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12 January 2021

Out of body experience - astral projection - lucid dream

Started off a bevy of strange and mostly nonsensical experiences this morning by projecting from a dream. Was dreaming that I was sorta flying around a bit. For whatever reason, while in the dream I said some words - they were a few syllabus strung together, I think four of them, each one monosyllabic. I don't know why, I think I was just experimenting. I saw what looked like a phoenix appear - like a majestic, flaming bird. It was visible only for a moment or two, then vanished again. Oddly, the sky turned dark and it began to rain. I thought this was weird, and also figured, heck, I seem to be in a position where I can project from here, I am not enjoying this rain business, so let's blow this pop stand!

I started saying my usual command, until I felt myself finally start to float up, and began to move. I seemed to be moving through some vastly large indoor space. I saw what looked like an elderly woman popping wheelies on a bike. Hmmm. Further on, there were lots of rooms, with people doing various activities. I don't know why but I got the sense of it being part of the afterlife somehow. I asked if it was the afterlife, and my helper said yes. I said I thought the afterlife would be outdoors, like in a beautiful forest, and asked if there were any of this that was outdoors, and was told again, yes. All the activities people were doing were things that they didn't get to do in their lives. Maybe due to fear or circumstance. I guess that explains the little old lady who was popping wheelies LOL

I figured, well, I've never asked to see any of my deceased relatives before, so if I'm here, why not? I put out that intention and saw what seemed to be my grandmother. It looked like she was part of some kinda sewing circle or whatever. She seemed happy, came over and hugged me and said "I'm so glad you're here!" I hugged her and cried.

I came to, and altho I felt drained, exhausted, and just wanted to fall asleep and/or have another experience, forced myself to write down my notes. Then, when that was done, I slipped into a very strange, nonsensical encounter with someone who said she was a blogger about chronic illness. She said I needed to "help her figure out X" (I FORGET WHAT IT WAS!) "and the woman will take you somewhere else," i.e., my helper will take me elsewhere once I help the blogger figure out whatever she wanted me to help her figure out. As usual I became obsessed with trying to make contact with another human being who was projecting, which I assumed this was (probably not), and asked her for her name. She said "Avenue" (odd), and I asked what her website was, and she said "oil booms", and that her website/blog was "old".

Well, none of that seems coherent, so I looked up what oil booms are, and they're those floating containment apparatuses that are used in oil spills. Like you see those orange floating barriers that try to keep the oil spill from spreading further. That's what those are. Strange.

Anyway, took down my notes, and laid down for my next experience which took place at a school for the blind. It was K-8th grade. As I found this all very confusing, I decided to ask exactly what the hell I was supposed to be paying attention to. As in, what am I supposed to learn or get out of this? Because it's really not clear to me what this experience is supposed to mean to me or do for me. The response was that I needed to pay attention to organizational stuff: like the walkways, the bulletin boards, what kind of notices could be put on those boards, things like that.

No idea what this was about, that's all I could remember. I came to, wrote down sleepy notes, and laid back down. I have no idea what I saw next, my notes ONLY say "mission has to do with anticipating what others need." That's all I wrote down for the next experience. So I think what happened is that I was having some strange experience, and I flat-out asked whatever helper was present to give me some clarity about what I was supposed to learn, or what my mission is, etc.

So that's all I got from that, I wrote down that one sentence, and laid back down (this was a very exhausting morning!). Wound up having another experience. There was a woman, and I wrote down her name as "Justyn" - very interesting, but I was told that she operated on my 2nd chakra, in a sense *removing* something. As if she removed the chakra itself. So this is was that last experience from a few days ago was about. It's possible I flat-out asked, Hey, WTF was up with that. I don't know what the conversation was that led to being told this. I got the sense that what happened last time was only Step 1 of, at minimum, a two-step process: the removing of something, and then putting something back still needed to happen.

At this point, I was pretty excited about this because I seemed to be getting good clarifying information about something that happened, so naturally I wanted to basically stay there forever and learn as much as I could, but felt myself lose focus and slip away, came to and took notes - unable, at this point, to project again.

Word up Lumaza! I listen to old-school shamanic drumming when I journey, like these:

https://www.shamanism.org/products/audio.html#7

The one I tend to use is the one with "multiple drumming" at the very bottom. I also really like the double-drumming, towards the top (2nd track from the top). Super simple can be very effective!

Whoa, I can't believe I never tried that! I am finding some eerily similar results!

The magic of google!! lol so glad it's helping you put some of the pieces together =) One quote that I've heard (I don't recall the original source, and I'm adlibbing a bit) is that you think your spirit guides have given you some kinda super unique ritual (for example), and then you learn that the Hoobydooby tribe of West Claymore have been doing that for 10,000 years. The power of that is that it's a great way to crowdsource information about what we see and experience! I kinda hate the internet, but it sure is a helpful resource.

I'm a bit out of the loop and have no idea what you're talking about re: your Sufi friend, but since you had the intent to connect with this Sufi, and you saw a mosaic pattern (my impression is you had never seen it before?) you might want to do some googling to see if you recognize the pattern. Like even just googling "sufi" + "mosaics" will get you a lot of hits. Maybe you'll see something that looks like it, and then you can read about it and learn about its significance.

EV, I'm curious if when you realized the scary experiences, like the veggie chopper, were actually healing opportunities (and thus, you decided to take advantage of them) - what happened as a result? Did healing actually happen? E.g., you had chronic migraine every day for 20 years and then you submitted to the veggie chopper and Lo! No more migraine. Or some other thing that shows that the experience was actually healing because it changed something for the better? You may have talked about this elsewhere on the forum so forgive my shoddy memory!

In your case, I would even point to the metaphor or the symbolism- You are challenged with communicating and getting across your message to the NPR. So you get a healing LD or an experience that leads to an operation on your throat...a tracheotomy possibly. There is a chakra associated with the throat and it has a link to communication within the NPR...hmmm...

This is a very interesting catch. I hadn't thought that this might have something to do with communication. A very, very interesting possible tie-in with some information the shaman/channeler/energy worker recently told me about my mission (the one I know, not the one you know). It's such an obvious potential connection I'm shaking my head I didn't see it! Leave it to EV to point out all the important stuff =)

26 Dec 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection - lucid dream

I was dreaming, realized that I had an opportunity, because I was then in the right state to project, and I needed to take advantage of it. I asked to be taken to my spirit guides. Didn't really seem like I got an immediate response, I was just sorta floating there with my eyes closed, waiting. I started yelling (mentally) "TAKE ME TO MY SPIRIT GUIDES." Over and over, insisting. Ain't taking no for an answer! Finally, I felt myself start to move/rotate in the air, and head off in some particular direction.

I wound up in some sort of scary death warehouse. Not really, but I don't really know how to describe it. It was just the vibe. It seemed almost like someone took a warehouse and tried to turn it into a haunted house. I told myself not to be scared. I kept thinking, Take me to my spirit guides, over and over. I didn't have a usual helper carry me along. Instead, I started floating through a cavernous hallway. I think someone shushed me and told me to be quiet, not sure why. I floated thru the warehouse quietly, not recognizing the random people I saw/passed, until I floated into what appeared to be a sparse scary death classroom (as it were, in keeping with the theme of someone trying to make a classroom kinda scary). A desk with someone sitting at it, working, and chairs for student type people. There were a few "students" in the chairs. The "teacher" woman sitting at the desk was petite and had short brown hair, relatively young looking. And, I recognized her! I called out to her that I knew her, I'd seen her before. I always get excited when I'm projecting and I see someone who I think I've encountered before. She looked up at me and responded, somewhat sternly (and maybe with a little surprise), "You're not supposed to be here."

I mean, thanks for the warm reception.

I was kinda like, Well, OK, I know, but I need help and I'm still in the dark about what I'm supposed to do. What are my next steps?!

She and I left the classroom together and "walked" down the hallway, tho it was really more like I was floating randomly and a bit haphazardly beside her, still not being carried, or even locomoting myself. I didn't have full control over the floating. I asked her many questions, first and foremost was, What is my mission? What's the next thing I'm supposed to do, like right now? I'm pretty sure she responded something like, "Do You Hear It?" Like, that was the title of my mission, I think, which makes no sense to me.

Thanks, spirit guide.

She said many more things, most of which I cannot remember, tho I surely tried. It seemed like she said something about the Sisters from Ireland (religious Sisters), as she herself morphed into an older woman, and something about an abortion and the blood that came from it. Not sure. But it seemed like there was a lot of information about the blood and something about the blood was important. Didn't seem to relate to anything else and I don't remember the rest of the conversation surrounding it.



4 January 2021

Out of body experience - astral projection - quasi-lucid dream

THERE WAS A LOT IN THIS ONE!

I started off having a dream, but it was one of those dreams where I thought it was happening in real life. I dreamed that I was laying on my back in some sort of auditorium space with other people, we were all watching something (e.g., a movie, a performance); I was laying there with my eyes closed, and was slipping into the right "state" where I could project. However, nobody knew that, they thought I was just resting or maybe napping. I decided that even tho I was in a public place and there were lots of people around, I should take this opportunity to project. I figured I'd be "back" before anyone tried to rouse me or thought something was wrong. So I was partly lucid in the sense that I was aware of who I was and what I wanted to do, but I didn't realize that I was actually dreaming at the time, I thought that my dream was actually happening.

Anyway, so I project from this dream that I didn't realize was a dream. I decide to say my usual, Take me where I need to go, tell me what I need to know - rather than demand to be taken directly to my spirit guides since apparently, as I was told last time, I wasn't supposed to be there. I slowly start to feel myself floating along. This time I had a helper, there was a woman who accompanied me along the way, we seemed to move down a hallway, and perhaps through a wall/door or two. She was telling me things along the way and of course I don't remember - except for ONE, VERY IMPORTANT THING she said that I do recall. She told me I would meet "A-." - this is the name I use to designate my "main guide" that I encounter on my shamanic journeys. I've wondered this whole time why I don't ever see anything that looks like them when I leave my body!! I recently (a couple weeks ago or so) had a channeling session with someone I've worked with before, and the guide who showed up said that "A" had been a mentor to us both (me and the guide), who taught us both; "A" was higher up, as it were, to me and the guide who showed up during the channeling session. Anyway, at first I didn't realize who she was referring to! Then I was like, "A., my guide from the shamanic journeys?!" (or something like that) and she indicated, yes! I was very excited at the prospect of experiencing my first "crossover" between the shamanic journeys and my out of body experiences!!!

We wound up outside. There was a grassy field/lawn, it was sunny out. There was a group of people/entities sitting in chairs that was gathered and appeared to be there for me, or waiting for me. I scanned the group for something that looked like A. I didn't see anything that looked exactly like him, but I did see something that appeared humanoid and didn't have a head. In this manifestation, however, instead of having feathers come up out of the neck, there were flowers - like a bouquet of flowers. I didn't get too good a look at the group, but as I was floating by and scanning with my "eyes", I thought well, that could be him? It's the only headless humanoid I can see, so...

I had some trouble controlling my body. Like my last experience, I was sort of floating along, rather than experiencing myself "walking" with energy legs. There also seemed to be some force sucking or pulling me away from the gathering, back in the direction I'd come. I clutched ahold of the grass with my hands to not be pulled away. I'm pretty sure I called out to the group for assistance. They seemed to be guides, or otherwise entities who were on my side and there to help me. Two people, who seemed male, helped me and held me steady, floating above the ground, as I was on my back. They seemed unfamiliar to me. One of them told me that we'd do the "last Time Phase" to "learn my fate for the internship." I asked, "The one [internship] I'm doing right now?" He said, yes.

The fact that he said we'd do the "last" Time Phase indicated to me that we've done this [a Time Phase] before, and this would be the last one. I took "Time Phase" to be phasing into the future - essentially, getting a vision of something that would happen in the future. In my state of projecting, I interpreted internship literally, as if I were literally doing an internship in real life, and that I would learn something relevant to how that would end up and thus what the point/end result/my mission of the internship was - conveniently ahead of time. However, I'm not in an internship in my real life. I don't know whether this is more symbolic of where I am in my energetic growth or if it does pertain to something more literal about some project of my life (e.g., I recently had an idea to offer guided shamanic journeys to groups for free until the pandemic ends).

Anyway, the entity who was telling me this put a bracelet on my left wrist. He said that I could take it off whenever I wanted the Time Phase to end; taking it off would take me back to where I was. The other entity, which was on my right hand side, put a ring on one of my fingers on my right hand - either my pointer or middle finger, but I think it was my pointer. I was told not to lose this ring. It was important to make sure it stayed on my finger. Also, I got the sense that this last Time Phase had to happen before I could meet/speak directly with "A" (at least, in an out of body experience!).

As the Time Phase began, I was held by these two beings that seemed male, and I was held with what felt like care, attentiveness, and love. I felt calm. The Time Phase process began with my right leg, or rather my energy right leg, floating up and moving up and down, side to side, in weird ways. This "moving around" of my right energy leg felt familiar, and I thought to myself, "This same thing with my right leg happened last time, so that must have been a Time Phase, too." (but I don't think so?)

So, where did my Time Phase take me? Well, I opened my eyes and it appeared like I was laying on my back in the crowded auditorium that I thought I was in, in real life. There were medical personnel around me. They put something around my neck. I got the impression they were trying to do a tracheotomy. I thought to myself, Do they think I'm dying? Do they think I'm unconscious? Are they trying to resuscitate me? That is to say: I thought that I was having a vision of the future ("Time Phase") of what would happen in my very near future, because I thought my actual physical body was laying in this public place with other people, and because I was in some degree of trance (projecting) it's possible that the people I was with couldn't rouse me and thought something was wrong, and therefore called 911 (of course, I was actually laying in my bed at home the whole time!). But during this projection, I thought I was getting a peek into the future that people would think something was wrong with me medically, because I was super tranced out in a projection; furthermore, to make this weirder, this was supposed to be a peek into the future of how my "internship" would end up. In the dream I projected from (which, again, I didn't realize was a dream), I think I actually was *in* an internship; but when I projected (from the dream that I didn't realize was a dream) and was told this, I didn't think it was in reference to the dream, I thought it had to do with my actual life. Of course, I thought the dream was my actual life, so this gets complicated. This is starting to feel like the screenplay for Inception 2!

Anyway, I knew I was in a Time Phase, and so I knew I wasn't actually under a resuscitation attempt. No one was actually trying to trach my throat. Still, I thought it would be best to "signal" to the medical personnel, even if it was a Time Phase, that I wasn't unconscious/dying. I tried moving my tongue, opening my eyes, to signal, Uh, no, hello, I'm here. I continued trying to stay calm and to indicate I'm neither dead nor dying, so I could continue in the Time Phase to learn the fate/point of my "internship" - unless the fate/point of my "internship" was...me dying? Me almost dying?  

However, there was something that began to seem violent about it; something didn't feel OK, like I actually couldn't trust these medical personnel. Eventually, one of them asked for the "keys", and I interpreted that as something that would lock me in place or trap/keep me there, so at that point I decided to do what I was told I could do: remove the bracelet on my left wrist so I could go back to where I was before. I expected to be taken back to the sunny grassy field/lawn where my spirit guides/helpers were. To remove the bracelet I had to use my right hand to grab the bracelet on my left. Problem was that I was being restrained and held down in some way. So I needed a distraction, to get them looking in another direction so I could quickly free my right arm to rip off the bracelet. Bizarrely, what I yelled was that there was an alligator "over there" in the other direction. They all looked, and I tore my right hand free to remove the bracelet, and in that frantic action I woke up.

So I have no idea what exactly my "internship" referred to, nor do I understand how what I experienced in the "Time Phase" (this fast-forward vision of people thinking I was dead/dying and medical personnel trying to resuscitate me, and then this turning sinister and me feeling like maybe they weren't there to help me and I needed to get away) has to do with the "my fate" for the internship. Does that mean that "my fate" is that I will have a severe medical crisis at some point and people will have to try to revive me on the scene? That's terrifying. I don't know what this means. In the moment of being told I'd learn "my fate for the internship" I interpreted it along the lines of what the point or mission for the internship is. Definitely scratching my head over this one!

Woah, very cool orb experience! Sounds very powerful!

OK just a quick sec before I attempt to sleep, to clarify what I meant by "not trying" - Right now I'm sitting here at my desk, and if I "try" to project it's not going to happen. I'm not at the point where I can just decide I want to do it "now", and within short order get out. So, that first experience I described, I was not "actively trying" in that moment. I woke up to the process *already happening* and all I had to do was stay calm, go with it, and not get in the way. I woke up to the train already leaving the station, ya know? I just had to hang on and let it take me for a ride. But the reason that happened (and continued happening) was because I spent the whole week prior setting aside a good chunk of time in my day to do my verbal affirmations with as much conviction as I could muster. I clearly affirmed my intent, my desire, my will, my focus, etc, out loud to my higher self and any other guides or helpers who are out there that this is what I want, I'm ready for this. That's a different kind of "trying" I think - and it was critically important for this shift in my life to happen. And for full disclosure, yes sometimes it does indeed take a bit more "effort/trying" in the moment to have a successful exit. I certainly remember once I managed to get all my energy limbs free, and I'm basically floating completely above my body except for...my darn left foot, which helpfully managed to get itself "stuck" in my physical body. Hurmph. I had to rotate around in the air in all sortsa weird ways to wriggle that sucker outta there LOL

I'd like to 2nd the part where Nameless suggests intentional verbal self-talk! Affirmations are surprisingly powerful. I think this is what helped get the whole ball rolling for me when I made the decision this was something I wanted to experience. From what I've read, affirmations need to be positive and in the present tense. E.g., instead of saying something like "I won't have any trouble leaving my body," which uses the (negative) word "won't" and is in the future tense, you would say, "I easily leave my body" = present tense and positive (no negatives like won't, can't, don't, blah blah). Speak out loud in a deep resonant voice, every day, with the feeling of gratitude like what you're saying *is already happening* and you're just grateful and *affirming* this thing that is *already happening*. You could pick a certain amount of time, like 10 minutes, 15 minutes, half hour, etc., and speak the affirmation out loud for that time period every single day until you feel like it's "kicked in", as it were. When I started my affirmations, I had a big flash-bang AP probably in only about 6 or 7 days after starting the affirmations. Full on vibrations, energy limbs floating loose, the works. I wasn't even "trying" to get out in that particular moment - I had fallen asleep, and woke up with a start by the crazy vibrations! Like, huh? whaa--OMG it's happening! I was honestly surprised that affirmations were so effective! Give it a whirl =) It may be really helpful for you, too!

Ahhh thanks! I'll try to make it next week =)

Just found this thread! I'm interested in trying =) Is it still happening every week?

Tides - Well, remember that we're "conscious" when we're projecting in a way that we're not when "just dreaming", which is why it's easier to remember - but, still difficult, of course! I forget far more than I'd like. That's why it's important to have pen/paper next to your bed so you can immediately write down everything you can as soon as you're up. Also, after I've written everything down that I can remember right away, I lay there and sit holding the pad and pen and just think over the whole experience, because often little bits that I'd forgotten will come back to me, and then I can quickly jot those down, too =)

Lumaza, thanks for pointing me to those experiences! In one of them I think you (or someone??) posted a link to Bruce Moen's talk about getting information through "imagination/visualization" and I thought it was spot on. It's very similar to what it's like getting information about/for a client during a shamanic journey. There's that tug of "am I making this up?" followed by "well, let's just go with it and trust that there's something legit here".

Very interesting, EV! I don't think I've come across that on this site yet. Well if anyone out there is reading this and had a similar experience, send me a link to your post about it! Would love to read =) And, you mean (if I follow you correctly) that the different ways we perceive Non-Physical Reality is something we each agreed to ahead of time, upon coming into this lifetime? Yeah, I wouldn't mine sneaking a peak at mine, either!

Well, sort of LOL you can scroll back up to my entries of 3 July and 31 August. They weren't particularly robust attempts. And, it's most likely that whatever I was talking to were not actual humans projecting at that time!

10 Dec 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection

Was dreaming. Became lucid and decided to project as soon as I realized I was dreaming. Said my usual - take me where I need to go, teach/tell me what I need to know. Usually that's all it takes, and I feel myself float, turn/rotate this or that way, and start floating/moving in a particular direction. But nothing seemed to happen! It seemed like I needed to do more to "get out", as it were. I was pondering this and it seemed almost like I began to experience sleep paralysis. There was lots of strange noise which, at the time in my altered state, I thought sounded like scraping metal. I stayed calm and tried troubleshooting/thinking through the problem, because this "glitch" had never happened before. I decided to try the "roll out" method. I rotated myself slowly, so instead of laying flat on my back I was moving to be up on my right side. It's odd how in that altered state, I still always wonder, Am I moving just my energy body, or my physical body? Because I don't want to somehow "wake myself up"! Anyway, that seemed to work. I started rolling out and I think I experienced the "spinning" sensation. I increased the feeling of that perception, and resumed thinking my usual Ask/Command, until I finally felt myself turn in the air and float off somewhere.

I wound up in something that looked like a somewhat ramshackle office. Lots of stuff everywhere, not super tidy. There was a man at the desk and there was a window behind him. He wanted me to sign some sort of contract or agreement or waiver of some sort, for whatever level of Non Physical Reality. Like, basically, stuff like "I promise not to wreck the place" or whatever. It's a contract/agreement stating things that shouldn't (and won't) do, like I can't needlessly destroy their property - as it were. The guy's name, weirdly, was something like Hopscotch. I told him I'd probably forget, and he said "It doesn't matter." The contract he showed me of course wasn't any discernible language. It looked mostly pictorial, with strange dots and lines and markings and drawings, but it didn't look sophisticated. It looked like a child drew it, honestly.

I asked him to go over the scenarios with me (like, the main things I'm agreeing to), so I know what I'm signing.

The only one I remember going over with him was kinda what I mentioned above - you can't needlessly destroy stuff. Like, there was a tall filing cabinet, and the concept was conveyed to me through the idea of randomly knocking it over. But, if there's a *good reason* to knock excrement over, then it's OK. Like (and this makes no sense, but whatever) what if the only spot of cell phone reception is right behind the filing cabinet, and you *need* to knock it over in order to access that one spot? Then it's alright. That seemed to be the gist of it.

When we were reviewing the contract together, a female employee walked in, and brought three people into a side waiting area. Two younger women, one older man. I remember looking over at them, especially the younger women, and thinking to myself, I wonder if those are real humans who are projecting right now! I want to go talk to them so we can swap email addresses to contact each other! But then I was like, Wait, don't get distracted, focus!

Anyway, then the older man came over to the desk where the guy was going over the contract with me, and he tried talking to the person who'd been helping me before he was actually done helping me. I stood their waiting to see how this would play out. At this point I lost my focus and was back in my body. Never actually signed on the dotted line! Sometimes it seems like right before somet objective "completes", I get booted. Like, Oh I'm supposed to sign this contract --- aaaaand I'm booted. Or, Oh, I'm supposed to eat this medicinal leaf -- aaaaaand booted. I wonder if that final act of completion (actually signing the contract, actually eating the leaf) is truly *necessary*, or if once we cognize "the thing that they want us to do", we don't actually have to do the thing anymore. I'm guessing we do actually have to Do/Complete The Thing, but I'm still scratching my head why, in some cases, right when that thing is going to happen, poof! It's over.

Hello Tides!

Thank you for sharing some of your experiences. I enjoyed reading this. What did you mean by 'zeroing in effect'? I also find that lying on my back makes it more likely that I'll have an experience. One thing I will mention is that when you describe trying to talk with these entities, it's easier/faster to not try to communicate "verbally/vocally/with voice or sound" but rather telepathically. You can think your message to them, and they'll get it. It takes much less effort. I can definitely relate to that feeling of being drunk, where you can't see straight, move straight, or talk straight! Sometimes I find myself "voicing" my messages and then remembering, Oh, I don't have to do it this way, I can just think it and that'll be easier and faster. It's funny how we often default to "embodied human" means of doing things even tho we're definitely not "embodied" Out There!

I've been thinking about your post this afternoon, EV, and while doing so I remembered another detail. When my helper said there was something not good/bad/black on my teeth and indicated that she wanted to remove it, I said to her: Just don't hurt me. Obviously, I was remembering that fun time when I was electrocuted, and the last experience before this when I found myself in some weird Cloud Coocoo Land of black and gray electric signals and something passing through me that felt....wrong.

It's interesting to me that both of our experiences involved dental work. The teeth and mouth are a fraught (dream) symbol for so many people.

So yes, it's possible that because I was clearly skittish about something bad happening to me, given the other 2 times, there was a fear element involved. I hope that this is all it was. Next time, I hope I have my wits about me more and can ask for clarification, as you say - but we all know my track record of getting answers when I ask questions! LOL

That's a great list, Lumaza. My favorite was when this or that limb "detatched" and floated straight up, and then I just had to get the rest of me out LOL As things progressed for me, it was less vibrations + energy limb gets loose, and more the sensation of everything spinning. And I could increase or accelerate that spinning sensation to sort of "whirl" myself fully out. Then things progressed to where I realized I could project from a lucid dream - so there are no sensations at all! Kinda miss all that. Maybe as my journey continues, my exit experience will change again.

Grizzytaz,

I'm a relative newcomer here and also relatively new to projecting (only really started happening 7 months ago in earnest). In the beginning, there were lots of the classic "exit" sensations, like vibrations. The more I did it, the sensations became less intense, to the point where they don't really happen at all for me anymore, and I actually miss all those trappings of the experience! So I know it may seem scary for you right now, but there may come a day where it's old hat to you, you slip out without all this fuss and muss, and you actually miss this interesting kinesthetic phenomenon!

6 Dec 2020

Out of body experience - lucid dream - astral projection?

Was being carried along, and then my helper and I stopped, she seemed to look at my teeth. There was either a shadow or something dark on part of one of my teeth (top of mouth, slightly off center). She tried to clean it off, because whatever it was, wasn't a good thing that was supposed to be there. Whatever it was, in the act of trying to get it off my tooth for me, it got on her. Then everything started to tilt, like we were on a ship that was sinking head first. Something was wrong, at this point, something bad - like she and her good power/energy was neutralized by whatever the dark thing was that was on my tooth, making her powerless and effectively making her disappear. Then, an evil creature, like an incubus, or demon, or whatever it was, showed up. Kinda looked like the Balrog as depicted in LOTR. One large hand placed on my chest, the other I'm not sure, maybe underneath on my back. I think it was saying things, whatever it was doing it wasn't good. I started saying a Hail Mary, because this thing was bad and I needed help/to be rescued - and my little helper was not capable of being there or trying to help me at this point! But, the being seemed to mock me for doing that. I have no idea what it was saying or doing, but it seemed bad. I could feel something happening to me/my energy where it's hands were on me. Somehow I snapped myself awake.

So this now makes two experiences in a row where something seemed "bad" and like I was being affected with or inflicted with "bad" energy. I'm already sick enough, definitely don't need this 

You get them to last longer by honing in on them.

The exact opposite happens for me =( When I try to focus on any instance of these types of hypnogogic images, it/they vanish. If I notice but don't really "LOOK" at them, then they keep going. Does anyone else have this issue? Or is it just me LOL

22 Nov 2020

Out of body experience - lucid dream - astral projection

This is the first concrete set of experiences I've had in well over a month. I started having a weird lucid dream that I think involved Robin Williams (?) Then I thought to myself about whether or not I should take this opportunity to project, given that technically, I'm maybe not supposed to in order to conserve more of my energy. I guess I couldn't help myself! I asked to be taken to my spirit guides. I had a variety of experiences that seemed to last a long time, and because of that, things are a big out of order and I lost a great deal of the details.

This time, my "spirit guides" seemed to be a small group of people. Like 5 or 6 people, both men and women. They seemed to know who I was, and they seemed to know that it had been awhile since I'd been there. I believe I said something about how I hadn't been out in a while, explaining about the qigong, and how my AP experiences just seemed to stop basically right away, and that I don't really understand how that happened. The first order of business from this group of guides was to fix certain things regarding my "energy body" as it relates to my ability to travel out of body. I think I said something about how I was having trouble seeing, as I often do, and often lose my "focus" of the non-physical too soon/easily. Similarly to what happened a while ago where I brought these issues up and the spirit entities recognized this as a problem, my guides from this morning did, too. They said a few things explaining what was wrong, but I can't remember all the details, tho it seemed like they said something like there was a "leak" somewhere. They needed to do something to finish or complete some sort of process. Oddly, it was sexual (shrug??). During it, I felt a fire sensation in my ankles, especially my right ankle. Anyway, after that, I seemed to have one main person who was my tour guide, a woman, she flew around carrying me with her. It seemed like a strange other-worldly, outer space dimension, where there were moons, planets, strange animals and landscapes. I looked around in awe, occasionally getting very excited by what I was seeing. I asked where we were, and it sounded like she said "Sega" (rhyming with "Vega"), and I said, "Oh, like in that movie, Contact!" And she said, yes, but you probably shouldn't say that to anyone (meaning: people will think you're looney). A lot of the incredible things I saw as we flew around I think, in part, were designed to be distractions. She even said to me at one point that it's important to not just see something and fly off randomly to look at it. I was like, Yeah! This is the same advice the people in the forum tell me! Just let the experience unfold, observe, and go with it. Well good on you guys, because she said that's right! So ya'll feel proud, you got a shout out =)

Random interlude: at some point, it seemed we were in a room somewhere, and there was a song playing. I asked what it was, and, weirdly, it *seemed* like she told me it was a George Harrison song from 1992 (RANDOM). So I looked up what all the songs of his there were that came out that year, and the only one that seems to make any "sense" is the song "Tears of the World": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj80iPqME_U   Read the lyrics!

Anyway, at some point, outside flying around, below us was an ocean, and I thought to myself, Uhoh, I bet she's going to take me underwater, as I was thinking about how so many experiences ago, there was the pool, and I was too afraid to put my head below water, because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to breath. And I was right, we flew down into the ocean. It wasn't a bright sunny day, it seemed like the entire thing was unfolding at night, so the water was dark, I couldn't see more than a couple inches in front of me. At first, I could still feel her hands holding me, and I told myself to stay calm, my physical body could breathe air just fine, so my energy body would be OK under water. After a little bit of me breathing underwater, she let go of me. I couldn't feel her hands anymore and I couldn't see her. It was very disorienting, gravity doesn't really exist like we're used to, so since I had no other sensory markers to get a sense of which way was up and which way was down, I became  confused with a vertigo sensation. I didn't know which way was up to the surface! I wasn't sure what to do, but I figured that what I needed to do was get myself, without her help, to the surface, so that's what I did. When I "felt" my head break thru the surface of the water to the air again, I could hear her either clap or say something that affirmed I'd done right/done a good job.

A lot more happened, and they all said many more things to me than I can remember. When it seemed to be time to go, my main guide didn't want to say goodbye/let go of me, and I didn't want to go, either. I felt cared for, protected, and loved. She said, "See you tomorrow!" and I was like, Well, I'll try! But I don't know if I'll be able to get back tomorrow! Anyway eventually she slipped away, and I no longer felt her hands carrying/holding me.

I didn't really want to go back to my body yet, even though that was a really long experience and I knew I would have trouble remembering it all if I didn't start writing things down quick. I think I said what I often say, Take me where I need to go, tell me what I need to know. I felt myself moving/floating through the air, heading in whatever direction. Often at this "in between" stage where I'm in the act of being transported, if I crack my eyes open it seems like I'm in some sort of tunnel, or wormhole, or something. I saw that the wall of this one, when I looked at it, was a particular kinda trippy color pattern of waves and swirls. They weren't bright colors, more subdued pale earth tones, or terracotta shades, almost like combinations of browns, tans, peaches, pinks and oranges. I'm not sure why or how this happened, but I went thru the wall. I'm not sure I was supposed to do that, to be honest. On the other side of the wall was a very weird, mostly empty space. It wasn't the Void I don't think. It was indeed 3D but not perfectly black. There were a few zaps of light, like electrical sparks or signals. There was a lot of mottled gray "noise" and I could feel things "hitting" me, or rather, they seemed to be going thru me, but I felt the impact. Not beings, but like objects. Imagine if you could feel neutrinos banging into you and going thru you. I really wasn't sure what this place was, but I felt scared, like, uh, maybe this isn't a good idea, I'm not sure what's happening.

So, I asked for like a protector angel or whatever to come rescue me. Something or other did show up and take me away, and at first, it seemed like we flew into an indoor, old building, with a built-in stage. I looked out the windows and there were lots of tall buildings mostly covered with water, as if there'd been a great flood. I recognized one of the buildings as Big Ben in London. We flew outside, and I got confused, because I thought the doctor was inside the building where the stage was, but I was told that no, it's actually in the mountains. I was deposited onto some grassy area, and there was a kind of medicinal leaf that I was supposed to eat. The leaf needed to be folded in a very particular way, and then dipped into a special oil, before eating. Also, the stem needed to be removed, because they were toxic. However, it was really hard to get the stem off. I couldn't rip it off just with my finger nails. And I didn't want to use my teeth, because biting into the stem would cause me to feel an electric shock. When I tried pulling the stem out, even though it was a relatively small leaf, this long thread/membrane came out, still connecting the leaf to the stem. I needed help getting this membrane (the one I did NOT want to cut off with my teeth) removed. There was a very burly man, and he had a bow and arrow. He instructed me to hold out the leaf and stem (connected by the long membrane) vertically, so that he could break them apart by shooting the arrow through the membrane. I remember thinking something like, Man, this guy better be a good shot! It worked, and now I finally had just the leaf. I asked him to help me fold it right, because this seemed very important that I eat it, and I wanted to make sure I did it right.

Then I bloody well woke up!!! So now I've been worried all day about how I was in some weird dimensional reality with who-knows-what passing through my body in a way that didn't feel quite right, and eating this leaf was the "medicine" that I needed, and I didn't even get to friggin eat it!

PS Lumaza, that video you posted last time to the Robert Moss talk was great!

2 Oct 2020
Out of body experience - lucid dream - astral projection?

It's been *quite* a long time. On 7 Sept, my qigong teacher told me to focus on nothing but qigong for the time being, and to stop all other practices (meditation, shamanic journeying, etc), as she thinks too much of my energy is being directed outwards, and my energy is confused, which she thinks is contributing to my chronic illness. I didn't intentionally stop APing, however...it just...stopped. So, I wonder if this had anything to do with why it's been so long since I've been out.

But, this morning, it happened again. I had a series of experiences this morning, and stupidly didn't write them all down whenever I shifted back fully to my body, because I was afraid of "waking up" too much and being unable to easily slip back out. I remember getting to that state. I even tried crawling away from my physical body, further and further, to make sure I fully was in my energy body, and when I was sure, I said my usual - Take me where I need to go, teach me what I need to know! No hands, but floated on my back and felt movement. It felt really good to be experiencing these things again. Of course, this time, I was very much aware of what my qigong teacher had said, and wondered if this was a good idea - like a misbehaving child who was told not to eat cookies before dinner and thinking, well, maybe just one won't hurt....

Since most of this is fuzzy, I can only say that at some point, I appeared to be in outer space - I didn't ask to go there, but it's where I wound up. I'd never been here before. It clearly wasn't normal space. Strange colors, formations, objects. It was pretty spectacular, and I even remember thinking there was no way I would be able to remember and describe what I was seeing! A large portion of my experiences seemed to revolve around the basics: trying to control my limbs and movement. My legs and arms felt leaden, heavy, still, almost paralyzed, or stuck. I could hardly get anything to move. I also periodically had repeated difficulty getting my eyes open and seeing clearly. There was a period where different objects were thrown at me, and it seemed my job was to try to get my arms to move, to catch them - or at least, touch/make contact with them. At one point, I managed to catch a tambourine - and even tapped it a bit to play it! This is so similar to my *very first* experience out of body, where there was one object that kept being thrown at me, and I held another object in my hand, and I had to tap the object I was holding to the object being thrown - practicing hand-eye coordination.

It's strange, like I was somehow back to the beginning. I wonder, Is this because it's been so long that I was out? Is this because I'm at a higher "level" of energy reality, and thus, honest to goodness have to relearn the basics of how to move again, at this new level or "place"? I don't know. I wish I had forced myself to write everything down after each experience, that probably would have revealed something, because I KNOW words were exchanged between myself and "them"!

On the topic of two people having the same perception of non-ordinary reality at the same time, I can offer this small example from my own experience. Not an OBE, but rather a shamanic journey.

I've been going to "shaman school" (as it were) and was in a shapeshifting class with one other student. At one point, it was time for us to both do our own shamanic journeys (at the same time) to shapeshift into whatever we were guided to shapeshift into. We each lay on our backs on the floor, with our heads together (so, not on opposite ends of the room, or with our feet touching). Our teacher did the drumming, we closed our eyes and went on our separate journeys.

The first thing I saw was a massive green python. It didn't seem like a random thing I just imagined for no reason. It seemed to be "correct" that it was there. I wasn't sure, however, that this was "my" animal, but it seemed purposeful, so I decided to shapeshift into it anyway. It was kind of a "meh" experience. Ultimately, it just didn't....feel right. So I left the python and continued on my merry way.

Anyway, I finished doing my thing, the other student finished doing her thing, we both wrote down our experiences, and then we shared what we encountered. I went first and only talked about the second animal I shapeshifted into. I didn't even mention the part about the snake. Then, it was the other student's turn to share.

You can probably see where this is going =)

*Her* animal that came to her, for her to shapeshift into, was ::drumroll please:: a massive green python.

Well, I just exploded at that point. "OHMYGODISAWYOURSNAKE!" I perceived the exact same animal - in kind, size, and color; I perceived that it was really there for a reason (and not just random imaginings on my part); and I also perceived that it wasn't the right animal *for me*.

You could try to pass this off as "mere coincidence", but this sort of thing isn't uncommon.

I think the broader question to all this is, Is non-ordinary reality, well, "real"? And I think the answer is yes. When I practice doing soul retrievals for practice clients, somehow lil old me is able to perceive their lost soul parts - how old were they when this part left, what were the general circumstances of that part leaving, even memories of things the client associates with that time period. While this isn't "OBE", I think it does lend credibility to the idea of non-ordinary reality and non-physical perception - both of which are applicable in the OBE conversation.

And as far as my own experiences are concerned...what I can say is that the first time I left my body, it was in high school. I was pretty wigged out, and then just dismissed the experience. I didn't start really trying to do it regularly until just a few months ago, early June. Since then, I've been doing it roughly every week. Sometimes a few times a week (sometimes even a few times on a single morning!). The first time I fully got out, made the request of where I wanted to go, and felt the invisible hands CARRY ME, feeling the hands, feeling myself being carried, feeling the sensation of movement/momentum - honestly that was one of the most real, powerful, transformative things I've ever experienced in my life. I'm open-minded but skeptical, and if I didn't experience myself I might be doubtful, but I can't ignore this. I was fully aware/conscious. I was lying in bed while it was starting and even touched my tongue to my teeth, to confirm that I wasn't asleep/dreaming. I also had an experience about a month ago where I went to visit a friend of mine while out of body (not something I generally do, I have a different agenda). I saw him wrapped in bandages, one around his head, the other around his abdomen. He told me, "Laura took me back." I was really confused by this, and disappointed - none of it made sense, he'd never dated a "Laura." I thought, could he be talking about his most recent ex, Gail? Did it just get translated funny? But the names "Gail" and "Laura" are nothing alike. So I thought, well, could it all have just been a dream? I decided to give him a call that afternoon. I didn't tell him anything about what I'd experienced, I just wanted to catch up. He told me he got back together with his ex-girlfriend LYNDA (who was terrible!) and that the experience of being involved with her again was HEALING OLD WOUNDS. This explains why I perceived him as being wrapped in bandages - wounds that are healing. And "Laura" and "Lynda" sound a lot of alike. They both begin with L, end with A, are the same number of letters, etc. Honestly, I was so shocked that he was back with her (because she was terrible!) that I COMPLETELY FORGOT to even tell him about visiting him that morning!

So that, for me, is pretty convincing. And if researcher-type folks object saying "but it wasn't the exact same name" all I can say is, my dudes, I saw things without physical eyes, I heard things without physical ears, I felt things without physical hands - there's a bit of a learning curve, here.

Good questions. One thing I will say is that everything we experience (EVERYTHING) will result in some sort of reaction/change "in the brain/body". Whether you're feeling love, or any other emotion, or sensing temperature, or motion, there are changes in the brain and body. Or you're looking at a tree. Again, changes in the brain and body. When you look at a tree, the light photons go into your eye, and that's translated into electrical impulses in your brain, and you "see" the tree. Can we say that because it's just electrical impulses in your brain (the photons themselves don't even reach the brain!), that there is no tree, or the tree is only "in" your brain, or was "created" by your brain?

No matter WHAT you experience, there WILL BE a change in the brain. How could it be otherwise!? So the reductionist/scientistic explanation that therefore the thing/phenomenon is fully explained by brain signals just doesn't make much sense. There is literally nothing that a human being could experience that does not result in some sort of change in the brain and body. Literally nothing.

One thing I think it's worth considering is - what if those people WERE really having an out of body experience, which was induced by certain electrical currents? Human beings have used all sorts of technologies to leave their bodies and spirit walk, connect with guides, etc, since forever. Shamans use drumming, dancing, sometimes plants. Drumming and dancing may seem simple, but they're TOOLS. And powerful tools at that. If non-ordinary consciousness is induced by drumming (or whatever), that drumming will help trigger a certain state in the body and the brain. Obviously! How could it be otherwise? So is it not real? Meditation affects brain and body - this is all so well documented - and if they made a pill that immediately put the brain/body in the *exact same state* as that achieved after years of meditation practice, and resulted is the person feeling/experiencing exactly the same thing - what are we going to say about it? Why would that be less real?

You might be interested in the book Where Science and Magic Meet, by Serena Roney-Dougal. One of the things the book points to is the work of neuroscientist Karl Pribram and physicist David Bohm. I only read the book recently, but I was giddy over it because back in the day, Pribram was one of my professors in college, and I wrote my senior thesis about the holonomic theory of the brain, consciousness, and the universe. A couple excerpts of Pribram's talks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHpTYs6GJhQ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK3ILQmyIis

This is all to say that science is WEIRD. You'd think it was some woo woo person talking about this, but rather it's an esteemed professor. So when researcher folks say "oh it's just something that happened in the brain" I'm like....do you even know what you're saying? LOL JUST the brain? The brain seems to function as a lens that collapses the fuzzy spectral domain/implicate order into the discrete "space-time" domain/explicate order that we're used to perceiving! But sure, "just" the brain... I took these cognitive neuroscience courses with Pribram and that just shattered that notion for me.

One dude's attempt at understanding them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tOTX7oI5Vs

And of course, mental illness is a real thing. I found this book helpful for discussing the differences between spiritual crises and mental illness/hallucinations: Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis, by Stanislav and Christina Grof.