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Heyas,

I've finally got past my toes in the NEW process (damn they were hard to get going) and last night I did some leg work.

I have a question - in the NEW excercises, we are told to feel the awareness up and down the top, bottom, inside, outside of legs.  That's all fine, but then we have to use the sponging action through our legs, up and down.

When i do this, I *really* feel resistance, its literally like I'm dragging my awareness through mud with a sponge.

How is this action different to the "bouncing" of your awareness through your legs?  Should the bouncing be left until you get faster flow through, or do you don't "sponge" it as much when you bounce?  Coz the bouncing says its supposed to take half a second or so each way, and at the rate Im going it certainly isn't that fast!

I assume its normal to have lots of resistance when first starting out?  Can I still raise my energy before going to bed each night at this point? (IE through the legs, thighs, into the sub navel centre)?  Or should I do ALL the exercises before raising energy?

That's fine, but that's for you to make a new religion out of. I'm only referring to long-established Christian sects. Perhaps the reason the Gnostic's testimonials were revoked were that they were in conflict with teachings, absurb, and probably not real god-induced revelations. I wouldn't clump this with generic Christianity any more than I would Mormonism.

Again, I am not rock solid on this, as I haven't done enough research (and I will admit to that, Smart Aleck or not) but from what I understand, those who followed the Gnostic Gospels believed that were teachings were handed down only those who were spiritually "mature" to handle such subjects.  It was not something for the "masses".

They were in conflict with the teachings that the church was able to use to appeal to the masses - don't forget that the gospels that were chosen for the Bible in the first place, were chosen by people, not God or Jesus.  Once could argue that those who chose the gospels for the Bible were "divinely inspired" or some rubbish, but it was probably more "politically" inspired than anything else.

By the way, its "Absurd" not "Absurb".  (Thank god for Spelling Cow!)  

PS - Palehorse - man, I do love reading what you write.  I just wish that I could make sense of things to be as articulate on the subject as you are.  Oh well, with a little more learning and research I am sure i will be one day.

I actually have quite a hard time visualising such things as was recommended above.  I really like the whole idea of imaging "awareness hands" because its not something I picture, its something I feel.

It makes it quite easy to feel the energy without needing to look with my eyes.

The first time I had sleep paralysis I still remember to this day - I thought it was just a bad dream!

I was young, and I was lying on my side facing my room.  As I was lying there, I noticed this white figure beside my bed.  I was so scared, that I wanted to scream and to hide but I couldn't.  Finally I managed to wake up and run to my parents room, but it scared the crap out of me.

I still remember it to this day, and finding out that it was "sleep paralysis" was what lead me to investigating astral projection and the like.  I actually was reminded a month or so ago, when I remember lying in my bed, and feeling like something was coming to get me and being so completely wrapped in fear until I woke up.  Now I know next time it happens to just relax and go with the flow.

To be safe, one would pray, not attempt to learn more than he already knows, and use the abilities to help people, and never call upon anything while using them but God.

Ok that's kinda silly.  Don't attempt to learn more than what one already knows?  Does that mean if I don't know how to use a computer, I shouldn't learn that either?  Why should this be not put towards ALL things in life?

I agree with what Palehorse wrote.  I discovered something unusual that I was experiencing, and upon finding out what it was, and what could be done, I decided I wanted to learn more.  

And you have said that the Bible says this and that, I'm quite interested in what the Gnostic Gospels also say - they weren't included in the mainstream Bible, but we can't necessarily dismiss them entirely (well I can't until I learn a bit more about them).  The Gnostic form of Christianity takes on a WHOLE different meaning when it comes to "Spirituality".

it sounds like your teacher separated his astral body from the form
in bruce's techniques you create an energy double, which then travels, while your astral body is still in your form
when you are empty, there is risk, but when you create a double, nothing can posses you
except for usual means, but they work regardless if you are projecting or not  
ha ha ha

But I thought that the idea is that you never actually leave your body, what happens is that you just shift your awareness to another consciousness, but it FEELS like you've left your body (no matter what technique you use)

Thank you SD for posting those links - they're helpful for me in researching such things as how this may or may not fit into Christian teaching

Hey thats really cool!   I'd love to hear more about your experience

Guys, the thing you don't seem to understand is that guys like Jacob didn't WILL themselves to have dreams, they didn't try to astrally project, they didn't try to heal. God did it. He gave him the visions, He told them how to heal, and it only worked when He wanted it to.

So what about those who have naturaly been able to project/heal all their life and didn't necessarily "seek" to do so?  Are THEY doing God's word, or are they too being "deceived by the Devil" (As so many Christians believe).

Palehorse - hey cool!  Didn't realise that was your site, I found it on Google.  That particular article really did open my eyes, as I am currently researching background and histories of Christian beliefs and am finding out all sorts of fascinating stuff.  Thanks for writing it!!

Paradox - you are much, much braver than I could ever be.  I believe my current partner is my soul mate, and when I read what you wrote about getting along perfectly, but being opposite enough to have a healthy balance, that certainly made me smile because its exactly the way my relationship is!   We ALWAYS resolve any matters that come up and we are both continually amazed at how special our relationship is.  We met when I was 19, and from the day we met we were together.

If he decided he needed to go somewhere without me, I think I would be utterly and totally distraught.  I don't know if I could have handled it as well as you have, but I believe you should trust in what you both share, and await her return in 3 weeks.  As they say, everything happens for the best and I am a firm believer in that.  I would like to think that I could be as sensible about it as you appear to be, but as they say, its easier said than done

If she comes back and you are both still madly in love, then yes, I think that the trip had to happen for you to realise your love for each other - and that you probably won't need to ever doubt it!!

I may choose to be good, but I want to choose it, not have it insisted upon.

EVERYTHING in life is about choice.  You choose to be good, you choose to be bad.  You choose to be happy, you choose to be angry.

No one can insist upon you to be a good person - it is not possible.  Your feelings, your emotions, and your attitude towards life and others, is ALL your choice.

Once you realise that, things are so much easier

When I was an angst-ridden teenager, my dad used to say to me, "Why are you choosing to be upset about this?"  Which, naturally, made me even angrier.  But as I grew up, the more I thought about it, the more I realized this is true.  If I am sulking and depressed, its my choice, and sometimes I'm just content to wallow in my own self pity.  But I am always aware, that I can choose to be happy or good, whenever I am ready.

Good grief... *does Charlie Brown pose*

Is that the only reason you revived this thread??

Wow.

What is your definition of "following the Bible literally"?

Do you mean following as per English transation?  Because if you do enough research, you will find that there are parts of the Bible that in English, don't exactly mean the same thing as the original language.  Its the literal translation of the Bible that English speaking Christians follow, and as such, I believe can be misguided.

One only needs to look at the example of the word "Hell" to get an idea.

I use this example because it is one of the better short articles on such.

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/PaleHorse13x/Hell.html

Here's another one that was brought to my attention on another forum.

Romans 12:14 says "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse." In verses 17-21 it teaches to never pay back evil for evil; to try to live at peace with all; to NEVER TAKE REVENGE, BUT LEAVE ROOM FOR THE WRATH OF GOD, for "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord".

That being said - as the point was raised, should Christians not file lawsuits against those who do them wrong?  Is that not a form of "payback" or "revenge"?

I agree with Laiana -- that you may have projected, but nothing returned to give you a memory imprint.  It may have happened, but without a memory imprint, it is as though it did not happen.

However, this lack of memory can be rectified.  The next time you have a Lucid Dream, access your Dreamself's Memory -- simply think to yourself while in a dream "Do I remember having Astrally Projected?"  Oh yes!  It will unleash a flood of memories.

Hey cool!!  I am going to remember that

I'm just a beginner, and I've found after all the reasearch I was doing on the web, the best thing was just to get a copy of Astral Dynamics and read through it

I looked up all sorts of web pages and information, but I just ended up getting more confused - not knowing what to start with.  At least with the book, you're guided through a few things, given some info, then perhaps you can work out from there what you want to learn

(If anyone has some better suggestions please chime in, just thought this might be helpful for a beginner, from a beginner!)

I'm not sure - I'm very new to this too  

Have you read Astral Dynamics?  Its an excellent resource for the peculiarities of OBE.  I can't remember what the book said (I'm at work, and the book is at home) so can't really help.

Another cool thing happened to me on the weekend.  I decided that Sunday was going to be my "practise" day (since I tend to go out on Friday night and want to get up earlyish on Saturday to enjoy the day!)  Sunday is my sleep in day.

I woke up at around 7am ish and, remembering that OBEs generally are easier to have after a full night sleep, went back to bed, because I was sleepy anyway.

I woke up (my eyes were still closed and it was dark behind my eyelids) to find myself on my side, but I guess in a form of "sleep paralysis".  I felt my body wanting to roll out, off the bed, but I was worried that I really was awake and would fall on the floor!!  So I tried rolling the other way but ended up rolling in the direction where my face would go intowards the bed, instead of upwards towards the ceiling.  After a few rolls back and forth I decided I would try and open my eyes.  I willed my eyes to open, and with an audible "blink" (I actually heard it) what I assumed was my third eye opened, and I could see the curtain that I was facing, but everything had a shimmery and sparkly quality to it.

I then got too excited I think, and woke up proper.

This occurred after I had been dreaming about something (I can't remember now, but I did write it down).

This time, I know that what I saw was real, and not a dream.  I can now feel confident in saying that, because although everything had a shimmery quality to it, I remember it clearly, as a proper memory, and not a dream.

I assume I just have to learn to stay relaxed, and not get too excited, in order to continue exploring that state.  Its funny - before I was worried about being "frightened" by experiencing these things, but during that short episode, I was naturally calm, and wanted just to explore the state.

I am reading Astral Dynamics, heter, and what you experienced sounds exactly like what Robert describes in one of his chapters about the mind split, and how he felt like all the signs of projection were there, but then it appeared that nothing happened.  He did however maintain the trance state after this.

What had actually happened is that an OBE did in fact take place, but due to the mind split his physical/etheric body did not realise it until he saw his astral body re-enter the room.

Its a fascinating book, I am really enjoying it!

Last night I had a dream - I woke up at about 5:30am and I remember vaguely thinking that "its the morning, if I'm going to try projecting it should be now".  Then I think I fell back asleep, but I do remember (somewhat hazily, as one would remember a dream) that all of a sudden I was standing at the end of my bed, and I jumped up and down a few times and I remember thinking "Cool, I'm out of body!" and so I decided to try running down my hallway when all of a sudden I was snapped back into my body - I didn't wake up but went on to have another different dream after that.

From what I see, people who AP remember it vividly... I only remember it as if it were a dream.  Was it just my brain doing a bit of wishful thinking?  Or might it have been real?  I remember while I was drifting off thinking just don't be afraid, there's nothing to be afraid of.  (When I am awake I'm always worried that I'll try to AP and there will be some strange creature in my room or something).  

What do you all think?

Hi there,

Thanks all for the replies.

I will definitely try out the advice - and don't worry holo, I most definitely appreciate your input as well!

I guess it just came as kind of a shock to realise just how much it effects me - its the kind of thing that over the years I have gotten used to and just dealt with it as it comes, but now that I am on the journey to become more self aware, and learn more about many of the topics discussed in this forum (such as healing, energetics and the like) I want to be able to learn to deal with it on a different level.

Anyway.  Thank you once again for your input, its comforting to know that no question is a silly question : )

Alright so I've started on this quest to become more self aware, and learn about life outside my own physical one.  And I've felt that I have been getting somewhere, and that I am starting to become aware of more than just my physical self.

Unfortunately I am one of these females who gets extreme PMS and it seems to be blocking my progress.  Perhaps its just that I'm not advanced enough to know how to look past this "depression" (I'm not normally a negative or depressed person) and its frustrating for me.

I am wondering if there are other females out there who also suffer from extreme forms of PMS and how do you deal with it so that it doesn't block your progress, and should I just wait a few days and ride it out and then get back to my "training" so to speak.  What do you think if Yoga - is it a good way to force yourself to relax and be calm if you can't do it in your own home?

These are all proably silly questions with very sensible answers, however I find I have a hard time being sensible or seeing obvious answers when I'm in this sort of frame of mind :/

I am of the opinion that many 'NEGS' are self induced.  That is self-generated or summoned.  Thought=reality.  Keep your thoughts on NEGs and you will get negs.  Keep your thoughts on positive goals and you will get possitive goals.  Is it really that simple?  Only if you believe it is.  If you think it's a hard and long process, then it's a hard and long process.

Have I encounterd NEG's?  Sure.  Do they frighten me?  No.  Knowing what they are greatly reduces their power to affect you.  Many are like Mosquitos or Ticks, basically Astral parasites.  Just swat them and move on.  With a little effort, you can make your home into a place of light and love and never worry about some stray parasite.  Are there strogner things?  Sure, but are you seeking elemental energies?  Then don't worry about them.  

NEG's are Gods creatures also, they do have a purpose.  Sobering thought?  Think that thought stream all the way through, and what does that imply???  God is a kind and loving God, sometimes a little adversity forces you to grow and change.  And a NEG can't affect you unless you let it, they knw that but most humans don't.  Know all that you are and have no fear (caution is not fear).

-Namaste

Rastus -  I do thank you for your response, and I do believe in what you are saying!  I understand about the negative entities, however right now that isn't what I am "afraid" of right now.  Afraid isn't really the right word, however I will use it anyway.

Its the realisation that all of this is REAL, and not just some "hocus pocus" that I read about or that other people experience.  The realisation that one day I too may be able to experience this is exciting, but I know that if I DID experience it right now, I wouldn't be able to handle it.  I have never experienced anything even remotely supernatural or "spiritual" in my life (apart from believing in myself and knowing that I dream) and so want to work up gradually and experience the different levels of "discovering oneself".  Already I am beginning to be more aware of my inner self, and my dreams, and the difference is that now I am determined to concerntrate on expanding that and growing in a spiritual way, rather than just having some "phase i go through".

I guess in the end it will be a progression and by the time I get to the point where I experience the astral realm, I will be ready.  I think I just want somewhere where I can get all my thoughts and feelings, my excitement and fear, off my chest.  I do thank you all for your input and for sharing your thoughts and for listening to what I write!

Selski - Thank you very much for your advice, it really does make a lot of sense

I guess one of my other questions is that I've been reading about all these negative entities that are around the place but that's not necessarily what concerns me.

What is frightening to a degree (I have realised) is the day that I do have some sort of experience (be it positive of negative) (be it Lucid dreaming, AP or OBE) and all of a sudden all these things that I have read about and have seen people talk about is a REALITY.  Does that even make sense?  I am excited about the fact that it could be a reality, but I am scared (hence why I said in my first post I'm not yet ready to have an OBE even though I desperately want to).

Has anyone else actually felt scared about the day this becomes a reality?  Am I even making sense!  I am excited about the whole journey as I can see what a powerful and positive process it could be.

Please do excuse my ramblings, its hard to get all my thoughts and feelings out but I feel that I need to!

Ok.  Here it goes.

I am very new to Astral Projection/Lucid Dreaming/etc.  It started with the fact that I have had episodes of sleep paralysis and never much looked into it until recently.  I had just assumed it was a half awake/half dream kind of thing.  Then I saw some posts on other forums I regularly frequent pertaining to the same thing.  This in turn lead me to Lucid Dreaming, which in turn lead me to Astral Projection/OBE.

Up until now I had heard about these things but never had much thought to learn anything more, as it never really served a purpose.  At one point in my life I was going to church regularly, however this always raised more questions than answers.  I was told what was the truth, yet the questions always were how do I *really* know?  I don't believe that we are here, we are born, we live, we die, and serve no higher purpose.  But the "fact" that the only way to "heaven" was by accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour bothers me, despite the fact that I made that decision and was baptized.  That is a whole different topic so I will try and stay on track.

My reasons for posting here, is that after reading many articles and viewing forums such as this one, where real people report all these wonderful experiences, suddenly I started to realise that what you are all experiencing *is real*.  The more I learn, the more I believe.  But the more I learn, the more I also realise the scary part which is if it *is* real, then I, too, one day, can experience it.

I'm not ready to exprience it now, even though I desperately want to.  I know I am not, because never in my life have I witnessed anything that was even remotely non-physical.  No ghosts, no lucid dreams, no spirits, no premonitions.  These things were all things that other people exprienced and wrote about in books or articles.  Nor had any of my friends or family experienced such things (except my grandmother who had an NDE but I dont know much about that).  This being the case, jumping straight into trying to experience AP or OBE would be insane for me, because I know it would be too much to handle.

What I want to know, is how some of you came to the point you were ready to handle OBEs.  Have you been used to this all your life?  Or were you like me, where you developed a fascination of the subject and the more you practiced the more you believed.  I want to start with something small, very base level, to then work myself up to the point where I am ready to face whatever is there when I finally do project.  I have started keeping a dream diary to record my dreams and am currently learning how to induce lucid dreams, but even that for me is a scary prospect.

I hope my post makes sense and I hope there is someone out there who has been in a similar situation (IE started with no proof, no experiences and gradually has worked up to a point where they can enjoy the experience and get used to it and not be afraid).

I hope this is posted in the correct thread, I wasn't sure where else to post.