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I am being honest that I noticed this with no expectations. I used to have trouble going through windows, but then I realized it was all about my expectations. However with walls and electrical appliances, I swear I had no prior expectations, in fact its more of a theory I read probably on this forum several years ago. I then noticed that prior projections I had been getting stuck in walls and power lines and some other electrical appliances like my alarm clock and TV. Could be coincidence I just find it interesting that this theory gets brought up again. I think when I read it someone may have specifically mentioned copper wiring as the source of the problem also.

Anyways, how I understood ethereal projection, was that once the ethereal energy "runs out", the astral body simply phases into the astral. If the government had containment rooms for astral bodies, wouldn't they need some way to maintain the person's ethereal body, otherwise they would simply vanish into the nonphysical wouldn't they?

Im gonna guess it was Stookie, Im not sure the relevance of that though, apparently people dont think the police state needs to be stopped until its fully operational and too late at that point. From my experiences with authorities, there is no doubt in my mind that we are moving in that direction, I also see random police checkpoints set up on the road at least once a month in my town, I drove through one of these unconstituional checkpoints and got the hell questioned out of me.

Thats just it, you think its illegal but they dont care, and many, many times cops have refused to give their badge numbers, once after we watched a cop beat up a 16 year old girl because she wouldnt allow them to search her apartment without a warrant. Unless you have your own camera recording directly to a live internet feed, or you record the conversation secretly, they can and will get away with whatever they want. This stuff happens stookie, and under the partriot act and other laws since, cops are encouraged to participate in this unlawful behaviour. A video showing police anti-terrorism training on the internet, even has the instructor argue that the founding fathers of the USA were terrorists. And it is well documented the police state tactics used to some tax evaders and protestors. You are probly right, they dont usually storm the house but it happened plenty of times nonetheless, and even so, you say they take you to court and fine you, for taxes that you dont legally have to pay! I just dont see the excuses being of any value, people say we are turning into a police state, then I go out and see it for myself, I can see the news propaganda for myself. So much of this I and other people can see for themselves.

I'm not saying leave society. You can live within it, and by being creative and listening to your higher-self, you can still live how you want to. Yes, if you own property you have to pay taxes on it, but that is par for the course world-wide, not a conspiracy. Start making your own rules to life. Adopt your own philosophy. It's so simple that no one will do it. Probably because Frazier is on at the time.

Look up the income tax, that is a conspiracy, there has yet to be a law passed saying you must pay income tax, in fact, I believe the constitution forbids an income tax. Yet dont pay and watch the IRS and the SWAT team storm your house with automatic machine guns.

Perhaps all we're trying to do is inform people that that sort of lifestyle you describe won't still be here for our children and grandchildren etc if we dont stop this government control now. If we were truly free the government wouldnt violate the constitution and our rights every day with all the new laws and crap they pass. If I were free I wouldnt be always getting harassed by the cops and searched randomly just for walking down the street, I dont buy the whole "if you have nothing to hide why should you care" because if you dont do anything they get used to minor violations of your rights, and make that a regular thing until the majority of the population sees nothing wrong with not having those rights at all anymore.

Also, you say we aren't forced to live in this lifestyle, but how much open wilderness is there that isn't owned by some person/corporation/government. You could leave society and go live on your own, but sooner or later someone will find you and could charge you with trespassing and not paying your taxes for all the years you've been gone. Not as simple as you think to just up and leave society Stookie. As for PReal, what you said about the birth certificate and your name is spot on, as soon as you get a birth certificate or a SIN number, you are quite literally the property of corporate America.

Yes, I am agreeing with you on Alex Jones, Im just pointing out that most of the news articles he posts on his websites, do not involve his input and are tooken directly from real news sites. You agree that corporations are destroying the economy, well the corporations dont = conspiracy, because they are trying to hide the damage they have and are continuing to do. If the Patriot Act is just the Bush administration, why hasnt it been repealed? It is illegal under the constitution and helps confirm the NWO theory, it is a blatant violation of civil liberties and they can send a US citizen to guantanamo without a trial under its provisions.The presidents have no power of their own, its the same corporate interests controlling both Bush, and Obama's actions. They are stopping us from doing plenty of things actually, I live on my own, but I can't find work, unemployment is the highest in my county of my province. No money and they keep grouping us into cities. The direction they are moving in is to limit our travel and our wealth, and its working. You can think it is conjecture but there is more than enough evidence of all this being true, and it takes much more evidence that isnt there to prove it wrong.

Very interesting thread, I have noticed that while OOB ethereally, I often get stuck in walls or near electrical appliances. I am sure I have heard of this before, that electromagnetism and other fields from the physical can get you stuck in the ethereal. That would make sense if the rooms were lined with copper and steel that it could trap you. I also felt I should mention, that the government's remote viewing program is well documented and lasted about 10 years, which excess of 10 million dollars spent on research, so I wouldnt be surprised at all if they have developed certain guards and blocks to stop astral projectors from viewing theyre facilities. The government itself of course, claims that they proved remote viewing to be fake, but if that were the case, one would think it would cost less than 10mil and 10 years to prove it wrong...

Alex Jones radio station is owned by ABC, is he somehow part of it all and most likely a disinfo agent. But to say he distorts all the facts is wrong, most of his news articles on his website come from "legitimate" news websites. But I admit in his documentaries, he is a bit of a fear monger. Im not gonna bother arguing and sorry for getting so heated Xanth, but the evidence is overwhelming. I personally dont like the term "New world order", the NWO is far from one theory and more or less a grouping of theories regarding different government interests. Many of those theories are indeed fact. You dont need to read anything to know its at least partially true, just turn on the mainstream news and watch the propaganda fly, everything in our society is about corporate interests and many of those corporations do in fact have more power than the government itself. As I said, maybe some parts of the theories are outlandish, but the fact of the matter is they have passed laws like the Patriot Act and it takes no theories to see that this is an abomination to a free country and an abuse of power. The CIA wiretapping has been going on since before they even passed some of these laws. The Cheamtrails are even real and depending where you live you can see them everyday turning a sunny day into a cloudy one. The government denys the existence of chemtrails but admits that they are spraying barium and other heavy metals into the atmosphere to combat "global warming", another government lie that we know of thanks to climate gate. They make so many contradictions that in my opinion, the weight of evidence is on our government and corporate leader's backs, not ours, and they just can't justify the crimes theyve been committing.

Anyways, why do you think we don't like the world? I just think's the world better when you can live in it free, and if anyone honestly wants to say our government is freedom loving, that will require evidence. Its not enough for the weight of evidence to be on me, when the status quo is much harder to defend when it comes down to cold, hard facts. I have no problem with the world, just the oppressive human organizations currently running it.

He contributes alot of arrogant remarks and misleading statements, thats all I see, apparently hanging around here trolling has gotten him plenty enough posts and "contribution"

Xanth, it is you who decided to play devil's advocate and continue to flamebait. Your PM's were nothing but insulting and demanding me to end this discussion and agree with you that is conjecture. I don't care if you don't believe it and Im made that clear enough times on here over the past few months, but Im sorry that your upset and resorting to childish behaviour because my opinion differs. Your last post was nothing but a cop out because you refuse to even look into this stuff yet still sit on here time after time critisizng others becuase they are informed on the current geopolitical situation. There something new agers call people like you, what is? Psychic vampire? Quit feeding off our energy and contribute for once, all you do is try to start arguments.

Im not gonna argue anymore, the Illuminati families have been around for centuries and are still very much around holding positions of power within society. Them and there families existence is not open to debate. The only thing you might call conjecture is that they are evil. I believe their actions demonstrate that they are and are planning to rule and control the world even more. If you are saying Rothschilds and Rockefellers etc etc etc are good and have humanity's best interests at heart fine, that deffinilty goes against what the evidence would suggest. If you are trying to say they literally don't exist, then I dont know what to say other than that your ignoring reality so it fits your own world view. It is well documented that the Rothschild took control of Britain financially during the Napoleonic Wars and never lost that power, just as its well documented that the Rockefellers have consistently funded eugenics, abortion and population control agendas. They have started most of the major banks, oil corporations, and even the Council of Foreign Relations. They have more power and sway then the government itself, and they have demonstrated this time and time again. As I said Xanth, you have not researched excrement all about this, clearly. Instead of sending my angry PMs, why dont you actually debunk the gulf of tonkin or anything I have said. You will see that you will have a hard time when you actually research instead of arguing with me superficially. So you admit the OWG is real now, but the NWO isn't. I personally dont think killing people in wars and false flag terrorist attacks, and violating civil rights and liberties is a good thing, so the OWG is acting exactly like the NWO, whats the difference? The Federal Reserve admitted they caused the last economic depression, who do you think caused it this time? It was no accident. Most of this info isn't even fringe, you simply just connect the dots, so sorry if you come off ignorant to me.

You are correct personalreality, 1776 was for the most part a scam, Britain still retained much power throught the US and the world. As for Xanth, you are denying the existence of laws which are real and passed and even publicised. You deny that families such as the Rothschild and Rockefellers dont all weild powerful positions in society and that they have never been caught committing crimes. Historically and in the modern times, the super-rich, super powerful rulers of our society have been nothing but a mafia, and the crimes against humanity they commit are still continuing today in our modern wars and events. The NWO is far from one theory really, its about their influence in several different branches of life, and is made up of several "theories", many of which have become common fact. Some people think aliens control the NWO, maybe they do, but I don't personally believe that. But to say the "NWO" isn't happening at all is what is conjecture.

Dear Zino

Indeed we do have the same sort of minds,

it is evident today that we all have in our bodies the human mind that is a universal system that is systematically the same construct in every human being with only a limited range of genetic individuality only on a surface level.

But regardless of the facts - ignorance is potentially infinite in strength.
There are people who believe that a tree or an atom with X protons doesn't exist unless they believe it to be. Wishful thinking and selective perception are one of humanity's biggest delusions that apparently have even found their way into quantum "science" by now.

I'd like to clarifie further:

R. Bruce has practiced OBEs since age 4. He probably has more experience with different dimensions and altered states of consciousness than all members of this forum combined and he deserves much more respect than receiving dissings left without explanations as has been done by some of the high-horse members here.
And unlike most people in the field of esoterics, Robert Bruce has actually built his knowledge mostly on his own experiences and in conscious avoidance of wishful thinking.

I'm questioning the in the original post mentioned statements by R. Bruce backed with evidence and personal observation aswell as experience.


kind regards,

Paul

Its not that quantum theory says things dont exist when youre not lookin at it, but that looking at something (perception) causes a probability wave to collapse into physical matter. This probability wave is what may cause us, and everything to be constantly splitting into infinite alternate dimensions based on each of those probabilities, and so percieving something forces the wave to "choose" one of those random possiblities and collapse into matter. However, Im going to agree with you Tiny, quantum physics is very theoretical and should be taken with a grain of salt, as should string theory. What I was gonna ask, is if that is true, do you think the tree as a bioligical life form can collapse itself or does it rely on other people's perception since the tree cant really make its own decisions (that may not be true, it just might take alot of time for those decisions to manifest in its body). What about animal life?

I can't do anything about human mortality either, it dosent mean we should go through our lives pretending we're immortal (physically speaking xanth lol  ) Whether we can do anything about it or not, it does not mean it is not truth, in my opinion it nothing but weakness when people are so absorbed in their own world view, that they literally dont care if our own government is comitting atrocities against us and around the world. It dosent matter how you "feel" about it, it dosent change what is happening. Beleive me, I would love to pretend it dosent exist, but then I might as well pretend I can levitate through outer space or something I dont know. If you would remember, it is the people's resonsibility to control government, sitting back and doing nothing is not living up to this responsibility either way you look at it, perhaps the reason we cant do anything about it, is that the majority of people hold similar attitudes towards it and basically, dont care wether its real or not. Either way you look at current events, the Iraq War for example, was unconstituional for the USA, and it was a violation of sovereighty for the Iraqi's, the USA never found weapons of mass destruction, and over a million civilians are dead. Are you really supporting this? I support the US CONSTITUTION and bill of rights. Ive also sent you links to the FEMA directives Xanth, no governing body should have this kind of power, EVER, in a country that calls itself free. As citizens we do have a respinsibility to critisize government, I for one try to live up to that as much as I can, but you guys are right in one respect, it is difficult and an uphill battle, escpecially when you cant convicne citizens to do their own research. What is so ridiculous about forming a group to resist government intervention in our lives? Boy, thats never worked (1776 anyone?). Revolutions happen and the only thing stopping them is the fear that uneducated people possess. Screw living in fear of terrorists, I live in fear of losing our privledged rights that most of the world has already lost. Its not a conspiracy at all when you look at how oppresive governments around the world already are, combined with the rise of globalization, you would be pretty naive to think the wanna keep paying us good wages for labour in the west, when they can simply go to a different country and pay 1$ an hour or less to their workers. Its obviously going to happen and thats what this economic collapse is partially about.

LOL ther ya go again, grouping real conspracies with crazy ones, its obvious the media's intentions have worked here. I dont believe in greys, 2012, reptilians, but I do believe in the other ones, there is too much evidence. I mean honestly, you think Bush and Obama, and these politicians give a crap about us? They are corrupt as always and there is plenty of evidence. It is you guys who are speculating, as you are just making statements on subjects which you posess no knowledge on. But Im willing to agree to disagree before this turns into an arugment, I have cited legititmate sources to you before Xanth, and you still refuse to look at them or acknowledge them, its like arguing creationism with a creationist, no amount of evidence will convince them that God didnt create the world, just as no amount of evidence will convicne you that our government is sinister. Sometimes its not trying to see everything as conspiracy, but actually a skeptic who researched too much, and now cannot deny the reality of this.

I would call it speculation if it were indeed that. I know you haven't done much research Xanth, you wouldnt have been so surprised at my links to CIA corruption if you had. You also wouldn't think its speculation had you done a significant amount of research. If you are willing to prove how the gulf of tonkin info Ive given is wrong, Im open to hear it, that incident alone proves the level of corupption our government is capable of. As I said, it is you who has to disprove this, much of it is common public knowledge, just rarely acknowledged for obvious political reasons.

Sorry but you are wrong, you can't decide that when you haven't viewed the evidence that is literally right in front of your face to prove or disprove for yourself. Anyways, like I said, you don't have to beleive me, Im just suggesting you do research before you group "conspiracy theories" in with reptilians and greys. lol dont you hate when people post while youre editting your comment? Anyways, it is proven enough that is far more ridiculous to say the "government has our best interests at heart" or "the government cares about our rights" lmao.

lol Xanth, the evidence is enormous, and the media is obviously controlled, all you have to do is turn on the news and point out the age old propaganda techniques, but you've decided this stuff isnt true without doing any research lol. It is verifiable, it is far from based on conjecture, but much of the NWO has already gone from conspiracy to common public fact over the past few years. You don't think NAFTA is planning a North American Union, you think the economic collapse was an accident? Did the bailout happen? Requires no theories to see that its true. Just research it yourself Xanth, you don't even have to search "conspiracy theories" to prove its true these days. Heck, just research the monetary system itself, all the evidence you need is right in front of you, in my opinion the "powers that be" are rather sloppy if anything, they just count on us thinking these theories are outrageous, crazy, or unlikely and taking that at face value. Just look at the Patriot Act and other tyrranical laws that have been passed since 9/11. Maybe you think these laws are really to protect us, but I know our ancestors fought and died for these freedoms, and it is the ultimate insult for the government to do this, we are in more danger when we have no rights then we are from a random terrorist attack that the government probly committed itself. Maybe you think that is outrageous as well, but look up the Gulf of Tonkin incident Xanth, the government attacked itself as an excuse to enter the Vietnam War, this is now PROVEN. But Im not gonna try to convince you, if you wanna know the truth you will research yourself. Kurt seems to be spending alot of time at alienhub.com forums.

Serial murderers are usually convicted on physical evidence as well... Hollow earth? Don't buy it, it's been disproven too many times. Things like the NWO can be personally proven using verifiable evidence. Reptilians? Greys? Hollow earth? Its all based on conjecture, I just don't see the evidence.

Is this like asking for example, putting food on your tongue. The food and your tongue are physical, but the taste itself is a "subjective" or inner experience (f2?) that can be summed up by physical interactions and yet exists independantly. So sound, the waves travel through the air and hit your ear. You ear, the waves and their medium (air) allow the sound to be recieved, but the meaning and actual sound from a human perspective has nothing to do with that. This is confusing and I don't think there is an easy answer. Perhaps the wave is all that is being percieved, but from different focus levels it is percieved differently?

Nope, taking DMT is a very powerful and profound hallucinogen.

I agree with Xanth, pretty much all information on the greys is nothing but conjecture, I wouldn't be too surprised if they turned out to not exist at all outside of our own imaginations. Geoncentric nuttery? Sounds nutty to think you know anything about anything outside this planet that youve never physically left.

I had 2 or 3 encounters with the same being in my early days of projection. I can only describe it as a pitch black "shadow entity" or whatever theyre called. I believed I was possessed but it didn't take long continuing projection for to realize it was a subcouncious creation that I could call on or call off at will. Who knows though, that dosen't necessarily mean all entities out there are your own subcouncious, but I believe the majority of them are a one thing is for sure, the large majority of astral projectors will never experience possession or physical/mental harm in any way. That aside, I wouldn't mind checking out astral dynamics and see what old Robert is up to.

LOL, at least he tested his theory. I would think taking external DMT may do the opposite of evolving your brain, like when someone takes steroids for so long, theyre body loses the ability to produce the natural amount of testosterone. In the same way, the brain may forget how to release DMT if one takes enough of it that the brain has no reason to continue its own production.