Messages

[/Though I suspect there will be a small minority who are naturals at it.
Yours,
Frank
i]

Yes, Or you could get a fool like me who was able to easily project on my *very first attempt* but chickened out when I was 13.
Now that I actually *WANT* to project I cant!
I have to deconstruct all the psycological inhibitors that I have placed around AP to get a result. It's a pity because I think I would have been quite good at it, I'm not trying to boast here or anything. But I ended up shooting myself in the foot! anyway, here's hoping that I get a result soon, and that you do to!

Regards,
Douglas

Well, if you want a fairly reliable way of going there then give the technique I described a go.
It works quite well I think, as I am still not a very good APer but even I started to feel the pull and the sensation of being drawn into the black circle, I stopped then as this time I was only testing out the technique, it works!

Regards,
Douglas

[affirmations made on the Astral can have some profound Physical effects.
/i]

Well, the black void area/state seems particularily good for this, according to those who use it. It seems that (as all good magicians already know), with skill it is possible to radically alter physical circumstances.

There's one old occult proverb I heard somewhere that says
'The fool allows himself to be ruled by his stars but the wise man rules himself'.

Regards,
Douglas

Well, I think its only a matter of time befor Mars is colonised.
Possibly the most realistic account of the colonising of mars is the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson..........amazing stuff, I have little doubt that it will proceed in a way similar to what he describes, with all the politics, social issues etc involved. Give it a read! By the time I had finished them I felt that Mars was totally familiar to me! A trek up Olympus Mons anyone?

Anyway, must stop as this is an OBE forum!

Douglas

I've heard of techniques of drawing (feeding) of energy from other people.
Find someone preferably asleep and try to drain some of their energy into you.

This is the same technique that could be construed as 'neg' techniques, and I would be morally against this.

Shows you what might be possible though, even if it alerts you to the possiblility of someone else doing it to you!

Douglas

WOOOOOOOOOWWW!!!!

That sound pretty amazing!
It could all be true, what the message is relating to you.
However, bear in mind that it might be a yarn that some astral beings are spinning for you as an excuse to mess about with you.
I think your right, the beings are not 'evil' as such but are naughty and the female entity was obviously not chuffed with them.
I think though that they have returned on the sly and are continuing to mess around with you. The communication was probably designed to try to get you to accept this.
Perhaps you might want to look up some of RBs ideas for getting the little b*****ds to get lost, or perhaps you should just have it out with them?

On the other hand, perhaps the message is correct, but I think that it sounds more like a generic contactee story that the beings may have plucked from your mind or the mind of others and are using so you'll accept their fun and games.

Very interesting anyhow!

Douglas

This is all really interesting.
Frank, I can see that it is difficult with all the myriad of astral beings out there to tell where they all come from (for some of them, that astral region is their home turf, for others they maybe advanced projectors) and so it is difficult to see who is alien and who isnt. By the way, by alien I mean beings from other phisical civilisations/worlds than ours. I recognise that on an astral level we're all made of the same stuff, but many beings may have different phisical heritages. THIS is what I am interested in here. I think that this would be an excellent project, to contact other beings on the astral who evolved from another phisical civilisation.
I still think that contact with other RT phisical civilisations would still be one of the biggest turning points in human history. I know that several people here seem to be of the opinion that it doesnt matter, that they dont really care if there is or not, but they should not underestimate the impact of such a discovery.
I think that the technique if perfected is much more direct than any of the technological means of attempting this such as seti etc. (Of course no hardcore scientists would acept any of the findings if done this way but never mind, at least we would know!)

Back to the original point though,
Does everyone agree that (ok so I accept that it is posible with effort to project into space) some of these so called space obe's, especialy where people travel to Venus and contact adamski style venusians etc have slipped into the astral without realising it?
I am interesting in knowing the difficulty threshold here as I fancy doing a bit of exploring in this area myself in the future!

Regards,
Douglas

And when you fly off into space you are not escaping any astral realms. They are not centered around Earth as if rings or something. They are part of everything everwhere. Of coarse I could be wrong but this is what I have concluded.
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I dont mean it that the astral realms are rings as such.
The astral realms are made up of the colective 'dream pool' of humanity and so exist around/within us on the earth.
I think it makes sense that a planetary population creates its own dream pool or 'astal realm' as we call it. So a planets astral realm is specific to that civilisation.
Therefor, Mars doesnt have any 'astral realm' as such because thee is no population to create such level..... however if it was colonised...

Just my idea....   So civilisations each have their own astal realms specific to their own worlds.
Of course this doesnt rule out level of existence up and above astral realm... RB describes some of these, but I DO think our astral world is inherrinlty linked to us here on earth, other races probably have their own, therefor we dont really mingle very much.

Back to the original point though, I accept that magnitism does not affect us astally as such and yes, maybe we can leave the Earth this way.
But I think that it probably is quite easy to slip into the astral as you try to leave Earth, and many people dont realise this, and come back with all kinds of fantastic stories.

Jeff, Your lunar obe sounds good though, try checking for the old landing grounds on the sea of tranquility next time... that would be great!

Regards,
Douglas

Bloody hell!  To all americans on this forum - 'STOP SPENDING!'
Its all part of the buy now pay later culture that is also causing so many problems in the UK as well.
Ask yourself, 'Do I really need this? Will I be a happier person in a months time?' No, you'll just be in more debt.
I'm guilty of this myself.
I havent got a job over the summer, so I've racked up about £500 on the credit card.
But, the line must be drawn here...... I start a job next week.
Oh, just so you know, by the time I've finished my degree I'll have amassed the grand total of £15,000 student loan debt!

AAARRGHHHH!!!

Douglas

Its ok Frank,
Those werent 'heart felf beliefs'! It was just a notion I was toying with and liked the idea of but I'm open to any progression on the subject. I think it is a matter of perspective, of how you view others.
I like the idea of the 'etenrnal struggle' idea but now with he following modification, now I'm thinking, that maybe this is a metaphor for the constant struggle within each person, between their spiritial side and their more animalistic inclinations or between the ego and the subconcious. They both need to be in balance for spiritial growth. I dont think there's anything 'wrong' as such with either. This is where I disagree with buddhists who would have you believe that the ego is totally evil and corrupt and must be destroyed. This is far too extreme.
In my view, all we are talking about here is balance.

Thanks for your input!

Regards,
Douglas

Why did the Romans slaughter thousands of people for entertainment in those coliseums. Because that was an evil society. Romans viewed compassion as a weakness, and ruthlessness was viewed as a strength.

Qball
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WHOOOOOW NOW!!!!
I'm a member of a Roman re-enactment society so of course I'm biased, but hey, it was not an 'evil society. In fact much that you hold dear about western politics/society (and what you dont!) is based on the Roman Empire.
Sure it had its bad parts, such as gladitorial fighting etc but so does any society. You've been watching too many of thiose moralising Holywood movies of the 50's/60s or reading Gibbons omnious tome 'The fall of the Roman empire'.
Dont get me wrong, I like Spartacus and Ben Hur, but they were all told with some kind of Christian moral viewpoint (christians obviously being biased)which makes the Roman empire FAR worse than it was!
You OWE your society to Rome Boy! (and Greece).

PAX ROMANA!!!

Douglas

Hmmmm . . . a thought . . . are vultures evil? How about bald eagles and other carrion birds. Predators in general? If rodents were human, they'd probably assign the term "evil" on those things coming out of the sky, seemingly from nowhere. However, because they are not human, probably all they are thinking is SH*T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tisha
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Its ok, i'm not trying to find evidence of evil in the traditional sense, I was really discussing whether thee are entities out there, just as in the human world who are not very nice and take advantage of other for their own benefits.
Its not evil as in the biblical/western sense but I think negative is an ok term to use in that it describes someone who wants to be horrible to someone else.
So I would describe Hannibal Lector as being negative in that it wouldnt be very healthy for me to be around him, whether he (or I) is in spirit or flesh!

I see whee you are coming from in saying that we have much to learn from these characters so in this sense every 'negative' experience is actually not so because it is promoting growth.
If that works for some then fine, But for me,  just because the effects of a nasty situation may be crucial for growth, its twisting things round to say, 'well it was actually good for me, nothing that happens is trully bad'. That may be well and true, but it doesnt detract from the nature of the being in question that has affected you.

What you're describing is a way of viewing such contacts/experiences, a perspective, but this doesnt detract from the rather nasty nature of some beings/people.
If they affect me, adversly or not, even if it IS for a divine purpose and I need this experience, I would still describe the being doing the harming as a negative influence.

As you say, its all about perspective.
All I'm saying is that there are some beings out there who would like to harm you, just as in the real world.
If contact with them is required for personal growth then fine.
It comes back to the baance thing I was talking about earlier.
'negative' experience is there for a divine purpose, so that we can learn by overcoming adversity. So you are right from a gestalt perspective to say that there is nothing truly negative.
Compare WW2
You can say it was not negative from a greater perspective due to the fact that it was a harsh learning curve for humans, but I would class the war itself as being a negative experience with some negative minded people.

Anyway, I'm talking sh**e now so I'll stop, I can't even remember what I was talking about...
AARRGHHH! It's the negs screwing with my head............... only joking.

Douglas

Actually, I agree with you Frank and I like what your saying.
Do you think however, that it is possible for a spirit to end up engaging in the activities that I speculated in my post?
As I said, a simlar situation on the phisical plane would be that of a serial killer who becomes addicted to his activities and finds enjoyment/energy in doing them, he is unable to stop.
I think its possible for spirits to end up doing something similar, especially if they are tied to the earh plane. In fact, I was thinking  that you might want to do this to gain enough energy to *remain* on the earthplane, especially if you consider the possibility of someone who died but was determined not to 'move on' as such.
He/she might be determined to do what ever possible to remain here, if they have some knowelege of energy and its principles then i think it might be possible.

Douglas

Hmm,
I think the idea of a negative being makes good sensse though.
negs are said to feed of negative energy.
One of the easiest neg energies to produce is fear (and one of the most powerful)
All you have to do if your a neg is to get your victim scared shiltess and you have lots of tasty free energy.
So you're average day would consist in scaring people out of their minds and generally making their life a misery to benefit you. Its not cos your evil, its just the easiest way to do it.
so you are now a 'negative' by definition.
are you evil as well?
I would say so. although you are doing this as part of a plan to get energy for yourself you are causing suffering to others which is bad.
Secondly, although you are causing people distress only so that you can access their energy, wouldnt you begin to enjoy it after a while?
I believe that  a being engaging in this kind of activity over a long period of time would become 'warped' to a certain extent and proceed to find great enjoyment in tormenting people.

I don't think this is too far fetched, I think its quite possible for a spirit to go down this path, just as in the phisical world, serial killers become addicted to killing, once they start they cant stop.
All this is negative and can be described as evil in the sense that we are talking about beings phisical/non-phisical who do nasty things to others for their own benefit/enjoyment.

Douglas

Hmm,
I think the idea of a negative being makes good sensse though.
negs are said to feed of negative energy.
One of the easiest neg energies to produce if fear (and one of the most powerful)
All you have to do if your a neg is to get your victim scared shiltess and you have lots of tasty free energy.
So you're average day would consist in scaring people out of their minds and generally making their life a misery to benifit you. Its not cos your evil, its just the easiest way to do it.
so you are now a 'negative' by definition.
are you evil as well?
I would say so. although you are doing this as aprt of a plan, you are causing suffering to others which is bad.
Secondly, although you are causing people distress only so that you can access their energy, wouldnt you begin to enjoy it after a while,
I believe that  a being engaging in this kind of activity over a long period of time would become 'warped' to a certain extent and proceed to find great enjoyment in tormenting people.

I don't think this is too far fetched, I think its quite possible for a spirit to go down this path, just as in the phisical world, serial killers become addicted to killing, once they start they cant stop.
All this is negative and can be described as evil in the sense that we are talking about beings phisical/non-phisical who do nasty things to others.

Douglas

As Yoda says, 'size matters not.. look at me... judge me by my size do you? hmm?'
(imagine best Yoda accent)

I think its true though, the size of the object matters to you only because the smaller it is, the more aceptable it is to your mind.
At the risk of quoting Yoda again, 'the difference is only in your mind'!

Douglas

>This one is freaky..........2 months ago I was dumped for cheating on my ex, but really I didn't

Of course you didnt, we believe you!  

Sorry, only joking, I've actually been in a similar situation whereby if the other person doesnt trust you enough not to cheat then thee's no point in being together, if its so bad that they actually believe somthing happened then thats even more annoying.

However....
Maybe he's confused mentally due to the whole obe thing, I know you should both cool it but maybe it will work out in the future once he gets used to his new expanded view of the world.... thats enough to unbalence anyone, I know it freaked me until I got used to it, and i'm sure it probably caused me to act towords people in ways that I later regreted.
Its just that its not everyday that you can see and talk to people who are involved with obes, I certainly dont know anyne apart from this forum (thank god for the forum!).

I know, its easy for me to say from over here, but even if thats not an option for reasons which you will know about and I wouldnt, maybe you could both work at being friends.
This way you could both benefit from the wonderful world of obe!
Just a thought.... and probably not a very good one!

Douglas

> read some astral projection books if you read projection of the astral body >by sylvan muldoon (check out your local library they may have it) he stated >what happens the moment one dies, he was talking about one guy he >observed while in his astral body who was addicted to narcotics/alcohol >and his life was upside down, he detailed described his aura was brown >(which was bad) what happened when he was dying and being resusitated >he was in his astral body then he went to grab his booze on the side >which he couldn't then woke up then when he finally died he was in a >really bad state and went franticly into oblivion once out.
>Weagle

What, you mean he ceased to exist? I find that unlikely.

Douglas

Well said Frank.
Sorry Comus but thats one of the hard facts about accepting this greater view of the world.
I too once had thoughts of 'swinging from the rafters' due to the fact that I thought that my obe exit trauma was too much to deal with. (See: OBE fears affecting my health)
but I've learned to accept it as a challenge to overcome and I'm now almost excited about it!
Once you learn about the astral you will realise that as Frank says you will not escape your problems, they will just be magnified. You will be most likely caught up in an emotional loop. You may even end up becoming tied to an area of the real-time plane and constantly relive your negative experience,
do you want to become a 'ghost'?
I learned that everyone must deal with their problems and suicide doesnt help because you will STILL have to deal with the same situation on the astral, only I suspect it will be even harder.
It's just a hard fact of life I'm afraid.
You've stepped over the threshold now so you will realise that suicide is not the seemingly easy option that it once was, you won't 'escape' anything.


The time to deal with problems is NOW!

You've started talking about it which is the first step in the right direction.
It certainly helped me.

Regards,
Douglas

Thanks Trish,
I have an appointment with the doctor for next week so I can get somthing for the sleep deficit, like a 14 year sleep deficit!!!

I remember at one time thinking of going to see a psychiatrist to see if he could help me with my obe 'exit trauma' as RB calls it.
I decided against it however as I can't see your average psychiatrist accepting anything OBE related, he would probably think I was covering up repressed memories of being raped by a horse or somthing

It only twigged recently that in order to deal with obe related problems, I should talk to othr OBE'ers,
I know, Doh!
Still, I got here eventially!

Regards,
Douglas

Well, from what I read of him/his work, he is or was one of the most respected astrologers and occultists in the US during the 20th Century.
He is well up on Kabalistic lore so I assume his nature of evil theory is based on or extrapilated from Kabalistic ideas.

Douglas

>I haven't read it, but it sound pretty fishy to me.
>You have to know to separate the "kukes" from the real mystics. I can't >picture RV saying something like that...
>David

I think Zolar's genuine enough, I think he's well respected in the occult field.

Douglas

Thanks Clarine!

Regards,
Douglas

>It's good that we've been of help.
>Let us know how it goes, ok?
>jouni

Will do!

It will be a real task this though, I believe it will be the biggest personal challenge I have ever attempted. I have been thinking though that perhaps this was meant to happen, that one of my tasks in this life was to overcome personal fear, if so then what a way of doing so!

I will have to set aside a day and say to myself 'on this day I WILL go through with it.
I think that a firm resolution to try it on a certain day will be the only way, this is because already I have felt myself trying to worm out of it, I kind of thought after reading the articles on the forum today, 'oh, maybe I should try it tonight... oh no I cant, I'm going out this weekend, but I WILL try it soon' etc etc..
Basically Im looking for excuses to chicken out.  I guess that running away from the fear is easier than facing it, however, I'm getting more and more fatigued as time goes by so I have to resolve to deal with this now.
  Anyway, I must set a day, somthing like a certain day next week whereby I will make sure that I am free on that day and set it aside as 'projection day'!
I read Robert Bruce's advice about projecting in broad daylight as an aid to fear problems, this sounds good to me!

All for now,
Douglas

Thank you everyone for your kind words and advice!
Its just wonderful after all these years of not being able to talk to anyone about this, now I can share this with you all.. what a great medium the internet is!

I have only recently realised that the only true logical way out is to face my fears, I think I have aways known this deep down but have supressed it. I am now coming to accept it. I think however, that being able to share this with other OBEers (albeit more succeseful ones!) has been so great... thank you!
Concerning your comments about being able to obe on a first attempt.. You say that I am actually lucky in this respect. You know, I never thought of it like that before.... I've always (due to the fear aspect of course) taken this as a negative factor, but you've helped me see it from another point of view, in that its actually a good thing!

I WILL do this!

Thanks everyone!

Regards,
Douglas