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yes thanx fallnangel
but that's all easier said than done! all goes so fast! I guess I was still in the amazement of the exit, and thus influenced the astral where I was ... which was not the same than the one of my dream...
I realise also we have very little control about the process, it seems to me as if my guide had made me do it rather than myself doing it...

I would say you grow up spiritualy, because out there your thoughts have to be very clean if you want to enjoy, besides, you get closer to guides and different teachers, so you learn more. My first experience really showed me that it felt more real than real: you tend to beleive that the true reality is actually when you dream.
When you're out of body you feel no weight, you float, and can fly real fast. You get the most sensations while getting out, then you try to realise how to take control of this new environment. For Sound it was terrible I started to hear a LOUD music, it's never that loud in dreams (it would wake you up) but it did not last for long, I woke up, and I staid dumb founded for quite a while.
I assume you can meet all kind of people, I have only seen two shadows that seemed to be friends, and they were taking me somewhere in emergency.... don't know where though!
I was dreaming, but this night I had already realised once that I was dreaming, because a lift had gone dow so fast I stayd in the vertical coridor... thinking I MUST be dreaming, and so I sure can fly... beside if I'm not, I'm gonna die... Then I seen my dream go into a game boy screen, and when I realised "evil was REAL" I started feeling my Protector, and then great energetic sensations and soon I was pulled out of body by a strong force, the time I realise I was out of my body, I had already started to get back... *sigh* but that's it mankind has Got to know... his limitations! By the way I had been open for energies for long hours before going to sleep, and I even felt a fluid run around my balls and flow on my belly, it was a very pleasant sensation, and I also felt like somebody was touching my hand, and playing with my head, which had been floating by... to make it short, there are a LOT of new sensations you can get before actually getting out of body!
I have only tonight experience so I might not be the one you need, but I wanted to write about it...

There is something I forgot to mention and that is very important: When first out, you just can't understand everything, for you're in a total new world... it's like being born to a New Life, you look around, are conscious this is not anymore a dream, but a real travel, and everything can happen, you feel it in the air, my thought seemed to be really tourmented, for everything started go too fast for me and while I was trying to calm down, I also put unwillingly my conciousness back in my physical body... *too bad* !

so real time zone, does not belong to low astral?

I just got out of my body... for the first time... but for only two seconds, don't even know if my feet have been out... it was during a dream, and I realised the evil was REAL in my dream, I guess that Idea of REAL brought a kind of lucidity, then I felt two "friends" who yet are unnamed, taking me to an unknown place, flying... then I fell back in my body..... but the sensations were WOW, I start to measure what means more real than real... Still wonder if that was enough to be called a first time... but the proof it can happen to me is made.

Jilola
Does this mean I had missed the vibrations from blanking out?
And was it RTZ?? Where did this center light come from? some previous tenant?

so once you've got the astral eye your conciousness is already in the astral! That would mean I was almost out so... how coul I have tried to get out my body when I started seeing the ceiling with my eyes closed, and this center light which I don't have normaly... still balancing from someone who might have dispared in the mean while!

ok so I made it to use my astral eye, it was really weird, I told the whole story somewhere else... *sigh* I'm reaaaal far from controling this shift!

acually a part of me was humming this at my ear
thanx jilola, for you say it loud!

by the way, according to the description of deep trance by robert bruce, I assume I god my vibrations from light transe... is that a problem?

Nay weren't you the one who did talk about "astral eye"?
Psi how would you explain the shifting you do when you use your "minds eye"?
Darkangel, I can read you're talking about your astral eye, why don't you tell me what you think you do when you open it?

Jilola
What do you mean "limited AP"?

Yes I suppose so: the vibrations come naturaly, I'm sure of that, but in order to have them come I have to blank out for a short time... I would prefer being able to let them occur without blancking out! That's why I tried the rope technique... but it seems (whatever method I use, and even if I get vibrations) like I'm unable to get my body so asleep as for it to be paralysed, that's a shame! I have two different concepts for my mental side: awareness, which would be the level of mind-sleep, and space conciousness, that is the point, sphere or whatever where I'm focusing to. But for the rope I use this conciousness, and this conciousness needs me to be more aware than when I let all myself go... I don't know if I make myself understood, but it's really a problem right now!

thanks psy and jilola.
I heard about (on this forum) Mind's eye, and Astral eye... are they the same? I don't think I've ever been able to make the shift conciously, can someone explain how it's done?

excuse me psi, but
What is hypnogonia?

[Shaper]

yes Shaper please tell me what you can discover. My main source for what I told you is Eliphas Levy "Dogme et rituel de haute magie". Ainsi que Oswald Worth.

Actually I knew I was not alone in the case of seeing my ceiling: I read an arcticle on internet of a girl who was telling a story about the same kind of thing. But there was no mention if it is RTZ or not.

About the girl, my shiver, which guides me already mostly since June, but actually since all my life, seemed to react when I put together the Idea of the girl, and the Idea of my guide. The shiver seemed to mean also that the family was actually me, the mother of my daughter and my daughter, living in a house... which seems impossible by now... but who knows?

But even though my shiver responded to these questions, I'm still a little unsure... and will indeed continue to investigate...

Not much actually, but thatnks anyway for your reply. I think I might be getting off topic, for nobody seems to have the answers I need... except maybe myself... ? or even my guide! Anyway, I'm happy when I read a reply by somebody rather neutral, who may see the situation with a little more distance than myself alone!

I didn't think I would disagree with the administrator, but I really think that human multidimentional being is at the image of God, not only one plane of him!

If you read that it's possible, it might be possible, but I don't think you would stay there without acting if it starts to happen: we still are in an alive state when we are in transe! So conservasion reflexes must still exist. I'd rather say you swallow your tongue while laughing like mad, while doing sport, or while being nervously much chocked... but while traveling out of body, it seems we should before all be relaxed, which I think, gets the danger to null.

dino, you could do some efforts
of course the reading of the treatise is usefull, but expressing yourself on the subject would also interest other people like myself.

I think I had an insight of RTZ yesterday, but didn't know how to project for I'm almost sure I was not paralised. I did not try to move though. I had my eyes closed and I saw the ceiling of my room, but there was a center light device there which I actually don't have. I'm not really sure anymore about that vision, for nobody commented my post in astral experiences.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5978

What I think is that yes, you actually have to be more close to awakeness if you want to get to RTZ, but you're still in a strange state, you're not fuzzy at all, but your conciousness has to be somewhere else than in the physical. I would advise you trial and error: the images and voices are not from RTZ as far as I can tell, so they mean your then on some monroe focus... don't know which one, but probably your dream pool, anyway. To project to RTZ, I would say it is needed to settle your conciousness below physical awareness but above dream images, once settled, just wait, think loosely, and you might start to see throu your eyes closed as I did... pay attention that your eyes are really closed, for they might open slightly and you might think that's it, while it's not. Also you have to know the picture is VERY clear... and while I saw it I had plenty of time to wonder about what I was seeing... When I realised that this center light was not mine, I started to be much perturbed, and I started to unconsciously want that it stoped, and it did. I don't know how to project from that point... so I ask other people to react!

warn you I never projected yet.
But I seem to recognise what you did. I think you went very deep, and close to sleep, I have the impression that the deeper you are, the faster time goes, but that might be wrong. Anyway, the vibrations at your feet is not enough: I've been able to feel vibrations in my whole body, and I assure you this is a sign: heart fastens, and I think separation really needs to go thru these strong feelings, even though you might miss them by blacking out, if you miss all of them, you'll only be able to manage for a lucid dream, or you'll just sleep your good night. You certainly are close, the point is to tune your conciousness into a still place, and accept blacking out, but paying attention to the limit, where you still may decide "I'm waking up"... when you will have settled your mind in this position for some minutes, vibrations will come everywhere. That's my opinion though, has to be checked out.

I think this fear ressembles the "Dweller of threshold", and I think his task is to prevent you from going where you are not ready to go. So by calling such strong powers as pentagram of course you've been bursted, but traditionaly the pentagram has a symbolism which changes in function of the way you dispose it, it is a kind of arrow, when you stand on the head of a branch the sign welcomes evil, but when you stand between two branch, the sign blasts evil. It's a quite diffuclt sign to use because of its ambiguous nature. But I have no experience of it during projection, for simple reason: I could not go thru the whole process yet. But anyway, I'm not ready for using such a sign during projection, so I will evitate that as much as I can.

Protecting yourself doesn't mean you have to fall in superstition. The way you think may call for more light, so just try to direct your thought to it.

I don't know what you call a psychic, but if this is a scientist, just don't talk about it, they are really stupid for these kind of matter, and have only drugs to offer.

thanks again, and be sure I'll be studious
sleep well!

Thank you so much
I'll read them all
Hope we talk again soon!
Have a great day... (I seem to realise that it is early morning in finland isn't it?)

sorry jilola, it's just not possible
If you don't give me a reference, I'll take the one that title inspire me.. I might never see the relation with our discussion (very interesting though (and I thank you for this))

Ok, that's much clearer to me thanx
What I did not tell you is that from the moment I saw the girl, and the moment I felt the sensations there has been a while, so I think I saw the girl thru remote viewing, without getting out, I went back to almost full awake state, then I managed to place my awareness at the right level so the sensation start... that's my actualised version.

what about the posting by frank?

quote:There are 6 pages of topics when searching for "phasing" by frank, What posting do you refer to?