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Well i need to reply to this topic... I just can not be here and sit quiet.

I have an opinion about this and i want to share it with you. So i am writing this post.

I have the freedom to tell anything here. But why am i here? I am here to exchange knowledge. I am here to share my experiences and learn more about them. I am here to learn more and more things in order to improve my skills.

The zeta talks does not bother me. I am not interested. I dont believe them. But i had never replied to that discussion. Thats not what i am after... thats all...

Anybody may have experiences to share here. But can you tell me are they real or not. No one else but the author of the post can tell. Of course there may be liers... But who cares about them...

I dont need to accuse anybody. If i dont believe it. I am not interested. Thats all about it.

I am not here for the people. I am here for the knowledge i can get.

As long as there is knowledge in this forums, you will see me here.

I dont want no fight around me.

Enough said,
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I mean for relaxation lie down on your side. When you are relaxed enough. Lie flat again and try the obe.

HTH
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Hi Lunatic,

Can you please try to describe us how you feel while OBE. I mean the state of mind. Sounds and eyesight. Smells. Gravity...

Regards,
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Dear Tisha,

Thanks for sharing your experiences and ideas. I want to share my experiences so far in order to help the newcomers, too.

It seems that we both are using the similar methods to induce obes. So here are my experiences and advices to the newcomers.

First of all i have to tell you that you must be familiar with your astral senses. Why?

You may have read over here and over there about when you OBE once that you can OBE further. In my opinion thats because having the experience of OBE gives you an idea of what it is all about and what to expect. And the most important point here is that it gives you the feeling of it.

People are reading about methods, techniques, experiences and when they think they had enough info about it and they start trying for it. They are concentrating on the methods, visualizations and sensetions so much that they cant get to a really relaxed state.

Personally i experienced these myself when first trying to learn these. I was trying to pull the rope so much that after the trial i felt ill. My neck was hurt and aching. I was forcing myself so hard!!! Then i realized that the relaxation is the key point here. Believe me relaxation is the most important thing.

So i began trying to understand the sleeping process of the human body. Every night when i went to bed i tried to watch myself fall asleep. And in the morning when i wake up i wrote those down. By this way i realized something. When i come to the borderland of falling asleep, i felt myself heavier and felt like my thinking process was changing somehow. (Maybe thats because of the brain wave changes...)

Now this is important: While sleeping i wasnt thinking as the way i do while i am awake.

So i continued my research on the changes of my sensations when i fall asleep.

I realized a high pitched ringing sound in my ears when i wake up in the morning. I dont know if this is happening to everyone but it happens to me. So i decided to focus on my ears when i am going to sleep. On that night i realized that after a short time of relaxation i was starting to hear the same sound in my ears. (Later i learned that this ringing sound gets louder and louder when the vibrations hit.)

Then i tried to understand the seeing sensation. So when i was going to sleep i tried to look physically behind my eyelids. I saw a million tiny flashing and moving lights. Slowly the lights faded away and some images start to appear in front of me. Then i opened my eyes and closed them again, the flashing tiny lights were still there. So i figured out that seeing was different too.

There is one more thing i have to tell you. It is about visualization. Visualizing things is different than seeing things. You can try it for yourself. Close your eyes and look behind your eyelids. Watch the tiny flashing lights. Do not visualize anything. Relax. You will start to see some images appearing. Now this is not visualization. After seeing those images try to visualize something. You will understand what i mean.

What i figured out from all these was: DONT EXPECT ANYTHING TO HAPPEN BEFORE YOU UNDERSTAND HOW IT FEELS. TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE FEELINGS OF YOUR ASTRAL SENSES. THIS REALLY HELPS TRUST ME!

Dont ask yourself questions like "is this it?", "am i projecting now?", "am i doing it right?"... YOU WILL KNOW WHEN YOU PROJECT SO DONT TRY TO IDENTIFY ANY SENSATION.

DONT READ OTHERS' EXPERIENCES TOO MUCH. Why? Because OBE is hard to describe. The more you read the more you will imagine how it feels. And that does not help for sure. For example try to describe the seeing sensation to a blind person. You will realize how hard it is.

Also while trying to project dont try to feel your physical body. TRYING TO FEEL YOUR PHYSICAL BODY PREVENTS YOU FROM GETTING INTO THE VIBRATIONAL STATE.

Here is an example how i spoiled it once:

With this idea one morning i laid on my bed and started breath meditation. I was counting my exhales. When i reach ten i was starting from one. After a while i started to see some images. So i started to try to think as i am asleep. I realized that i was moving deeper into trance. My breath slowed down. I was hardly hearing my breath. I was continuing counting but i wasnt saying "one","two" instead i was seeing an image of 1, 2, then 3... I wasnt visualizing them. But i was just seeing them... My conciousnes was silent at that time and i was just watching the numbers. The numbers changed shape and became 3D after a while. Then i found myself watching a dream. I was lucid in a dream. So i said DEEPER to my self. I wanted to alter my state of conciousness. Then i felt i was being sucked. Vibrations were all around me. I was hearing nonsence sounds and they were getting louder and louder. I tried to feel my physical body. And i just spoiled it. I got up and wrote the whole experience down.

Well thats all for now. Hope this helps.
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Maybe they got tired of having over 1000 posts and maybe they gathered themselves new nicknames...
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If you dont want to forget something: Write it down... While writing also say what you are writing. This helps remembering it...

For concentration breath meditation is essential...
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Try to get a sleeping position. How do you lay down when you sleep? This may help.
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Thanks for the link. Interesting article...
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Hi mustang,

After you confront the unknown a hundred times, it's no longer as frightening.

Keep trying...

Good Luck,
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quote:Hey Birm, your triangle method seems interesting and I just had a few questions before I try it:

Hi There,
The main idea is to focus on your astral senses as i mentioned before...
In order to project you have to study both theory and practice at the same time.

So my theory is as follows : Focusing on the astral senses while staying concious moves your conciousness to your astral couple. If you can focus on your astral body enough the seperation process happens automatically.

To practice this theory; i laid down to my bed and started projecting. I tried to understand my senses while projecting. I was hearing the ringing sound, i was seeing with my third eye.

So i decided to try to feel my astral body while i am wide awake. As i was experimenting this, i didnt close my eyes. I looked straight at a point on the wall and tried to visualize things. I could successfully visualize. So i decided to try the hearing sensation. But from wide awake you just cant hear with your astral ears as the physical sounds distract your attention. So i closed my ears with my palms for a while and i realized the ringing sound in my ears.

So i decided to focus on my astral senses from wide awake state. I focused on my third eye, focused on my astral ears and i just felt disoriented and dizzy. I felt like i was in my physical body but i was controlling my astral couple. It is a very confusing feeling to have two bodies and two seperate body senses at the same time.

So i came to a conclusion that as we project; our physical senses goes to minimum and astral senses are at maximum rate. And when we are awake our astral senses are at minimum and physical are at maximum rate.

The triangle method is based upon this theory. Focusing on your astral senses and waiting... Thats all.

quote:
To focus the attention on both of the ears and third eye, are you trying to imagine and hear that high-pitched "ringing" sound that sometimes occurs in the ears, while at the same time simply focusing your visual point of focus at your third eye in the blackness of the closed eyelids?

Well Graupel i am not trying to imagine anything. The ringing sound is always there but we actually dont hear it as we are focused on our physical bodies. When you wake up in the morning you can find the ringing sound in your ears. Or you can hear it when you are in trance... To use the triangle method your body has to be relaxed first. As you relax you can concentrate on your breathing. While relaxing you can feel that your body gets that numb feeling. Wait for the ringing sound appear. As you fall deeper into trance you will start to hear it.

quote:
If not, what would you try to do with the third eye in order to focus on that too?

I am not visualizing anything in front of me or on my third eye. I just try to feel it. Try to feel your physical eyes now. Then try to feel your physical ears. Now try to feel them both. Its like this. You can easily understand that you are doing the right thing. If you do it correctly you will feel yourself floating in the air while feeling the physical body.

I have to tell you that you will start to see images or visions. Just let them come and go away. If you dont you can fall asleep or you may find yourself in a lucid dream. Which is a good sign that shows you are on the right track.

One of my friends told me that using bwgen with the Triangle method works fine, too. He used the Deep Mind IV preset.
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I sometimes use the wind method to move. It may help...

Feel like a wind comes and takes you where ever you want...
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The five astral senses are:

Clairaudiance (astral hearing), Psychometry (astral touch/feeling), Clairvoyance (astral sight), Imagination (astral equivalent of taste), and Emotional Idealism (astral equivalent of smell).
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quote:
Birm,

Very thoughtfull and very smart teck! So lets strip out all of the extra polished metal and get to the frame. Your hole reply is just saying "let your body fall asleep by thinking about your breathing and talking to your self then soon your body will become paralyzed(asleep)and your mind will be awake because of thinking about your breathing?"

Thanks!

Well actually i think we are just spoiling it up working with methods. We are concentrating on the methods so much that we loose control over the experience.

So i just let my self go with the flow... To stay awake i usually concentrate on my breathing... But when the images start to appear and sounds can be heard from the astral, i start to move my conciousness to my astral couple... I concentrate on my astral ears and astral eyes. This time letting the images or visions come and go...

After a short while vibrations start...

If i want to project i concentrate on my senses. But if i want to have an OBE. I try to feel the physical also. Feeling both physical and astral bodies is a hard thing at first times. But you can get used to it. Then i push my self up.

Generally when i am OBE, i try to fly. So i can be sure that i am OBE...
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Nice topic!

Well...
I am 27 years old. I have a fiancee, and i will marry in 6 months... I am a java programmer. I studied Electronics Engineering at school. I love to play chess. I play guitar. I love computer games. Adventure games especially. My favorite rock band is 'Dream Theater'...
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quote:
Just to be sure I am on the right track.. I had a few questions regarding how to go through Monroe's exercises as described in Journeys Out of the Body.

Dear Graupel,
It seems that you are on the right track... I will try to help you with my knowledge and experience so far...

quote:
To enter the (focus 10, 12?) borderline sleep state (Monroe also called it Condition D), could you just visualize your favorite shape (a parabolic square, for example) and hold that image in your actual thought or mind (even though the fantasy visualization would not be perfect)? And you just continue to hold it and expect something to happen shortly?

The basic idea on visualizing shapes is to move your focus awareness from your physical body to your astral couple. When you visualize something you start seeing with your astral eyes. When you concentrate on your astral senses, your astral couple will be aware. You are moving your conciousness to your astral body...

quote:
What should eventually happen once you have held the image in your mind for a long enough time? Should you eventually reach a state where you realize you can no longer feel your body (sleep paralysis) and know that you can project from this state, despite practicing this at the beginning of a night's sleep?

If you can successfully move your conciousness to your astral body. Your physical body starts sleeping process. At this point you can not feel your physical body. But you will be aware that it is still there. And anytime you can go back. You can still feel your physical body senses. But the physical sounds for example will feel like they are coming from the other room.

quote:
Do the hypnagogic images usually appear in your field of vision after you have entered Focus 10, and do they eventually fade out into blackness or do they form a dreamscape eventually? If so, what would be a way to stop the progression of hypnagogic images in order to focus on the black void and leaving the body (as not to be preoccupied with the hypnagogic imagery)?

Well in my experience the images appear and disapear first. But in a short while images become short movies. They will last for about 2-3 seconds. Some of these movies can be interesting. So if you focus on one of these you may start lucid dreaming. Or you can fall asleep.

You dont need to stop these images. Let them come and go. These visions or images are thought forms. Just like letting the thoughts come and go. Let them fade away...

quote:
Is the state of sleep paralysis and loss of all physical sensations *ABSOLUTELY* required to induce the vibrational state, or does it work mainly because the loss of physical sensation focuses away from the physical somehow and initiates the natural exit reflex into the RTZ?

I use my triangle method to get the vibrational state. (You can find my method in Astral Conciousness forums) Everyone can find was to get the vibrational state. But you must get used to the vibrations before you start to project (or OBE) fully concious. If you can feel the vibrations for 15-20 seconds; you are on the right track...

When the vibrations become really annoying, dont wait for a natural exit, just push yourself up... With trial and error, I am sure you can exit conciously...

Good Luck,
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quote:Why didn't you started to build the path to the pyramid for us ?

Well, actually i was wandering around... I just wanted to see how the island looks like... Next time i will try to chop the trees, i promise... [8D]

One more tip:

If you cant hear anything with your astral ears, try the following:

Close your eyes. Put the palms of your hands to both of your ears and listen carefully. Soon you will hear a high pitched sound like "ssssss". Concentrate on it. While concentrating on the sound feel your third eye. Feel yourself in the triangle...

You will feel disoriented in seconds.
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Dear APGuy,

quote:
But pretty much 30 secs. after I got them I fell asleep

This is the sleeping reflex. Your subconcious decides it is a good time for a seperation and the seperation process begins. Your concious is used to this process and when it begins you loose your concious as a reflex.

Try to concentrate and try to understand the falling asleep process... Then you will understand the basics of the vibrations and the starting of the projection process...

Get used to the vibrations. And you will get quicker results in time...
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Thanks for your replies, hope this method helps you...

My father once told me while teaching:
"Every guitar player holds the instrument different..."

Same rules apply to the astral projection i think. The important thing is to remember the feeling...

When you are in astral or OBE your senses are different than the real world senses. My point is to remember those senses and to concentrate on them... So the seperating will be triggered... Many people are using CD's or Bwgen to get to the astral projection state. But the experienced projectors dont need these tools. Because they just know what they will feel.

The triangle method makes you remember the astral body senses and triggers the vibrations...

Your subconcious waits until your conciousness to fade away. Then the seperation process begins. The key point is to concentrate on the astral senses and trigger the subconcious to start the seperation process...

While concentrating the triangle dont talk, dont think, just be a passive observer. Just like when you hear an unexpected sound and you quietly listen to it.

When the vibrations start dont panic! or you will spoit it! If you can hold on to the vibrations for about 15 - 20 seconds you can find your self in your room...

If you want to project to somewhere like Astral Pulse Island; Then follow these instructions:

Hold on to the vibrations for 15 - 20 seconds and when you feel like you are seperated. Visualize yourself flying over the ocean. In the distance the island will appear and get closer...

While you are there look for me too...
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You can find the new AP techs in the Astral Conciousness forum...
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One more advice:

Everytime before you are going to sleep, promise your self to have conciousness in your dream.

This induces Lucid Dreams most of the time. Then you can project into higher levels...
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Hi There,

Yesterday i projected to the Astral Pulse Island. Island was quite bigger than i expected. I was flying over the sea and getting closer to the island every second. Finally when i arrived i landed on the shore and looked for someone on the island. But nobody was there...

I tried to go to the pyramid and i just couldnt find a way. Because the trees were blocking my way. I tried to fly over the trees but I couldnt land on the pyramid. It was boring and there was nothing more to do. So i projected somewhere else....
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Just a reminder :
Focus 22 is also known as the Lucid Dreaming state...
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Here i have collected some information for you about focus levels...

Focus 21 is basically the bridge between Astral and Physical. It can often be viewed as crossing some kind of expanse, or moving through a tunnel, etc. Basically, if you feel a definite shift like you have moved from one place to another - then you just crossed the bridge zone. How each individual experiences that shift can vary. But moving through some kind of tunnel is a common way of perceiving it.

Focus 22
Within Focus 22 we often find those perhaps still physically alive who are in an unconscious state. These include people in comas, in drug induced states, who are dreaming, who are insane or deranged. This is a very chaotic level.

Focus 23
In Focus 23, the human inhabitants tend to be those no longer physically alive who have become "stuck" for one reason or another. Often they are confused about or unaware of their death. Many here attempt to maintain contact with the physical world around familiar people or places. These are the ones we call ghosts. Focus 23 inhabitants are stuck because they are unable to leave through their own resources. The range of their free-will choices is extremely narrow. They are typically alone and completely isolated from communication with other humans. This can occur through the circumstances of their death or habitual patterns of thinking prior to death.

Focus 24, 25 and 26

The Belief System Territories
Inhabitants of The Belief System Territories are attracted to specific locations by Afterlife beliefs they held while physically alive. Every set of Afterlife beliefs held by humans at any time has a specific location with these Focus levels. In a sense, Belief System Territory inhabitants are stuck like those in Focus 23. The difference is that they are not isolated from contact with others. All inhabitants of a specific Territory are in contact with all others sharing their beliefs. Contact with anyone holding conflicting beliefs is severely limited. Free will choices here are restricted to only those compatible with the prevailing beliefs. Some of these areas look like Heavens, some look like Hells. Each one is rigidly structured around the beliefs held by the inhabitants. In my experience, it is extremely difficult to move people from this area to areas of greater free will choice.

Focus 27
Focus 27 is the Afterlife area of greatest free will choice for its inhabitants. It's an area created by humans and often resembles physical earth environments. Contact and communication is open between all inhabitants. Many people living in Focus 27 provide assistance to new arrivals in their adjustment to living in the Afterlife. It is a highly organized and structured area. There are Centers of activity here providing for the needs of human beings in their continuing development in the Afterlife. In my explorations, I've found Centers for: Education, Life Review, Health and Rejuvenation, Planning, Scheduling, Rehabilitation, Humor, and many others. These Centers also coordinate activities in the physical world to assist in human development.

Also, take a look at some of the other threads here. Particularly, Gateway Wave 1 pointers by Frank, and Achieving Consciousness State for Astral Phasing by Adrian. Both of these topics are located in the Astral Consciouness forum as "stickies". There is a wealth of information in those threads.
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quote:
Well what just happend is usual for me, so is the following. I felt VERY heavy and sinking into my bed. But what I will say next NEVER happened before. I felt my fingers, then my hands, and finaly my arms geting a weird feeling, like it was being cemented to my bed or just fasend down!Any one know what this means?

jc84corvette this is the case when your astral body gets loose. You are feeling a physical paralysis. At this point you shall concentrate on your third eye and passively watch the images appear in front of you. Passively means just watch the images dont do anything because your higher self is doing those things you wathc. When you start to get that depth feeling on the images that means your astral body is getting free. And finally when you feel like you are in a deep 3D black space then it is the Focus 21. A TV screen may appear at this point which takes you to Focus 22...
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