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I am continually reminded of the early Christian church...the believers that formed together after Christ ascended...they called themselves "a peculiar people"...even God identifies "His church" as a peculiar people.  

I think that religous groups, at least most of them, lose track of the fact that as one becomes "closer to God" and distances his or herself from "the world" (the physical plane- or what the senses percieve as whe whole of reality) then the eyes are truly openened and one's potential- endless potential- becomes apparent.  

Those who choose to see only a small part of reality limit their possibilities...and thus the things we understand and discuss are simply ludicrous and unreal to them.

I understand how you feel and here you will find many who "see" and "feel" those things you do...


Edited by - daniel on 22 March 2002  23:32:02

I think along the same lines as Egollum...usually one allows such entities to attach in some way, usually due to some unconscious weakness or negative habit.

I would continue to practice excercises to purge these attachments, but introspection and self-improvement...although seemingly "simple" are truly the most effective, as well as difficult, methods of brushing away negative energy.

No one else seems interested in answering your question...so I'll take a shot at it.  

No, I don't think there is a way to be more or less inclined to having a spontaneous OBE...well, on second thought, there are general things I believe work.  Your attitude, beliefs, desire, etc. all have a great impact on your sub-conscious and therefore on the type of experiences you are likely to have.

Don't give up!

Zugzug mentioned what I had been thinking for a while, the documentary.  "The movies", at least here in America, are no longer- at least for the most part- what most of the original artists of the genre ever intended them to be.  After taking a film class a while back at the university, my eyes were truly opened... most films in America are "junk"- I still enjoy a lot of them, but the sensationalization (I know...I made the word up!) of the art has desentitized audiences.

Anyway, a documentary combining the NDE and OBE experience, with accredited doctors, philosophers, scholars and men like Bruce- all sharing their studies, experiments, etc. and then also testimonies from people like US would truly make for a great film.  I think it would be revolutionary, at least for those individuals open minded enough...  it would require a great director and a certain "detachment" from religions, although a section about how different religions incorporate the phenomena into their belief systems, would be great...

Do you see where I am going with this idea...the only problem is funding/production.  If someone were serious enough, however, I would--and I am sure a lot of you would...definetly pitch in.  If I were a millionaire I would fund it myself.

Man...I am excited now

Here is one I know about, although there are indeed many versions:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bos/bos546.htm

Andy, thanks... very interesting comment.  I will try to post the link to where I read about the whole car and physical body symbolism...

Later!

..."good" cause and a "God" cause...



Edited by - daniel on 22 March 2002  06:45:11

I think I speak for pretty much everyone when I say that we'll do whatever we can.  I know that I will keep this in mind and do what I can as an individual to send positive energy to a god cause.  Keep us updated!

Jason,
I see your point...and I feel this is the conclusion on the topic.  That's why angels aren't down here all the time, yet it does remain an issue for negative beings on LOWER planes than this physical.  This is not the lowest, but any degree, of the planes.

Edited by - daniel on 23 March 2002  20:01:40

I think it would taint the subject...and to be a "blockbuster" would mean to twist the truth to a lie..

If it comes out though, I will see it!

travrai blue robes-
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I found your reply quite thought provoking, not the words necessarily...but where it trasnported my thoughts, if you know what I mean.

There's one point, however, that I beg to put under the microscope of thought.  Good and evil ARE different and they BOTH have to be in order for the other to exist... BUT I delcare that good (light) is better than evil (darkness).  Why?  Maybe it's because I am in the light, or striving to be in the light, and I like the way it feels.  I also see that evil always desires to drag light down with it to it's miserable state.  I also know, from my own experiences, that darkness never feels good about itself and always despises evil, while on the other hand light feels bad for darkness and wants to pull it forward.  

Forgive the ill used metaphors and weak stylistic flow of my thoughts...
 

"Satan" is definetly real.  EVERYTHING has it's opposite.  Light/dark, good/evil, sweet/sour, good/bad, God/Satan...

CS Lewis once said something to this effect:  The greatest thing the devil can do is convince people that he isn't real...



Edited by - daniel on 19 March 2002  19:13:57

Posted - 15 March 2002 :  23:52:04      
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Thanks to all who responded regarding my questions earlier about thinking and stilling the mind. Below is something I came upon that Robert Bruce wrote (author of our favorite book), that I found very helpful and mabey some of you others will also:

"It is possible to enter the trance state while thinking, but it takes much longer and your thoughts 'change' in quality. Your thoughts wind down and slow and you start thinking on a different level, with the deeper mind. Your surface mind thinks trivial thoughts that just pop into your head. This is the level you need to shut down. 99% of the OBE experiences of people you read of do not make a full wake induced exit, but have spontaneous or semi spontaneous exits. To make a wake induced exit, the surface mind, all thoughts, must be stilled during the exit stage."

I think this is a vital point to understand for everyone who wants to have an OOBE... if we can't get to this deeper level of thought...the "trance state" (I don't really like that term, don't ask me why though...) then we are not going to have a conscious, fully wake OBE.  It's that simple.  That is why I, along with he majority of others, who have had an OBE, have experienced the phenomena spontaneously.

Yes, diet is totally an individual kind of thing...in other words, what you eat is up to you because everybody's mind, body and spirit are different.

With that said I still believe that a diet composed of mainly fruits and veggies, and very little meat and dairy products, is a safe bet for everyone who wants to "transcend" their bodies and rise to "new levels of perception"...

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

Falken,

(lo so che parli l'inglese, pero ti scrivo in Italiano perche ho bisogno della pratica, ok?)

Ciao!  Spero che le parole che gli altri hanno scritto possano aiutarti.  Nella fine SOLAMENTE TU puoi cambiare la tua vita e come ti senti.  Non dare tutta la colpa alle persone che ti hanno fatto male. . .ovviamnete loro riceveranno cio che meritano, pero tu devi cercare dentro la tua anima.

Non ho tanto tempo per scrivere ora, pero ti dico questo: in Italia le persone giudicano molto e mi dispiace per te perche persone come noi (tu, io e le persone in questo <>) siamo diversi...e in Italia c'e' un gran desiderio di essere come gli altri (to conform).  Uno delle cose piu importante di ricordare e che Dio ci ha datto delle debolezze e pure dei talenti.  Focalizza la tua mente e il tuo cuore su quelli talenti e cerca di dimenticare le tue debolezze...e' difficele, pero e anche possibile.

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

I guess I am not the only one who doesn't know much about this...OR no one really cares how negative entities can affect people on the physical plane.

Look at the Andria Yates trial...she heard voices, etc. and look at where she's at now.  What was it that drove her to do what she did?  Most ignorantly declare "She's just crazy!"  I don't think it's that simple.



Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

My technique for relaxation is simple, but it isn't for everyone.  I law in bed and find the perfect position that makes me comfortable.  Then I think about all of those things that my mind naturally wants to turn to, ie. what I did that day and what I need to do in the morning.  I find this useful because it allows me to avoid being distracted later by these same thoughts.

Next I just let my mind wander for a while, imagining and also scratching all the itches that seem to come up later to disturb me.  

At this point I lay and focus on breathing and simply relaxing and imagining.  I do this until I am very sleepy and want to go to sleep. At this point it is dangerous becase many times I am tempted to just roll over and fall asleep, but instead I clear my mind and start relaxing my muscle groups and focusing intently on my breathing.  I find that getting myself to the adge of sleep naturally relaxes me easier than conscious relaxation.  As I breathe I imagine sucking positive energy inside of me and expelling negative energy.  

Now that I am relaxing and focusing on my breathing, I begin to imagine floating out of my body...or I do the rope technique, depending on how I feel.  

Sometimes I end up falling asleep only to reawake to strong vibrations, and then at that point you know what to do...

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

Ciao Falken,
Ho appena letto il tuo messagio e siccome studio l'italiano (sono della California) ho pensato di rispondere nella tua lingua.  Mi dispiace del fatto che altre persone ti hanno fatto del male...pero non ho capito come te l'hanno fatto.  (mi dispiace se il mio italiano non e' proprio buono..e' da tanto tempo che non parlo in italiano)

Prima vorrei sapere un esempio di come qualcuno ti ha fatto male.  Forse perche sei una persona "buona" e hai avuto fede nelle persone, e poi ti hanno fatto male, ora stai male (ovviamente e' piu' complesso).  Siccome ho vissuto in Italia, capisco come sono le persone li.  O sono proprio innocenti o sono (al meno nella mia esperienza) cativissimi.  Ovviamente non sei uno o l'altro...sei una persona buona, ma intelligente...pero hai avuto contanto con quelli che ti hanno fatto male perche, come hai detto tu, ti hai aperto e poi hanno entrato e poi fatto del male.

Se mi puoi dare piu informazione, forse ti posso dare del consiglio che potra' aiutare.  Per me quando le cose non vanno bene o ci sono dei problemi sprituali grossi, rivolgo sempre alla preghiera sincera, e anche la meditazione.  Aiutano tanto le persone buone che ascoltano ai problemi.  

Spero di sentire da te.  My email: illuminate100@hotmail.com

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

About the "who cam first question"...I believe there was no beginning nor will there be an end, but don't ask me to explain it, give me a few years!

Ps-I think it would be safe to say that Steppen Wolf made it pretty big outside of Canada.  "Born to be Wild" and "Magic Carpet Ride" are staples of classic rock and are still used today in commercials and films in the US... (Ie. Sketchers Shoes used "Magic Carpet" in a recent commercial.)

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

Mobius-

I visited the link which you posted on the previous page and found it to be quite interesting.  Actually I, along with most others on the LDS faith, also know that Christ was married and most likely had children.  Unlike Catholics, we feel that men-priests, everyone- should me married if at all possible.  We feel that family is a vital component to our spiritual growth and thus we believe that Christ was no exception, since he was an example in all things.

The article was very interesting, although I have never given much thought to an blood lines relating to his offspring.

Despite the way everyone wants to view "packaged belief systems" which I feel the LDS faith is not, although it would definetly appear to be to outside points of view... I think the bottom line, speaking of the quest for truth and enlightenment, is that God works from the inside out.  No matter how you open the door to growth, as long as it comes from the inside and entails, as Adrian said, scrutinizing introspection...it doesn't really matter how it happens.  Look on the inside of youself, know thyself...love thyself, purge any negativity and become one with God.  This is the goal.

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

Yes, Adrian you are correct...as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS I pay ten percent of all my income to the tithes of the church, and happily.  It is not mandatory, but it is definetly encouraged.  We have beautiful church buildings, temples, a complex missionary program as well as one of the most efficient forms of church welfare, oh yeah and a world wide charity organization.  The money is meticulously managed and the "leaders" of the church, which anyone can become because there aren't any politics, and do not take any of the money collected from tithes for themselves (which is probably hard to believe).  These are modest men and, for example, all reside in the homes they had before they became leaders.  Many gave up successful private businesses or medical careers to do what they do and because no one in the church is paid clergy, all members have responsibilities.  My fiance's father is a Bishop and the poor man comes home from work and goes to the church five days a week to help troubled youth and talk with people about their problems in general...and he recieves NOTHING but spiritual blessings for his calling.  I think one important facet of organized religion is that if you follow something with all your heart, it gives you the chance to interact with others and share their burdens.

Well, I would like to write more but I gotta run for now...
See ya!
-Dan

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

No to beat the horse to death, but I want to add one last comment to this post.  I think it's important to point out that knowledge and power can be accessed from the "dark side" or from negative energy and intelligences... I think most of us here understand that.  OBVIOUSLY this is not a wise practice however because, as I read elsewhere in the forum, knonledge and power from negative intelligences ALWAYS has strings attached.  Much like this world, on the dark side, nothing is free...you always have to pay a price in the end.  That is why I admonish those you use Ouji boards and other types of tools to channel and other things like this to stop.

True power and knowledge come from  the SOURCE and for no other reason that help the individual.  I would classify drugs under the category of "evil"...the umbrella term used to describe not only "the dark side" but also the "grey areas".

Like nightflier said, "PURITY IS STRENGTH"

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

Besenok-

I hope I may be able to help in some way, or at least help you to begin helping yourself, for true change and positive energy comes from within youself.

First of all, the problems you mentioned where very general, at least in the sense that you didn't give any details about your beliefs or your spirituality.  Do you pray?  Do you read spiritual books?  Other questions I might ask would seem personal, but I will anyway: do/did you or your boy friend do drugs or indulge in any strange or perverse sexual acts?  These are the kinds of details that one would need to know in order to direct you to helpful sources.

In my humble opinion I would recommend that you begin praying to God for help.  YOu can do this in your mind, but perferably out loud.  I would also suggest you take practical approaches to your financial situation... do you have family or friends with whom you can talk and or find help?

I hope to see another post from you soon...

-Dan

Adrian- where are you from?  I believe you mentioned it before, but I don't remember...anyway, here in America the schools are not influenced very much, if at all by Christianity.  It is aparent, however, that this is not true for the school system your children attend and I believe this definetly colors your ideology...much of which I agree with.

I lived in Italy (la bella italia!) for two years of my young life and I believe there don't exist too many other countries with the same genre of systematic dogma in the world.  The people there are frankly pathetic in regards to their belief system (no disrespect to the people in general, I LOVE ITALY AND ITALIANS--I speak italian and am always visiting Italy in my dreams, if you know what I mean)...but the Catholic church rules there, in every aspect of life.  THe people are blinded and they suffer horibbly from the effects of spiritual death.

I point this out to allow you to understand that I understand exactly where you are coming from.  Free agency, the chance to choose, is vital ofr an individual to find truth.  I think our real debate comes down to whether an objective TRUTH exists, and I believe it does.  I also believe that before a spirit comes to this world and is incarnated in a physical body, he or she chooses the destination and those spirits who will act as "parents" (they are not always the biological parents).  The debate, then, is whether objective truth does indeed exist and whether or not this life is a continuation of a previous life, with the circumstances of this life being an extension of the previous life...which I hold is the case.


Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.


Edited by - daniel on 15 March 2002  19:12:52

Forgive me for bringing up this topic, I didn't think there were very many young people in these forums...so let me say this:

There is one thing that's for sure, drugs are BAD.  Period.  They bring no true growth, only deception and pain.

With that said, I guess I can answer my own question.  I think that psychadelic compounds, while much could be said to oppose this, drive one to the lower astral...lower vibes, etc.

I think nightfliers comments speak for themselves...he obviously hurt himself and luckily for him he realized it and has moved on, as I have.  It's hard when you are young and curious (and immortal as Andy pointed out) to pass by the easy way, but the easy way is usually the wrong way, and with psychadelics and any other drug this is definetly the case.

It's somewhat embarassing to admit ones past mistakes, and I hope my views and opinions won't be looked down upon because of them.