem," for lack of a better word. You might consider getting a piece of wood that could be made into a necklace and other pieces just to keep in your room.

Mindfreak,
I tried your technique for just a few minutes yesterday (all the time I had at the moment) and the results were quite interesting. I began "seeing things" almost immediately, first a human eye that filled almost my entire viewing area. This was feminine with long eyelashes -- very pretty lady! Then it morphed into the same Mountain Lion face that I have seen in other forms of meditation. As usual, this "kitty" didn't say or do anything, but was just there, looking at me. I had to break off the meditation at that point.

Stookie,
I know what you mean about realizing what just happened. That's happened to me on more than one occasion and makes me more than ever determined to at least get into lucid dreaming!

Salem, huh? I can only say in that day and time I would do my level best to stay under the radar -- those folks were not nice! OF course, some people are hesitant to acknowledge their interests even today. We have a lady here at work that is Wiccan if ever I have known one, but she keeps a very low profile.  That sure stops some interesting conversations. Sigh...

What I look for in the Bible is similarity to other writings. For instance, the New Testament says that while we are in this life we will see as through a dark glass but in the next life we will clearly understand. That concept is carried over in Buddhist, Wiccan, and New Age philosophy, and maybe others. It's apparently saying we "can't handle the truth" (couldn't resist) now, but at some point we will be granted enlightenment.

I could add more but it would be off topic.

As relates to this topic, I think is is quite valuable to be as well read as we can so that we can have reasonably intelligent discussions on this type of subject when it comes up.

This is another great topic -- Thanks!!

Selski, are you sitting up or lying down during your meditations? And at some point do you stop imagining and begin actually seeing the images you describe? Or rather, does the meditation begin a life of its own or are you guiding it?

I have not tried controlling the images, but think I will next time, just to see what happens. With me, it's a matter of disconnect scenes rather than a flow of events. They are separated by random images or pictures.

The ones I am most interested in are when I find myself in a group of animals (wolves once and horses a few times). Those animals initially ignored me but have begun to acknowledge my presence and even interact in small ways -- a nod, a smile, just an indication that I am not unwelcome.

EoL, this is an excellent post and thank you for sharing!!  

MM2000, you are far from alone, as I guess you are discovering here. I have not reached the point where I am ready to say I am "officially" anything at this point, other than an inquiring mind.

As to evolution, "Natural Selection" is an absolutely proven fact and we can see it in action every day of the week. That is how you get Chihuahuas and Great Danes from wolves; or how you get a species of crab with lines like a human face on it. However, "Evolution," meaning sudden mutation from one species to an entirely different species, is unproven, though there are some studies that show it might happen.

Evolutionary Theory is just a box scientists throw things in that they do not yet fully understand. It has no bearing on whether God exists. We know the cosmos works because of physical rules -- that's just one more of those very natural rules. There was a time when people believed that God could not exist unless the Sun revolved arond the Earth. Welll, most folks got over that opinion eventually. Don't let people mess with your mind on the subject.

I've posted before on my "Energy Sea" theory. To me, if God exists, he/she/it is likely that energy; unless that energy turns out to be just another natural rule, in which case, "God" is still hiding!  

J.K., you and I are pretty much in agreement on the true nature of God. If, however, you are saying there is no such thing as good and evil, then we will have to respectfully disagree. If there is absolutely no God, and death is the end of everything, there is still good and evil. There would simply be no higher power to slap someone's wrist if they made the wrong choices.

Okay, one more thing:

Bvp663, you make a very good point! The over-riding message to most religions is very similar, in spite of human efforts to split it up!

Also to Stookie: you said your mom was against meditation because clearing your mind removed Christ. Many Bible passages instruct folks to "seek the still small places" where they can experience God. In many places it encourages people to go apart and "be still," so as to hear God. I think your mom is missing an opportunity to experience some wonderful things!

Someone else likely knows "chapter and verse" on some of these -- come on in and share, please!

Tvos,

As usual, you come up with very interesting posts!

As to reading the Bible, I would recommend you read just the New Testament. or at least read Revelations -- very interesting even if impossible to decipher!  

I know a lot of people go the the Old Testament to show instances of people talking to God, visions, etc. But the New Testament is also full of anecdotes about exactly the same thing.

If memory serves though, nearly all of them could be seen as dream visions or, at most, lucid dreams. I guess Revelations would have the most valid example because I seem to recall it says that John was being taken from one scene to another. That would seem to be evidence that his experiences were "astral."

By the way, I agree totally with the priest when he says you can receive communications in your dreams. A lot of them are "fluff," but some are definitely much more than that. The trick is figuring out the difference!  

Ivanda,

This is philosophical advice at best, but here's my take. Your fear of ceasing to exist (death) is probably the number one fear experienced by humans, so you are far from alone.

I guess I'm a bit strange because, to my knowledge, I have no fear of death. I think one of the reasons I feel this way is a mental game I play: "What's the worst thing that can happen?"

Death (or ceasing to exist) is very much like sleeping or going under anesthesia. When anesthetized, you have no sense of time, or dreams, or consciousness -- nothing. So I think, "Okay, if I died, what's the worst thing that could happen? Say it is that there is nothing after death, no reincarnation, no "heaven" or "hell," just blackness. So, #1, if it happened I wouldn't be aware of it, so no need to fear; and #2, I have been asleep and under anesthesia, and there's nothing to fear there, so no need to fear this scenario."

If there is a "Heaven" and I die and wind up there, "what's the worst thing that could happen?" It is supposed to be a place of eternal happiness where I would see the face of God. Certainly nothing to fear there, so bring it on!

If there is a "Hell" and I die and go there, "what's the worst thing that could happen?" Well, there is no denying it would not be a pleasant experience! But if I am going to go there, I cannot change the situation, so there is no reason to fear it -- might as well be now as later.

If the reincarnation theories are right and death will bring another life, "what's the worst thing that could happen?" In this case I would actually look forward to death -- a chance to start again and maybe get things right this time. It would bring new adventures and certainly nothing to fear.

I guess I have thought this way for so long that my psyche, unconscious (pick your term) shares my philosophy, so fear is not a problem in this particular arena. However, I still experience intense awe, amazement, curiosity and such, which have all been more than sufficient to send my zipping back into my body!    SO even if you overcome the fear, you may not be home free!    

Don't know if this helps at all, but thought I would share.

Moogle_assassin,

I have nothing against Christianity, though some on this forum do. I have noticed that the "cult" of Christian-bashing seems to have become almost a religion itself. If you don't share their beliefs you are open to attack; the flip side of the same coin they complain about. Go figure.  

AMM,

My birthday is on Halloween, or All Saints Eve, I guess.  When I was a kid I used to think it was pretty neat that all those people I didn't even know were helping celebrate my birthday -- pretty good self-image back then!  

Tisha,

Welcome back! You have had some solid, worthwhile thoughts to contribute in the past and I am looking forward to seeing your philosphy back on the forum.  

Don't worry Giselle, I'm right on your coat-tails!    I will soon be 58 (on Halloween, thank you very much).  

I do firmly believe our age influences both the character of our OBE experiences and the interpretations we put on them. But another huge influence are the life experiences we have gone through.

I don't know that my life has changed because of OBE, but my perceptions and belief system may have. As I explore more and, hopefully, learn more about AP, OBE and things astral, it becomes more clear to me that we aren't necessarily exploring a spiritual "higher plain" at all. We are simply practicing the use of totally natural physical and mental abilities that we all possess.

I'm still looking for a spiritual connection, partly from habit I guess, and partly because, like most humans, I am reluctant to fully accept that this physical life is all there is.

Oilfield Pilot has done some pretty intense work in Lucid Dreaming. I think that ties right in to OBE and AP. It's all pretty much the same thing, just different semantics.

Hi Soul,

I think we have a lot more in common than areas of difference. It just seems you are still wearing the rose-colored glasses that I took off some years ago. I also think you do not understand what I am trying to say.

I am well aware of what humans are doing to the world environment (global warming is not part of it). But you sound like one of those who is less concerned about the environment than in US-bashing. Is there no way to reach past that blind prejudice and get to the real heart of the "survival" problem?!

I didn't use the term "their best" in my post -- I just said that everyone is trying to survive.  You say:

in the US a good portion of that 99% are mindless mass-consuming pigs that play a huge role in devastating your so-called "great outdoors."

I don't disagree.

Let's see if I can find a few other instances where the same thing is happening: Russia, where they are making no effort to avoid mass pollutiotn of soil, water and air in their industrial development efforts; Japan and Mexico where people have to wear masks outside to keep from being poisoned by the air they have polluted; Africa, where dumping toxic metals into the water supply is just how it's done, to name a very few. One more example is the systematic destruction of the world's rain forests (Africa, South America, etc.)

My point is that all of those people, all of them,  are are "mindless, mass-consuming pigs" as much so as the group you are choosing to focus on.

And another point; until you, and other folks who claim to love the natural world, can get around your irrational hatred of one place and begin to think outside that box you mentioned, there is nothing that will stop the ultimate destruction of our natural world.

I totally agree with your ideas about solar panels, vegetable gardens and hybrid cars. I have been ranting about the energy companies' control of environmental policy for quite a few years now. I can't support your idea of everyone hunting for survival because, if they did, we would have no game left to hunt. We are already depleting our ocean fisheries due to overharvesting (primarily by countries like Japan, by the way).

I am very much aware of what's going on around me. And I'll ask you a question. Can you sit down for just a moment, put aside your political programming (and yes, I have mine as well), and look at the big picture? It is not the US that is "the enemy," it is people -- wherever, whoever, period. And yes, they are doing what they do for survival.

I am only touching the high points of what I would like to add here, but I don't think anyone would appreciate me writing a novel.  

I applaud the fact that you seem to care; I disagree with the limitations you have placed on your caring.

You eat what you know, and what you must. There are likely many people who say, "I would never eat - (fill in the blank)." My answer to all of them would be, "Then you have never been hungry."

Speaking of horses, and Breatharians, what they are selling is a load of horse-hockey. Our bodies require food and water for physical survival. Yes, if you have adequate water, you can live for a long time without food, but you will die. I will buy into their philosophy on the same day they can drive their fist through a steel bank vault without bruising their skin; or the day a 747 can cut off its engines at 10,000 feet and continue flying with no problems.

Souljah, you said:

it's sad that people should be starving "to death", but my personal perspective has always tended to place those so-called "third world" cultures & it's people above whatever the hell we're doing as "civilized" people.

Words fail me. Those "third-worlders" you have on your pedestal are doing the same thing your "civilized people" are doing -- trying to survive. Do you think for even a half-second that 99.9% of them wouldn't trade their "simple, uncomplicated" lives for regular meals, good medical care, and a solid roof over their head?

A point you might have missed -- "third worlders" (your term) are no more or less spiritual than anyone else. They are human, with all the baggage that implies!

James, as usual, you have made a better point than I could.