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obe is real it happened to me when I was a child I didn't even know what it was until now but I remembered it all through my years when I had an ear infection I fainted in the pharmacy I was on the top right corner above my body seeing my mom screaming for help and even saw myself rolled into an ambulance now I found out it was an obe.  In the bible it says we have a celestial body

quote from bible:
(1 Corinthians 15:40)
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
(1 Corinthians 15:44)
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Psychology they call it the etheric body, now they proved recently since we're still alive in the body the etheric body stays but really the astral projected double leaves the area then comes back to reconnect, maybe my body was the celestial/etheric since it was near or above my physical body incident occured.

>going to bed and whammo- I was out like a light.
>I'll try it when I'm awake sometime and see if I can get out.

Leyla: probably had either scullcap/valarian in it that would knock you out, gotu kola is very light sedative and keeps you awake or take it in lesser doses.  Scientifically they say gotu reduces the accoustic response to panic/anxiety/stress they tested on poor mice.  I'm amazed at gotu's ability for connectivity tissue I had very chapped lips I took gotu and it reduced it atleast by 70% they don't hurt or bleed anymore (from taking accutane for acne dried up my facial skin).

peacewarrior/link: if it's a godly plant with no to almost no side effects or damage why say it's harmful don't we eat food that is full of chemicals?  There's good plants (I like to call Godly) and there's bad ones out there.

[Originally posted by Sandy:]

hehe I guess your physical was getting in the way of your astral you could of overpowered it with an emotion like say hands are now in front even if they aren't but your mind will take your word for it just like when I was stuck to my body I said loosen (didn't need to do any rope trick) and couldn't see and said I can see now with confidence and I was able to see like they say in psychology "every thought is creative" especially in the astral/lucid dream world.  I had even another lucid dream again today in front of my house looking at the sunset was very bright/lucid if I can learn how to say in every one of my dreams back to my body or stare at an object to become more lucid then things will get fun I can do more obe's that way I guess practice makes perfect.

quote:Originally posted by Sandy:

quote:Originally posted by weagle:
How I know I was going lucid to obe I was actually acting out my seperation from my body, ie was trying to seperate like for example my last lucid to obe I was lying on my bed as I would then I started to lean over and fall off my bed but my astral me ended up falling out then I saw myself on the bed.  The other time I knew I was on my bed I just standed up but my leg was stuck a bit so I said to myself loosen and I loosened then I couldn't see then I said I

I was having an OBE one time and I couldn't fly very good, my hands were stuck behind me as if I had on real tight jeans & my hands were in the back pockets & couldn't be pulled out.  When I came out of it, I realized the problem-I was laying face up with my arms under my back-I had layed down that way cause my arms were cold.

good luck you should achieve an obe eventually especially if you lucid dream a lot. another trick you can do after you are aware you are dreaming and have full control of it the next thought could be like I mentioned close eyelids concentrate on humming sound I think it's just the same as thinking or saying "back to my body" because the humming sound emanated from my body so it caused to shut down the lucid dream and I went to my body and did the obe but any moment you see yourself in bed move out as if you would in the physical world quickly rolling out and you'll be surprised how easy the astral body moves and just in case it gets stuck a bit just say it's loosening now, its freaky like every thought does something (every thought is creative) so you have to think the right things at the right time to get out.  I think after you get the hang of it you'll know what to say and what should come to your mind first to say, practice makes perfect.  Whats freaky this gotu kola herb that I'm taking I don't even have to go from lucid to obe most of the times it looks as I am near an OBE like I mentioned before which is amazing.  Even the exercises in the book robert bruces either it'll get your mind into an obe/lucid mode while dreaming or eventually your brain be trained enough to do it in a conscious state and do the obe at anytime at will.

I don't know about kava kava they yanked it from the health stores here locally because they reported it causing liver damage (40 cases) but who is to say if that is true because many people in hawaii/polynesia country have taken this herb for centuries and the people that took them had liver problems (hepatitis etc..) another alternative probably more safer is Gotu Kola (indians call it bramhi).  It's used for anti-anxiety, they say it actually blocks receptors in brain where the panic area is so it's also a stress buster so technically it'll help the body heal itself in that area (stress is a major cause of slowing down healing), it has other components as well like blood purifier it has been reported to have anticancer/tumor capabilities in vitro, also it enhances the brain bringing more clarity of the mind overall it's an interesting herb I use it now for meditation cause any herb that makes you relax and keep your mind focused/awake is excellent its not like the other sedative herbs that make you want to fall asleep but only caution I never heard of but it's always good to be precautious not to take if you are pregnant/conceiving.  It also raises your body temperature a bit (kills all the nasty bacteria in the blood) while keeping you warm in the winter time.  I've been taking the herb for a week now and it's starting to heal my eczema ever since my body started to warm up it's now itching in the area (skin healing) not burning anymore I will see after a month or so how good it really works.

>Hi, Do you remember how you went from a Lucid Dream to an OBE >because I have at least 1 Lucid Dream a night and I am uunable to >successfuly OBE, I searched the other boards but I couldn't find anything.
-> Daniel

I happen to remember my dreams especially if it's the last one usually my lucid dream/obe is the last one after I wakeup.  How I know I was going lucid to obe I was actually acting out my seperation from my body, ie was trying to seperate like for example my last lucid to obe I was lying on my bed as I would then I started to lean over and fall off my bed but my astral me ended up falling out then I saw myself on the bed.  The other time I knew I was on my bed I just standed up but my leg was stuck a bit so I said to myself loosen and I loosened then I couldn't see then I said I can see now and it's as if  turning on a video camera.  There are other tricks of going from lucid to obe, I had a lucid dream awhile back that turned to an obe (someone told me this trick it does work), I saw a scenario which was lucid but it wasn't an obe yet, just start staring an object increases the lucidly (awareness you are dreaming which forces you into an obe) of the dream and finally urned out to be a obe what happened I started hearing a humming in my ear after I stared at an object then said I don't want to see this anymore I shut my eyes it went dark concentrated in the humming sound in my ear and all of a sudden I saw myself looking outside of my shutlid eyes in my bed then I immediately rolled out (very easy to do) its just so darn easy to seperate from your body in a dream lucid state than it is in a conscious state people try and practice because there is no physical tension I guess or consciousness in the way.  So try that next time you enter lucid states observe/stare at a fixed object then wait see what happens next you will be more and more aware you are dreaming then you can trigger the obe somehow.

it depends everyones body's makeup is not the same, if it did atleast relax you, help promote more lucid dream then it is in the step in the right direction for astral projection you still have to meditate a little bit though.  I just can't believe even today I had another lucid dream and it was an OBE again I saw myself on the bed again while I got out so thats so far 3 lucid dreams 2 of them were obe type in 8 days.  This stuff atleast works much better than the incenses I have bought like agarwood/aloeswood, sandalwood, essential oils helichrysum etc but you don't smell the smoke and irritate your eyes and chest just take the herb internally there are other sedative herbs like skullcap, st. john wort, gingko (like one has mentioned), ginseng but I've tried all of them didn't work for me.  The only thing that this stuff does is it does raise your body temperature a bit and sweat a little after taking it for a week (bonus its winter time!)but no alarm thats normal I think it also helps burn off more bad bacteria in the blood.  The only precaution with any herb/sedative is not to use it while pregnant/conceiving.  I can imagine after 40 days taking this herb not only does it relax you it's supposed to make you smarter too more focused mind (even mentally retarded children got better iq's with this herb and also kids with ADD)  I wonder if it will help towards the obe's it should though, I shall see after 40 days.

jackr: I took the naturesway.com brand they sell them locally at all health stores it's around 530mg in one capsule they say take 2 capsules 3 times a day.  I checked on the internet whats the max one can take of these things it's upto 10grams (18capsules) but that would be too much it works well even in this configuration smaller doses, two lucid dreams in one week one was an obe was my results from taking this plus no more tensing after I do 1 or two hours of meditation.

gotu is really good it's sold in a health store people take it for stress (from work) some who have mental disorders (like panic attacks) and others take it for meditation (in india they give it bramhi as the best as the best for relaxation) no adverse side effects even the elephants in india eat these plants and many indian people drink it as a tea.  Another thing I noticed now after 1 week of using gotu kola my body doesn't tense up AT ALL when I do any sort of meditation which is very important it means anxiousness/anxiety kicking in and ruins a meditation I think that is one of the problems people don't succeed in astral projection they fail to relax and can't do it sometimes naturally (mentally).  I had another lucid dream it wasn't an obe but it could of ended up being one though I was aware of the whole scenario but it was so darn real I said to myself gee they don't have to waste money filiming movies just film this instead to make movies.

Lysear: I checked google.com if you type gotu kola and uk it'll popup some uk sites that sell it it's perfectly legal herb its great for relaxation of your body when you can't relax it helps for beginner meditators, I was amazed I astral projected I had no intention to do it I was meditating for other things (healing) using body awareness exercises maybe sometimes being aware of your body does the trick as well but still didn't expect to astral project so easily I did it like two times in a row went out, then went back to my body then went out again anomalies were kicking in though second time I went out.  I knew this was a astral projection not a figment of my mind because always when I wake up from it my arms/body are a little numb if I had astral projected for real, that is what the body release a chemical to paralyze the body so you don't go sleep walking by accident when you are in a lucid type of dream (like astral projection).  I think gotu triggers lucid dreaming.  I'll let you know when this happens to me again if it happens 2 times in a week then this really is good stuff but really it is anything that calms the body and keeps the mind focused/awake is excellent.

You will be surprised but many exorcists are obe's/astral projectors thats how I came across obe wasn't mentioned to me they kept their ideas secret but the last 3 people whom God did arrange to help us and that they tried to help exorcise a friend of mine who I prayed for to be released all knew how to obe or was obe'ing to change/remove what now I find out is karma that someone else did wrongfully.  What I also see a lot of indian/arab people are into obe mainly because they meditate/pray a lot unlike the western culture and I thank God for them because many of them are doing God's will and work.  That is a problem in western society you see a lot of preachers saying it's a bad thing but neither of them know how to perform exorcisms or have any authority from up above.  But still even if you know how to obe/astral projection I wouldn't go about doing exorcisms on your own (have guru) without getting attacked so you still got to know what you're doing.

never get fustrated because that is an emotional sign of defeat be like in a desirous mood like this is really good, I'm benefiting from this etc.. I have been obe'ing lots of times only in sleep mode though when my body is relaxed but I was aware of myself and doing it, one time I kept doing it over and over again 3 times in a row get out of my body, then go around go back in go out of my body but that is really the key is making your body physically relaxed I think that is why so many people are successful in obe'ing while conscious state because they trained their minds to relax big time, the second way is during sleep or while you're getting up from sleep physically relaxed thats another reason why some are successful when they do obe's after they wakeup as well.  The side-benefit even if you don't achieve obe right away is a physically relaxed body which is good for your health, so you get two benefits from doing these exercises I think.

robert bruce said to prove you're having a obe in real time zone is to take a card randomly from a deck of cards and put it somewhere you'll see when you obe then verify if the card is right and even though it's not 100% the real world it's still a realtimezone obe not a virtual one.

When people do obe what I noticed is there is some sort of energy form/frequency field because when they obe near me I can hear my left ear go into high pitch for a few seconds when they're near me so thats another way of proving it.

Another thing if one just has astral sight and is in their body then chances are what you see is 100% real it's when one disconnects from the body is when the fluctuations happen.  Don't know if I can verify this but I think astral sight within the confines of your body does not fluctuate you see it as it is.

I think also in time and practice when one meditates raises their energy level they may start to see less fluctuations and more of the physical world.

Another interesting note just how our minds like to filter things out its own way, for example we had two identical businessess then one recently closed down and one worker moved to the other one, I obe'd this time the two workers were there BUT they were in the location that was closed, because I used to visit and work at that old place my mind was used to the closed down place because I was there all the time assuming this was a obe
and not a virtual one.  Thats another interesting note if you obe the people may actually be there but just the surroundings maybe totally different but that doesn't mean you didn't obe your mind didn't filter the information properly for the surroundings but for seeing the people it's always right?

>>If I am already OBE and I stare, it helps to ground me a bit, and the luciduty >>becomes stronger. It makes me feel like I can stay OBE forever.

really you can stay on there forever with no major anomalies and remember everything?  I remember robert bruce saying only way you can stay astrally for many minutes (15 minutes tops)  if you are trained or/and you go back to your body to download the information then go outwards but if you start getting anomalies you just stare at an object and then everything stabilizes again?  that's amazing.

Gus: that's true but like jeff pointed out if it's a dream and not the real obe if you stare at an object if it's not an obe it will become one afterwards.  I wonder what happens when you are in obe and you stare at an object there's no reason to obe again something else must happen?  Jeff probably knows the answer to this one since he has done many obe's.  In robert's book you can do some tricks to see if you have succesfully done obe like pick a card from a deck and don't see it and place it in a spot where you will see it when you obe then check afterwards if it's the same.

jeff: that's amazing just stare at nothingness and think of nothing except the air going into your lungs then center your attention to the hypnogogic images can trigger an obe?  How long did it take you to achieve this skill?  I know every mile must vary in developing their skills.  Some people were saying about day dreaming ie blur your vision into a point like you said look beyond an object can do it also but only when yoou close your eyes when they get dizzy tired?  How about the falling technique (ie going own elevator/ladder) has that every helped trigger obe's according to robert's book he said that it helps put you into sleep mode much faster even if you're not tired.  But then again what you describe says that it puts you in sleep mode as well (ie day dream vision).

I can relate to your experiences I'm at the same stage as you, had many type of dream states that look like obe's ie getting out of the body but turned out to be a virtual world of the real world because of the anomalies in it.  I think my last obe was a real one though check out the message header many virtual obe's I wrote about my complaints jeff wrote some interesting things to do which are some easy ways to obe for real, if you have dreams where you can have atleast some awareness you are dreaming and can control it a bit ie stare at a fixed object then you can obe out of your dream easily.  If I do obe on a consistent basis and want to be certain it would be wise like in robert's book to get a deck of cards pick a card at random and put it somewhere where you won't see it til you obe then check afterwards to see if it's the real physical plane you obe'd into.

i forgot just one last question about your eyes starting to close what are the hypnogogic images are they the afterimage of the object you were watching? Is it like a dream scenario or random pictures going through the mind?  I was wondering how effective it is to just to glare at an object and just visualize it and keep it in mind while you close your eyes does that help or it has to be hypnogogic images/random images??

I see now, so you don't do nothing but stare no breath awareness/body awareness exercise except the staring like for example the falling/going down thing to trick your body to relax/fall asleep you don't do that?.  It's amazing I think this technique works well I was able to accomplish it in a dream state and shut the dream down like you mentioned staring at a object.  How long do you usually keep your eyes open before they start to get tired?  What do you do when you close your eyes aferwards do you do any extra trance exercises or you automatically go to the hypnogogic state? How long does it take the first time you achieved the hypnogogic roughly?  I personally think these are the best techniques when I try doing those rope/water sky technique or whatever my body starts tensing up the staring is by far the best however I think the rope technique is atleast good when you do exit from your body and somehow are still stuck to it and need to pull yourself out thinking/feeling of climbing on a rope helps you break free.

I think I achieved an OBE thanks to you jeff.  This is what happened I had a lucid dream all of a sudden I wanted to stare at an object which I started to do then all of a sudden I became more and more aware I'm actually dreaming then I started hearing a ringing sound in my ear, so I wanted to stare at another object but they were all moving so I said let me just listen to that sound and not pay attention to anything else then I started closing my eye lids then the whole lucid dream stopped at its tracks it blacked out and then all of a sudden I was in my bed I was seeing through closed eyelids,  I immediately rolled out it was easily no effort needed and I saw my body on my bed only problem everything was solid I couldn't go through doors (maybe need to train my mind that I am capable of this) and such and then after several seconds I started seeing anomalies, I wonder how long this lasts?  I knew I did do an OBE because when I woke up I had numbness all over my body especially the third eye.  I know the brain (third eye) releases I believe melatonin to paralyse the body so you don't actually do the moves (like sleep walking) and I had an incident awhile ago when my grandmom passed away she came and visit my mom my mom woke up she went to me the same hour I didn't and spoke to her but same situation I was waking up and I had paralysis.  Very interesting stuff, this sure beats meditation quick way to astral project but it's nice to do it anytime you want though only through meditation one can achieve it.  Can you actually do the same scenario that is stare at objects  as you described while conscious or it has to be while sleeping?

jeff what is the difference between obe and a virtual obe?  Like what exactly happens when you stare at something does your body start to vibrate and the scenary changes?  Do you hear any sounds like a pop/click/noise sound I know when one seperates from the body a noise sound happens.

thats interesting I'll try that out next time I go lucid I'll remember to stare at something in the lucid dream let you know the results.

interesting so it sounds like I am close.  Its amazing how real it is like you are fully aware of your surroundings and can go any direction just that it's not the real world just a virtual world with anomalies (things that shouldn't be there).  Whats the trick to going from a LUCID dream to a OBE, robert said I believe in the book if you are aware you are dreaming or not in a real world and then demand to be in the reall world of thing or go back to your body or something I dunno.  You can imagine how close I come to the real OBE while I sleep so many times I didn't even have to meditate much, the essential oils (agarwood and helichrysum) I'm using are enhancing my dream state a lot with lucid dreams and some of them with virtual type of obe's, I have full control of them I can make myself go to my body and wake up from them but I haven't found the trick where you are aware you're in a virtual dream and you somehow get into obe from it.

I'm just wondering what effect does essential oils have on shielding along with the N.E.W meditation?  I've been trying agarwood from india and helichrysum which is known to enhance oxygen to brain and cerebral function I swear I've been having a lot of LUCID dreams.  One time however I think someone was invading my dream, I woke up in a virtual type OBE (not the real deal) and saw kid over my bed, then he took me to another room then it turned into a dream afterwards and showed me the person who was attacking other people (symbolically) and maybe this person was also attacking me, and when I woke up my whole body was very electric (usually I'd see lucid dreams if my body is energized like this).  What are the symptoms if someone is attacking your psi and you got your shields up so to speak, would the energy start flowing great around the body to ward off the attack?

I read some astral projection books if you read projection of the astral body by sylvan muldoon (check out your local library they may have it) he stated what happens the moment one dies, he was talking about one guy he observed while in his astral body who was addicted to narcotics/alcohol and his life was upside down, he detailed described his aura was brown (which was bad) what happened when he was dying and being resusitated he was in his astral body then he went to grab his booze on the side which he couldn't then woke up then when he finally died he was in a really bad state and went franticly into oblivion once out.  If you can ignore how you feel and think and say to yourself those are not my thoughts and feelings, I know there is a God that created me that loves me and cares for me because he created me and I'm just a pilgrim here on earth then obviously there is no reason how bad things get to ever contemplate suicide, even love your enemies even though they look like they did you wrong visualize yourself hugging them and saying you forgive them.  There is some passive countermeasures you can try aromatherapy is amazing, try getting some helichrysum thats for claryfing, panic disorders, loniliness,anti-depressent, there are others ones that puts peace  one mentioned in robert's book is marjoram.   Read some psychology books dr. joseph murphy is good one power of your subconscious mind will give you reason enough not to even waste your time thinking about suicide or any negative thought (ie fear/anger etc..) and to only think about your desires and what you want to accomplish here on earth.

there are some excellent immune boosters out there that can reduce the inflammation check out your local health store one product is called NONI.  Another good immune booster is check out your local asian store and buy some shark meat and fry it sharks rarely get cancer.  For meditation affirmation books go to your local library/bookstore get dr. joseph murphy power of our subconscious mind lots of prayers in there must be said with faith, also do robert bruce's body awareness/relaxation exercises those are excellent I think to do before you do affirmations because they open up the energy centers and also get some aromatherapy stuff sandalwood is good to burn for meditation incense and marjoram is good to relax the body.