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Men probably meant the general term men like human or people of their race, such as mankind means all humans not just men. It is really hard to say who actually said this. Was it Michel who was just telling it or did Thao actually use the term men? Since he wrote this after the fact I doubt he remembers the exact words used, so it was probably Michel who used the term men. Being of one sex he sees things as such and so choose the term men, but I think in the general use and not to designate sex. Remember he had a hard time seeing them as both male and female and referred to Thao as female. If Thao did use the term men, then Thao would see the word differently than you and I. Thao would probably not think of the word men as meaning the male sex since Thao is use to their race not being of one sex, so the word men simply means mankind, people of their race.

Hey taht is petrty cool. I had no truolbe radeing it. Must be the modern age of spending too much time on message boards and chatrooms. lol

I really do not see any belief systems promoted here by those that run the place. I know that there are ideas that get more attention and seem to be more accepted, but that does not mean you have to agree with them. I do not agree with everything here. In these cases I either bring up questions to explore ideas futher or ignore the posts on these ideas. I am not sure what was said in the thread you mentioned as I have not read any of it, so I cannot comment on it. I do know that there some very experienced projecters around here, Robert Bruce being one of them, so when these people speak it holds more weight than someone who has little to no experience. They have gone "out" and explored things for themself. Does that mean that they have seen it all and know the whole truth, probably not, but it does give us an idea of the realms beyond.

The problem with belief systems is that they are not based on your own experience but just what you believe to be true. This is dangerous when exploring the astral because as people have experienced it can tell you it can be thought and emotion responsive. So if you hold tight to any certain belief, be it that there is a demon war or that Sponge Bob is the supreme being, then you can experience this by your own power and not by truth. On the other hand if you hold to such a system but are rational and object yet do not see what you want in the astral, then what? Are you willing to change your belief system?

Do not be offended if others do not agree with you. Do not feel that others have to agree with you. Everyone has their own path to follow. Follow yours and see where it takes you.

If your concern is if APing is safe if you have heart problems then I do not think you should worry. If you feel a rapid heart beat while trying to project it is most likely your heart chakra and not your actual heart.

quote:Originally posted by Soulfire

you were not remotely interested in our honest responses?  

Show me one time when he has been, just once.

quote:Originally posted by Narrow Path

 Gandalf,

Prove to me that Jesus did any wrong or that it was ever even mentioned.

Tab,

The accepting og the OT prophets message is the acceptance of JESUS. He is the Messiah. That is who I worship. Not the messengers.

Prove to me that he didn't. And while you are at it you might as well go ahead and prove that he is the Messiah. And prove where Jesus wanted to be worshipped as a god and that only by worshipping him that one is "saved". I thought that there was only one God and that you are not suppose to worship anyone but that one God. "Thou shall have on other gods before me."

I have not read the Quran so I cannot say for sure. I do know that it is dangerous to take things out of context and use them to support a position. Including the entire passage this sentece appears in might give more clues as to it's meaning.

When I meditate I usually lay down on my bed with the room mostly dark. If it is too bright I will put some kind of blind fold over my eyes. Too bright of light is too distracting. Then it depends on what I want to do. Usually I do some kind of energy work. Sometimes I just clear my mind and pay attention to the darkness. I find that I will usually get vibrations and projection feelings when I am not trying to do so but just meditate. When this happens I will stop what I am doing and give into these sensations. I have found that sometimes the best way to project is to not try.

Blah, drugs are too expense and you have to wait too long to get them. Go to your bathroom or kitchen and get a nice sharp blade and run it deep into your wrists. Or if you have a gun and a bullet apply it to your head. If you happen to have some good alcohol and a bottle of sleeping pills then you can drift off to the astral easy. There are so many easy ways to get to the astral I cannot list them all here. There is one little catch, you can't come back to the physical (atleast in you present body), but the astral is SO much better why would you want to!

I am the owner of a lonely heart, does that count?

How was your consciousness? Was it like when you dream and are not very lucid, or were you more aware than when you are physically awake?

What use would a physical body be to Jesus once he left the physical plane?

Why must only one religion and set of writings be true? Why can't all religions and texts hold part of the truth?

quote:"By their fruits ye shall know them, a good tree bears good fruit a bad tree bears bad fruit".

Does it matter where the tree grew, what soil it used for its nutrients, or whether the water fell from the sky or was drawn from a river as long as the tree produces good fruit? Would you destroy a tree that bares good fruit simply because it grew in another part of the world or used a different kind of soil than what you are use to? Or would you not like to bring that tree into your own garden so you can enjoy it's fruits all the time and have it close at hand?

quote:Originally posted by James S

Mohamed,

See, the thing here is all this info is on the internet, so it MUST be true. []

James.

Is this an extension to the statement, "It was on TV so it must be true"? HAHA

Nice post Mohamed.

Form has little meaning beyond the physical. In other words, anything can look like anything. Move beyond form and look for truth. Don't limit yourself to the physical senses when you have so much more once away from the physical body.

It is very likely you were just feeling your own energy. It can feel rather weird at times. Once I was trying to project and it felt like something was drilling into my head, but I am pretty sure it was only my own energy doing weird things. Most of the time it can very much feel like someone is touching. But if it was not your own energy look at the bright side, atleast someone found you interesting enough to cop a feel on you. []

Just because one sees a spider it does not mean it is a neg trying to suck one's juices. It is probably like when you wake up in a dream but don't realize it and then suddenly really wake up only to think how you thought the dream was really you waking up. Umm ... in other words you are probably briefly becoming conscious in a dream state (on the astral) but just for a second.

Sex, extended time on the astral, yeah you guys have real problems. (note the sarcasm [] and we need a little smiley face rolling its eyes because sometimes you just need to roll your eyes)

Astral sex is different than what most people think of as sex. It is more of a sharing of energies and emotions, much like you want to do. But astral sex is on the astral, so not exactly like what you want to do. Though it is possible that through physical sex you can also join astrally with your partner, though it takes skill. Of coarse if you are wanting to merge with someone that is not a sex partner then that does not help you much either.

I do not think that any such merging is physically possible. I think what you want takes place on higher levels. Only theory, but I think that you can be in the physical and in touch with the astral and merge astrally in order to get to know them. If that makes sense. Of coarse you can always use the primitive verbal form of communication and just ask them.

Did you try to feel your body? What I mean is, did you try to feel like you were in your physical body, try moving your fingers or toes? How was your consciousness? This may have been the astral and not the RTZ, in which case it was not your body that you saw, since you were in your body for the astral, and instead a body you created yourself because you expected to see your "body" there. If you want to go back to your physical body, try thinking about what it feels like to be in your physical body and try moving your fingers and toes.

Thank you for sharing.

They say the price has gone up since you had it done?? From what I have heard the price has slowly dropped a little over the past few years here. Though I have not personally checked, but I talked to a few people who have looked into it. It seems to be a lot cheaper in TN, though I am sure it probably depends on the person's problem. I think the last person I talked to said it would cost around $1,200 per eye.

I have decided to start following the exercises again for a few months and see if it helps. Got to stick with it this time.

PeacefulWarrior, have you been to a doctor about this yet? Or are you just getting ideas first?

vikram88, what is wrong with your father's eyesight? Nearsighted? Farsighted? Is this recent or has he had this all his life, or most of it? Did you find the topic I suggested above?

I do not think that most eyesight problems can be cured with energy alone. Some maybe, but from my studies on this it seems that you need to exercise the eye muscles as well as learn to keep them relaxed and not strained. After doing a search on the net I am surprised at the consistancy of information on this as well as the results that are possible. I suggest you get this book if it is possible: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684814382/qid=1063624385/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_3/102-9456641-7042551?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 or any similar ones. I have decided to start back with the exercises and over the past few days have been impressed with the results. Nothing miracle like yet, but to me some of the results are impressive. And a good thing about this is that what they suggest is pretty much watered down meditation and energy work along with the exercises so it is easy to intensify it to your own level. If he truly wishes to work to improve his eyesight he should check this out. It does require work, but it is mostly just changing bad seeing habits and not very time consuming, unless one wishes to devote more time to the exercises which can only help.

quote:Originally posted by satyrfawn

Zuzee,

 I think Robert Bruce is of the opinion that activity in the Swadhisthana chakra (aka, Sexual Arousal) is a distraction on your way to an OOBE (Astral Dynamics, pp. 195, 196).

 In my sex-magick training, we were taught that it was possible for couples to astral project during sex; that the sex was a ritual designed to propel the priest/priestess out of the physical at orgasm.  For myself, I could never get it to work.  It was too easy to get lost in the pleasures (or politics) that come with having partner.  The men seemed to have a harder time with the technique; I know women that have been able to do it.  They say it's incredible; you shoot out through the top of the head, see stars, etc.  Takes a lot of practice though, not to mention a willing partner.  Probably easier to try another method of projection now that I've mentioned it.  []

satyrfawn

In Astral Dynamics, Robert Bruce also suggest trying to project after having sex because of the relaxed feeling one has afterwards. If you can stay awake it puts you in an ideal state to project. I have had a lot of success projecting after sexual situlation, mostly solo though because when I am with a partner I usually do not wish to leave them right afterwards. I do not entirely agree with Bruce on the Sexual Chakra. I can see where he is coming from and do agree with him that stimulating it can produce sexual energy, but if one knows what to do with that energy, through Tantra and Taoist techniques, it can be very beneficial.

That is interest about your sex magick. I would think it would be easier, at least for men, to try to project while solo than with a partner unless they are very skilled. It would be interesting for both partners to be able to project while having sex. Talk about taking sex to the next level.

I have read the book mentioned by LA FORET MAUVE and practice its techniques. I am a man, so I am not too sure how things are for females. Looking for the book for females by the author might be a good idea. It teaches how to keep your energy and have orgasms. The only possible problem I see/have with this is that with these techniques you do not really get the relaxed feeling afters, but more of an energized feeling. So I am not so sure this in itself will help. If I have this problem what I usually do is draw up and store my sexual energy, and after I have stored a lot of it I will ejaculate (spill over into the expelling energy orgasm). This way I have stored energy and get the relaxed feeling afterwards.

I have talked to a few people, mostly female, who have said that they have had OBEs during sex. So if it is of interest you might want to look into using sexual energy itself for OBEs. I doubt you will find any books on this, so you will probably have to do your own experiments. I know when practicing the Taoist techniques there are times when I feel like I could leave my body, and many times when I have this oneness with the universe feeling.

I think that it is entirely situational and depends upon the people involved. People are too varied to be able to use a blanket theory to answer this question.