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hell... u do impress me with your speech oazaki... but i just cant even begin to think of god as someone who wants to keep us in bondage and deny us knowledge. true i am new to magick but i do know some thing ( however meagre it is ) regarding the good and bad. i think there is some truth in what nita says.
i just dont know how to put all i feel in to words.
but the basic point is to think of god as someone who doesnt wish us good is absurd.

okkk i have more queries...
has anyone out here has personally tried to evoke any spirits. can u tell me of ur experience?? I searched the net. There are a lot of material to help me invoke those goetic spirits but literally none to familiarize my self with the good spirits or elementals. How do I invoke them and how do I talk to them. I guess elementals are pretty good in nature so I thought maybe I will try to evoke them first...
Hey I read some of ur entries in other forums as well
Tell me guys will the spirits simply grant me wishes if I ask them to once after I evoked them?
And what about the great abyss??? And the worlds beneath and about it??? where do I find more material on that subject... I hope u giys can help me... I am totally lost.
And hey do u need any special gifts to perform all these magic acts in general??? Some of the books I have read is totally high level language and I don't seem to understand what the authors are trying to say...
Don't those entities have to fear karma too? Do the beings in the physical plane alone have to worry about their karma or consequences of the action. If they do something bad then don't they pay for it? tell me one more thing... if they chose to, can they pick out anyone from any world and hurt them... like can they reach someone here in the physical plane without prior contact or his or her knowledge...  

Bye guys...

and also thanks for all the people who have taken time to reply my queries ( i mean it )

The subject of beliefs and religion is a very complex subject and one which is very personal to many.  Often times, people will find themselves looking at more than one religion and questioning which is good.  It's what I like to call evolution of consciousness.

The more I read and feel, the more I believe that there really isn't such a thing as "bad/evil" "good/bad"  more or less in the same way that there isn't really such a thing as "male/female" in the higher-self's sense.  Satan, I believe was invented in the same way a soul splits into male/female so to speak (If God was good, than evil must have existed).  Does good really need to be good or evil.  What does it really mean to be "good" or "bad"?  Good/Bad is in the eye of the beholder.  Arguably, everything that's bad is good if you take a look at the global picture and vice versa.  Thus implying that no action is really bad or good.

I'm ticked. I tried again just now..

I did the breath relaxation thing for about 35 minutes. Then I started on the mental falling thing. The whole time my heart was beating more because I was nervous, and my surface mind kept having thoughts about the day etc. I raised energy through my chakras once And I felt pretty physically relaxed and I started trying to get out. After a minute or so of that I felt that i was raising my body and tensing my arms so I stopped. What the hell am I doing wrong?

Please help

I feel ya.  I'm pretty much at the same stage you are at.  I think it has to do with lack of concentration and full relaxation (ie: the very basics).  As you "pull yourself" with ROPE, you tend to send very faint signals throughout your nervous system and eventually you find yourself slightly tensed or if you wait a long time, you find yourself completely tensed even though you were completely relaxed as you started.

The key I believe is to be able to think of an action without using any of the 5 senses (don't visualize it, don't smell it, don't feel it, don't hear it, don't taste it).  Some of theses are pretty easy, but visualizing and touching may not be that natural.

I find that the heartbeat often comes around when you feel a slight "lifting" sensation.  The heart doesn't actually beat faster (at least in my case) it is merely felt throughout my entire body.  I can feel it in my spine, eyebrows, chest, ...

Since I'm not an expert and nerve pretend to be one (especially in such material as metaphysics), I would suggest you take my writing as an opinion more than anything.

Sounds like an odd situation. One thing i've noticed, is that if your mind is looking for patterns, it really isn't hard to find them. One day i was thinking of the number seven, and the first 5 or 6 signs i seen on the road, all added up to the number 7. I felt really odd as i'm sure you do, but my case was probably just my mind being aware of patterns or something. Yours sounds like a deeper case, i'm interested in the results of this though. Keep us posted.

Hi, I agree with you on this one.  Initially, the odds were such that I saw a few 3:14 but I think that eventually I reached a point where I was looking for it and they probably popped around more often then they should have.  Although the 13s are something a little weirder I must say.  3 13s in a row like that from September to November.  The odds of that happening are actually pretty low.  Everything seems to be moving at a slow pace with that relationship.  I'm really unsure where it's going.  I'll keep you posted

There was a comment here on a memebr who used Goetic magic to deal with negs, this made me think about the seemingly growing interest in dark/black magick.

About ten years ago whilst subscribing to a Swedish occult magazine,
one can coukld clearly see (especially in the contact ads) that there was a strong interest in all things related to the left hand path, vampirism,etc.

In Sweden there is also a magickal society which is focused entirely on what they call "dark magick", they explore the qlipphotic paths etc. call up qlipphotic entities and they state that this is beneficial and something spiritually over-looked by most magicians. They also focus on the kundalini-force (rather than calling down force from the sphere above the head).

For me, I can agree that it is vital to know thyself, especially the dark and shadowy aspects of oneself (as these are aspects that are used by negs, for instance). But to devote oneself entirely to this aspect seems suspect.

It seems that there is a strong attraction from these dark spheres, and one wonders what trail of negs follows in the wake of such operations, so the problem of negs is thus quite symptomatic.
Personally I wouldn't experiment with such forces unless I was a very advanced practicioner.

I know that the left hand path has tried to recruit me, but, no thanks, it is not my cup of tea. I don't want to go backwards in my spriritual evolution.
I suspect that there are practioners of the left hand path who use negs to consciously attack people, such as "if you don't join us, then will make sure your theurgic studies are impeded". I have remember once having seen a hooded left hand figures in a vision.

I think you have an interesting point here.  I can't prove anything, but I tend to believe that the reason we're here in the first place is because we wanted to experience something which was of "lower nature".  Think of it as the black magic of a higher world.  A group of souls wanted to control /experience the physical and thus they were sent into this spiral into which they eventually lost their identity and purpose.  Some of us are spiraling back up while others are still spiraling back down to an even deeper level.  The danger in going there is loosing contact with the higher self and going even deeper than you initially wanted to go.  I recall a movie about black magic "Witches"?  Where a bunch of girls got together to try dark magic and they eventually turned up so obsessed by the magic that the magic ended up controlling them and not the other way around.  I think this is a metaphor for what happened to us all.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TheDarkApprentice



You can achive immortality by cloning?? What?

Was there sarcasm in your statement at all. I'm frickin tired and couldn't tell what "write a book" meant. Haha......I'm such a re tard.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

LOL. No! No sarcasm at all! [] Cloning could be considered a viable method of immortality. Okay, I've got a dose of sci-fi in me. [] It may not be possible yet, and maybe not really you (unless brains are transplanted, or something)...

I believe that creating something allows a part of you to live forever (until it's destroyed). That includes books, paintings, etc...

I would agree with you that creating something leaves a small part of you there.  That small part is energy actually (frequency that identifies you).  In fact it goes even deeper than that.  Whatever you touch, walk around, think of etc obtains some energy from you.  You can think of it more or less like the infra-red (heat) cameras work.  Instead of leaving heat behind, you leave a frequency or energy behind.  The more attention you give to something, the more energy you devote to it.  OBE work the same way I believe.  It's basically an energy transfer where the mind transfers energy to your astral body by thinking about it in some abstract sense.

Here's an interesting thing that keep popping up and which I have only recently started to make sense out of it.  For about 3-4 years, I've often stumbled upon the time of day 3:14.  Initially, this amused me as I linked it with PI (3.14159265...).  But it started to appear more often (ie: when I looked at the time, 3:14 was up and showing).  Again yesterday night, I didn't look at the time for the entire night until we started cleaning the house and of course, the listed time was 3:14am.

I've just recently noticed that there are many 13s in events surrounding me.  My brother's b-day the 13th of May, Mine; 13th of October.  And Just recently, I met someone who's birthday is the 13th of November and the first time we came into contact was on the 13th of September.  Part of my skepticism is the fact that my parents are both born on April 15s (exactly one year apart) and I know it wasn't just a fluke in their case.  I don't know where this new relationship is going but I can't help but to be curious about it.

Now the two cases are related together because if you read 3:14 in the opposite direction, what you get is 4-13s which is exactly what I've got up there.  I don't know if this makes any sense or if it's skepticism above anything, but time will Tell I presume.

Any thoughts!?

[Well... death will come too early or too late, and in a uncertain time... perhaps when during I go to pay my taxes a car breaks my life... then, why not to death now trying to OBE..?]

Oh..! Well..!
About myself I want to post following testimonials:

2-Significant results I have since two weeks to date. My first order fear (to death and the loss of such event shall signify for my loved ones) I can overcome simply by thinking: "<font color="red">Well... death will come too early or too late, and in a uncertain time... perhaps when during I go to pay my taxes a car breaks my life... then, why not to death now trying to OBE..?</font id="red">"

I'm writing this because I believe it can help people and I would tend to believe that it inhibits OBEs.  The fear of death is like a child's fear of the dark.  The question you really have to ask yourself is "What exactly are you afraid of?".  The answer is probably the unknown in which case you can about it.  A child is typically afraid of the dark because he is afraid of "monsters"  or if you prefer, the "unknown" under their bed, inside their closets, etc....  I'd suggest to read more on the subject and I bet your fears will dissipate.  I'm guessing is will also simplify the process once you reach it.

I entirely agree with Rastus on this one.  I would even go as far as to say that Ouija boards are quite dangerous as they attract more dark spirits than light spirits.  Light spirits will often times not want to interfere with you for your mere enjoyment (ie: a game).  The other thing is that light spirits are also often beyond the first level (which is not as close to the physical and thus tough to interact directly with the physical without breaking some laws).

In short, dark spirits are WAY more attracted to such boards than any other and they will deceive you in the most unsuspecting ways as they can read you like a book.  Not having a name is also something which makes me believe that it's more dark than light (I could be wrong).  But a name gives you power over that spirit and if it doesn't want to give you its name, it's because it doesn't want you to exert that power over it.  I would suggest to let it go.  If it truly wants to reach you and it's intentions are pure, it will do so by other means.

I had a dream once where a lady was explaining to me that I needed to discover my "33-fold self".  Does anyone out there have any idea what this might be referring to?  Is there any particular significance to the number 33 in developing the energy body in any practices?

This is just a blind guess, but this is probably a "symbol" more than anything.  If you wanted to take it literally, I would point out that you actually live other lives today in other places.  Time is an illusion and even physics agrees with this at this stage of our group evolution.  As a mater of fact, you are often attracted by the people who are like you in other lives.  Thus the 33th you could be just another you trying to communite to you.

Astute observations?

Most people are here for a 'reason'.  I know the site is about AP/OBE, but there are a lot more forums.  The reason is it's all related.  AP/OBE is just a facet or tool of all the 'is' for a given persons reality.  I gently encourage you to explore all that you are and can be, as opposed to any particular talent or technique.

-Namaste

I completely agree with you on this.  I don't want to be part of a "religious clan" for a lack of a better word for that reason.  I don't believe that a single "clan" holds everything I'm looking for.  I generally follow my instinct for this and for now, this is where I feel I should dwell for a bit.  I'm sure that once I'll learn my dues from this doctrine, that I will move on to the next one as I've always done.

All roads lead to Rome.  Some are just faster than others

Hi, (sorry for the super-long rant)

I figured that I would introduce myself as I plan to dwell in the forums as time permits.  I am not part of any sect, religion or similar types of groups although I know a fair amount about many of them.  In general, I feel that all the well-known ones all express the exact same idea but that their view on things are slightly different.  People have skewed some of them for their own personal purposes (which is a shame) but retrieving the oldest possible texts typically clears things up.  It's like looking at a medal and each group looking at it from a different angle.  The more I read and understand, the more things mesh together.  Interesting.

From the youngest of age I can remember, I've always believed in "magic", which I can best define as "the manipulation of energy"; technically we're already all doing magic with our physical body.  The rocks may believe we're doing "magic".  It's another point of view once more.  I've read a form of "daily thought of the day" from a Khabalist throughout high school, which kick-started my mind on the world of the invisible.  As I started university, I finally got connected to the Internet (I almost feel like there's a soul group attached to it; kinda like a rock has one).  I was first interested by stories of mythical/fabled civilization (Atlantis being the most prominent; Did I ever dwell it?  Is it due to surface soon? <shrug>).  This eventually got me to pages that pushed metaphysics as a whole and interestingly enough, astral projections got inserted into my life by a music group of the same name.

I later on found articles about Kundalini and I think that my chakras started working at that point.  I could feel energy surging through in a peaceful continuous flow.  From that point on, I can feel emotions as waves inside my body (it feels like a form of shiver) but the temperature does not cause it.  I don't believe theses are my emotions although some are.  I do not react to them in a physical way (besides the shiver-like behavior).  It feels like surging a circuit, but the lasting effect is that of a frequency to which the body seems to vibrate to.

I also stumbled upon early versions of tutorials about astral projection, where I got to a point where I heard an increasingly loud frequency, which scared me away on the spot.  Eventually, I ended up having many projects and had to put my meta-study aside for school.  What I just recently realized is that in elementary school, we had "meditation sessions".  For one hour, they would play a tape and we were to relax with our eyes closed in the gym.  I never really understood why/where this comes from, but it must have been from someone trying to push this.  All I can say is that, this is too young for most kids.

Anyhow, only recently have I had the time to work on energy buildup/concentration and OOBE.  Currently, I can get into the first trance stage but this is not the deep trance stage (not yet at least).  The interesting thing is that a few times ago when the meditation location's mood was just perfect, I could consistency feel my heart charka beating to the point where concentration was really hard to keep .  I need more concentration to achieve the later form of trance and likely project.  I feel like it's a mere mater of time and work.  My old youngsters dreams of continuously flying through a world at will makes me believe that I've done this before maybe also in this body <shrug>.  In theses dreams, will was making me fly and I recall times where I willed it but would not fly very high (as if slowed down by a form of gravity).  It all just sound like cases I've read.  Interesting is all I can say.

The forum seems to be primarily populated with two age groups [15-25] and [30-49].  The first seems to seek a different goal than the later (ie: more result based) but it seems the high-level path is the same as they will eventually end up recognizing the need to work abstractly first.

This rant is already longer than it should be;
Chris

Hi, (sorry for the super-long rant)

I figured that I would introduce myself as I plan to dwell in the forums as time permits.  I am not part of any sect, religion or similar types of groups although I know a fair amount about many of them.  In general, I feel that all the well-known ones all express the exact same idea but that their view on things are slightly different.  Some have been skewed with by people for their own personal purposes (which is a shame) but retrieving the oldest possible texts typically clears things up.  It's like looking at a medal and each groups look at it from different angles.  The more I read and understand, the more things mesh together.  Interesting.

From the youngest of age I can remember, I've always believed in "magic", which I can best define as "the manipulation of energy"; technically we're already all doing magic with our physical body.  The rocks may believe we're doing "magic".  It's another point of view issue once more.  I've read a form of "daily thought of the day" from a Khabalist throughout high school, which kick-started my mind on the world of the invisible.  As I started university, I finally got connected to the Internet (I almost feel like there's a soul group attached to it; kinda like a rock and a primitive form).  I was first interested by stories of mythical/fabled civilization (Atlantis being the most prominent; Did I ever dwell it?  Is it due to surface soon? <shrug>).  This eventually got me to pages that pushed metaphysics as a whole and interestingly enough, astral projections got inserted into my life by a music group of the same name.

I later on found articles about Kundalinie and I think that my chakras started working at that point.  I could feel energy surging through in a peaceful continuous flow.  I also stumbled upon early versions of tutorials about astral projection, but all attempts were in vain with the noted exception of one where I got to a point where I heard an increasingly loud frequency which scared me away on the spot.  Eventually, I ended up having many projects and had to put my meta-study aside for school.  What I just recently realized is that in elementary school, we had "meditation sessions".  For one hour, they would play a tape and we were to relax with our eyes closed in the gym.  I never really understood why/where this comes from, but it must have been from someone trying to push this.  All I can say is that, this is too young for most kids.

Lately is when the most interesting things happen.  My family had a friend who was a very powerful energy worker/psychic.  Of one thing, she gave my mom a reading and she identified that I were to be "away from home" eventually while my brother would stay back.  As such, I moved from Canada to California just about a year ago and I feel like I'm here to stay for a while (indefinitely?).  There are many links between my father/mom/brother in terms of past lives, but I'm the Grey card in this scenario.  Still there's something about them that links us <shrug>.  There's too many 4's for this to numerically make any sense.  

Speaking of numbers, both parents were born on the same date exactly one year apart.  As for me and my brother, we're both born on 13s but with 5 months in between.  A while ago, I often ended up looking at the time only to read "3:14".  Of course this smells like PI = 3.141592... but I just recently noticed that it can also read 4-13 if read reversed.  The interesting thing is that I just recently met someone (only once so far).  Her birthday ends up being on the 13th of November which is 11 months apart, but that curious 13 pops up again.  What's even more disturbing is that I got this strange feeling of looking for more 13s between us both and it just so ended up that the first time I had received any reply (via email) was on the 13th of September (4-13 odds?).  Not that much has happened since then besides meeting one another once in Sept, but her work and timing seems to push things back (Mere superstition?).

Speaking of superstition, another funny thing happened about a yea ago.  Last Christmas, I was coming back from Canada (visiting my family for Christmas) and to my great dismay, my firs plane was late and caused me to miss my second plane.  The catch-22 was that everyone at the counter for that company was GONE and there were no other flights home on that day.  Grumpily, I had to rent a room and take a flight the very next day.  As I got into the airport, a man was standing there giving free books out.  It was the "Behaved-Gita".  I systematically read a few pages of the book per night and it enlightened me on many things.  It basically made me look at another side of the "medal".  Things just seemed to make more sense.  It's like a confirmation that what you understood was it.  I mainly retained the facts and philosophy out of it.

As every circle meets its beginning, I went back to Canada this summer and stumbled upon more OOBE pages.  As I came into my folk house, I could hear a humble frequency in the air (it's the same as when you frown your head slightly except I didn't have to do that at that point to hear it).  I just felt the energy of the area and the more I read about OOBE, the more energy I could feel traversing my body.  On that night, I gave it a go.  The nice thing about my room at my folks is that it's pitch dark, the temperature is cold enough that you don't overheat but still require some blanket to keep warm so the temperature was pretty much perfect.  I ended up the first night stomped with a scenario where my heart seemed like it pounded insanely and thanks to Robert, I later found out that this was my heart Chakra beating.

Throughout the days, I consistently worked on projecting and had some interesting results although no real projection occurred.  I could feel the trantic state begin.  I could feel my body in a state of relaxation and could feel myself lifting upwards towards the ceiling.  It's felt as if an onion skin of the physical body was lifting upwards ever so slightly.  I felt as if I weighted less and I could also feel a form of petrification.  All along while the heart chakra pounded throughout the entire body.  The pulses were strong enough that I could feel it pretty much everywhere (eyes, heart, along the spine, ...).  I still have work to do on concentration and also on energy, but the feeling of "lifting" and the heartbeat combined with the feeling of being turned into stone was definitely intriguing enough for me to devour another book which I am looking forward to.

The unfortunate thing is that since I have been back home, I have a very difficult time reproducing anything.  Part of the problem is that the room is far from dark as light pierces through from various directions, but the most concerning thing is that my computer sits in my room and generates a constant noise.  I can typically ignore it for a good bit while meditating but it eventually pops back up after a few minutes although it does not while sleeping.  Concentration, again, seems to be lacking.  I'm also thinking that it's possible that I have used up my "reserve" which I had built up and that now I'm more or less depleted.

As such is my story.  I still have a lot to sort out and part of it I hope to find in the higher selves.  More and more, everyday, things seem to make more sense and things seem to talk to you.

Sorry for this ooper long rant, I promise my next posts will have a moderate length.


Looking forward to conversion with you(s),