Messages

It's interesting to note that during the New Testament church's most dynamic period - the first century - there was no such thing as the New Testament.  Is it coincidence that this is also when we see such a dynamic working of the Holy Spirit?  I don't think so.

It's also interesting to note that when Jesus ascended he said he would send us a helper, - the Holy Spirit, but he didn't mention anything about a New Testament.

It's also interesting to note that Paul never intended for his writings to be bundled up and regarded as scripture.  It's clear from Paul's writings that he thought Jesus' return was imminent and therefore it's reasonable to think that he had no illusions about a "New Testament" coming about.

So, when an official, organized, heirarchical church was founded in Rome and set about putting their official stamp of approval on which religious texts would be "in" and which "out" - the body of Christ on Earth began the transition from a loosely organized group of city churches relying on the Holy Spirit - to religious subjects to whom religious truth was dictated by an authoritarian group of people.  Bye Bye Holy Spirit.[]

Yes, - that was a lucid dream, if you were able to realize "I'm lucid - wow!".  It sounds like you lost your lucidity and it kind of morphed into another dream.  In the 4 or 5 lucid dreams that I've had I found that my degree of lucidity is different - sometimes really aware and other times not quite as clear.  Also, for me anyway the lucidity fades if I don't keep reminding myself that I'm dreaming.  

So the next time you get lucid, immediately ask for "awareness now" and "clarity now".  Do this several times if that's what it takes for it to be totally obvious that you are dreaming and aware of it.

I doubt that the movie had anything to do with you becomming lucid, - but who knows.  Maybe I'll rent it and see what happens!

I had a weird lucid dream once where basically I had a dream within a dream.  I got lucid and realized I was dreaming.  When I woke up I thought "wow - I just had another lucid dream."  But it turned out that I had awakend into another dream because after a little while longer I *really* woke up and realized - "Holy Toledo!, I just had a dream in which I had a lucid dream!"  

[]

I'm currently reading a book called "The Kingdom Within" by John Sanford who is an episcopal priest as well as a Jungian psychologist.  He asserts that the Bible can be read on many levels, but that the hidden message is that salvation, per se which is following the spiritual path of Christ, is equivalent to allowing the Holy Spirit to reintegrate our unconscious (our "Shadow self" as Jung would term it) with our conscious.

So for example he asserts that in the story of the Prodigal son, the "good" son represents our conscious self and the prodigal son represents our shadow self.  The lesson in the story then is that the "good" son in us (our conscious) must accept back the prodigal "our unconscious" before harmony can be restored with the father (God). (In the story of course, the good son is at first offended at the prospect of the prodigal returning and is admonished by the father that it is a good thing and should be celebrated).

When the disciples are in the boat (Christ sleeping) and the waves and wind pick up, Sanford would say the hidden meaning here is that our small conscious mind (us on the boat) is floating on the much more vast unconscious (the sea) and that when we embark on a spiritual journey we become frightened by the things in the unconscious getting stirred up (the storm) and that in order to save ourselves the "Christ" in us (Holy Spirit or Christ consciousness) must awaken and calm the storm (reconcile the unconscious with the conscious).

Anyway, I'm only part way through the book, but it's an interesting way of looking at the Bible.  Despite the sound of it he's not reducing spirituality to a psychological process but rather he is asserting that the spiritual process of the Holy Spirit transforming us is in fact accomplishing this reconciliation between our unconscious and conscious minds and that this is the inner-transformation that Christ talked about.  

[literal]

quote:Originally posted by exothen

The Bible is a text about spiritual matters, yes, but that doesn't mean that there are hidden spiritual meanings behind the text.

1 Corinthians 2:7 - But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:  

Also, Jesus, when asked why he spoke in parables indicated that it was so that they would hear, but not understand - clearly implying a hidden message that some would understand and not others.

And as for The Revelation being literal and not infused with hidden meaning, that's absurd.  Consider the following passage:

And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, ... And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Do you think when Jesus returns he's going to be in the midst of seven literal candlesticks and that he's going to be holding seven literal stars in his right hand and that a literal sword will be sticking out of his mouth?

Personally I believe that when people insist on taking the Bible literally it is because they are two scared or lazy to take personal responsiblity for their own spiritual growth.  Spiritually they refuse to grow up.  In Old Testament days the jewish people didn't have a concept of individuality before God - they were part of a nation that was covered via a group covenant with God.  

Jesus announced the passing away of that covenant and the good news that we could all, via the Holy Spirit, seek God directly.  Unfortunately, many Christians have refused to accept the "perfect law of freedom" that Jesus offered, preferring instead to be part of pack like the Old Testament jewish nation adhering to a written law.  Their written law is the New Testament and they cling tenaciously to the hope that if they just believe the Bible literally and in Jesus' death and resurrection that nothing else will be required of them.  Because they are spiritual infants they have made the Bible their God, rendering the Holy Spirit mostly idle.  

Unfortunately they have missed the point that spiritual growth doesn't come from a book or from Jesus' death on the cross.  That is the beginning but the radical internal transformation by the work of the Holy Spirit is something we must strive after relentlessly - and that message is "hidden in plain site" in parables throughout the New Testament but can only be understood by those willing to let loose of their written law and plunge into the messy, sticky, vague, frustrating, challenging and yet wonderful process of allowing the Holy Spirit to bring about that internal transformation spoken of in Romans.

Technically, "The Dark Night of the Soul" is a stage in the spiritual transformation process that occurs just before one reaches "Christ Consciousness" or enlightenment.  Christian mystics throughout the ages have written about it, including St. John of the Cross (I think he coined the term in a book by the same name) and Teresa de Avila (John's spiritual mentor, I believe - look on Amazon for her book entitled, I think, Many Mansions).  

For a more modern discussion of the spiritual transformation process that includes "The Dark Night of the Soul" read "Putting on the Mind of Christ" by Jim Marion - in which he describes his own spiritual transformation as a Christian by putting it into the context of a model of consciousness put forth by Ken Wilber.

In short, Marion would assert that when our life seems to be in upheavel with all manner of problems coming to the surface this could be side-effects related to the work of the Holy Spirit purging us of psycological/spiritual problems in order to push us to the next level of consciousness - so it doesn't have to necessarily be the Dark Night of the Soul, but rather any transition from one level of spiritual consciousness to the next.  And ultimately the answer to how to deal with it is essentially to ride it out, recognize it as a spiritual cleansing of sorts, and to try to see it as a life-lesson and to strive to have the proper perspective on the suffering and confusion that is a necessary part in the transformation process and life in general.

and regarding The Revelation, if there's one thing I've learned in the last 25 years it's that author's sell a ton of books by speculating on what it all means and how it relates to things happening in the world today.  And so far, they've all been wrong and have "revised" their interpretation as events change.  For a good laugh, read "The Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsey.  In the 70s it seemed so obvious that the world would end any time, but the book seems ridiculous now (I read it a year or so again).

I believe that many Christians desperately want to believe that we are living in the end times, because of a few underlying psychological effects:

1) on some level we resent what we perceive as "immorality" in the world when we're doing our best to be good.  And we want God to come and give us our reward and make those immoral sinners sorry for what they've done and for laughing at us. (We secretly resent being told to love our enemies, so we pretend to love all people, but secretly want God to punish them and congratulate us on our moral steadfastness.)

2) We want an "easy way out".  We understand that Jesus was advocating a radical inner spiritual transformation and yet we don't see it happening in our lives, but rather we see ourselves continually seduced by material things and the worries of the world. So, rather than having to go down the difficult path of actively and passionately seeking that inner transformation via the work of the Holy Spirit, we want Jesus to sweep down, take us up to Heaven and then tap us on the head with a magic wand that instantly accomplishes that work that we avoid here.

3) Or, because all people secretly like to feel persecuted, we like to fantasize about the ultimate persecution - the post-trib rapture in which we moral upstanding Christians must unjustly go through a terrible time of unfair tribulation before we finally get to see our evil persecutors get what's coming to them.

Keep in mind that I'm not suggesting all Christians harbor these thoughts or that they are as blatant as I've made them out to be, but I know personally that although I seem to love all people and think right toward them, the Holy Spirit is constantly revealing to me the subtle ways in which my inner-thoughts deviate from God's will.

Those points made, I will state my suspicion that there are no "end times" and that John's vision is really a symbolic representation of the inner battle and transformation that must occur in each of our souls on the path to perfection. John's vision doesn't have to do with worldly events at all or with the second coming of Christ into the world, per se.  But rather that it is a symbolic representation of the internal spiritual transformation that each individual soul must go through on the path to perfection - i.e. the 2nd coming of Christ is the attainment of perfect Christ-likeness in each of us.

Thus, we need not look outside of ourselves to world affairs or for a savior to magically appear.  Jesus told us the Kingdom of Heaven is within us and not to be tricked when people say, "Look, he's over there!".  When we focus our attention on people, places and events outside of us we miss the point.  The world will go on and on and on until it can't anymore - that has nothing to do with our spirituality.  Our spiritual battle is waged inside of us and that's where our spiritual focus needs to be.

Over and over again I've found that when I complain about others' behavior or external circumstances, what I am really doing is avoiding my internal spiritual responsibility for allowing the Holy Spirit to do its work in me.

Anyway, - that's my .02 regarding The Revelation (sorry for being off topic). []

Here is a link to an excellent treatise (for lack of a better word) on Christian mysticism (by Lawrence Richardson.  It's about a hundred pages and I found it easiest to print it out and read it over time.

http://www.chrmysticaloutreach.com

Here's a post from Beth that provides a good starting point:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7491

quote:Originally posted by alt0xFF

What could be the cause of the blindness? What should I try if I remain sightless the next time?

William Buhlman, in his books, says that if your vision is dull or unclear to forcefully demand, "clarity now" and/or "awareness now".  Last week when I had either an OBE or lucid dream (not sure) it was initially pitch black and I tried this (had to repeat it several times) and it worked great!

b_smith,

Most translations say some variation of "whether in-the-body or out-of-the-body"...

Here's the King James:

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

and here's the New International:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven.  Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-God knows.  And I know that this man-whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows-was caught up to paradise.  he heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.

This confirms that Paul (and his intended readers) were familiar with the concept of being out of one's body.  We can also tell that Paul wasn't particularly bothered by the concept of being out of one's body.

Also, I believe that it's very possible that when John and others mention being "in the spirit" they are referring to a state in which they are absent from their body.

It's interesting to note that with relatively little practice we can get out of our bodies.  This tells me that God put that spiritual mechanism there to be used.  Throughout the ages mystics, monks, shamans, and all manner of spiritual seekers have wound up out of their bodies.  Several pieces I've read that were written by Catholic monks make it sound like it's extremely common in monestaries - and almost regarded as a nuisance because it seems to be the natural result of prayer and meditation, but tends to distract one from those pursuits.  The reason most people never stumble across this is because very few people meditate at all.

Frankly, I'm surprised that Christian pentecostal churches aren't all over this, but I personally believe that there is a profound spiritual change coming over the world and that before too long (in my lifetime? maybe) it will be much more common among Christians.

My interst in astral projection as a means for spiritual growth evolved gradually over the last decade.  In my spiritual searching and my attempts to understand what I saw in the world I allowed myself to stray outside the lines of what typical Christian churches teach.  I prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide my searching and after reading a wide variety of material ran across information on Astral projection about 2 or 3 years ago.  Before that it had never even occurred to me that I could leave my body and naturally I was a bit uncomfortable with the concept.  It really took about two years of consideration and prayer for me to get comfortable with it and move forward in my attempts.  So, while I try not to intrude on others' spiritual searching I wouldn't recommend it to my Christian friends without suggesting that they pray and meditate about it for awhile.  But anyway, I've obviously reached a point where I'm comfortable pursuing it and have faith that the Holy Spirit will guide me and keep me safe.  

[]

I had never heard of this document or theory until reading the Thiaoouba Prophecy a couple years ago, so I wonder if aside from that TP whether this "theory" has ever seen the light of day anywhere else.

And as for the TP itself (I just re-read it in the last few days) - I found it to be so riddled with inconsistencies and implausibilities that, in my mind at least, it cast doubt on everything it even referenced (such as this Japan thing).  I felt that the TP itself was the product of a well-meaning, but delusional mind.

Also, - remember recently that burial box that they found in Israel that they thought might have held the remains of Jesus' brother?  Experts and scientists descended upon it like ants at a picnic and made quick work in establishing it that it was a fraud (the inscription just put on the box in the last 20 years or so).  So, unless the keepers of this document are willing to expose it to scrutiny than it's hard to put much faith in their claims.  I could just as easily make up a story about Jesus visiting the North Pole.  I could release photos of Jesus riding a Polar bear and documents proving that he invented the igloo and I'll bet there would be a few conspiracy buffs that would belief it and bandy it around the internet.  So I'll wait before I jump on this Japan thing. []

We have a terrible tendency to anthropomorphize *God* and subject him (for lack of a better pronoun) to our limited perspective.  All of this stuff that we see around us: love, joy, peace, hate, crime, suffering is just creation in action (God dreaming the dream of creation, if you will).  We are all spiritual beings, parts of the whole of creation in the process of being perfected.

From a physical, human perspective that process is subjective; bad, evil, & imperfect, but from God's perspective it just is what it is - creation unfolding according to a perfect plan.  God is not disappointed or surprised or anything else by what we do.  God just *is* and all of creation will ultimately fall in line with that.

I believe that as we learn to rid ourselves of ego, we draw closer to the mind of God and are more able to put into this perspective those things that we see happening around us - and the more we will learn not to judge things (Jesus, I believe had perfect understanding and was able to reconcile this duality perfectly - as we ultimately must learn to do).  Also as this process of perfection occurs we become less concerned with judging what happens around us and more concerned with allowing the process of spiritual transformation to happen in us.  And that is what will drive large scale change, - not legislation or self-discipline or tyrannical rule or religious authority - but gazillions of spiritual beings slowly yielding to that process that transforms human nature into God's perfect nature.

I would love to hear your input.  As a Christian I naturally had some reservations about pursueing AP and after becoming aware of it I spent a year or two praying and pondering the issue before beginning.  

As a Christian and a free-thinker I've always felt like a square peg in a round hole, so it's been great for me to be able to read posts out here from Christians who are more like me.

I've been wrestling with how to approach AP for spiritual growth within a Christian context, how to assimilate all of the various AP-related info, books and posts, etc.,

Anyway, I'd love to hear how other Christians here view AP. What is it's spiritual purpose?  Should it be regarded as a "spiritual gift"? Should our approach be different than a non-Christian in how we pursue it? What are the spiritual dangers?  How widespread is this among Christians? Does the Holy Spirit lead us to pursue this or are we just not content to sit in a church pew and listen to sermons?  Should other Christians be encouraged to do this?

Anyway, I'd love to hear how others reconcile this with their faith.

Good topic, Mustardseed - I hope other Christians out here contribute! []

 

Awesome! - definitely an AP, maybe the island was "Astral Pulse" island -> http://www.astralpulse.com/locale/ []

It appears that there's an astral bowling alley near your home. [] Don't let it bother you unless you start hearing the pins crashing!

No heart trouble here, but I seem to remember reading in Robert Monroe's book that you shouldn't do this if you have a pace maker!?  Anyway, I guess the worst that could happen would be "having the ultimate OBE"! []

Oh, also here's another nagging question that I had after reading the first three chapters:

After those blacks and yellows came to Earth and the bad blacks moved to Africa, they began spiritually oppressing their population.  Thao, the gigantic space hermaphrodite, explained that the Thiaooubians decided to intervene because they didn't want these people being spiritually oppressed.

So they communicated telepathically with one priest and told him to change things.  The other priests called him nuts.  At this point, Thao said that they could have destroyed the priests and communicated directly with all the people, but they didn't because this was a "delicate" situation and that it would have been psycologically harmful to the people since they were just used to following orders.

So, instead of communicating directly with the people and killing the priests, they proceeded to communicate directly with the people and kill the priests?!  They telepathically commanded all 500,000 of them to evacutate the city (via one set of gates) in the dead of night and then watch in terror as their entire city (and the 12 evil priests) were reduced to rubble!

Now that's what I call psycologically damaging!  And if that's how they handle a "delicate" situation I don't want to be around when they decide to be less tactful!

Also, if they were interested in freeing these people spiritually, then why did they claim to be God while they were doing it?  They said from the clouds that this is what happens when you make God angry and that from now on you better do what the Great Priest (the one they let live) says, or worse things will happen.

How does that foster spiritual freedom?

Also, we're led to believe that these people acted like primitives and began stories about Gods in "chariots of fire".  But we're told that these people were familiar with space ships (they had them before), levitation, telepathy, and had weapons capable of great destruction.  So if they were acquanted with all of this stuff wouldn't they recognize the gigantic space alien hermaphrodites' tactics as those of a technologically superior race, rather than believe that they were God?

Also, if the gigantic space alien hermaphrodites were willing to intervene when some of the people were being spiritually oppressed why didn't they lift a finger shortly thereafter to prevent the entire civilization (and millions of people) from being decimated by an asteroid?

I'm really seeking to understand this so I'd appreciate any help I could get.  Again, maybe these questions will be cleared up as I read farther.

Thanks in advance for the help! []

mirzet,

Good questions, - I'd like to hear the answers too.  I just re-read the first the chapters today and have a bunch more questions but I'll post most of them later.

But regarding those people lost in that "warp", Thao (the gigantic alien hermaphrodite) explained that all of the people in the warp had accidentally got there and that the only way out was to be sent back to our regular universe or to die.  But Thao said that suicide would still be wrong for them and it wouldn't be advisable to send them back to the regular universe.  Thus when Thao killed a few of them she said she was actually doing them a favor because now they could get on with their journey...

So, why didn't she kill ALL OF THEM and let all of them out of the accidental purgatory?

Also, when they stopped by that other planet to gather radiation samples on their way back we were told that a nuclear disaster 150 years earlier had brought about this situation where deformed humans, living like primitives were beset by 6-foot cockroaches and ants the size of cows.  

Why, in 150 years, did ants and cockroaches grow to be as big as cows?  That seems like bad sci-fi to me.  I think an evolutionist here would suggest that that sort of change would take millions of years to occur on Earth and that radiation wouldn't "speed up" the process.

Anyway, - maybe the answers will be provided later but I'm really curious! []

Anyway, I'll post more questions later as I read more!

No, but here's a thread where it was discussed recently (89 posts):
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2921

...and also, - thank you very much Soulfire and Mustardseed for your kind comments! []

[For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord]

b_smith,

Rom 8:35-39: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? ... No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Many "churches" and their members are driven by doctrine, and an unspoken mandate to control their members and friends.  Fear is one of the tools they use to manipulate others to their will.  It took me a long time, but through my own prayer, meditation, reading and searching I was able to see fear for what it is: a tool used to manipulate.  Fear discourages us from truly seeking God.  Fear limits us and enslaves us to those who claim to be our spiritual leaders.  I recommend that you spend time thinking and praying on the nature of fear and where it comes from and what it's effect is on your spiritual life.  Only after I did that was I able to renounce my membership in the "Church of the scared, little bunny" as I like to call it.  

40 - but I've been carded both times in the last year that I bought an alcoholic drink - although there's a distinct possibility that the wait persons involved were just being kind (or angling for a big tip)!

But my hair's starting to go gray, so within a few years I don't think there'll be any more confusion... []

quote:Originally posted by bomohwkl
Oh, it is due to randomness? If you think the universe is created out of randomness, I cannot further explain anything to you.

You missed my point entirely.  I believe the universe was created by an intelligent designer.  I stated clearly in my post that i DID NOT disagree with the author's conclusion, but that his logic was poor. You are so eager to disagree with me that you obviously did not even bother to understand my post.

quote:In strictest speaking, no one can explicitly states rules for us to obey without understanding the reasons behind. I prefer to use the word guidance. True 'laws' and 'rules' are the crystallisation of centuries of wisdom and the inhabitants agree with their own free-will to observe such 'laws' and 'rules' as the wise inhabitants know that if they go against such 'rules' and 'laws' there will be unhappiness and suffering. This has been discussed the in reader forum

To even construct a list of rules is a sign of folly because any list of rules automatically sidelines your purported truth by creating a "legalist" structure in which your rules take center stage and provoke endless and meaningless debate (ala the 10 commandments).  For example, it's absurd to caution against using drugs because people will debate till the cows come home the meaning of that caution.  All drugs? Aspirin? Moderate alcohol use? Caffiene? What about anesthetics during surgery?  What about painkillers for the terminally ill?  Herbs?

Also, in that same commandment he prohibited (I forget his exact wording) any activity that alters consciousness.  Well, - meditation does that and he explicity did recommend that.

As I mentioned before his document was riddled with contradictions (don't force rules on someone, by the way here's my list of rules, don't let anyone know what your mantra is, but you might try using "Om", don't let anyone limit your personal freedom but believe what I tell you) and age-old spiritual ideas presented as new.  Quite frankly the assertion that he arrived at this after years of meditating hours a day is a bit laughable.  Chalko is apparently just one more person trying to gain a following and control what others believe.

If it works for you great, but as I've stated before I don't buy into the alien stuff.  If it fosters spiritual growth for you, - great!  We are all just spiritual beings tryin' to figure it out and none of us (not even that Michael guy or Chalko) have a corner on spiritual truth.  When someone tells me they know all the answers I run the other way because I know that when it comes to spirituality the value is in discovering truths for ourselves, not in just having someone else spoon-feed us their version of the truth (and in this case a set of rules to live by).

Peace. []

I've read a variety of books regarding near-death-experiences and there is quite a fascinating body of knowlege on the subject.  HOWEVER, it never ceases to amaze me that it never even seems to cross the researchers mind to conduct the types of experiments discussed in these articles, to determine whether someone who claims to have an OBE as part of an NDE *really* leaves their body.

Also, although I've had 3 OBEs, none of them were very lucid and I didn't get very far.  I'm hoping that will change, - however I find it quite perplexing that with thousands of people experimenting with Astral Projection why there hasn't been any credible and well-publicized scientific experiment documenting the reality of the experience.  And so for those of you here who are proficient at it, I feel compelled to point out to you that you can make a quick $1 million dollars from the "Amazing Randi" if you can prove under observation that you can actually leave your body - here's the link: http://www.randi.org/research/index.html !  And if the thought of profiting from your abilities is distateful I suggest you do it for the benefit of opening the worlds' eyes to the reality of Astral Proejection (I would be more than happy to take the money off of your hands). []

I believe that as we progress spiritually we will gradually shed more and more of our ego until there is no ego left and we have been absorbed completely back into the ocean of consciousness that we call God.  At that point "we" as individual spirits will cease to exist having completed our journey - and having added to that ocean of consciousness a vast amount of knowledge and experience.