Messages

How do you carry out this kind of focus to the end objective? Whenever I have been out of body I have not been breathing - if before projecting you are breathing but after you are not, you have to stop focus on breath at some point?

For me breathing is like the anchor to the physical, it is the default thing I go to when I get spooked in the non physical.

The best way I can describe it is this...
How do you fall asleep at night?  At one point you're awake... and the next you're not.
The only difference with a conscious projection is that when you "fall asleep", you retain that thread of awareness.

For you specifically, since you've built up that association in your mind (breath = physical), then focusing upon your breath might not work well for you.  That is part and parcel with trying to find that focus which works best for you. 

For someone who can focus on their breathing... it's just a smooth shift of awareness from "here" to "there".  You can even be "there" and still have full sensation of your body. 

Thanks Xanth. I tend to focus on my breathing and the blackness while my eyes are closed. Is it fine to focus on two things like that or should I try to focus primarily on one or the other?

Well, I'd probably focus on just one thing at a time... pick the one which you feel will hold your focus the best.  If it doesn't work, switch. 

You will learn with practice that your breath will go on it's way and you don't need to watch it anymore, just give it some rhythm at the start and let it do it's job. It took me months to make it automatic. If you check your breath or any body parts frequently, you will not getting anywhere.
Just start your relaxing and relax your eyes, you don't need them to stare. Try to switch to behind them - it is like you are in a dark bubble or behind a dark wall. You will see the difference if you are experimenting.

You misunderstand, the entire point of watching your breath is to give your mind something to focus on. 
It *IS* your focus.  If you're not watching your breath, then you need to find another focus.

Basically, it doesn't matter WHAT you focus on, just so long as it's something which can hold your attention for extended periods of time.

You actually CAN use body parts to focus on.  WHAT you focus on doesn't matter... it can be, literally, be anything.  For example, if you want to place your entire focus on the big toe of your left foot.  As long as you're focusing on that to the exclusion of everything else, then it WILL work for you to project with.

Yes indeed all these functions are needed for game to work but i find it suspicious because other games where are let's say same things as in pokemon go as i remember didn't ask permissions like this also i am not sure when they say " Get Acces to " does that grant them remote acces without me knowning or it's just needed for the game.

Anyways i can live without pokemon go xD so really not worth risking, indeed no system is safe but still giving more access is not also better : P

Well, I guess it COULD give them access to, say, take a picture without your knowing.  Sure.
However, consider this... think about how fast people are able to reverse engineer apps these days.  There is *ZERO* chance of any developer putting code in their app which gives them that kind of access without someone finding out about it.  There are too many nerds out there doing the heavy lifting of breaking the apps down and reading the lines of code.
Then, if there were any company out there (ie: Nintendo, Microsoft, etc..) were found to do this, they would INSTANTLY destroy themselves.  Nobody would ever trust them ever again.  Their market value would zero out in no time.

No company who is profit driven (aka: ALL of them) would commit suicide like that. 

Thanks for the in depth explanation. I have actually been thinking about trying that first method recently. Might give it a shot now that I know someone actually consistently uses it.

In the end, the technique/method you use, isn't really as important as the "focus" that technique/method provides you with.

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2015/01/21/design-effective-astral-projection-technique/

You could probably say that the "Focus" you choose to use to project with *IS* the technique/method, since that's really all that differs between EVERY SINGLE technique out there.

The whole Pokeman Go thing reminds me of Kingsman

http://www.businessinsider.com/kingsman-church-fight-scene-extended-2015-6

ROFL!  Just hopefully VASTLY less violent and... y'know... murdery. 

I did but I run out of pokeballs im in lv 6 😞😂

Pokestops! 

I was playing it like for 3 days then i saw that it asked way too much private info from me so i deleted it

Those actually aren't very unusual requests.  If you're worried about stuff like being tracked, then simply having a smart phone is probably not the best idea for you. 
Those particular permissions are all required for the different aspects of the game in order for it to even work.

[will yourself]

If this topic has been covered already, I apologize.  It was sticking in my craw this evening, and I had to spit it out.

There seems to be a great confusion regarding the Rope Tech, at least from all the posts and books that I've read and interviews that I've listened to.  The same misconception can be applied to many techs., but I'll stick to the Rope Tech for this discussion.  You can apply the info elsewhere on your own.

Too many 'Teachers' try to tell you that the Rope Tech will allow you to project out of body.  This simply is not correct in the truest sense of the word.  This misconception is what causes a huge amount of aggravation, especially as people new to OBE try to apply the Rope Tech at the wrong time.  They think that it is a method to shift consciousness from the physical to the non-physical, that it takes you from waking reality into the Astral or where ever you think you go.

But, the dark secret behind the Rope Tech (which I never use, by the way) is that you already have to be OBE before it has any possibility of being effective.  You are not in waking consciousness, or a physically oriented state, when the Rope pulls you out into the RTZ.  It can't. 

All the Rope Tech does is use your mind's inability to recognize the non-physical state that you are in and apply a physical-type action to put your OBE consciousness into motion; so you finally realize where you already are.

All you actually have to do if you are in a condition where the Rope Tech works is will yourself to rise into the air.  That's it.  That's all you have to do because you are already in NPR, and you and your surroundings are thought responsive....not physically responsive. 

So the next time you think it appropriate to throw that rope into the air above you, just will yourself to rise.  If you don't rise, the bloody rope won't do you any good either.  Dive deeper into the experience.  Shift further into phase.  Keep willing yourself cross the Veil.  When you have fully engaged the NPR, then toss up the rope if you really feel that you have to.

Good luck with it

Dude!  You nailed it! 

I don't think I could have written anything more concise myself!

So on a completely different note... anyone playing Pokemon Go? 

I'm a solid level 5 now!  \o/

And with that... the lock.

What if the topic is mathematics?

[and how does "Big Truth/Small Truth" discussion constitute devolution?]

The apple doesn't exist.

Until you realize WHY the apple doesn't exist... you'll never understand the rest.

[I've wasted enough time on you]

Wow.
Xanth says to Robert; " I've wasted enough time on you, because it's clear you're not interested in doing anything other than pandering to your ego".

But Robert is the one who is disrespectful. Even though Robert asked Xanth for an example of disrespect in his posts and received none. While Xanth asked Robert for examples of patronizing and condescending examples of Xanth's posts and Robert immediately provided such. And here Xanth takes it even further and resorts to outright insults/putdowns.

Will any of the other moderators here have the courage to step up and inform Xanth he is out of line?

Is there a double standard here?

I'll just quickly point out, you're right, and it was changed before you even made your post.
I'm not that cold hearted that I can't admit when I'm wrong.    Please accept my apologies.

Your turn now. 

NOTE: Next time if you have any concerns with ANYTHING anyone (including myself or another moderators) says... please don't post it on the public forums.  PM someone, if it's about me, then PM another Moderator.  They will be more than happy to assist and bring you concerns to the group.

["Eventually you'll figure out...]

Thanks for playing the straight man, Xanth!

"Eventually you'll figure out..." is a very good example of one of your patronizing and condescending comments. 

To make a long reply short I will just say, imagine me doing a line by line quote of every sentence of your post here and me saying, "false...false...false...false...."
I basically disagree with everything you said.

Whatever floats your boat. 

There really are ways of identifying if someone has truly visited a place. If there is a place called "Hawaii" and someone describes it as a desolate place of dry sand that stretches for a thousand miles -- well it is easy to conclude he wasn't really experiencing Hawaii.

But see, now you're trying to use something "physical" and trying to use it to make a non-physical comparison.  It doesn't work.
Take the "Astral Pulse Island" for example...
There are lots of people, even today, who think they've visited "THE" Astral Pulse Island... but did they?  How do they know?
They saw a beach probably, they might have even seen a pyramid... is that a good enough description that tells you 100% that they were experiencing THAT specific Island? 
No, it's not. 

6 years ago, I made this post:  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_spiritual_evolution/what_i_think_is_true_and_youre_dumb-t30656.0.html;msg255544#msg255544
Now, follow that thread through.  At the time I didn't understand the concepts of "an objective reality" vs "a subjective reality".
"no_leaf_clover" was kind enough to explain things, which I then brushed off at the time (sorry NLC!  ).  I look back on that thread now and get a good chuckle of just how ignorant I was.  6 years on now and I understand now why that apple isn't an apple and never will be an apple.

THAT is why I say that, even you too, will understand eventually.  It's the natural progression of understanding... especially for people who are so hooked on labels and a hierarchical view of reality.  Eventually that concept breaks down when you dig deep enough into it.  Again, take that however you want.  I learned a long time ago to not be held hostage to OTHER people's emotions. 

There really are some universal telltale markers for the astral plane and the mental plane, and the realms beyond duality.

What I mean by "true astral" is not as opposed to false astral... unless we can call a bright, crisp, vivid experience of the RTZ, "false astral" -- then yes... that *is* what I mean.

Hmmm, let's see if I can reply to you on your own terms NLP-style;

Eventually Xanth, you'll actually start getting OBE on a regular basis and maybe actually reach the true astral plane and then you will figure out that Robert was right all along.

How's that? (See what I mean when the shoe is on the other foot?) 

See, this is what I mean... there actually AREN'T "tell tale signs"... there are only beliefs you have which you've self-reinforced through other beliefs.
The day you realize that everything you know is only a belief/opinion is the day you'll realize another personal truth.

But meh... for now, I'm off, because it's clear you're not interested in doing anything other than pandering to your ego.

In one of my projections, I acquired a magical orb. I was just wondering if the coloration could indicate what kind of power it held.

I definitely agree with Robert.
However, I'd suggest for you to figure out what that particular colour means *TO YOU*... as it's going to be drawn (mostly) from yourself.

To be honest, Xanth, that comes across as a little patronizing and condescending. But that's okay, I can handle it.

Why does what I say illicit feelings of "patronization" and "condescension" in you?

"The Truth" is Truth and those who make genuine progress come to agreement on this. When a large team climbs a mountain those few who reach the pinnacle are in the same place. The many who only get halfway up can be very far apart. To say one climber's personal 'truth' is different from another climber's personal 'truth' is basically meaningless. The climbers at the peak are in agreement about Truth and they are in disagreement with those in a different spot, down the mountainside. Also, the halfway up bunch might be either together or very far apart... but they are all far from the peak/Truth.

I think the main reason that there is so much "disagreement between labels such as "astral projection", "lucid dreaming" and even "dreams" is because so many people with so little experience like to pontificate on the matter when they really know almost nothing about it. It is not just a matter of a difference of opinion. It is a matter of a very few knowing what they are talking about and a large mass of neophytes who have a few vivid dreams or get OBE a couple times and suddenly they act like they are some sort of expert on astral projection. But the problem is that they really and truly are genuinely wrong. I know you disagree with this but that is what I have discovered after decades of practicing and teaching and hundreds of projections to various levels of the cosmos.

For example, a popular notion that has gotten traction recently is that "astral projection", "lucid dreaming" and "dreams" are one and the same. I understand how easy it is to come to this conclusion. If 99% of people who get OBE never get to the true astral plane this is exactly what they will conclude. And for them it becomes true because they stop trying to reach the higher ethereal realms. (It still doesn't mean they are right).

All you're saying here is that you don't believe the "new", "popular" notion that those labels are the same thing.  That's fine.  Nobody is demanding you believe those things.

See, now I think it's a silly notion to say that there's a "true" astral plane... compared to what exactly?  A false astral plane?
You can't ever know what someone else experienced.  Even if they provided a perfect description of what they experienced... you still wouldn't know. 
Why?  Because you can't have their experience.  You have NO IDEA WHAT-SO-EVER what they experienced. 
So for you to sit there and say that what someone experience WASN'T what they said it is... is laughable at best really.  Although, it certainly doesn't stop people from trying to do just that.

Here's another article I wrote on that subject:  http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2011/09/02/addition-to-your-non-physical-perception/

In the end, your entire supposition is based upon the idea that someone out there has it "correct"; that someone out there knows "the TRUTH" about reality.
One day you'll learn this is a fallacy in regards to non-physical experiences and that the only truth is that "nobody knows the truth".
Comparisons such as you mountain one you spoke about are only valid within the confines of the same system (ie: comparing physical to physical).

Yes, someone linked to that site of yours yesterday and I read some of it.

"Dream Awareness" ...... "Lucid Awareness" ...... "Astral Awareness"

You do realize, don't you?... that is the basic framework of a hierarchical belief system that makes use of labels.
... just thought I'd mention it.

You missed the point of the article.  It's an exercise in explaining why labels are ultimately useless in the attempt to define our non-physical experiences.
They're all, ultimately, the same experience.  There is no such thing as a "lucid dream", "astral projection"... or even "dreams".  What we humans call "dreaming" is an experience that doesn't exist.

So what does exist?  What exists is an experience which happens in a reality identified (during or after) as not being this physical reality where you have a varying level of awareness.  That level of awareness is really what defines the experience, not that it's very important... but for those who use and enjoy those labels, that's what it is. 

As I said though, some people enjoy using labels.  Some people will take a long time to break free from that kind of linear thinking, so the article also provides them something to grasp onto which comes as close as I can get to being a label-less ideology.  I try to encourage people to step out of that box though.  I encourage them to try and see consciousness and reality as a more fluid, non-linear experience and that this physical reality is part and parcel of that experience too.  Taking that perspective shifts the very idea of what an astral projection even is. 

The ultimate goal being changing the concept in someone's mind from astral projection being something you DO, to a state of mind you ARE.  You don't DO astral projection.  You ARE astrally aware.  Then it doesn't matter what reality you're in, you have a frame of reference.  Right now, for example, you're having an astral awareness experience in this physical reality.  When you fall asleep at night and have what we humans call a "dream", you're not "dreaming" (because that's an experience which doesn't objectively exist) you're having a dream awareness experience in a reality which isn't this physical reality.  It's all relative to "here". 

Eventually you'll figure out that even the terms "physical" and "non-physical" are horrible labels as well... and eventually break down when you dig deeper into them.  There's really no such thing as a "physical" vs "non-physical" reality.

But now I'm rambling.  Feel free to ignore me at this point. 

I have a few minutes to reply...

I truly hope that's not true... (in fact I'm pretty sure its not).
You did just tell me recently to "Feel free to disagree with my "opinion" all you want"...?... right? I hope that's really okay, then.

It's the one constant in discussion of these topics.  Nobody has the right answer, there are only beliefs and opinions.
Hence, there's nobody here who can stand up and say that they have "The truth", unless they're talking about "personal truth".

The Truth is vastly different from Personal Truth.

Of course, but 'experiences' and 'definitions' are two completely different things. Language is quite useful and plenty sufficient to describe things outside this physical reality.

Language is physical in nature.  It breaks down as soon as you attempt to use it to describe non-physical experiences.
This is why there is such a disagreement between labels such as "astral projection", "lucid dreaming" and even "dreams".  
Give my book a quick read and you'll understand further.

A "model of a hierarchical reality" is not a belief but a construct that facilitates common ground for discussion. It is not a "defined Belief" but a 'model'...

First, we'll say this: a model is only a model and only represents something, but it is not that thing.
Secondly, a model based upon what?  The (as I like to call it) "classical model of reality" is nothing but mere belief... as everything else discussed on this forum.
It's one of MANY kinds of models we discuss on this forum.

Note also that I HAVE NEVER BELITTLED ANOTHER PERSON'S EXPERIENCE.

And therein lies the problem... it's become such a normal pattern of interacting for you that you don't even know you're doing it.
To be extremely blunt (I'm like that), you're actually very rude, but that's besides the point.  Temper your knowledge with understanding... it goes a long way.

You may be oversimplifying here. I understand that you may say tomato and I say tomahto. I understand that some say 'truck' and others say 'lorry' and both words mean the same thing.  I understand that some say 'elevator' and others say 'lift' and both words mean the same thing. But when someone wants to say that 'truck' and 'elevator' are the same thing I might feel inclined to disagree. If someone says my elevator is better than that guy's truck for cooking breakfast I might feel inclined to ask, "What?".

I think I know the recent exchange here that you might be speaking from on this (the one of religion vs spirituality).

Among new agey types there is not just an acceptance of anti-Christian bias and even hate speech, but an almost sort of a camaraderie and encouragement they give each other. On basically all AP & LD and other metaphysical type forums Anti Catholic bigots and covert Christian haters seem to get a pass for some reason. There really is a double standard in this sense. Anyone who dares to speak up in defense of the more religious sorts is quickly reprimanded and often banned, usually on blatantly false trumped up charges.

Allow me to provide a quick link for you to peruse:  http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/
That link should give you a good starter on my perspective.

And I am just asking for clarification. What does "color coded" mean? Why ask this? In what context is this?

There are colors on all the lower planes. But *color coded*? I am not sure what is being asked.

I understood it as asking if the colours we classically/historically associate with certain magical/spiritual things here (aura colours, for example) also apply in the non-physical as well.

I'd say no, because it's all unique to the observer.  Just as everything physical is also unique to the observer.

What are your thoughts on that?

With all due respect, Xanth, I am not sure that I know how to reply.
I am not being facetious at all. I am sincerely mystified by your suggestion that any part of any of my posts are disrespectful.

I'm just asking a question here. 
Trying to create a dialogue.  That's all.

It is my intent to 'develop Spiritually' by doing the hard Work of improving Consciousness via the opportunities granted to me by "being on Earth".
(So... it is not so much, "Can I do both?"... but more like --- You *have* to do both... or, at least we are supposed to, ideally...)

I'm curious as to how *you* "develop Spiritually"?  What opportunities do you consider as being advantageous to your own spiritual growth?

Whoa there guys. 

From my own perspective, no... at least not as in much as things are "colour coded" here in this physical, anyway.

Apparently, you have never been to the astral world. Why are you asking?

He's just asking a question.

...

I don't have the time nor inclination to play your word games Robert.

Post with a bit more respect towards the members and their beliefs and you won't have any problems.

It's clear you have MUCH to learn... and I don't mean from a Projection-viewpoint.

Some people say most of the people don't reach the 'astral realm' some say most of the people don't reach the 'real time zone' or 'physical realm' so which perspective is true?

Probably the one you believe in the most 

Part of my perspective is that we're already existing within an "astral reality".
This physical reality being just another of an infinite number of such realities.

I doubt anyone really knows or if they do can't say so clearly because the vocabulary on this subject is something many play fast and loose with.

You don't have to "doubt" that nobody "really knows", because NOBODY REALLY KNOWS.  There's not a single person who exists today who "REALLY KNOWS" anything about consciousness and reality.
All each of us can do is speak from our personal experiences... that doesn't mean anyone is playing "fast and loose" with definitions.
"Language" (English or otherwise) is extremely inept at describing things which fall outside the limits of this physical reality (ie: spirituality, astral projection).

Projecting directly into a misty/foggy realm may not be the True Astral Realm but more like the Real Time Zone as coined by Robert Bruce (I believe). Devolving rapidly or even immediately into an LD is very common and I would guestimate that about 95% of the so called astral projections I read about on these forums never got close to the true Astral Plane.

Also, you seem to have a very "defined" belief on how you view consciousness and reality (ie: you follow the classical model of a hierarchical reality)... please understand that not everyone sees things the way you do.  
We try to be a very inclusive forum where people of many different opinions come together to share their experiences without having to have them belittled by others.

Experience is unique to the experiencer.
We all use different labels and definitions... it's better to try to understand the labels and definitions someone else is using before simply calling theirs wrong (thereby deeming your own "correct").

Please keep that in mind when posting here.    
If you have any questions about this, please PM me.  

I agree. But I also see this as being "a sign of the times". Hard work and dedication is sorely missing in this "NOW" generation!  

OMG yes.  >_<  LOL

So many people growing up today simple want everything now and aren't willing to do what's needed to get there.  I guess they feel they "do enough" with education or something?  LoL

I think this can lead to confusion because the Ancient Ones teach that there really is a place/plane/region that is called the Astral Plane. But many people can project with a relatively high degree of control and yet never get close to that particular region.

Given that about 95% of OBE travelers never get to the astral plane (not to mention the realms above that) it is purely academic but I think it would be nice if the distinction could be made and agreed upon.

Also, of the few who do accidentally stumble into that realm, most are unable to make it back for repeat visits, so they begin to downgrade the early experience and glom it in with the rest.

That's assuming that one believes in such a hierarchical nature of reality.

I do not.

There is no problem. 

But there is a problem...
Too many people come here asking questions about pills wanting them to become their only doorway to projecting.

THAT is a huge problem. 

which is known as a "tool".

I agree, kind of.  It's not a tool I would *EVER* suggest to anyone.
Especially if your goal is to do this yourself.  There's no replacement for hard work and dedication... not popping a pill and having it do it for you.
You don't learn anything doing that... and more importantly, you miss out on the most important part of all this: the journey.

You find out so much about yourself through the journey... skipping it, even for a brief glimpse, is like robbing yourself.
Sadly, that is something people don't learn until after they've already ruined it.

I disagree.

Feel free to disagree with my "opinion" all you want.

It's clear that we're simply using different definitions.

You're a very... "by the book"... sort of person it would appear.