Messages

quote:Originally posted by pl

greetings!
I am not here to debate, but im here to tell you that the new system is somewhat dangerous, because as i read form the book called pranic healing it says there that before you energize your major chackras first you must clean it so that if you have disease in that part it will not be energize.
Note: I am not opposing new but i am concern of the healht.

I can't prove it, but I think that from my experiences I'd say that statistically, it's better to do NEW than not do NEW.....

Yes, it might energize some dross around some of the chakras but you'll find that most people here who are practicing NEW are seekers and are people who can deal with a little flak in their lives....

quote:Originally posted by BlackBox

quote:What will you do if they don't like the fact that you can see them and they attack you?

lol.

Hope you don't catch them fornicating...that really pisses them off.

LOL!!!

You want to see demons??

Sounds pretty scary to me.

What will you do if they don't like the fact that you can see them and they attack you?

Here is a fairly exhaustive thread that happened earlier this year with a good amount of real info in it:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11079

Does this help??

[Tremendously]

quote:Originally posted by Lighthouse
In my own marriage, I was at one level of spiritual/sexual understanding when I got married which was a higher understanding of myself than I was in college.  I never would have chosen at 26, the same relationship I chose at 20 and I believe that when we got married, we may have both been on ths same page.  Since then, I have grown Tremendously and the same experience I may have sought at 26 is not the same experience I now desire at 33.  So, the deeper desire for something more weighs heavily on my mind and makes my heart yearn for a greater spiritual connection with my partner so I can fulfill that aspect of my own sexual nature.  Unfortunately, this is something I can not fabricate and my partner seems disinterested in the path [B)].

Kerri

Kerri,

This last paragraph is one of the most interesting and relevant in my opinion. Others here have mentioned, in many different ways, that it's the motive that matters. And I agree completely.

You indicate here a growing, burgeoning, almost aching desire for higher understanding and union with "the ALL" (something more). It seems like torture when you are going through years of it, but it's a really good sign. Mystical writers have written quite a bit about this. I would liken it to the gradual formation of a powerful magnet in ones heart through all that yearning and pining for the Beloved. And that magnet when sustained long enough cannot fail to grow and succeed at attracting the Beloved (God, signified as one's Higher Self as well as in the soul & Higher Self of ones mate).

My point is that this formation of the magnet of the heart appears as an overlay or tint to everything the soul does, but especially with respect to interactions with others. Love blossoms and threatens to overwhelm you at times. And under these conditions sexual activity is not just OK, it is hallowed, especially in the eyes of God.

It is literally and figuratively, God loving God.

My 2 cents[]

quote:Originally posted by DrShaman

It has been proved that the process of plate tectonics determine
how continens move. Through studying this process, scientists can go back through history and make maps of how the earth looked like at a certain time. These maps are not similar in any way to these maps made by the theosophical society.

So even if there were a lot of very bright people in the theosophical society, they couldn't have got it right with this information on how the earth looked because  
it contradicts scientific evidence.

It seems like every few years they find new evidence and come up with a new big theory which contradicts the old theory.

All they (archeologists and geologists) have is theories and extrapolations of meager evidence. I realize that psychics can't prove anything they do either. We all choose what we want to believe.

quote:Originally posted by Thanatos

even if I grant you that there is only perception in a subjective universe, it does not mean that the mechanism postulated as underlying the "possession experience" has any legitimacy;  It does not mean that the "possession experience" necessarily implies that individuals with said experiences have actually been possessed by others.   In fact, if you could produce the "possession experience" by stimulating certain regions of the brain, then that would be good evidence that the "possession experience" is all in your head.

And I agree with you.

Reality is a tricky thing. I've found that if a person actively  (meaning that they feel and think it fairly strongly) believes something, that they will attract to themselves experiences and evidence to support their thesis. There appears to be a "near field reality warp" effect in the world of that person. If you can accept the possibility of this, then you can see the possibility that "reality" is a fairly negotiable, variable and ultimately, subjective thing for all of us. We generate our own reality.

I've observed this for a long time and I used to dive right in with debating "truth" surrounding ideas such as yours. After a while I started to realize that it is fruitless to try to convince someone of something that they actively disbelieved. And the reason is not that "they are wrong and I'm right and they're too dense to see it", the truth of the matter is that within the sphere of that persons personal reality distortion field, their thesis is at least partially true.

If I were to (and I can do this at will if I want to) remain passively in the locality of the person whose idea I previously disputed, and observe the physics of that locality, I would observe that the physics obey, at least to some extent, the thesis of the other person, not my own. If I then reassert myself, and begin to actively project my own thesis upon the screen of "reality", and if I am a fundamentally stronger person in this respect, then I can change the physics of the locality to support my thesis.

So.....if you believe that possession is bunk, then I actually have to agree with you. And, might I add, it's one way to avoid being possessed.[][][][][][][][]

There is only perception in a subjective universe....(like this one)[]

Here is a pic of me on a backpacking/fishing trip in the Beartooth Wilderness in Montana where I live. I'm in the middle.

Look at the cool waterfall behind me. The lake (hidden behind me) is called "Lake at Falls" and has native golden trout in it:

quote:Originally posted by DrShaman

It seems that the information comes from a reliable source, but I think that it is
impossible that there have been lots of civilizations tens of thousands years old.
In that case, they would have left more trace. Why have archeologists found so
much stone age stuff but so little from these 50 000 year or more old civilizations?

Well, I don't think that archeologists have found all that much human stuff. How many dinosaurs lived out their lives during the millions(!) of years that they roamed the earth? Relative to this very, very large number, we've found only a small bit of remains. My personal view is that archeological research extrapolates far too much from the meager amount of info they have from fossils.

The other very important point I'd make is that all the major ancient civilizations were destroyed, often by violent natural disasters--not just the victims of crumbling and age. Lemuria first burned terribly by volcanic erruptions then sank into the ocean. Atlantis sank suddenly and violently very deep into the ocean. And this didn't happen all at once, it happened in stages, the mass of the continent shrinking with each bite. It's not that hard to imagine things getting pretty ground up and buried in such violent tectonic activity.

The following is a series of maps that were draw by clairvoyant researchers in the Theosophical Society. The info here agrees with a number of other sources that I'm familiar with. I'm sorry for the size but I think it will prove interesting to this discussion. The white outlines are the present day continents for reference sake. The dark outlines are the continental configurations of the indicated epochs:

quote:Originally posted by Lighthouse
This morning my daugher woke up and told us, "When grandpa VC died, he turned into a rainbow and now he knows who he really is."  Also, this afternoon when my mother in law was hysterically crying, she said, "Don't cry, Grandma... You can still feel grandpa VC, you just can't see him anymore."  

This is very interesting. Check out this picture:




It is an artists rendering of incarnate man and his relationship to his higher self. After the death of the body, the soul withdraws into the higher spiritual body depicted above surrounded by the causal body--which resembles a rainbow.

Your daughter probably got to visit grandpa in a dream and saw him as he is now.

Kerri, I'm with you--I've never been able to relate to grief at death. I have sympathy for those who feel a personal loss. But I don't feel the loss personally.

I myself have communicated with relatives and friends who have passed while I was asleep. They always seem to be very happy and satisfied with their new lives.

quote:Originally posted by DrShaman
Krishnamurti was a spirit that Leadbeater channeled, right? Often these spirits can make up a lot of fantastic stories that are not necessarily true.

No--I haven't heard of any channeling that Leadbeater did. He wrote and spoke from his own higher consciousness.

And when he was recording ancient historical events he read them directly from the Akashic records. He was probably one of the most highly developed clairvoyants of our modern times.

Krishnamurti was an Indian boy who Leadbeater and other elders of the movement found and helped train because they could see the maturity and advancement of his soul. He went on to eventually lead the Theosophical organization as its president.

This is what I've heard. I'm not in the Theosophical movement myself so this could be a little sketchy.

quote:Originally posted by bluejay

Thanks Boydster.

Let me get one thing clear though. I shouldn't start working on my primary centers yet, right? First work on drawing energy from arms and legs to the navel for about 3-6 months and then steadily and carefully start looking at the primary centers, heart, brow etc?

I would tend to agree with that as being a good idea.

I think the point of this is twofold:

1. The secondary circuit supports and nourishes the primary circuit. It's good to clear out the cobwebs there and to build a healthy more "high delivery rate" system first before going after the main  chakras.

2. You are also honing your faculty of concentration, attention and control of bodily functions. I've heard from people who rushed into chakra work and got themselves into weeks-long headaches and other problems, simply because they never bothered to learn to control the flow of energy in their body with the force of their will. Discipline is a great asset here.

After that, I'd probably tend to encourage you to work first with the heart and upper chakras a little more than those lower than the heart. I think there tends to be more effluvia in the lower chakras and the nature of it is sticky, difficult to control, lower-desire type stuff. I'd go slow with the lower chakras. But cleaning them out is definitely a good idea. Just pace yourself a little slower with them.

Good luck!!

I'd like to give you a mystical-sounding meditation for this but I don't really have one. I used brute force; repetition and will power.

It's really not much different than the NEW exercises that Robert Bruce gives. Tactile awareness and moving energy. The idea here though, is that the chakras can act like magnets, attracting and holding the spinal light/fluid according to either your uncontrolled passions or your self directed will.

The lower chakras tend to draw stored energy out of the base chakra in response to sexual passion, hunger, (desires) etc. in an animal-like subconscious way. There it can aggregate into pools of creative energy which gets imprinted with the vibration of the desire which one is fixating on if left for too long. An example of this might be when one has had a sexual fantasy or contact with another which leaves you really horny.

What I did was push with the tips of my four fingers into my sternum and concentrate all of my awareness there at my heart chakra. This tactile sensation and attention alone is aften enough to pull the energy up to the heart chakra where you will begin to feel a swelling sensation. But if you add to this the imagined sensation and visualization of the light rising quickly up the spinal channel you can hasten things still further.

After you've done this for a few weeks or maybe shorter, you will find that this energy has begun to elevate these upper etheric chakras you're working with into new levels of functionality and you will be able to feel them and use them at will for various activities. This allows you to simply concentrate on a chakra and make it magnetize the light up and into the chakra very quickly and hold it there indefinitely.

The chakras act like leakey capacitors so the energy does leak away eventually and you use some of it also. But the light seems to impart a gradual and permanent improvement in the functioning of the chakra also. It seems to be good to just draw the light in, concentrate on spinning the chakra very quickly, and increasing the frequency of the light until the chakra looks like a bright, shining gem. This clears effluvia away which we all tend to have, and it stimulates advanced capabilities.

If you do this continuously for a long time it seems to train your energy body to do this easily and habitually. There is a sustained release of this energy from the base chakra in all people. But for most, it stops at the lower chakras and soon creates a feeling of "gotta have sex". So it is expelled in sex or masturbation. I don't mean to imply that this is bad or something. It's up to everyone's free will what we do with this energy. But many people, if they understood what they are missing by not raising this light up and nurturing their upper chakras, would feel sheepish about just squirting it out so frequently and for so little gain. It just appears to me to be a more excellent investment of my resources to do as I've described.

I don't mean to imply that this is only for celibate people or that you can't mix it up. But there are those "in between" days in any healthy relationship in which it works great to switch to the above strategy.

Hope this helps.

quote:Originally posted by DrShaman

Did Leadbeater write anything on Atlantis? If he did, that would make me more inclined to believe that Atlantis existed, because I think he was one of the brighest and most reliable clairvoyants ever.
I think he's far more reliable than Cayce.

But Lemuria can't be true. A lost country in the pacific ocean 50 000 years ago? That's far too long ago and there's no geological evidence for that. There could maybe be a civilization in the pacific, but it can't be as old as that.

Have you read "The Lives of Alcyone"? It's an immense, highly informative two volume account of the 20 most influential lives of the soul of Krishnamurti. There are detailed (really!) accounts of his lives in fairly advanced civilizations going back to as far as  100,000 years ago.

It's by far the most breathtaking and revealing akashic readings that I've ever encountered. I believe that Annie Besant and Charles Leadbeater tag-teamed the thing and that it still probably took them a fairly long time to pull together.

I've only read the first of two volumes and there is only minimal references made or descriptions of Atlantis. But that is possibly because the first volume covers mostly his lives lived in earlier epochs.

They speak candidly about their methods of accessing the data, finding the important stuff, fixing dates and practical things like that. And for fixing dates, they say that they have established monumental milestones such as the various partial sinkings of Atlantis by actually counting the years while figuratively rewinding the timeline visually--a rather mind numbing and time consuming task. From those mile-markers they are able to navigate to events and fix dates with complete accuracy.

Now I really want to read the second volume...

quote:Originally posted by narfellus

How would one find "A Dweller on Two Planets"?

I have a couple of copies. I got them in used book stores in the "New Age" or "Spiritual" areas.

It's one of the most interesting books I've ever read. The first time I picked it up I couldn't put it down. Literally. I read the whole thing without stopping. Stayed up all night.

quote:Originally posted by BlackBox

Does anyone know if any 'good effects' come from keeping yourself away from ejaculating for long periods of time? Like I'm trying to keep my fluids (hence energy) in me right now since the Venus Transit is coming on Tuesday.

BUT! For men, this can be uncomfortable without release and only tension/buildup, so if anyone has any 'mature' [] comments on this, I would be most obliged.

Namaste.

I can only comment on my own experiences. I spent about 5 years single and celibate after my first marriage ended. I was in my mid twenties and had been married for 5 years and was very sexually active in that marriage. After the divorce, I entered into a very active, celibate spiritual life which included a lot of daily meditation and energy work.

I wondered at the time about this very question you ask. Since I was meditating a lot and was young at the time, there was a lot of energy racing around in my spine and main chakra system. And of course, if I placed my attention on the form of an attractive woman, the energy would quickly aggregate at my lower chakras and make me feel "ready to go". I realized that this might be a tough road, and so I decided to train myself to be able to reroute that energy up the spine into the heart and higher chakras at will and to hold it there indefinitely. It took a number of months of continuous practice at this but soon I had a strong, continuous momentum of the light going only up, not down the spine. And the effect was of creating a magnet in the upper hemisphere of the chakra system.

Thereafter, I noticed three things:

1. I could carry on an extended conversation with an attractive young woman, and in close proximity, and not once have a thought, visualization or desire regarding sex. Very odd sensation for a young man. I could clearly see it if SHE was having sexual thoughts, but for me it was a curious kind of unaffected, academic point of view.

2. Since I was celibate and did not engage in any self stimulation of any kind, my body settled down into a natural (for me) rhythm of what was REALLY NEEDED as far as healthy release of semen. This amounted to maybe 4 times per year. Mind you, this is not the result of repression of urges, I honestly didn't feel the desire or any physical pressure.

3. With most of this light energy, which would normally be expelled in sex, going into my upper chakras, I realized an amazing increase in pure intellectual ability. The mind becomes capable of far greater complexity and depth of analysis and creative thought.

I eventually got married again, but to a truly divine soul mate this time, and the above mentioned program got kind of shot to hell for a while. But I've continued with building upon the theme of raising this energy up into the crown and brow chakras even though not celibate, and I can say that continuous effort of any amount seems to bring continuous, permanent gain.

As an afterthought, I'll add that the chakra development this kind of activity feeds will also stimulate spiritual sensitivity and a greatly heightened ability to manipulate energy and astral matter.

This was my observations on the topic, specifially of witholding semen...your mileage will undoubtedly vary.

quote:Originally posted by bluejay

Thanks for the answer!

I have one question.. I hear people using brushing and sweeping the energy. Is it O.K if I use my own kind of method(don't know if this has been mentioned in the book). I use my awareness to move the energy. For example if I am concentrating on my feet I start to "think" that I move the energy and I follow the energy through my legs and into my navel center. And while in the navel center I focus on it for 1-2 seconds and go back to my feet or to my hands. Does this sound O.K? Or do I have to use a sweeping/brushing action? []

What you describe is a lot like what I do. Seems to work great for me. I do that while watching the tube after work and it takes only about 10 minutes before I start to feel the accumulation of energy in my subnaval area. Feels like I need to pee or something.

After I really get a momentum going I can just center my awareness on my abdomen and hold a vacuum-like sensation. Then the energy streams in from both hands and feet and capacity fills very quickly.

It's like you boil down the action into something as simple as sucking koolaid up a straw and into your mouth.....you have no thought for the discreet actions involved.

Runlola, thanks for sharing the medalion article!

Has anyone ever read the occult classic, "A Dweller on Two Planets"? It was dictated to a young man near the end of the 19th century by an advanced, discarnate being named Phylos. It includes, in novel form, a very detailed account of Phylos' last two lives--one on Atlantis around 13,000 BC, and another in California in the early 1800's.

My point is that the details of this account of his Atlantean life closely correlates with most of the akashic readings by Leadbeater, Besant and others in the Theosophical writings. In addition to this, while reading the material, deep, soul stirring memories were unearthed within me of my own experiences there.

Also, many, many people have been hypnotically regressed for various reasons and they relate details of lives they lived on Atlantis as well as Lemuria and even earlier epochs. The accounts generally agree with each other and the previously mentioned sources quite well.

I think the answer is yes, drugs do cause harm to the spiritual bodies as well as the physical body.

But many people have been through what you have and by persevering with the spiritual exercises you mention, they succeed at healing the damage and coming out as very happy, fulfilled people.

Stick with it--it's worth it.[]

[nor have we even discussed my own knowledge on the subject]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

I apologise Boydster.  I questioned you and your (still) unqualified statement that homosexuals "suffer in a number of debilitating ways" as a direct result of their sexual orientation, when it appears you are apparently a psycho-energetic Medium Guru of unprecedented caliber.  You even make the passivley aggressive implication that the basis of my comments are simply PC!  You have humbled me sir.  You have shamed me.  You haven't answered my points, nor have we even discussed my own knowledge on the subject, but you know you know better (prejudice) and never account for a persons outer appearence (bias), so actually sorting out particulars obviously isn't for the likes of one as high as yourself.

Perhaps I will find some real dialog with some of the other plebians, others more on my level.

No Kiauma, I haven't seen anything in your posts of your knowledge on the subject. I haven't seen any point, counterpoint, no scientific discussion at all; I read your posts over and over and mostly all I see is an opinion you have about me personally. What I keep seeing is your speculation and analysis of my reasons for posting what I have. You used the actual words, "prejudiced" (twice) and "biased", along with a rather transparent attempt to lump me in with racists.

Do you have anything of substance to say on the subject? Why don't you enlighten me? Oh, also, my comments had nothing to do with the social aspects of homosexuality. My two main comments were:

1.That sexual preference can form as a result of habits and momentums carried over from past lives while inhabiting a series of bodies of a single gender.

2.Sex between people of the same gender resembles (clairvoyantly, to me) pushing the positive ends of two magnets together--there is a repulsion effect in the energetic structures which alters the flow of spiritual light energy, and can cause problems in physical organs and systems which correspond to these lower chakras involved.

I would add that I think oral sex as well as anal sex between anyone, hetero or gay, causes similar problems also. And one more thing which I left out originally because I was concerned with provoking an explosion, is that these activities all involve the light stored in the base chakra, the light of creation. And esoterically, this light and the structure involved are directly linked to the immune system.

In an honest attempt to avoid having this topic run over a cliff again, I did NOT SAY that gays are beyond redemption (your words and disparaging implication)(redemption from what???), I did NOT SAY that all gay sex instantly causes immune system problems. I've never used or implied the concepts of right or wrong, good or bad. In case you thought I did, read what I wrote again. Please!

Kiauma, if you'd really like to discuss these (specific) two ideas then I'm interested in hearing your knowledge on the subject. If you again devolve into berating me personally, then I'm pretty much done with this thread. It's up to you.

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

I apologise Boydster.  I questioned you and your (still) unqualified statement that homosexuals "suffer in a number of debilitating ways" as a direct result of their sexual orientation, when it appears you are apparently a psycho-energetic Medium Guru of unprecedented caliber.  You even make the passivley aggressive implication that the basis of my comments are simply PC!  You have humbled me sir.  You have shamed me.  You haven't answered my points, nor have we even discussed my own knowledge on the subject, but you know you know better (prejudice) and never account for a persons outer appearence (bias), so actually sorting out particulars obviously isn't for the likes of one as high as yourself.

Perhaps I will find some real dialog with some of the other plebians, others more on my level.

Kiauma,

Obviously I can't prove anything to anyone by typing something on a keyboard. We're all expressing opinions here. It's the nature of a forum. It's implicit, or did I miss something? If some guy says, "I had my first OBE last night!!", do you say, "prove it"?

Everything that I've expressed here on this subject is a product of my personal observations and interior reflexion, not medical studies, not polls, no proof. As to answering your challenges, I did the best I could. If I failed, then sorry.

I would point out though that everyone involved is pretty even keeled except you. Your last couple of posts resembled emotion-filled personal attacks.

quote:Originally posted by runlola



Could a homosexual who looks & acts very much like the opposite sex also have the charka activity of the gender they identify with? Wouldn't their minds influence their chakra activity? I have known some healthy homosexuals who seem to be the happiest people I have ever met. Why do you think they call it Gay?

Physical matter is certainly pliable and subject to our wills. Yes, the way we think affects our physical/energetic structure, for sure.

But even with gender changing operations there are still some things which are probably not changed. For instance, the energy channels along the spine are arranged differently in men and women. With men the Ida starts at the left of Sushumna (at the base chakra) and the Pingala on the right. From there they proceed upward in a distinctly ordered interwoven spiral up to the crown chakra. In women, the position is reversed, which makes for a different polarity. It seems doubtful that this type of basic circuitry can change very easily. And these kinds of structures do have an effect on our outer lives, our organs and glands and such.

As for whether gay people are happy or compassionate or whatever, I agree with you. I have personal friends who are gay and they are beautiful souls.

Please don't think that I'm trying to assert that gay people are all sick or sinful or somethinglike that. That's not my point at all.

I read an ongoing discussion where some people were discussing this issue. I felt that since this is a forum for ideas that I'd add my own. And I welcome debate.

quote:Originally posted by runlola

Boydster: "Homosexual sex appears to me to be kind of like pushing the positive ends of two magnets together instead of a positive and a negative. There is a repulsion effect which is overcome by the internal passions of those involved and a thrill is definitely experienced. In the long term though, I think it messes up the energy fields of those involved and they suffer in a number of debilitating ways."

In this case, I believe Boydster is referring to homosexual sex being experienced between two people who are actually heterosexuals. According to the book "Hands of Light" written by a psychic healer who can see the aura, women & men have different chakra activity that complements each other during sex and is very healthy for the energy body.

I don't see homosexuals and heterosexuals as being different. What I see are souls incarnated in bodies for the purpose of learning opportunities. And all of us souls are constantly making decisions. And there are consequences for every decision. We all have the same basic goal, reunion with our higher self and greater opportunities for growth and creative expression.

That said, my comments about gay love-making were meant to be a dispassionate description of the basic energy/physics of the phenomenon. I didn't mean it to be a commentary on rightness or wrongness.

As Runlola mentioned, men and women's physical/energetic bodies, the temporary housing for the soul, are different from each other, they are complementary, ergo my metaphor of the positive and negative ends of magnets and their behavior in proximity. We are made that way. Like it or not.

But people are much more than just the sum of their bodies, their animal passions and desires. There is the soul in there. And it's quite possible, actually common, for a soul to feel out of step with her surroundings, family, social status or sexual situation. This is because we jump from body to body, situation to situation in the process called reincarnation. So far, have I said anything un-PC? Hope not.

So the soul is the captain of the ship more or less. And if the soul decides, before birth, to change from being a male after 6 times in a row of being male, to a female, and then has a hard time adjusting to her own decision, does that sound a little bit like how some gay people describe their lives and their feelings?

As for the issue of gay sex, the body and energetic structures still are what they are. When two people of the same sex put their genitals together there isn't a very good match, physically or energy/polarity-wise. It doesn't mean that those two souls don't love each other, or that they can't be happy together. But energetically speaking, the activity of the chakras and their anchor points and influence in the physical body get eroded over time instead of the intended refreshment and complimentary activity noted in hetero bonding. It's like pushing an organ or body part to do something it was not designed to do--erosion and failure can happen, depending on the frequency of occurance and the overall vibrancy of the organism. I don't think it matters, as Runlola asked, whether the people involved are self defined gay or not--I see only souls inhabiting bodies experiencing the results of their decision. I don't see right or wrong unless someone without a choice is being harmed.

So now how am I doing on the PC scale?? Honestly, I'm just describing what I see.

As an aside, to tie this all in with the original post of this thread, I see the Catholic church as having a lot of problems. Calling people evil is a serious thing which I usually reserve for murderers and such. I think the institution still has to go on and do it duty to those who follow that path. But they need to fix their internal problems before they start legislating morality.

[I think]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

"Homosexual sex appears to me to be kind of like pushing the positive ends of two magnets together instead of a positive and a negative. There is a repulsion effect which is overcome by the internal passions of those involved and a thrill is definitely experienced. In the long term though, I think it messes up the energy fields of those involved and they suffer in a number of debilitating ways."

Or, Boydster, it could be one of many otherwise benign and meanigless conditions that presents situations to allow others to expose their own rationalized prejudices - but hey, I'm just 'thinking' here too. []

Kiauma,

I can only give you my word; I have no axe to grind here. And, as you noticed, I carefully worded my statement as an opinion.

That said, my opinion is based on direct observation, not academic speculation. I'm not sure what you hoped to do with those links you published. I explored them all fairly thoroughly, and it would appear that you may have perceived me to have implied that gays are all soulless sinners who have no desire for or understanding of higher consciousness or constructive activities. I can assure you that I do not think that way.

When I meet a person for the first time and get to know them during a conversation, I see first a soul. I see that souls motivations in life, his burdens, his skills, his weaknesses. Next I begin to take note of the conditions which this particular soul is experiencing in this life, in this body and social situation they are currently in. I get grief from my wife and friends because after such an encounter, I'm completely clueless as far as that persons clothes, hair or eye color, nationality, etc., all the outer stuff is kind of lost on me, other than how those things reflect in the self image of that soul.

My point is that I'm quite beyond the kind of shallow, biased perspective you may be mistaking me for indulging in. As I said, I have no axe to grind with any group, except possibly with those who are wantonly destructive, such as organized crime, satanists or pedophiles who hurt and destroy children, etc... My goal in life is to help others find their highest spiritual path and to find peace and happiness.