Messages

[jealous God]

quote:Originally posted by Follower of the Khuli

God is a vengeful god.  The Bible says so.  In the Bible, God actually told a group of people to kill another group of people for being "bad".  He told them what weapons to use like the "jaw of an butt" and they did this.  He told them to kill the men, women, children, cows, everything, and to not leave one stone upon another.  The army didn't lose a single man.  Of course, the story ends that somebody took some gold and the army lossed every battle after that until the gold was returned and the man who took the money was killed.

You also have other storys like the one with Job that was over a stupid bet with the "Devil".  Yes, God does love but he also is very vengeful.  Check out the ten commandments.  It says to make no engraven images that is in heaven above, or on the earth, or that is in the water.  You will not bow down to them because I am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me...  I paraphased it but that is what it says.

God is jealous and vengeful and don't think otherwise because seriously, if he was all loving then there would be no reason for sending people to "hell".  Everyone would go to "heaven" because he would give them another chance.

This statement assumes that the Bible is perfectly accurate.  If this is indeed a perfectly accurate representation of God, then the only reason to worship him is effectively "Because God will torture and murder me if I do not worship him".  I would rather be tortured and murdered than believe God is really like that...

--Soulfire

quote:Originally posted by Graupel

It was most likely a lucid dream, because in a true OOBE you could not affect matter in the physical (such as turning on a lightswitch).. although I am unsure if it is absolutely impossible to manipulate matter in the RTZ in your etheric double.

I have opened doors and such during RTZ projections.  In a recent experience, after I opened a door, I thought to myself, "That was dumb! I could have just moved through it".  I then proceeded to move through the door that I had half-opened.  Note that the physical door was still closed when I came back to my body, but in the projection it seemed to work normally.  I have never tried a light switch in a RTZ projection, but I think I will next time just to see what happens.  

--Soulfire

["THINK FOR YOURSELF. USE COMMON SENSE?"]

Hi,

Nothing of true value can be destroyed.  I know how these accusations must hurt your feelings Mayatnik (and I am truly sorry for that), but any deeper truth in your work is not dependant on people's assessment of your credibility.  Anybody who is really ready to learn something will find it regardless of any obstacles.  Not everybody's opinion is shaped by other people's words.  Not everyone is ruled by fear.

I advise that you just keep doing the best you can to be honest and open, and try not to worry about any "attacks".  Trust that anybody who is ready for what you have to say will be capable of evaluating it objectively regardless of what other people say.  You have helped me, so I can only assume there are probably others as well.  There have been some really great and sincere questions asked by other members.  All I am saying is that despite the negativity that is present, some genuine value is still being generated by this discussion.  Maybe that is reason enough not to give up or quit?

Some things that have been said are truly hurtful.  I can not say with honesty that I would handle that any better than anyone else or be any less hurt by it.  What I can see clearly from my "outside" perspective is that anything that has been said hurtfully has been entirely generated by fear.  Fear seeing somebody very lost and believing Mayatnik had something to do with that (with no real evidence that this is actually "true" I might add).  Fear of other people being mislead, etc.  The worst things that have been said have been by people who are trying according to their own understanding to protect themselves and others from something they see as a genuine threat.  The manner by which much of that has been expressed is sad and unfortunate, but the underlying message is something I believe we ALL would agree with: "THINK FOR YOURSELF.  USE COMMON SENSE?"

It is my sincere hope that we can all agree to let that last message stand as a universal mutual agreement, and that no more "fighting" will need to be done trying to say it?  It is a simple message.  If some people are not ready to let it go, then let the rest of us consider just continuing to express ourselves as honestly as we know how with no intent to harm, and just do our best to ignore anything that lacks harmony?  The truth will still be there...all we need to do is quit focusing on the drama to see it more clearly...  

--Soulfire

Hi,

I'm not particularly interested in magic at this point in time, but I do love to understand how the universe works.  I keep seeing "universal laws" mentioned, and one person asking where to find out more about them - but I never saw an answer.  I would like to add my vote to the request for more information on universal laws.  Can anybody please point me in the right direction?

--Soulfire

Hi Timeless,

I appreciate everything you said in your post and the warnings are all things that are in my opinion very practical.  I must say however that nothing I have experienced in my interactions with Mayatnik or Edi has violated any of these warnings.  If they ever did, I would be the first to agree with you.  I have not seen Mayatnic or anyone else claim to be a "master" either, nor to "imply" anything like that.

I do not consider myself a "follower" of anything but my own truth.  I have not even decided how I feel about the whole "Alien" topic yet to be honest.  I am just wachting and keeping an open mind.

I guess I would advise anyone to heed these kinds of warnings with just as much "open mind" as anything else, as they are mostly practical.  I think it is important to make our own decisions however and not let the words of another (either Mayatnik or anybody offering cautions) make your decisions for you.

--Soulfire

Cool questions, Birm.  

First off, let me make it clear I am by no means an expert at the pendulum or Aliens.  I am just beginning to explore the pendulum and know next to nothing about Aliens.

Are you sure it is important for you to have a name/label to attach to the guide you saw in your dream?  Only you can answer that, but you might want ao ask the pendulum if there is any benefit to you having that information?

If you are still sure you need to know, maybe the pendulum itself can assist you in learning how to find out?  Consider asking questions like:

Is there a practical way that I can use the pendulum to figure out what kind of alien the second guide in my dream is?

If so: Is the best way of finding out something that I would easily think of on my own?

Is there someone in specific who could help me get this answer? (etc.)

quote:Originally posted by Novice

Apparently they only communicate through the pendulum (which I thought was a form of telepathy) and dreams/astral.

The understanding I have so far is that the pendulum is supposedly part of some kind of astral computer rather than direct telepathy.  You might want to ask the pendulum about that as well?  

Sorry I could not be more help but I hope I provided something useful.  lol

--Soulfire

Assuming your pendulum is producing accurate answers for you, you could try using it to get these answers directly.  Formulate a set of questions from various angles and see what you come up with?

Am I now now talking to one of the two specific individual guides I saw in my dream (instead of just "my dream" though, word it in such a way that it accurately reflects in your mind the specific dream you are talking about).

Then based on the answer it gives, try to come up with more specific questions to approach the topic from a few different angles until you are satisfied with the answer.

--Soulfire

[spontaneously]

I don't think it is probably "dangerous", but I would not advise attempting to project while not feeling well or under the influence of any "substances" personally.  I believe any projections you attempt when you are not at your "best" and most "clear" are much more likely to be tainted by negativity in one way or another.  Note that this does not necessarily seem to apply to people who are seriously ill who spontaneously project.  For me, it seems the process of consciously attempting to project uses up some of my energy, and for this reason alone I think it may not be a good idea when your body needs that energy to heal itself or rid itself of toxins you may have ingested.

I have never personally experienced trouble getting back into my body while OBE, but Robert Bruce's book Astral Dynamics discusses this in some depth.  It's worth reading the full book for many reasons, but essentially he sais that not being able to reintegrate with the physical body only seems to happen when your physical body has fallen into a deep sleep.  (Is it ok to give information contained in a book, or am I violating copyright by doing this?)

--Soulfire

Hi,

I think anybody who is angry and focused on you will transmit various levels of psychic attacks.  I don't think they usually do it intentionally (or even know it happens in most cases), but I think it happens naturally when the above conditions are met.  Also I have read that if a person has negs attached to them, they will often attack anybody their host is angry and focused on.  I am pretty sensitive to negative energy, so a lot of times I feel these things happening.  I cannot distinguish if it is from the person themself or "negs", but sometimes it is much stronger than others.

--Soulfire

quote:Originally posted by Novice

Now, to the point we are discussing here, re the Zeta. I understand what you and Soulfire are stating. I guess my only hesitation is that while logic/untuition would suggest that they are spiritually more advanced. There is also the possibility that they are not.

I was just summarizing my understanding of why that assumption is often made - not saying that I believe it with absolute certainty.  It does seem logical to me and feels likely, but I always try to keep an open mind.  When I use the term "open mind", I also mean open to the possibility that things are not how I perceive them to be "logical" or "feel" to be true.

While I find this entire topic fascinating, I am still just watching with an open mind.  I have not made any semi-final decisions yet about what I believe.  

I have had the pleasure of talking with Mayatnik some on MSN and he has been great.  He has answered my questions to the best of his ability, always shown complete respect, seems very humble, displays a genuine desire to help people in general, and has never asked anything of me whatsoever (including that I accept anything he sais as "truth").  I simply could not ask anything more of anyone than Mayatnik has offered to me freely.  Just my experiences for whatever they are worth...

--Soulfire

[closed minded]

quote:Originally posted by wisp

My opinion is your philosphy group did not go away because of christians.

I do not presume to speak for Tisha, but I THINK what she was trying to say was that her group died because the leader became a closed minded Christian who tried to repress other people's ideas and/or use them for his own personal agenda.

Not all Christians are like that, but unfortunately a great many are.  The title of her thread sais a lot: "A plea for more open mindedness".  Note that it was not entitled "A plea for fewer Christians".

--Soulfire

quote:Originally posted by wisp

Greed, jealousy, and the like are commonly seen causes. Too bad no one seems to notice more causes are from weaknesses including dependency, brain washing,low self esteem,and more.  

The popular prejudice ones has turned it into a smoke screen. Why don't people want to look farther at this one?
Even the word hate is being misused and abused.
God hates things, this is important to accept. God's unconditional love is way over played as far as I'm concerned.

In my opinion, everything you mention ultimately comes as a result of fear:

Dependency comes because we are afraid of relying on ourselves, so we look for something outside ourselves to "fix" us.  If this continues long enough, we begin to believe we are dependend on that outside influence for what we feel we need (security, purpose, love, etc.)

Brain washing is similar: People are afraid and want to find something "better" to believe in...again seeking a false sense of security.  Instead of looking within they look to the outside.  On the part of people who do the brainwashing, they want to control other people.  Why?  Because they are afraid.  In an attempt to compensate for their fear, they seek to control others thinking if they feel enough control and power that they wont have to be afraid anymore.  It never works.

Low self esteem is simply fear that I am not good enough.

Greed is simply fear that there is not "enough" for everyone, so I want to grab as much as I can to make sure I always have "enough".  It is also often an attempt to distract ourselves from our sense of incompleteness via materialism.

Maybe I am "wrong", but anything negative that I have ever experienced, witnessed, or even imagined seems to have fear as its root.  I believe this fear comes from believing the illusion that we are truly seperate from God.

As for God Hating...I don't believe it.  When you have love and understanding, it is (in my experience) impossible to hate.  Even when you see things that part of you thinks are horrible, you have compassion for all parties involved.  Not Pity - compassion.  Sometimes if you get off center you might feel anger or hate, but if you look closely and honestly at yourself when that happens, you will see that your love is temporarily absent.  At least that has always been my experience.

--Soulfire

quote:Originally posted by EnderWiggin

Souflire, I don't quite understand what you're saying. I wasn't talking about killing people to protect myself. I was talking about the moral conduct we have with each other and the ignorance of mankind in general. It is because of this ignorance that we follow systems and become trapped, going around in circles. Break out of the illusions and live life. You only live once, so make the most of it. This site exists here and now for a reason. When that reason has been completed it will then cease to be. If the reason returns, so will the site. As long as that reason exists, so does this site. This is just the beginning.

I was talking more about the deeper nature of "the war" you mentioned.  On many levels, not just here in AP.  Yes from a certain point of view I agree that a war of sorts exists, but it doesn't have to.  And nobody will ever "win" by fighting or attacking "the enemy", verbally or otherwise.  I was not critiquing your statement in any way - just trying to point out that as more and more people become willing to stop being afraid, that "the war" will simply cease to exist.

"What would happen if they threw a war and nobody came?"  []

--Soulfire

[all]

Hi,

We all find it difficult to manifest love in our times of weakness.  We all make mistakes, and sometimes we all hurt someone.  I suggest that when a person is trying to focus on love, whether you judge their attempt to be "adequate" in your opinion or not, that nothing positive is gained by telling them that their love somehow isn't good enough.  I do not think it is possible to make any attempt to express love and not become a better person as a result of that attempt.  Who are we to judge any expression of love from another?  

If some of our ideas come to us from books, then I suggest that maybe those books came to us because they will ultimately help us to learn important lessons internally?  Most things manifest in stages.  For many of us, books provide some of those stages.

I'm sorry...I realize that I do not know the history of this situation and maybe I should just shut up.  It just saddens me seeing people potentially being discouraged from trying to express their love.

Sorry if I offended anyone by sticking my nose in.

--Soulfire

Shadow,

Many of your posts show a lot of thought and insight.  We all make mistakes all the time.  There is no need to exile yourself when you do.  For as long as you really believe you are taking a break because it is right for YOU, then take a break.  But when YOU are ready to come back, forget about the 1 year promise.  You can certainly grow and find yourself on your own, but whenever you feel ready you can do it here too.  We are ALL richer for each of us who comes here to share in peace.  I for one hope to see you again soon.  Until I do, God bless...  []

--Soulfire

It's all very simple: fear and hate.

Stop being afraid, and there is nobody to hate and nobody you have to kill to "protect yourself" from.  Without fear there is no enemy.  Others may still choose to be your enemy, but they will have no power over you if you do not allow fear to convince you to be their enemy as well.  At worst they can kill your physical body or inflict some kind of hardship on you.  "Hardship" is nothing but a lesson that we fail to recognize the value and nature of at the time we experience it.  Death is nothing but the stripping away of all that is not truly who you are.  Either way, there is nothing to lose - nothing to fear...except fear itself.

--Soulfire

[It takes more wisdom to stand up for your rights. My rights are to have an opinion. Obviously you dont believe we should have that right any longer, because you banned goingslow for his opinion. Stop bullshitting everyone.]

quote:Originally posted by shadowatcher

It takes more wisdom to stand up for your rights. My rights are to have an opinion. Obviously you dont believe we should have that right any longer, because you banned goingslow for his opinion. Stop bullshitting everyone.

Nobody was banned for having an opinion or even expressing an opinion.  The banning occured when a person began to launch direct personal attacks against other members.  You can express your opinions and still be respectful about them.  If you fail to do this here or anywhere else in society and resort to attacking people, you can generally expect not to be welcomed back.  Try walking into a restaraunt or any other civilized place and publicly insulting somebody you don't like and see what happens.  Odds are you will be in court or asked to leave and not come back.  AP is no different.

It's not always what you say, but HOW you say it...

--Soulfire

I think the argument that a species with hyper-advanced technology beyond our own would also have more spiritual development can be summarized as follows:

The human race, with our current level of technological development is on the brink of a choice.  We can either choose to evolve spiritually, or we will evnetually decimate or destroy ourselves.  Note that I use the term "evolve spiritually" in its most general sense: we need to collectively learn to let go of fear and hate.  If we survive much longer as a species, and you look at what the survivors are "like", you will find one of two possible things:

1) We will have destroyed enough of each other and our technology that we no longer have the capability of mass destruction.  We will then be temporarily safe from destroying ourselves.  Society and technology will eventually re-develop, and again we will be forced to make the same collective decision with the same two possible answers.

2) The survivors will have learned that living in fear and hatred is not the answer, and therefore learn to move beyond it to love and understanding.

Any race that has the capability of mass destruction that is ruled by fear and hate will eventually contain a person who will unleash that destruction as a direct result of that fear and hate.  They will probably believe they are protecting themselves from their "enemies".  Look at what is happening with the USA and terrorists right now.  How long do you think it will be before somebody who is desperate enough to use it gets their hands on a nuclear or biological weapon and is "pushed too far"?  You can clearly see the violence is escalating.  The terrorists hate the US and the US wants to kill the terrorists to "protect themselves".  They kill some terrorists, and a few innocent civilians by accident in the process, and many of the people hurt by the loss of the people killed in the fighting grow to hate "their enemies" even more and want to kill them, etc.  The only solution is to begin realizing the obvious: that trying to kill "our enemies" is simply not working...

It seems logical that any other civilization with enough technology to develop weapons of mass destruction would have had to make a similar choice.

--Soulfire

quote:Originally posted by Kazbadan

You will see that aliens are not friendly...anyone: pleidians, arcturians, zetas, greys, etc,etc, they all are the same: astral garbage.

Humans are the most inteligent race on the planet, yet the most dangerous.

there are no good people or good aliens. In all my life i just saw self-egoistic people, that helps (when they help) the others if they can get something with that. Goodness,

I don't even know what to say Kazbadan.  The fact that you do not perceive any goodness that is not deliberately selfish in ANY person or being makes it clear to me that your perception of reality is so radically different from mine that I have trouble even relating to what that must be like for you to live like that.

All I know for sure is that you do not HAVE to live like that.  Many people have learned that you can love for love's sake alone without expecting anything in return.  The act of giving or expressing love unconditionally is perhaps the single most rewarding experience I have discovered.  You do "get something" by expressing love, but that something is not anything that you have to "take from" another person.

Try is sometime.  Open your heart, invest something of yourself in somebody else without caring what they choose to do with it or even whether or not they are able to accept it.  Love them anyway no matter what they do.  If you try that just once, you will feel something.  You will realize in that one instant that you became what you used to believe could not exist.  Think about it?

--Soulfire

[indirect]

INTERESTING STORY WITH A LESSON!

As an indirect result of my recent pendulum experimentation, I wasted a spontaneous OBE!  

I have been trying for several days to induce an AP, but have not been successful for almost a week (My success ratio is only about 10% still [:I]).  Last night, after I gave up trying to consciously induce a projection, I went to bed.  As I was drifting off to sleep, I could feel my right hand "drifting" across the bed.  I don't know how to explain it, but in my mind it felt like my hand was being used almost like a Ouija board and was moving by itself.  I have been experimenting with my pendulum heavily the last few days, and I have recognized that part of me is uncomfortable with the practice because I am uncomfortable with the idea of "channelling".  I have become aware that I am not just cautios about, but that part of me is actually AFRAID of it.  As my hand started to move like this, it stirred up the fear I did not know I had, and so I mentally told whatever "entity" was "using me" to please leave me alone...that I was not comfortable with what was happening.

Just a few minutes ago, recollection of this event hit me totally out of the blue (I had totally forgotten the entire incident when I woke up and did not successfully access the memories through my morning dream recall excercises), and I clearly understood that my arm was only drifting because I had spontaneously projected!  I have experienced similar sensations many times, and those sensations have often stimulated my consciousness and allowed me to become conscious in my energy body and enjoy a vivid OBE.  This time, my subconscious fears about "channelling" completely warped my perception of a familiar experience and I failed to see it for what it truly was. I wasted a perfectly good OBE because I allowed my fears to get the better of me!  

I just thought I would share this, because perhaps my story will help someone else from making a similar mistake.  I'm not particularly successful so far with getting what I believe to be accurate answers our of my pendulum, but it sure did teach me a vivid lesson about how our fears can totally blind us to something that would otherwise be quite obvious!  []

--Soulfire

I've never had any actual "pains" like that.  Sometimes I'll have a persistant itch or something, but never severe pain.

My belief?  If you experience actual pain, stop the excercise.  Try again the next day.  Pain is usually a natural warning that something is wrong.  Don't be in such a hurry and don't try to force it.  If you keep experiencing pain and keep trying to "force" past it, you will just begin to consciously or subconsciously resent the excercises and you will eventually quit.  Persistance and consistancy is the key, not how hard you try for a few days or weeks.

Consider the possibility that maybe your energy body has some problems or blockages that are causing this?  Maybe try working with the NEW system for a while and see if that helps?  Keep doing the excercises every day and try to OBE, but then consider that if you start feeling pain you have probably done enough "excercise" for that day.

Maybe I'm wrong, but no matter how I look at this, I feel to that keep trying to "push" yourself after experiencing significant pain is probably not healthy.

--Soulfire

Hi,

Before your friend spends any amount of money hiring outside help to correct this problem, I strongly suggest she read Robert Bruce's book: Practical Psychic Self Defense.  If she lives in a reasonably populated area, she can probably even borrow it for free from a nearby library.  In my opinion, there is a lot of very useful information in there.

Just my 2 cents worth...  []

--Soulfire

It's also worth noting that faith does not have to be completely blind.  It can be built little by little as you see tangible ways that you can personally understand why something deserves more of your faith.  It's been my perception that anything having to do with "Aliens" has an extremely high rate of inaccuracies or even outright fraud.  Regarding the Bible and other religious texts, I can only say for myself personally that I believe some of what is written in them is true because it FEELS true and I can clearly understand why it would be beneficial advise.  Certain other parts absolutely do NOT feel true for me, so I therefore do not accept them.  I accept none of what is written just because somebody wrote it, and other people happen to believe it - or tell me I "should" believe it.

I am not saying THIS is necessarily inaccurate or fraudulent, but I am saying that many people will (reasonably?) require more than words written in an open forum by people they do not personally know well enough to trust, before they will be likely to believe something as radical and potentially critical to the entire human race as what is discussed here.  It is a fine line to walk keeping a working balance between having an open mind and acting like a fool.

I would honestly expect any highly evolved being to be rather disappointed in us if we just accepted something this important with nothing but completely blind faith?  

I'm here, and I am willing to see the truth if they are willing to meet with me.  []

--Soulfire

I believe there is an absolute "truth", but that none of us is able to perceive it accurately unless we are in complete CONSCIOUS alignment with all-that-is.  

Consider the possibility that there are an infinite number of dimensions, or at least more dimensions than any other being besides one in conscious alignment with all-that-is is capable of perceiving clearly.  If you cannot accurately perceive the "totality" of something from every possible "angle", your perception or understanding of its nature is flawed and incomplete.  For example a pyramid will look exactly like a triangle from a certain point of view.  You can even argue that it IS a triangle, the person seeing it as a triangle could mathmatically PROVE it is a triangle, but is that ALL it is?

It is equally important to understand that life experience is subjective and what that means in the grand scheme of things:  It means the "absolute truth" of the man standing and looking at the pyramid but seeing only a triangle includes not only the "truth" about the nature of the pyramid, but also the truth about the nature of the man observing it.  All of that...everything...is also absolutely "true".

I believe the closest we can get to perceiving absolute truth is to recognice that "now I am here perceiving a limited aspect of the totality of what it truly IS...".  It is human nature to label and categorize and judge, but to the extent that you believe any of those things, or fail to take into account how your presence affects the totality of "absolute truth", you also fail to perceive the "absolute truth"...

--Soulfire