Messages

Regarding Golden Dawn and AP,
I know that Golden Dawn tought a technique which is actually a form of phasing and predated Monroe by about 70 years. It involves visualising certain shapes, like a yellow circle on a blue background (not exactly that but you get the idea) and so on. If the individual visulised these for long enough he/she would find them selves able to move within it (in their mind's eye) and from there into the astral itself. There was a whole series of these shapes which opened up to various parts of the astral.

I don't think the technique you are describing is the same as this one of course. The above one is for direct access to the astral, what is now called 'phasing', whereas the technique you describe sounds like a method for OBE to the Realtime zone. I would be interested to hear more about it!

Regards,
Douglas

Novice_

Regarding sleep school,when Monroe was exploring various regions of the astral, he came across areas where groups of people were being taught by astral guides (on various topics, not sure what). He found out that the 'pupils' were people who were still living physical lives and they were receiving these lessons while they slept. The guide didnt seem all that optimistic about how many of them actually remembered anything when they woke up or even if they did they would probably misinterpret it, however I'm sure its all useful and stored in the subconscious somewhere. Apparantly many of us are taught in this way while we sleep, although I can't recall any such situation myself.

Regarding how rotes are used, I think that because they are such a natural form of communication they are not just restricted to communications from others but perhaps also from your subconscious, as you say.

Regards,
Douglas

Trace_

Frank is away from the forums for now as he is busy moving house, however, I believe I can help with the last part of your question.

For some reason we all go through periods of progression followed by peiods where nothing happens at all. Sometimes these flat periods can go on for some time. I know Frank has commented in the past that while he used to get annoyed at these periods, now he just accepts them and waits them out. Sooner or later, your progress will resume, as long as you still have the intent to do so of course. Forcing it won't help, instead just try not to worry about it.

Even while you ARE making progress you can stil get stumped. While Frank says that at times he can phase after about half an hour of focused attention, at other times he will still lying there after several hours! (long after I would have given up, to be honest!).

So don't worry, just keep doing you exercises and wait for progress to resume. You can even take a break for a while, I have done this in the past and found it to help.
I have had flat periods in the past of several months so six weeks isnt that bad!

Regards,
Douglas

Novice_

A 'rote' is just a term that Robert Monroe used to describe a packet of 'information' which he discovered non-physical beings used to convey information to one another. In fact this makes up a great deal of what Monroe calls NVC or non verbal communication, a form of telepaphy which is the bog-standard means of communication in the astral (and also most other physical civilisations in our universe as well -aliens to you and me!).

We think that verbal communication is the norm but in fact it is not. Rather, they think we're weird!

Anyway, as humans tend to disregard all our night time astral journeys as 'just a dream' this means we lose out on a lot of potential IMO. Monroe found that astral folks often try to communicate with us here through 'dreams' in what he calls 'sleep school'. Usually we disregard it though.

Dreams ARE astral experiences, the only difference is the level of awareness, so when you hear of people being confused as to the difference between dreams, lucid dreams and astral projection, actually they are all the same things.

Anyway, the point is, because you are in the astral when dreaming, even although your immediate astral enviroment is a scenario created by your subconscious, you will often be firing packets of information backwards and forwards without even realising. Everyone does this but not everyone realises it. So I don't find it remarkable that you do this often but it is more unusual that you are aware of it.. that's good!

One final thing, as NVC is a standard methods of communication, it is not purely part of the retrieval process, it is just that because retrievals are a more popular thing now, we get to hear about peoples experiences more, hence the rotes.

Regards,
Douglas

PS most accounts of visions and flashes of insight and so on can be attributed to what we call rotes as they are essentially packets of information, although the form that information takes may vary.

I agree. Learning NOT to get zapped back to c1 every time you notice anything unusual is one of the hardest hurdles you have to overcome IMO.

Just have to keep at it!
Regards,
Douglas

kromeknight_

Na, never played that one. I probably won't either if it's anything like my dream!

Douglas

Thanks Ginny, I'll keep working on this area. The more I think about that dream the more sense it actually makes. I think that bit with the ID card symbolised the fact that there was a 'job opening' there for me if I wanted it. Also, when I was standing wondering what the story was with the guy hanging in front of me and in responce I received some kind of vision of his house and occupation, I think this is similar to the 'rotes' that Monroe talks about, packets of information. That is certainly how it comes across to me..

I agree with you about not disregarding dreams or imagination. Monroe talks about sleep school for example, which I'm sue most people disregard or retain no memory of when they awake.
In any case, all 'dreams' are in fact astral experiences, the only difference is the level of awareness. My awareness during this experience was low, but I believe this was just as well first time round as it may have freaked me out if I was at full awareness!

Regards,
Douglas

Ginny_

I want to relate a very odd 'dream' I had a few weeks ago. Now, my astral experience is fairly limited at this point, I usually have uncontrolled OBOs to the RTZ a couple of times a month on average but I have given up on trying to master them and I am busy trying to learn other techniques for going directly to the astral such as phasing or Bruce Moen's technique.

Now, a few weeks ago, I woke up early in the morning to find the vibrations etc quite strong, the next thing I was floating around in the 3d Blackness.
Now, often my experience ends here but this time I was determined to stay the course. I sent out some intent, along the lines of 'I want to go somewhere 'higher up than this'.
The next thing, I found myself in what looked to me like a hotel reception room. There was some kind of desk in front of me. Behind me were wooden or metal panels next to a door way. I'm sure there was a corridor of some kind behind the desk.
I didnt have much time to study the decor however, as I noticed a man walking towards me from the desk. He seemed an older man with white hair. I smiled and nodded to him and he smiled back.
I reached out my arm to shake his hand. At this point I felt myself being pulled back to C1 again so I quickly asked him to grab me, he quickly grabbed on to both my hands and started pulling me towards him. THe idea was to try to prevent me from fading back to c1.
However, he couldnt retain me there and I woke up back at C1, rather disapointed.
The experience hasnt been repeated since although I did have a strange rtz obe last week. I woke up in the middle of the night. In front of me was a football sized swirling white light. My hand was held up in the air and was inside the light. I then realised that this was not my physical hand but my astral one at which point I returned to my body. I think that the light was trying to help me out of my body by grabbing onto my astral hand, but unfortunatly I spotted it and returned to physical. I wonder if the light and the guy in the 'reception room' are actually the same person, just a possibility I was mulling over.
As you can see, I obviously still have some fear elements to overcome but I think I am making progress!
I was reading some accounts of F27 last week on the forums and I read somthing about a reception room. I wonder if it is the same place that I went to?

Thanks for reading,
Douglas

Because the future is not set (Remember the Terminator?). Although it is possible to predict degrees of liklihood (the diviner's skill is in how well they can gauge this liklihood), nothing is set in stone as there is a certain random element in the mix which is an essential part of living in the material world.

Certain random events might well have meant that the 11 september 2001 events did not happen, but things worked out so they did, just as it was a random event that made an american B52/artillery unit mistakingly bomb and kill over 100 civilians (women and children) at a wedding in Afganistan last year.

As Galadriel says in Tolkien's novel The Lord of the Rings, 'not even the very wise can see all ends'.

Dealing with the random element of life is part of what living here is all about. To be honest, things would be a bit boring without it!

Douglas

Ginny_

Thank you for your account, it was really interesting. What strikes me is the sheer variety of regions within the BST. Most people (like myself) think of the fairly conventional 'hollow' heavens and hells when we think about the BST but as your case proves the range is far wider, including people who are addicted to partying!
I'm sure that most cults and even some philosophies have their own regions.
I can well imagine those Heavens Gaters from 1997 (remember them?) who killed themselves to rejoin the 'mothership', I'll bet they are probably flying around quite happily in their BST recreation of the alien spaceship; that will make an interesting retrival!

On a more serious note, BST zones based on christian fundamentalist versions of hell will be less fun. I really feel sorry for those people stuck there, even to know that right now there are people suffering due to these beliefs.
On a related note, I was looking at Bruce Moen's Afterlife site on their forum. There is some talk there about 'demons' and other more negative entities but I'm unsure as to their relation to the rest of the afterlife. Apparantly there is some talk of demons etc in Moen's fouth book Curiosity's Father.

Thing is, I don't buy stories about demons etc as I regard them as part of judeo-christian mythology.
Have you read Moen's fouth book?
I'm thinking that perhaps Moen is not talking about 'classical' christian demons but more of ex humans who are consumed with negativity or something along those lines.

Anyay, great post!

Regards,
Douglas

Animals appear to have astral bodies etc just the same as us. The difference is that animals appear to be on a different evolutionary path to us. Robert Monroe noticed spirits of several of his deceased pets hanging round his house on his astral travels. He also came across what appeared to be an 'ex dog' on the astral who was excited about getting a chance to 'become human'.

It used to be a theory that all life on Earth progresses from the simpest up to the most complex (human), therefor we were all animals at some point. But I am not so sure. I think that the spirits who inhabit animals are here for their own reasons as they are on a seperate path. They learn what they need to here and then depart somewhere else. However, there seems to be an option to 'change paths' and become 'human' in certain cases.
If this is true then at least some of us were indeed animals in the past.

Regards,
Douglas

Shadowatcher_

Well done! I was 13 when I had my first astral experience (I am now 28), however, you are lucky in that you have no problems accepting it.
However, my circumstances were different. Up until I was 13, I had no astral experience at all. then I found a book with astral projection methods in them and thought 'hey, that sounds like fun, I'll give it a go!'.

I succeded on my first attempt but I was not ready for the reality of the experience and was terrified! I was scared of astral experiences for years afterwards. I had no-one to turn to to talk about this (I was only 13 and there was no such thing as the web back then!) so I suffered in lonliness for years, thinking I was the only one in the world who was suffering like this. Unfortunatly, the projection symptoms returned periodically, as Robert Monroe was correct when he said that once you have opened the door to astral projection, there is no turning back.

It wasnt until my mid twenties that I overcame the fear factor, thanks in whole to this forum actually! I have now had many succesful projections and the fear factor is gone.
Its amazing what fear can do to you though. AP is so much fun, and a true blessing, but I went for years thinking it was a curse!

Anyway, good luck to you and remember not to be afraid, its all good!

Regards,
Douglas

There are no astral dimensions 'lower' than the physical. What is refered to as the 'lower' planes are the astral levels just above and still close to the physical level, including confused people who have recently 'died', those in comas, and slightly further up, the belief centre zones complete with all their own artificial 'heavens' and 'hells'.

At the same time, I think it is also slightly unfair to refer to the physical level as simply 'the lowest' level, as if it is the worst. I think the physical is set apart and is unique in that it contains both the best AND the worst that humanity has to offer.

Those more experienced in the Monroe school, such as Frank will tell you that he passes through these 'lower' levels on his way up to f27 and above, but doesnt spend any time there since they are generally full of all kinds of weirdos.

Those who specialise in retrievals, that is rescuing stuck individuals, can often be found on the lwer end of the astral. Ginny is one such member of this forum who does so.

Regards,
Douglas

thanks Ginny,
this area sheds a lot of light on 'ghosts' and hauntings in general.
It also explains why many of these people are so desperate to contact or have some influence in our world as they are so isolated.

While the cases you describe are often trapped in their own little worlds, I sometimes hear of other cases, such as those described by Robert Monroe, who are aware of the material world but cannot interact with it, much to their desperation. Often these people are unaware that they have 'died' but there are others who do know but do not recognise anything other than the physical- to them, the physical is 'all there is', leaving them very isolated. I can't help thinking that this must be the fate of many die hard skeptics.

while many consider that such people can have very little or no influence in our world, I think otherwise in some cases. In many accounts of hauntings, the haunting 'symptoms' start off very small and insignificant to begin with, but if noticed by others and knowedge of these events widens, then the effects grow in consequence.

This is quite common so I can only imagine that people who are responsible for generating such effects are able to 'feed' off of the fear or interest generated, thus allowing progressivly more influence in the material world. I imagine this is possible due to some kind of psychic link being generated betweeen the 'haunter' and the 'haunted'.

Anyway, although I agree that in the majority of cases, these people have no influence in our world, I don't believe this is always the case, especially when you consider that many hauntings progress from small localised phenomena to quite spectacular ones, leading me to suspect that many observers must unknowngly 'lend' energy that allows these people to manifest.
Therefor the idea of 'fear feeders' is not not really that far fetched IMO, simply because fear is one of the easiest emotions to generate in humans, thereby establishing some kind of link.
Afterall, many of these people are desperate for attention.

Regards,
Douglas

Ginny,
Is it the case that all those who are stuck on lower levels are simply unaware that they have died?
I'm sure I read from Bruce Moen or others that there are *many* reasons and although many of these cases indeed think they are still alive, there are others who actually DO know they are dead but are still stuck, perhaps because they do not believe there is anything else, or they are still desperate to reach the physical world for some reason, such as to pass on a message about some perceived injustice for example, this being the reson behind many 'hauntings' that we hear about.

Regards,
Douglas

Im sorry, I just read the article alluded to at the start of this post, it is trully laughable. A calssic case of the christian tendency to regard as 'evil' something that it doesnt understand or accept. Christians always complain about others attacking them unfairly, but then somthing like this comes out, although I agree that in this case, the article was by some fundamentalist nuts. The question here is, why post a link to this forum? I suppose it has stimulated some debate but it wasnt particularily helpfull.

I worry for our world, President Bush of the US is known to be a bible thumper and UK PM Tony Blair is showing 'born again' tendencies. Now they want to save the world. Lets hope they dont try to act out their christian 'apocalypse' fantasies with nuclear weapons and other 'weapons of mass destruction'!

Douglas

The dead sea scrolls are interesting, but no where will you find the name Jesus(or translations)
---------------------------------------

well, this is simply untrue.
If you keep up to date with translations, new ones are released periodically, Jesus is indeed mentioned as part of the extreme essene jewish sect.

The point I'm really trying to make here is that these texts are essentially all out of date, mistranslated, edited, omitted, etc etc and the way that hard core christians, esp the bible belt in America seem to assume that every word is carved in stone, straight from god himself, never fails to amaze me.
Some of these mistranslations have huge implications. For example, in the King James version, it says that 'sinners' go to hell for 'eternity'. However, in the older Greek versions, the word used is 'aeon'. Now the length of time for an aeon varied depending on when it was used, usually it refered to 1000 years, but it was certainly a finite amount of time.
However, in the later version the translator has displced 'aeon' with 'eternity'. While this may be a mistake, the translater has used the word 'aeon' with little difficulty in other contexts, so the replacing of terms is purposeful.

At the end of the day, things have moved on with better information now available. Its like an engineer desperete to hold on to his outdated biplane manual when there are jetplanes flying above him. In the past, the trend was for spiritual wisdom to be taught to those on earth but this has been largely a failure with the many mistranslations, garbling and agenda setting as described above. Now the trend is for us to go *there* hence the increased interest in the astral, obe, such as this forum.

In the end, It doesnt really matter, your beliefs are catered for in the astral, along with everyone elses, but I do encourage you to actively explore the astral regions as you will find them extremely enlightning, especially with regards to the nature of human belief systems, including mainstream religions and science.

Douglas

I follow Christ, not any man made system
----------------------------------

Oh dear...

I'm afraid I have to disagree with that one. From both my experience of the astral *AND* my viewpoint as an Ancient Historian, the religion of christianity (in all its forms), like all other religions, is a purely human construct, but of course, followers of each do not see this and think of their own particular favourite in the same light as you see your yours, often leading to all kinds of problems!
From a historical point of view, you will find that early christianity is quite different from what people know today.

Much of what you would recognise as christianity is down to Emperor Constantine who held a conference of christian leaders in the 320's AD where various basic tenants of christian dogma were hammered out.
For example, did you know that it was at this conference that it was decided (by vote!) that Jesus was a god rather than just a prophet?, Before this time, no one had decided definitavly. Likewise, it was decided at this time that re-incarnation was incompatible with christian dogma. This is all 300 years after the events.

If you go back to the very early dead sea scrolls, you will find a jesus with some crazy extreme beliefs, characteristic of extreme jewish sects at this time, like oulawing fire and only eating uncooked vegetables. It is not suprising that some of Jesus' more extreme notions were 'watered down' as it became romanised, with christianity basically being usurped by the roman elite.

regards,
Douglas

the argument that says re-incarnation is impossible because the population is larger than before has always smacked of pure close mindedness to me. I often hear this argument from sceptics.
Unfortunatly, re-incarnation DOES appear to be a fact which you will encounter if you have a chat with anyone from the astral.
What people have to remember is that all 'humans' originated from outside of the Earth Life System, so in effect we are all from 'other dimensions'. New members join constantly along with those already here in the middle of the human 'learning process', and this is not even including all the animal life forms who progress to a level where they have a choice whether to become 'human'.


Nerezza,  I realise that you follow christian belief systems so you are used to the concept of divine punishment and reward, and are expecting this in the afterlife. You might want to watch this though as the reality is that in the afterlife, your only judge is yourself, no omnipotent white bearded god, sending out thunderous judgements upon people, this is a purely human (judeo-christian) concept.
The afterlife regions are full of people who have effectivly handicaped themselves by believing themselves 'damned' for one reason or another.

Regards,
Douglas

It would appear that the "signal" driving the pendulum is not radiated from the body but is transmitted through the nervous system and activates various muscles as per normal. Only the difference is, it is more of a subconscious activation as opposed to a deliberate one... am I right?
Yours,
Frank
--------------------------------------------------------------

Frank, I think that this is certainly how the pendulum works. In my own experiments I was able to willfully move the pendulum in any direction I wanted, I then realised that I would have to try to keep my conscious mind blank, this way the subconscious could be allowed to flow as it were, sending signals to the brain which cause minute movements in the fingers.
To me it just makes a lot more sense than etheric energy influencing movement, There doesnt seem to be anything for the etheric energy to do!

Also, if you just try a little experiment and pinch your thumb and forefinger together and concentrate on the pressure. You fill feel all these minute movement sensations, it doesnt take much to influence the swing of a pendulum.
While many sceptics involvement would probably end here, this is where I differ as I don't see how finger movement detracts from the usefulness of the pendulum, anything which can bypass the awake mind and allow the subconscious to manifest is very useful, as the biggest stumbling block to all things astral/spiritual seems to be the conscious mind!

Regards,
Douglas

This topic is interesting. I have noticed in the past that there can be a certain sense of 'snobbery' about aliens, ufo's etc by OBE people, as it is perceived that the astral is 'above' such mundane things like ETs and make the subject irelevent.
I have the opposite view. Everyone dreams of the thing that would change humanity's present course. IMO the only really viable thing that could do that for the population at large is direct evidence of ET life, its transforming influence is unimaginable.

I don't have any problem with aliens per say, or the fact that they might visit us. In fact aliens are perfectly consistent with what Robert Monroe discovered about the universe, the astral etc, (which is a big plus for me as I am now an official Monroe fan!).

If you read Far Journeys (his second book - I havnt read his 3rd yet):

He is told by the 'inspecs' (his guides) that the physical planet Earth is a 'consciousness growth centre', specifically the ELS or 'earth life system'. However, they also tell Monroe that there are 'many other consciousness growth centres or schools, as you call them, throughout what you know as the physical universe' (FJ p.97).

Later, in his vision of a possible future earth in the year 3000+ he asks this question a second time (second confirmation, the engineer in him!) he asks one of the 'upgraded humans' the same question and she 'rolled', saying 'you cant count them if you wanted to, there's that many, and new ones coming online constantly! (FJ p.226).

Finally, Monroe's description of the Gathering (FJ, p.229) refers to this possible future event (3000+) in which earth's vibrational level will rise so that its inhabitants become super advanced, kind of a  merge between the astral and the physical. It makes me wonder if the earth would just 'blink out' to outside observers (ie humans living 'off earth' and other ET civilisations) due to its increased vibration.

Anyway, upon reaching earth orbit Monroe actually describes seeing a flying saucer, it is a physical object and  emits 'm band noise' (so there are people inside it). the inspec affirms his suspician and tells him that the physical spacecraft is not a human construct but has its origin 'as from your physical universe, although not nececerely your own time frame'. The inspec says that there are many such craft around the earth and they are there to watch the 'big event'. In addition, there are also beings from other energy systems outside of the STI who are watching (sti: space-time illusion, or 'our physical universe' in which humans and all other 'alien' physical civilisations reside).

So to sum up a long winded account, (sorry, I get carried away with things sometimes!) I have no problems with ET civilisations. These people are just like us, except their 'growth centres' are somewhere else. If you read Bruce Moen he will tell you that one of his own 'disk members' is currently living out a life on another planet in our physical universe. Earth is simply our own local system.

The only claim we have to being unique in any way is that there is a slight chance that we may have been the first planetary civilisation to be created, if Monroe's vision of the early history of earth is true. According to his vision, after the great success of the earth 'garden', others started creating their own gardens and they are now widespread throughout the universe. The problem is that while other civilisations seem to have progressed quite rapidly, we are stuck, which is why so many other civilisations are way ahead of us, even if we were here first!

My view is that the 'Pleiadians' are members of one such growth centre who are activly coming over here to give us a hand.

BTW, as an aside, the reports we get of rather nasty aliens may well be true as well, as I think that although on the whole alens are more advanced than humans, like humans, you get all sorts and some may be less than friendly.

FRANK_
I think you should try to contact some of these guys on the astral.
This is easier than it sounds as 'like attracts like' so people of human origin tend to belong to a particular region of the astral just as I'm sure people from other growth centres reside in their own groupings, thats why we dont bump into them every day on the astral. However it does sometimes happen. Bruce Moen says he has met a few who have come over from their region of the astral to look at ours.
the cultural differences can mean that their region of the astral may be strange, so you would have to be prepared for that if you wanted to do a tour.
I think the problem is getting an ident, without that your are unlikely to find them. Bruce Moen is lucky in that one of his disk members is currently living on another planetery civilisation at present, making it a lot easier.
Perhaps if you ask your guide?

Regards,
Douglas

I would just like to respond to 13's concern (about moving the pendulum) by repeating a point I made earlier in this thread.
IMO the fingers certainly ARE responsible for moving the pendulum, I was never under the impression they were not. But that doesnt mean it doesnt work as described. My view of the pendulum is that it equates to any other divination/oracular tool (like ouija), that is it provides a link to the subconcious. Now, sometimes this will be the only benefit, I use tarot as a tool to start talking to my subconcious. However, sometimes intelligences outside of the subconcious can use your subconcious/unconcious as a bridge to try to get something over to you.

So what am I saying? Well, do your fingers move the pendulum? Of course they do. Your subconcious sends signals to your brain which sends them to the fingers. This way if you keep your mind as clear as possible your subconcious has a means of communication with the awake mind.

Equally a guide or other being may use the opportunity to send signals to your subconcious which then also get transmitted (via finger movement to the pendulum. It is the skill of knowing which is which that is the important factor.

So 13, in my view of how the pendulum works, it is very important to allow the fingers to be able to move the pendulum at a subconcious level, otherwise it will not work. I am not suprised that you have zero results by dangling it from your head or whatever. I was actually suprised when I realised that some people thought it *was* some kind of mystery force moving the pendulum!
However, once it is established that the pendulum can be used for subconcious communication then its function  as a tool for receiving communications from *outside sources* should also be considered.

Regards,
Douglas

My final thought about this thread is that it has been very, very instructive and entertaining, esp when the mud started flying.
I think this thread should be placed somewhere safe and made required reading by everyone coming to this forum.

The instructive value of this thread was not so much to do with pendulums but about the dangers of ego driven beliefs and the effects that ensue when cherished belief systems come under threat from simple reasoning and/or opposing points of view.

In particular, this thread is an example of the danger of people gaining a small amount of knowledge and then going off on an evangelical crusade to convince everyone of the 'truth' of the matter. The old occult proverb 'a little knowledge is dangerous' applies here!
The fact of the matter is that the description of guides that the two main protaganists provide fall short of myself and other's experience of them, ie their description of guides that get upset and go in the huff just doesnt add up.
Also, at one point SeekingansWers states that if you insult a guide then it will go 'for good' . This again is not borne out by most people's experience of true guides.

These two contradict themselves as they advocate direct experience, (a sound strategy) but then get annoyed when others question their cherished beliefs, which we are all meant to accept as 'fact'.

At the end of the day, I agree that the pendulum is a good divining tool and can be used to contact others in the astral but while SeekingansWers and Mayatnik command that only true guides can use this form of communication, I just don't see the justification for such a statement. I see no reason whatsoever why the pendulum is not the same as any other form of oracle/divination, ie open to all and sundry like everything else. Therefore caution and common sense as always, is required.

Regards,
Douglas

"I've been brainwashed?? But I'm not a very religiousy person. I was just asking whatever question came to my mind."

Risu no Kairu
---------------------------------------

You might want to consider the extent you have been conditioned by mainstream religious ideas. The very fact that you asked a question as to whether 'maturbation is bad' is evidence itself. Much of societal conditioning is very subtle!

Regards,
Douglas

Two coments on previous posts:

1)
Squeek, Try to stop worrying about things being 'sacreligious' or not. What you are feeling is the remains of the conditioning imprinted on you from established religion, which I'm afraid you will have to let go of to a significant degree if you want to make progress.

Try to remember that no organised religion, be it Christinity in all its forms, Islam or Judaism, contains 'the word of god' but rather the word of man, in fact lots of men, written over a long period of time, with lots of editing, ommision, addition and delusion. Although they do tend to contain some fundamentally good ideas among all the dross, organised religions are really not worth the hassle IMO and can be should be jettisoned in favour of direct spiritual experience. This is what much 'new age' spirituality and of course this forum is all about.

Of course, this is exactly what organised religious bodies DO NOT want to happen as thir control slips. This is why they brand all these forms of spirituality as 'evil or 'satanic'. Don't worry about such name slinging, although such is the level of conditioning amongst the general public, that even people who are non religious may view your pendulum interest, tarot etc with suspician or fear.
eg How often do you hear the terms 'occult' equated with 'satanism' in the media? even although geniune occultism has absolutly no connection with 'satan'! You will just have to live with this I'm afraid, and hope that one day they educate themselves a bit more!

I sometimes wish people would realise this before trying to blow each other up over the contents of 'sacred texts' like in Palestine/Israel or Northern Ireland, but there you go, organised religion at its worst!



2)
In light of Risu no Kairu's post, people must be careful in interpreting pendulum answers. If you ask sweeping questions you will get sweeping answers. As an example, he asked if 'masturbation was bad' (a common guilt complex created by organised religion again, esp christianity), he was told 'yes'.
Well, this is clearly not the case. As you will find once you do a bit of exploring and asking questions on the Astral, there are no strict rules governing sexual practices 'set by god'. All sanctions on sexual practices are purely human constructs. No one is really concerned about these issues on higher levels. Therefore, all worries about whether homosexuality is 'wrong' or masturbation is 'wrong' are not real issues on a spiritual level although humans continually try to dictate to each other what is good or bad.

Every case has to be viewed in light of the particular situation. So although masturbation is not even an issue on the astral, Risu no Kairu's guide might have said masturbation was not really a positive thing for him at this time, as perhaps it is discouraging him from activly going out and getting into another relationship (assuming that this is the desired objective at this time). So we could say that masturbation is not 'bad', it is just not good for him at this time.
Thing is, how do you get all that into a simple yes/no answer?

PS In actual fact masturbation is a very good thing as it acts as a sexual safety valve that allows release of pent up sexual energy that can be harmful if not vented. As biologists have said, without masturbation, human society would collapse!

This is why people have to be wary about the answers they receive from the pendulum, or carefully consider the question. The yes/no response can seriously skew answers and distort information. I can easlily envision someone getting asnwers to the effect that masterbation is bad or that homosexuality is 'wrong' and then going off and preaching this as 'truth' since they received it from the pendulum. From my small experience of the astral and from other more experienced travellers, these issues are purely human concerns, usually guilt complexes created as a result of organised religion, but I wonder if such conditioning can seriously skew the data gained from divination. I always say that the biggest spoke in the works in divination of any kind is the person doing the divining, so I think a note of caution and careful thought when asking questions is required here people!

Regards,
Douglas