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Yes, especially BB as he had never been human. The first part of chapter 14 always has me laughing my socks off.

Yours,
Frank
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Is it the case then that there are many astral 'persons' out there who have never been human?
I too always thought this the case, Robert Bruce makes mantion of many types of astal beings, right down to astal 'wildlife' as he calls it but also including advanced beings.

But from looking at Bruce Moen's site, his Faq seems to suggest that the vast majority of astral residents are human (meaning that they have been embodied on Earth at some point)

Mind you, perhaps I picked him up wrong as he also mentions all the other physical civilisations out there on other planets, which he deems as being quite likely.

This points out a seemingly differing opinion between Moen and Monroe however, as as far as I can tell, Monroe found no evidence of other planetary civilisations on his travels (we're talking about the RT zone here).
Of course, maybe I've misread it, and anyway there's no law against two projectors having differing opinions!

Douglas

Hi Kodemaster,
It does sound like the astral screen effect. This is common in phasing although you came across it after trying to get to the astral from a normal OBE, which is also possible if you place intent to visit astral areas.
However you arrive at it, the next thing you should do (before it vanishes!) is to step into it. You will then be in the astral proper.

I'm lucky I guess as I get this at random, I just wake up during the night with the screen in front of me, playing some astral scene or other, usually about once a week.
However, it usually vanishes before I have a chance to step into the scene, only once or twice have I been able to go into the area itself and explore it.

Regards,
Douglas

Thanks guys, sounds like FJ is the best one to go for with respect to my curent stage of development, I'll leave UJ until I'm further on as I'll probably appreciate it a lot more.
FJ sounds closer to where i am at the moment - 'the view outside' as it were!

Time to dig out the credit card........

Douglas

phanteprotectsme's experience sounds to me like a combination of two things; firstly, a case of fear projection; it appears that phanteprotectsme is being exposed to low level astral experiences, for whatever reason, however his fear is running completly out of control leading to all kinds of scary situations which he/she describes.

Secondly, all this action may have attracted the attention of some smart arse on the astral who is influencing events to some extent in order to stir up even more fear.
The physical events he/she describes, I don't find hard to believe as with all that rampant energy flying around, it is possible to cause physical effects IMO.

Basically, phanteprotectsme, I think you and your friend need to get control of your fears as they are getting on top of both of you, the fact that you are both involved makes the effects even worse! If you get a lid on your fears you will find that you can gain control of them, leading to them lessoning or perhaps to a situation where you can use this ability for your own advancement.

I actually wouldnt reconmend Frank's advice about going to the PSD forum in this situation, as the advice you would receive there will only make matters far worse!
Sorry Frank

Regards,
Douglas

Yup, the dark figure and so on are all consistent with SP.. all that the scary visions (or in my case voices) are, are fear projections,
once you realise this you will be suprised at how quickly such a scary situation fades and the visions and so on disapear. then all you have to do is sit tight, enjoy the experience and wait for full feeling to return. On the other hand, you might want to go all out and try to achieve a full AP, although as I said, due to the sudden nature of the SP and any residual fear that might still be lurking around, I probably wouldnt recomend it.

Some fear prjections can be quite inventive, once I had what I am convinced was little goblins or elf like creatures trying to pin me down and muttering to me - scary!
The second time this happened part of me was reminded that they were fear projections. as a result they faded away, leaving me in the state of SP without any residual fear manifistations... it then quite obvious what was going on.

I think this is a major problem though, becaue people mistke fear projections as evil entities (I did at first) and this has gone on to fuel the whole 'neg' belief system that plagues everyone on the Psychic self defence forum - those people are convinced they are under attack from negs and this goes on to fuel their belief. Now and again I stop by on that forum but its always the same problem, a lot of them are suffering from SP, they then go onto the astral convinced that they will meet up with evil forces, so of course they do!

Regards,
Douglas

I agree that SP is probably not desirable, simply because it catches you off guard. I think that mind awake/body asleep methods are closely related but the major difference is that you are all geared up to expect such effects and are trying to bring about an astral experience.
However, when you just wake up out of the blue completly paralysed it can be terrifying! Whats worse is that you are actually still in a low level astral state so your fear often takes on the form of 'an evil presense'- it isnt really of course but this is how it comes across since the fact that you can't move automatically makes you think that you are being pinned down by somthing. I often get weird voices and other effects generated by the mind that go along with it.

Once I learned what SP was it has ceased to be very scary although it is still perturbing at first: I feel the 'presense' and so on but once I remind myself that its actually all my own fears then it vanishes and I am fine with it and wait for full sensation to return, although I am yet to try to push the experience towards a full AP.
However, due to residual fear that might still be hanging around from the initial shock of the SP, it would probably be a bad time to induce an OBE. For this reason, No, I do not recomend SP as a means of AP.

Regards,
Douglas

um, I have'nt heard that one but it sounds like really specific and not the sort of generic line that could apply to just about every situation imaginable

I've just thought, taking a leaf from Nostradamus' book, why don't we invent some vague prophesies that could be applied to just about everything and see what happens!

A famous case of this happened recently with some fake WTC attack prophesies, alleged to have been by Nostradamus but were in fact made up... the speed in which they spread round the net was amazing, and you will still get people quoting them as if genuine..
BTW it was'nt me who started them!


Anyway, as to your point, I never heard of the 'bush prophecy' but it sounds pretty lame in any case!

Regards,
Douglas
Regards,
Douglas

Well, its not absolutly confirmed that Babylon = Rome, but it IS the most likely answer. The early christians were a rather radical lot and much of the revelations 'prophesies' may well be veiled messages about trying to bring down Rome.
Interestingly, some recent research has indicated that perhaps the christians DID set fire to Rome in the great fire of 64AD, as recent findings has shown major fires in other Roman cities which seem to date to the same night; the date in question does coincide with an important date in the early christian calender.
So perhaps Nero was justified, as the christians were in effect 'terrorists' from the Roman point of view. In any case Nero was not as bad as he is painted by Holywood, sure he was a bit mad but the allegation made that he set fire to Rome on purpose is discredited in most academic circles today.

The christians were keen to paint the earlier pre-Constantine emperors in a bad light and Nero was good propeganda, the catholic church even calls him the first anti-christ, but this is way over the top as usual! BTW Constantine, who made the empire christian was no saint by a long shot.

Regards,
Douglas

PS I think I've went way of post, wer'nt we talking about the signs of the second coming: THE FIREFLIES! THE FIREFLIES!

Apologies for the horrific spelling in the above post, but that's what happens when you post when you're half asleep at 1:30AM!

Regards,
Douglas

help, not ANOTHER 'second coming' prophesy!?

Am I the only one round here is is sick and tired of these?

These kind of ideas are typical christian apocalyptic mythology from good old revalations, they were very topical for the time they were written, and for the select readership to whom they applied but I wish people would stop tyring to apply them to modernout of context situations, its like people desperatly trying to get a square peg to fit in a round whole!
Maybe it because I'm an ancient historian (so I suppose I've got a bit of Rome bias - aarrgggh! I'm one of the enemy..soon to burn in hell!).
In fact most of the apocalyptic mythology was referring to Rome itslef as it was meant to enourage resistance to Roman rule using this veiled message - Babylon = Rome.. it would be to obvious to incite such rebellious stuff openly.. however this is where the big problem is, becuase it was a veiled message, fervant christians try to apply it to out of context situation, like today.. It might be good to remember that Jesus appears to have preched that the end of the world would occur in the lifetimes of those around him (which it didnt) so bible thumbers should stop whittering on about judgement day and so on 2000 years later!

Also 'goingslow' is correct, the world is no more unstable or more warlike than before, this idea is a complete delusion, promoted mainly by those who want to push their 'war on terror' campaign down everyone's throat... the reality is that we've all had it easy over the past few years, beleive me, if you go back 100, 200 or 2000 years you'll find things much rougher!
Study your history!

Douglas

I agree this war is wrong.
everyone agrees that Saddam is a Maddas but invading a country because they 'might pose a threat in the future' is not valid or legal IMO. You can't invade a country and impose democracy on it, the whole principle of democracy is that it comes from the people and the people have to make it happen, just like they did everywhere else, Romania, Serbia, Russia India (when it was under British rule). Sure you can give them aid and so on but actuallyinvading is wrong.. Bush seems to think that iraqi's will 'thank US troops for liberating them' but if you actually talk to iraqi's you will find that no, they do not like Saddam but at least he is one of them, they would not appreciate foreign powers coming in and taking over the country.

The biggest danger is that 'pre-emptive strike policy' which basically just means we can attack whoever the hell we like and screw the UN, sets a dangerous precident.
Where next?
he US likes to critisize the UK for its old image of going around 'policing' the world, but this is just what the US is trying to do now!

Douglas

>aent tarot cards aganst the "rules" forchristian and catholicn people?>
n/a
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Exactly why people should have a go and find out for themselves, I think you must realise this by visiting this board which in itself would be regarded as 'occultist' by the same 'authorities'.

Remember the word 'occult' means 'hidden' and refers to true knowledge and understanding, not religious dogma, occultism has absolutly no connection with 'satanism' although due to church propeganda the two words are seen as the same in mainstream thought.

Occultism or seeking after hidden knowedge is seen as dangerous by mainstream religion which is why they discourage it so much.

In the end you have to make up your own mind about whether you want to begin the great journey of finding out things yourself, or just accepting the good old 'safe' dogma of established religion, whatever form of it you adhere to; the choice is yours.

For me, after having many astral experiences, I was no longer prepared to ignore them or feel they are 'bad' in some way, I wanted to go and explore them for myself, from that point onwards, I was released from standard religious dogma which I realised had been holding me back for so long!

Regards,
Douglas

Silva_

Crowely is controversial in some circles (esp conservative christian circles) as he was very anti-christian, in that he was against the dogma that plagued mainstream religion and in particular christianity. Crowely was very much an occultist in the real sense in that he believed that people should find things out for themselves.
Unfortunatly though, Crowely had a wicked sense of humour and liked nothing better that tinkling of conservitive christian circles by referring to himself as 'the great beast' and a 'self confessed satanist' and so on!
However, if you actually read his books you'll find that (like any true occultist)Crowely didnt even believe in the devil, other than as an archetypal image.
However try telling that to the christian hardcore, or in fact much of the mainstream population who are so indoctrinated into mainstream religious dogma that for most people 'occultism' = 'Satanism',(how often will you find these two terms refered to in the same breath by the media?) although hopefully most people here will realise that the true occultist doesnt even believe in Satan!
Mind you the goth/nu-metal scene with its fake pseudo occult/satan style mythology probably doesnt help public conceptions!

Anyway, back to your point about the Thoth deck. Crowely's deck is regarded as one of the best in the world but it is an advanced deck with a lot of archetypal imagery and require a good grounding in occult theory, for this reason many people will prefer other decks, however if you are well up on your occult knowledge then you will love the insight they bring to your readings!

Regards,
Douglas

Concerning the vibrations, it is now my opinion that the vibrations are in fact 'always on' but we are not aware of them. When we shift our point of awareness we slowly become aware of them, they feel more powerful as we focus on them.
I think this is what is happening with 'energy raising' techniques; there actually isnt any 'energy raising' going on as its always there anyway. Instead the technigues are designed to make you more aware of them.
In this way RB and others are not wrong in their ideaas about energy raising and they do work, but they may work in a slightly different way than described.

Regards,
Douglas

I agree with what ur saying Adrian, although I'm not sure about the atlantis mythology.. I can't get my head around that one.

Douglas

Ralphm is right.
Dreams, obe's, lucid dreams etc are all the same thing, you could say they are ALL astral experiences. The only diffeence is your level of concious awareness.
So in a normal 'dream' state you have next to none but in a 'proper' astral experience you have a high level.
In a dream, you are in a low level astral enviroment that has been created by your sub-concious to play out scenarios that are on its mind. If you achieve a higher level of awareness, ie a 'lucid dream', you can control this or even dissolve your self-created suroundings and go into the astral proper..
a classic obe on the otherhand is full concious projection into the 'real time zone' or physical realm. However, just to make things even more interesting, the awareness problem is still a factor, so you can have a projection into the RT zone with a very low level of concious awareness, in this case, many people pass it off as 'just a dream'.

Regards,
Douglas

Hi Ginny,
An excellent account!

From what you describe, these spheres sound like 'disk members' that are experimenting with an altered sense of conciousness where they are just pure 'curiosity', Their curiosity seems so overwhelming that it overrides completely any preoccupations with self-awareness.

As a (rather crap) analogy, sometimes I get so into a computer game that temorarily, the urge to complete the mission or achieve the goal overrides everything else, and for a moment I lose all sense of introspective awareness as all that matters is the game at hand (you would have to be a hardened games player to get this!).

I wonder if this sphere level is indeed a higher evolutionary level in itself or if it is more like a game of experimentation. My impression of these higher levels from what people describe, is of beings playing around with and experimenting with different types of conciousness, perhaps this is one of those experiments - an experiment of being pure curiosity.

Regards,
Douglas

Frank_
I tried this method this morning and got a 'throbbing' sensation in my head, however I started getting it in TWO places, one near the top of my skull and the other somewhere in what felt like the right hemisphere!

Which to choose?

Perhaps instead I should focus on my brow chakra, as I feel sensations there quite often, even when I'm not involved in doing any energy work. Sometimes when I lie down to go to sleep I can feel it slighlty as I drift off. As it seems that my brow chakra seems to be naturally more activated in my case, do you think I could achieve astral states simply by working with this?

Also about focusing on the part of the brain - I was trying to 'feel' what part of my brain triggers vibrations. Is this right or do you actually have to move your entire sense of awareness ie your point of view up there; I would find that difficult, but I don't have much of a problem with concentrating on a certain part part of the brain, if that's what you mean.

I'm thinking of firing up the old f27 mp3 soundtrack on my personal stereo again, as this would probably aid this process!

Douglas

I found this reference on a web site:


'In a BBC TV documentary of 5th February 2003: "The Day I Died", more patients related similar experiences
Pim van Lommel concludes: "NDE pushes the limits of medical ideas about the range of human consciousness and the mind-brain relationship."

I don't know how you'll go about tracking the program down however, unless someone reads this who happened to tape it.

Regards,
Douglas

Sorry, I can't find any more details about it. maybe I should just type in the title into a search site?

Douglas

Frank_
I tried this method this morning and got a 'throbbing' sensation in my head, however I started getting it in TWO places, one near the top of my skull and the other somewhere in what felt like the right hemisphere!

Which to choose?

Perhaps instead I should focus on my brow chakra, as I feel sensations there quite often, even when I'm not involved in doing any energy work. Sometimes when I lie down to go to sleep I can feel it slighlty as I drift off. As it seems that my brow chakra seems to be naturally more activated in my case, do you think I could achieve astral states simply by working with this?

Also about focusing on the part of the brain - I was trying to 'feel' what part of my brain triggers vibrations. Is this right or do you actually have to move your entire sense of awareness ie your point of view up there; I would find that difficult, but I don't have much of a problem with concentrating on a certain part part of the brain, if that's what you mean.

I'm thinking of firing up the old f27 mp3 soundtrack on my personal stereo again, as this would probably aid this process!

Douglas

As for scientists generally - they are usually staightjacketed into only believing what they have learned in University or their own research,or fits within their own rigid framework of "understanding". They usually reject everything else that is outside this framework for fear that it might disrupt their whole lifes work, or send them into personal chaos and turmoil.
Adrian
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I have often heard the argument posed by materialists that people believe in 'paranormal' realities as it provides a form of comfort and security in an otherwise bleak world (often accompanied by a patronising tone!).
Despite the fact that even if this were so, it doesnt actually detract from the question of whether paranormal realites exist, I have found that the exact same argument can be made against materialists themselves; if everything is explainable and understandable then it provides a sense of comfort and security to materialists plus the fact that they can revel in the fact that they are at the pinnacle of evolution and understanding - another source of comfort and security.
Just go and visit a group of scientists. I know a few at university, astronomers no less, who when they are all together discussing their subject (I joined in for the ride) I had the distinct impression that such meetings provided this sence of security that comes from the notion that everything is explainable.

I think at the back of peoples minds are the half-perceived horrors of the wide open abyss of infinity (Lovecraft style cosmic horror) so the sciences provide a safe-house against this; although the lovecraft vision of the unknowable pitiless unicerse is untrue as well IMO, but I think that Lovecraft represents 'the materialists nightmare'.

Regards,
Douglas

Concerning the belief centre zones, I think these can be a real problem as they contrbute to re-inforcing religious dogma and other beliefs here in the physical. Sometimes you hear of fundamentalists (and sometimes mainstream religious people) who report contact with 'higher forces' who go on to re-inforce their original beliefs, say you were a christian fundamentalist preaching hellfire and damnation and you started recieving meesages confirming your beliefs, from some spititual source.
These messages will confirm their beliefs but what they won't realise is that they stem from belief centre zones. I think that this highlights a major problem at the moment where people take messages from higher levels as fact, just because they are from higher levels, however, some of these sources are just as deluded as everyone else!


Douglas

Excellent progress Clandestino!
The white screen you saw certainly was the 'astral cinema screen effect'. What's really encouraging is that you got it through waking effort, whether I usually get it at random by waking up and finding myself there!

Keep up the good work!

Douglas

Thanks for your input Frank.
I find these tube structures and other forms of gateways really intriguing, in fact I've really got the urge to explore them further, however this will involve getting more adept at getting to the 3d blackness state first, as I feel I need more practice in this area.

Regards,
Douglas