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Hm, a few minutes after I posted that, I was reading some related material, some of which made mention of the book "A Wrinkle in Time."  Right then, I got a spam IM from a screenname that was something like "CharlesMeg."  For those who don't know, Charles and Meg are two of the main characters in that book.  Spookiness.  Heh.

Yeah, I couldn't imagine spending 3 years' work and $280 million on something, only to have it crash into the desert.  Yikes.

On another note... does anyone else think this movie "What the @#$%^ do we Know?!" might be part of whatever is supposed to come in September?  I haven't seen it yet, but it seems to be getting pretty big, and is scheduled for wide release tomorrow, so it seemed to me like that very well could be.

Hah... I've been wanting to see this since I started reading about it here, and tonight I found out I can get extra credit for it.

I love being a religion major.  []

quote:
Palehorse I read awhile back that you were upset because you lost some of your posts in the Oazaki thread, I think I have your first post on file if you still want it? I'll just post it up here.

I think I have my first few posts... I managed to find them in Google's cache after the thread was censored.  I was more interested in saving my posts on the last 5 pages or so, because they were too new to be in the cache, but no go.  Thanks though.  

quote:Another thing that I find quite intresting is the day after tomarrow. I haven#146;t seen this film however if to cause events all that need be done is to think about them, don#146;t you think this is a dangerous film to be released for public viewing?

Eh, that's a toss-up IMO, because I think it's equally likely to have the effect it was otensibly intended for -- propoganda for the good guys to wake up and do something about some of those very real possibilities.  That's why I'm still torn on the effects of movies in prophecy and mainstream consciousness, because they could so easily go both ways.

Speaking of Passion though, I found it intriguing that Mel was talking about doing his next movie as a historical epic based on Judas Maccabbeus, the leader of the Jewish army who defeated the army of Antiochus against incredible odds, ending their occupation and restoring the temple.  It'll certainly be interesting timing if Gibson does go through with it.

Yeah, I wouldn't consider that a hit either.  With so many high level political figures running around, the vast majority of which are old men over 50, you're bound to have a lot of health problems between them.  That said, I probably *would* consider it a hit (or at least pretty damn close) if not for the prediction that the diseased official would come within the framework of the RNC.  The only thing this really does concerning the GOP is that it takes Clinton out of commission for a while so he can't campaign for John Kerry.

That said, I just wonder if these web bots are inadvertently sabatoging their own predictions.  We've all heard about how it may be that making such predictions actually changes the future... So, what if this *was* going to come true, but since the web bots mentioned and publicized it, the events took place in a much less obvious way?  For instance, when those predictions were made, I'm sure all heads immediately turned in Cheney's direction, the condition of his heart and his old age making him the most obvious candidate.  So, the circumstances which had to manifest, did so in a much less obvious way... though Bill Clinton.

Just more fun stuff to think about.

Don't get too excited just yet, folks.  From SETI's website:

quote:"A recent (September 1) article in New Scientist magazine, entitled " Mysterious signals from 1000 light years away," implies that the UC Berkeley SETI@home project has uncovered a very convincing candidate signal that might be the first strong evidence for extraterrestrial intelligence.

Alas, this story is misleading. According to Dan Werthimer, who heads up the UC Berkeley SERENDIP SETI project, this is a case of a reporter failing to understand the workings of their search. He says that misquotes and statements taken out of context give the impression that his team is exceptionally impressed with one of the many candidate signals, SHGb02+14a, uncovered using the popular SETI@home software. They are not."

Source: http://www.seti-inst.edu/about_us/info_for_media/in_the_news/setiathome_found_signal.php

Oddly enough, the article differs from the CNN report... no mention of a telescope in Puerto Rico and whatnot, but it was posted 9/2.  Either there's two sets of signals being investigated, or someone needs to check their facts.

Hah, I was just about to post that article on the "web bots" thread, and you beat me to it.  Interesting stuff, though.

Hm, interesting stuff; I'm surprised no one else has replied yet.  

That said, my question is... so what?  While I think your idea that movies are a reflection of the consciousness of the masses is a compelling one, what I'm wondering is, how can we benefit from this knowledge in any practical way?  Even if Terminator 2 *did* foreshadow 9/11, the movie was put out, what, more than a decade ago?  It's easy to look at certain things after the fact and note eerie similarities... but I seriously doubt anyone was watching T2 in the early 90's and saying "hijacked trucks... missiles... NY City... clearance warning... whoa!  Two jumbo jets are going to be hijacked and crashed into the twin towers on September 11th of 2001!"  There's just no reliable way to put those "signs" together into anything coherent while enough time remained to do anything about it, and even if someone could have, it's not likely that anyone would've paid much attention.

So... how do your methods rise above the cacophony of people all claiming that they have some sort of key to the future, human nature (etc. etc.)?  How do we know which movies contain something significant in them, and when to say (with thanks to Freud) "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"?  And, once we know which movies, how do we go about recognizing and interpreting the signs ahead of time, so they could serve some sort of practical purpose?

quote:Lets see, could any of you tell me how it is that Jesus died for our sins? Think before you answer.

As a (decidedly unorthodox) Christian myself, I have been wrestling with this question for quite a while now.  The only solid conclusion I have reached thus far is that I reject the traditional idea of substitutionary atonement.

My current train of thought on the subject has to do with the literal definition of "sin" itself -- "to miss the mark (of God's intent)."  Simply put, man has consistently missed the mark of the divine ideal, in effect creating the "veil" between God and man.  By nailing (no pun intended) that mark perfectly throughout his life, Christ was able to rend the veil, reestablish the individual's ability to attain divine union freely without any intermediary, and provide a living example of how this can be done.  By "dying to self" and "putting on the new man in Christ," we can join with him in his life and death, so that we too can say in all truth "I and my Father are one."  In that sense, it can be said that Jesus died for the sins of mankind, but only so the Christ could rise, taking all of us with him. (John 12:32)

quote:Matthew 13:13

This reminds me... the whole synchronicity thing with numbers seems to have started for me as well; I seem to be seeing 13's EVERYWHERE.  The other day especially sticks out; I noticed four together.  My first impulse was to add them up, which made 52... the number of weeks in a year.  If there's anything to this number stuff, and my first impulse about what they could mean is correct, then a year from 8/30 might be something to keep an eye on.  Also, in addition to the post I made about my experience on the "day out of time" before that last thread was locked... it recently struck me that there could be some heavy symbolism involved in my being literally shaken awake on the eve of the Mayan new year.

I don't know if I should post this here, but since the other thread is (unsurprisingly) out of commission, and I don't feel like starting another one...

It's all over the news right now that during an interview on NBC, Bush made a comment to the effect that the war on terror is "unwinnable."  

Coming from Mister "always sticks to his guns no matter what the consequences might be"?  Coming at a time when the Republicans' biggest accusation against Kerry is that he "flip-flops" too much?  I find this expression of doubt VERY strange.  It's pretty well known how prone Bush is to misspeaking, but I don't think that's what it was, because he didn't correct himself until the feces predictably hit the fan the next day.  I have no idea what to make of this as of now.

Keep yer eyes peeled, friends... this is getting weird.

This just in from a livejournal group I discovered last night.  (Note: the image is gone, possibly because the post is old.)  

"This is an image from Terrence McKenna's Timewave Zero Software charting the novelty factor of December 2003 - December 2004. The vertical line is pointed toward July 24th.
If 2012 is absolute zero, the bottom-most point, then we're going to get catch a glimpse of the future near the climax of the drop, around the end of September.
WHEE!!! O_O

Wooooow.
And I thought the past two weeks have been crazy. ._.

More info on the Timewave Zero here = http://www.levity.com/eschaton/waveexplain.html "

Link to that post with comments: http://www.livejournal.com/community/2_0_1_2/44052.html

In other news, yesterday I was also reading about something that those who follow all things 2012 call "the day out of time," which was 7/25.  I don't really know anything about it, other than it appears to be the new year according to the Mayan calendar.  Well, I had been writing in my dream journal earlier, and that date stuck out in my mind.  I went back to check, and this is my entry for the night of the 25th (note: I was at someone else's house, sleeping on an air mattress that night):

"Whoa... last night right after falling asleep at Heather's, I semi woke up to my head feeling like it was spinning, after I'd been doing meditation And NEW for a while.  Then it escalated to where it felt like someone grabbing the corners of my mattress and alternating jerking them up and down.  I felt like I was going to fall off, at which point my blanket jerked off me like someone was pulling it off, and I was fully conscious by this time.

Crazy stuff, no?  Does anyone have more info or resources on this "day out of time"?

In any case, Oazaki or no Oazaki, I'm definitely gaining the sense that there is indeed something to this 2012 stuff, and things may start to get very interesting, sooner than later.

quote:Originally posted by Adam

I like your open-minded attitude Palehorse. Would be nice to see more like it around here []

IMO most people's criticisms of Oazaki are from not really understanding what he is doing. No, he does not hand it to you on a platter. Yes, he has played games. Yes, there has been manipulation. And yes, he has given you the pieces to the puzzle in his threads. Unfortunately most people just jump on the bandwagon and react, rather than spend some time trying to look into it further.

I guess we will know for sure by the end of year, eh? [] []

I'm glad someone realizes what *I'm* trying to do here.  Yes, I'm still on the fence about him and his claims, but that's because thus far, I see it as the most intellectually honest option.  I will admit that I jumped the gun when I first showed up, possibly due to some ego issues of my own.  Those being that as an aspiring religious scholar, I saw someone making use of the Bible in a way that was a bit out there even for me (as unorthodox as I am, lol) and so I went into auto-refute mode.

That said, I'm still pretty skeptical about certain claims of his, such as the ones that have him writing Revelation himself, destroying deities and what have you.  However, it then occurred to me: what if he's claiming certain things, possibly intended as metaphors, and deliberately phrasing them in such a way that it will immediately turn off anyone who's ego is propped up by dogmatic beliefs?  I could be totally off base, but he certainly seemed to say as much at one point, when he claimed to have taken upon himself all the karma associated with 666... and that's certainly the result he's been getting.  It's also a scenario, like many others, that sounds very familiar to me.

Matthew 13:13
"This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

So yeah, I'm still on the fence about this whole thing, and will probably continue to be until either predictions start coming true, or 12/31, whichever comes first.  My concern though, is that like you said, I believe too many people are rejecting him out of hand because he either defied their expectations or poked their ego in some way.  I'm here saying that not only is this not a solid basis for rejecting these claims, it's precisely those very things which got a whole lot of people killed some 2000 years ago.

Hey QS, any news on that breatharian thing you were doing?  Weren't you supposed to be done by now or no?

quote:Originally posted by Nameless


I'm going to play my role as Mr. Dissenting Voice and take issue with this statement.  Why do we have five months to wait?  Why are Oazaki's latest predictions being considered as the arbiter of his veracity when his previous predictions were not?  In the past when his predictions have failed he has simply given an excuse and provided some new ones.  If, after these five months are over, Oazaki does the same, giving an excuse and providing a new set of predictions for March 2005, are you likely to say, "Well, we only have three months to wait before we can decide whether or not to disregard him, and we should suspend judgement until then"?

Before I answer, I must say that I came to this whole thing rather late; middle of this summer if I recall.  I read the whole "year 2004" thread in two days.  I also read a few of his posts on Occult Forums to try and get a little more perspective, but its just been bits and pieces due to the hack.  I think you'd agree that that's a whole lot of material to digest all at once though, so my knowledge and memory of the exact claims he's made might not be the best.

But... as far as I can see, all of the specific dates he's named always came with some disclaimer to the effect that they weren't set in stone.  Due to the fluid nature of time and unpredictable variable of free-will, that seemed reasonable enough to me, if a bit frustrating.  Another thing that came into my mind were statements in Revelation about how "the great and terrible Day of the Lord" kept being pushed back so that more people would have a chance to wake up, and fewer would be hurt... but as I've shown, that day did eventually come.  So, it seems things may have been done in this way once before.

However, the one thing Oazaki has repeatedly put all his money on, paralleling Jesus putting all his own money on "before this generation has passed away," is that very dramatic things will begin happening before the end of 2004.  If nothing happens, then he will have joined the ranks of every failed doomsday prophet who has ever wailed gibberish from a street corner.  What's more, since nothing overt has happened yet, the bar keeps raising higher and higher, due to the fact of the upcoming election.  Since this will probably be the most controversial and polarizing election in our history, I would be more surprised if something weird didn't happen, with or without Oazaki.  In other words, if most of the world doesn't know what the Zhedhi Order is by 12/31, I would say without reserve that it's finally time to put all this nonsense behind us.

quote:
Have you tried the Wake-Back-to-Bed method of inducing LDs? It's the method that I've had the most success with, after zero success with tedious reality checks.

I've done it a few times, but no go.  My lack of success as of late is my fault though, due to my wacky summer sleep schedule.  I seem to have the most dream recall, sleep paralysis, hypnogogic imagery and such when I go to bed before 2 and get 8 hours or more... and that just hasn't been happening lately, heh.  I'm hoping that the knowledge I've gained over the summer will bring more success when I'm forced back on a normal schedule in the next week or so though.

quote:Originally posted by Jenadots


And great thoughts, Palehorse.  Tho if I remember my Bible correctly, Jesus said something like not another generation will pass before his predictions come true.  Not another generation did.  Or maybe that was someone else in the Old Testament which does indicate that someone earns the title of prophet only if the prophecies happen.  
Pretty strict measure and one which I doubt the modern day psychics, even the most on target of them, can live up to.  

You do recall correctly; Jesus said in all three synoptic gospels "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."  He also said "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

The point is that thirty years is a long time to wait in order to confirm someone's status as a true prophet, and probably the basis of the "falling away" that was predicted to happen before all those events.  Unfortunately for those who fell away, it might very well have cost them their lives.

In our case, we only have about five months to wait before we can safely decide whether or not to disregard Oazaki completely, which isn't very long at all, and requires nothing other than our suspension of judgment until then.  Since there's really nothing to lose by doing so, and potentially much to lose if there *is* anything to his story, I see no reason not to.  (Pascal would be proud, heh...)  The last thing I'll say is that if we were to assume he is telling the truth, then it makes logical sense to me for a number of reasons that we haven't seen any dramatic confirmations yet.

quote:
Of course, I do beleive most of us here are at least a little bit psychic or have unusual talents and abilities that drew us to the AP in the first place.  It is what makes the various forums so interesting.  

Yeah, that thought has occurred to me too.  I've definitely gained a lot by being here... though unfortunately my original goals of becoming proficient at AP and LD are still ever elusive.  Sigh.

quote:
I have no grand predictions to offer.  Wish I did.  Tho I do tend to sense earthquakes about a day before they happen. I never know where they will happen, I just seem to know it is earthquake day.  Probably most of us have some similiar odd little things we are able to do.

You should come be my early warning system for when my state is about to break off into the ocean then.  If there's gonna be a big earthquake somewhere, chances are that it'll be us.  []

AK666:  It seems to me your biggest beef is not with God or Christ, but the myriad ways in which their followers have distorted and violated their teachings over the ages.  For all the sacrifice, there are the prophets firmly insisting on God's behalf that He desires mercy, not sacrifice.  Against every atrocity and abuse, stands Christ, in opposition, telling us to love our neighbor.  Ironically, by perpetuating this caricature of the Church, your ego-driven crusade is only serving to feed more power into the virulent religious structure you claim to so adamantly oppose.

What would Jesus do?

Hey, I've discovered something that might help.  Right click the link you're trying to go to, hit "copy shortcut," paste it in your web browser, and hit "enter."  As annoying as it is to do that every time, its been working for me lately.

Heh, this just keeps getting more and more interesting.

Trying to be as objective as possible, I still believe it's not completely possible to come to a conclusive decision on Oazaki just yet.  As far as I'm concerned, there are as many points *for* the idea that he's just some kid with a good imagination, delusions of grandeur and way too much time on his hands, as there are against it.  

For various reasons I'm not going to raise those points on this thread.  I will say though, that the "failed" predictions don't yet seal the deal for me despite things I said when I first got into the original thread.  Reason being, when Jesus made his own predictions about the end of the age, they took thirty years to come true.  That's more than enough time for anyone to label him as a failed messiah -- and yet at the end of those thirty years, the temple fell, the city was sacked in the midst of historically recorded supernatural events, and the Church subsequently spread across the earth, in short, specifically fulfilling every one of said predictions.

If there really is no real substance in anything Oazaki has said, the alternatives, for him, aren't pretty.  Probably the best case would be if he's simply someone who sees what many of us see -- the world around us going nuts, and quickly hurtling us into what could be a time of unprecedented darkness -- and wanted to be proactive about it in the only way that he, as one person, knew how.  I sincerely hope this is the case, that his motives are good, however misguided they may or may not be.  I lean toward this explanation more than others, because he doesn't seem to me to show many tell-tale signs of a cult leader, in that he hasn't really asked anything of anyone.  Dangerous cults are all about the personal gain of the leadership -- and what exactly has he gained from all this?  Not a whole lot in material terms, as far as I can see.  I don't think his aim was to acquire believers, as one who has this as their goal usually makes claims that are a lot more readily digestable.  If all he wanted was attention, then this is certainly a bizarre, time consuming, and potentially dangerous way to get it.

The other alternative is that he's knowingly leading us all on, for whatever the reason.  If this is the case, he's going to have a whole helluva lot to answer for.  It would mean he's spent about two years attempting to create a huge distraction during a time when every little bit of energy that can be put toward finding and implementing real solutions to real problems is of the utmost importance.  He's also promised healing to a lot of people, which, if he knowingly can't back up those claims, is of course a pretty effed up thing to do.  For someone who has so much to say about karma, this is certainly the most ironic scenario.

For my part, it doesn't really matter to me which is true.  I have personally gained a lot from this discussion, in the form of stimulating debate, as well as the inspiration to pursue many new leads in my spiritual life.  

In addition, I am, and always have been a rather solitary type, giving no allegiance to any group or organization, but undying loyalty to VERY few who earn it.  I find this is the best way to fulfill my ideals, and to not get myself sucked into any situations I'd come to regret.  As such, I'm preparing for the "end of the world" in the exact same way as I'm preparing for the eventual end of my life -- by doing my best to fulfill my ideals, by living free, treating others well, and not being dogmatic in any of my expectations.  My only hope is that when either "end" comes, my pursuits will have lead me to the point where I can face the transition with strength and courage, and come out on the other side ready for another round of learning.

quote:I think this is the same as the Unity Church, it is also the church I attend.

Yep, this is indeed the org I'm talking about.  So, I hope you don't mind if I interrogate you for a minute.  []

What is a typical service at a Unity church like?  I know from this book o' mine that they believe in allegorical and metaphysical interpretations of scripture... but what's their take on the historicity of the Bible?  Have you ever seen or known someone firsthand who was healed, or had some other "miraculous" experience using the methods employed by Unity?  

Anyway, I'll probably be bugging you with more questions, but that's all that comes to mind for now.  But basically, my interest in Unity stems mainly from the facts that 1. I strongly believe Jesus wasn't kidding when he said his followers would be empowered to do the things he did and greater, and 2. the Church, not to mention the world as a whole, seems to be sorely lacking in genuinely spiritual people who aren't all talk, and actually have the ability to make a difference within their sphere of influence.  I can't say my motives are completely selfless though either, as I'm currently looking into ways to obtain my own personal healing of various things.

quote:You can also check out this link: http://www.carm.org/list/unity.htm

Eh, I don't think you want to get me started on Carm.  The false representations of various belief systems (my own included) are bad enough, but I've also personally observed quite a lot of intellectual dishonesty, ad hominem and blatant censorship from the webmaster, Matt Slick.  Not to mention, he's a devout Calvinist, which makes me shudder in and of itself.

quote:how about people in Arab or Indian countries who have no opportunity to know anything about Christianity? According to the Bible Jesus will send them to Hell to be eternally tormented.

Actually, this is only according to a very narrow interpretation of what the Bible actually says, and one that is based on mistranslations and poor logic.  I'd be more than happy to discuss this further; I also have an essay I've written on the subject if you're interested.

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/palehorse13x/hell.html

I'm baaaack.  Anyone miss me?  

::hears crickets chirping off in the distance::

Ahem.  Moving right along...

quote:Contemplate your position, and think if that's a really good idea? Some threats on these boards aren't the idle threats on some gaming forum, ponder that on you week off

Whether the threats are legit or not is beside my point.  That was just my rather sarcastic way of saying that I wish people would keep their personal vendettas personal, so the rest of us don't have to be punished for them too.  Granted, I'd really prefer that nobody gets threatened, but since I can't keep that from happening, the best I can do is respectfully request that such matters be kept between those whom they concern.

Anyway, this week off has been somewhat eventful for me, spiritually speaking.  While poking around antique shops with my girlfriend's parents, I actually came across a first edition copy of Monroe's first book.  Got a kick out of that, but I didn't end up buying it.  What I did buy, was a Metaphysical Bible Dictionary from 1931 that I found, which explains a lot of the esoteric meanings behind names, places, events and concepts found in the biblical texts.  In addition to making my inner theology geek drool, I've learned quite a lot about myself, healing, spirituality and a lot of other things from this book in just the few days I've had it.  I was also rather startled to come across this excerpt which I'm sure some of you will find pretty interesting; it's part of the listing under the topic "Heaven and Earth"...

"It is important to know that heaven and earth, or spiritual and seemingly material planes, are states of mind primarily, and that we, as a race, are in the midst of their expression.  The creative process has been going on for aeons, and a great mass of thought force and mind force has been evolved.  Man's body is the earthly side of an inner heaven, or mental realm.  The I has fluctuated for ages between these two planes of consciousness.  An incarnation in the body is followed by a vacation in the soul, and these two are gradually getting closer and closer together.  When they are united the "new man" in Christ Jesus will step forth and the weary round of incarnation and reincarnation will cease."

So, I was rather surprised and pleased to find this unmistakable reference to the transition we've been discussing, within a strain of my own spiritual tradition, written over 70 years ago no less. (Christianity is anti-paranormal my arse!  Heh)  In any case, throughout this week I've really sensed that someone out there has heard my call for healing and greater understanding and has answered in the language I best relate to, whether it's Oazaki and his buddies, the Creator Himself, or a little of both.  []

Anyway, I have a few more possible insights and things I've been kicking around over the past few days, but I think I'll wait a little while and see how certain things play out.

quote:Originally posted by Awakening

why was that deleted?

Yeah, this whole trend of removing entire long threads because of one or two offenders is REALLY not cool.  You'd think that in such a diverse community that generally prides itself on openmindedness, we wouldn't have to worry about this kind of censorship.

I propose a new forum -- one where mods and their nemeses can freely threaten and delete each other until they all get carpal tunnel.  []  Maybe then the rest of us could continue with the interesting discussions we've been having, in peace.

Anyway, as I said before, I'm about to leave for about a week and a half... if there are any new developments that might be in danger of disappearing before I get back, someone keep me posted, yeah?

[Palehorse]

quote:Originally posted by Nameless

Palehorse, try checking your browser's cache, it might still have those pages stored.  Mine's been erased since the deletion so no joy.

Bleh, no such luck.  They're gone from my cache, and it seems they're too new to be in Google's either.  Guess they're gone, unless Nay plans on answering my post sometime soon, which doesn't seem likely.

Nay,

Alright, I understand the reasons for getting rid of the thread even if I don't necessarily agree; I don't plan on getting into the argument for or against doing so.  However, there were quite a few of my own posts that I planned on saving for future reference, and hadn't gotten around to yet because I didn't expect it all to completely disappear so soon.  

I propose putting the thread back up if it isn't gone completely, but locking it if you must, and for a limited time if you think that's best, so myself and probably others can salvage what we need to.  If not that, then maybe you could send me the content of my posts from the last four pages or so concerning Revelation, preterism, etc.; I'd appreciate it.  I was thinking of writing an essay using some of that stuff, and it'd be a real pain in the arse if I had to research and type everything out all over again.

quote:Originally posted by James S

Hi Palehorse,
The veil that he tore has, in my opinion, been very carefully stitched up again.

Excellent way to put it.  I don't think that stitching job is going to last, though.  A while back I saw a survey, the conclusion of which was that Christians are leaving the institutional churches in record numbers, yet still staying very religious and/or spiritual. People are looking for something genuine, and "churchianity" just isn't cutting it.

It seems that once Jesus obliterated the idea of a middle-man between man and God in the form of clergy, so many people liked the idea so much that the "veil" never fully recovered.  Though institutional religion did manage to hold the stitched pieces together via brute force for quite a few centuries, the human spirit has won out, and today it seems that their attempts to continue along those lines only pushes them further and further into irrelevance.