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Keeping my mind on breathing has never helped me at all. I have the same problem clearing my mind, and I'm still learning to do it. I think it's important to learn - I've tried meaningless mantras ("walrus red prime think"), thoughts on my breathing, counting with each breath to 10, trying to occupy my thoughts with an imaginary scene, just listening intently like I'd seen lightning and was waiting for the thunder.

None of it worked as well as I'd liked - I did find that the more relaxed you are, the easier it is to clear your mind. It's also easy to "just listen" if you have entrainment going. The breath counting worked once or twice, but then became ineffective (same with mantras). Imagining a place is usually a practice in frustration.

The easiest thing for me is, if you notice your mind wandering, gently bring it back. It'll wander a lot. Don't get angry at yourself! But build that discipline, and I think you'll find that you'll make progress. Not as fast as you might like, but be patient. Mastery over the mind is not developed easily.

I have one more post now...sooner or later, people will start to adore me here in the forums

Oh c'mon, you already have an amiable presence here. I remember back when I was green on this forum and you were asking people to try and get you out of body if they managed to get out. I got lucid, and I remembered, I told someone "Someone make Kazbadan lucid!" and he went running off making fun of me.

[huge]

There was something about underground cities in the Encyclopedia of the Occult (Greer) that I read recently. I think it was under the Satanism section (or the legend of Faust [which is related to Satanism], but there is a huge amount of media that relates or alludes to Faust, so I can't be specific on that), or something a crazy journalist wrote about a secret civilization of mole-people. There was also an entry about that and the green children, I believe - they came back, same age as they vanished, all green-skinned now, and talked about an underground civilization. Maybe that was in a mysteries book. There's also something under gnomes that would be worth researching.

In any case, that's really interesting. If I had my mystic knowledge down, I could be more specific (and mystical).  

As far as languages in dreams, I've spoken at least Mandarin, Spanish, Japanese, Russian, Italian, Latin, and Aramaic. I have crazy dreams sometimes ...

I don't know exactly what you mean about clothes ... do you forget those a lot in dreams?  

I do believe you said that on the first page

Yeah, and you still haven't explained how it works ...  

Yes there are a lot of people seeing strange things, as there has been down the ages. Due to the information network we have available to us we hear about people seeing strange things, but we never see evidence of these things.

Or we see evidence, but everybody thinks it's a hoax. Have you looked at the psi videos people have made? There's plenty of evidence ... it's just very convenient to throw out everything that didn't happen under controlled laboratory conditions (as if much of the natural world fits there) - and even then ... It's easy for people to even throw out laboratory experiments if it doesn't fit with the dogma of scientism.

Why aren't they ready for it? Enlightenment by definition is a desired state. What is the criteria we use to select who will become enlightened and who will not?

A desired state? I'm sure there are plenty of people who would prefer a rapture or something. We don't use any criteria - people decide on their own when they want to open their eyes.

If science hadn't been decoupled from religion we'd still be living on a flat Earth which was just a few thousand years old.

Why don't you Google the flat earth myth?

If this is the case, then it's acceleration would fit a curve of amazing exponential growth in the last 2 centuries, while lying near horizontal and dormant since the birth of man.

Near horizontal? I don't think so. Maybe you should familiarize yourself with history before making a statement like that. Yes, there was exponential growth, but you're confusing cause and effect.

Projecting takes alot of psychic energy, if you are able to project at will you must have alot of it.

Just as much psychic energy as falling asleep does. There probably is a physiological trigger - I think it very likely that an electrode in the right place would get anybody out. I just hope there's a less invasive way of switching that trigger ...

The watch device sounds interesting.

but after thousands of years we are still arguing over the possibility of paranormal phenomena let alone seeing even a single example of these practices bring any enlightenment to the masses as a whole.

How do you know it isn't, now after thousands of years people have started arguing over the possibility of paranormal phenomena and haven't even seen a single example of these practices? I've heard a lot of amazing stories about paranormal things happening where the modern world hasn't yet taken hold.

The kind of enlightenment you're talking about isn't something the masses are ready for, or even willing to believe.

Also, science didn't just happen. It evolved from those ancient practices.

It can't be disputed that the rate of technological advancement has accelerated at a staggering rate since it was uncoupled from spiritual/religious control.

It can be disputed why it accelerated. I'd say that it was a natural curve - for instance, you invent the computer and now you've accelerated, same with earlier advancements. Civilization advanced then, as it had always been, and later someone called that period of time the "scientific revolution" because it sounded good in a textbook.

I don't know how far from "religious control" the modern heads of science are, how unbiased those who fund science are, or how coupled science is with government. I'd say it's just as negatively influenced now as it ever was.

Maybe it's because it's all really in the eye of the beholder. If you like it, you can have it. It works exactly as you want it to. Pick and choose your accessories

That would be nice. Unfortunately, belief doesn't quite work like that. I believe in OBEs, but do I really believe in them? Do I really believe that I can have an OBE at will? (No, I definitely don't believe that, and I think that's a major problem.) Belief is tricky, and I don't think it works exactly as you want it to.

Also, everyone knows elephants aren't afraid of mice. So, I figure maybe you're mistaken about chakras, too.

I'll attempt to state where I am coming from: In mankind's entire history, spiritual concepts (many of which are still in circulation) have created no great change (although perhaps from a war point of view they have changed political maps). It's only since the advent of science that things have moved forward (including spiritual concepts and the increasing freedom to practice such things openly).

This point is arguable. Have things really moved forward? That depends on your point of view. Some might say things have gone horribly wrong, the scientific revolution is like a blind elephant charging through the Hanging Gardens. When you speak of the advent of science, I think you mean the "Enlightenment", which is ignorant of the fact that technological advancements were happening regardless of the fashionable meme of the time.

How do you know the occult and spiritual practices 1,000 years ago were impotent? Unless you were there, all you have is modern academia's word that it was backward and yielded nothing.

Relax. That's all you can do. The harder you try to break out, the more stuck you'll be. Your body is a tar baby.

Relax enough and you'll slip on out. Just don't fall asleep.  :eyetwitch:

I agree with Ben K, but at the same time I think it can go both ways. Authors are channeling while simultaneously creating the universe, playing the role of both god and observer.

[the]

I'm also curious about the fact that the one state in which we do have a Brain (physical reality) is the only stable state we experience. Everything else (dreams, lucid dreams, day dreams, rtz projection, AP planes etc) is highly inconsistent and can change and fluctuate based upon desires. Is this coincidence? Why is the one area of mind which creates a 'brain'/perception of a having a brain so stable, and quite resistant to individual desire or belief system types when no other area is?

This is a very good question and one I'd like an answer to myself. I think it's the question as far as OBEs are concerned.

People have chakra's because they like them. People can cast spells because they believe in them. There is even the possibility of running in to something impossible because you believe it when someone says you can't.

I don't know how much I agree here. People don't see elephants because they like them - you go to the zoo, and there they are. I'm not sure chakras are imaginary, but I'm equally unsure they're real. How can spells work if you're the only one to believe in them? Do you just re-interpret ordinary events as being an extraordinary success?

You'd think that if you believed you could AP every day at will you would ... but I don't know if that's the case either. Maybe my consciousness is just being difficult, though ... any word on how much of belief is subconscious and how much conscious? Or is the subconscious just another belief to you?

I don't doubt the power of belief, but saying everything is a matter of belief is kind of a cop-out.

Of course, any sales pitch that offers a solution to so many things is suspect. Any sales pitch is suspect - but the software here has a lot of functionality I'm looking for as far as entrainment goes (and I have a suspicion when it comes to entrainment, not every brain is the same, so you need something a little more customized). I'm pretty impressed by the functionality. I wish there was a 10-day demo or something, a shareware version so I could give it a try. Definitely interested, though.

I have created a website/forum for young writers (though pretty much anyone can participate). It's bare-bone right now, but it's all functional. I'd be honored if you took a look and decided to participate.

youngwritersforum.net

I think it's easier to just say, F2. It makes a lot more sense, too.

I read your post, but it's not clear to me. Are you saying, blindfold yourself, and when you wake up, you'll see hynogogic imagery?

did any of you try it anyway?

Please write a short explanation of this experiment. I'll get a scarf and try it once I understand better what it is I'm doing.  

Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.
-Carl Sagan

A religious quote from a religious man. Science is a method. Once it becomes a way of thinking, of living, it becomes a religion.

It is true, there is no such thing as objective proof, just acceptance by academia for what goes in the textbooks as being reality. Since proof isn't possible in the absolute sense, what we, normal people, term as "proof" means something different. Ben K demands proof to be something that isn't possible, knows it isn't possible, and therefore states that everything is a matter of belief (which is true). It's not proved unless everyone believes it, as far as Ben K is concerned.

As far as the card experiment, all it shows is that a person can guess what a set of cards will be against some probability. It does not prove how the person does this, and science probably never will. Science is incapable of proving the wider reality, it is grounded to this one. The best it can do is say, this person can do what he claims (as long as what he claims to do has some relation to this reality), but there is no evidence whatsoever for how he does it.

Simply, OBEs never will be proved, only accepted (or not) by what evidence can be shown.

I have the Scapini tarot (love that one) ... I approach it with some trepidation. I find that I don't always want to know the truth. At the same time, I feel that the tarot may be a form of psi, your subconscious choosing the card it believes to be correct. Also, the future is always changing, so you have to keep that in mind with tarot and readings for the future.

sci·ence
n.

1a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
1b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
1c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.

No, science isn't supposed to be a way of thinking. I hope qbeac has lots of success, I even wish I could contribute by experimenting, but my feeling is ... the best science will ever manage is to show that a person in a certain state of relaxation has a certain likelihood of correctly guessing remote information.

I'm more interested in definition 2 above - inducing an OBE down to a science.  

I find that wearing a sleeping mask helps me. It creates a nice, deep, uniform darkness, excellent for the noticing exercise and visualization.

The problem I have with sleeping masks is they itch, but worse, there's always some seam around my nose or cheekbones that lets light in - and being obsessive as I am, well, it renders the mask useless. What I really want is some of those VR goggles, plug that into a Winamp visual plugin or even BWGEN's little screen flasher.

I doesn't seem like any question meant for "gurus" ever gets answered. I think they're in short supply. At least everyone else is honest and doesn't answer with something like:

Nine inner senses, yes, and pink is the color of the 6th, and corresponds to the 17th chakra, and mauve is the color of the 7th, and it is this sense that allows me to see All, and turquoise is the color of the 8th, and this is the sense of Indigo children to communicate with their alien cousins, and gold is the color of 9th, and it is the sense of the arch-angels and the enlightened ones.

1. Don't worry about that. Just think about being in your body and that'll probably do the trick. One way or the other, you'll get back despite what you might do.

2. No, you can be having an OBE and not see your body on the bed. A lot of people report not seeing their body. They may be simply more "out of phase" with the physical. Just because details in your room don't look the same as in real life doesn't mean you're not having an OBE, either.

We want everyone, no matter how much they dissbelieve to be able to project... And as Jake can't We still have a long long way to go.

You might want to re-think this. I don't believe astral projection was meant for those who aren't prepared for it ... though, I admit for some, other parts of them decide spontaneously it's time.

Try testing your device on a wider range of people, see how that works. If you try changing everything just to suit one person, you could be going way off track with it. You need to experiment with a wider base first.