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Thanks wisp you're such a helpful dude! If I'll have time I will summarize all the knowledge we got so far then feed it back to the forum.

We will pioneer this project, then, you know, we'll be rich and famous, bonking celebrities all day long. In the interim (and even after that) other accounts are welcome.

Here it is a magic symbol I designed to attracts these accounts, especially of those that have been taken place in ASP:
][>o<][  ((o)) c=3''

(the second part is more like about the celebration)

Too much hypothesizing here. If you are talking about how to leave ordinary dream states the followings practices will be useful. To begin with, keep in mind that most dreams are surrounded by a wall like structures that very difficult to pass through. For instance, if you fly long enough in one direction eventually you will get the impression that you are inside an enormous plate. The ground starts to emerge at the verge of this plate and you'll be forced to land in front of this wall.

The wall could have many appearances. In my case it mostly looks like a botched up tunnel system. When I attempt to get outside the visuals decompose into repetitive patterns and the projection become instable. Also there is a patrol like activity inside the tunnels, fairly automatic and aggressive that will make the transition fearful. Many people reported similar experiences.

However, my favorite method to exit dreams is to walking into dream walls. Inside there at first I have to get out from a bubble I tend to drag along like a womb-like cavity like an extension of the dream that still connects me. Then I stabilize my perception with my palm until it the darkness gains some depth. I have to look through it. Sometimes I feel pre-exit vibrations (sign of deeper sleep and leaving the REM state). At this point I'm in a great space, grey or brownish in general, with some unknown activity in the depth that I could zoom on.

I found that the best way to leave ordinary dream states is to having a strong declaration and regularly speaking it aloud, avoiding conversations with dream characters and stop thinking. I prefer to look around from elevated spots, like rooftops where I could be alone and have a look on the entire dream-scape. Then I start systematically disregarding dream hallucinations by moving my attention around. I focus on distant buildings and objects long enough in order to make hallucinations melting. I keep the sightings of every stable elements that attract my attention and disregard those that change or become transparent.

Nowadays I learned to do it while am flying in autopilot mode. First of, I order my energy body to take me out from the dream, voicing my intent as simple and specific as I am able to, then I just let myself to soar free. To keep my attention coherent but detached and to avoid involuntary awakenings I focus on my palm. I steal a glance of my environment only for mere curiosity but careful enough to not interfere with the process. Otherwise there is a risk of zooming away or falling apart amongst all of those reach visuals I used to immersed within.

At first usually I move between characteristic symbols of this borderland area like strange buildings and giant factories. Interestingly, my movement is rather flowing than actual flying since I'm totally passive being carried by some current. The carrier force love to take me through every little hole and passages we may encounter. I (we) even gain speed inside narrow entrances like I'd be a little particle drifting in water. Alongside with flying through vertical surfaces, I consider these maneuvers as attempts to detach my attention from the environment.

Eventually the dream-scape will decompose into a bunch of various surreal objects and building like complexes. I've found that microchip like structures, and organic patterns are prominent symbols of this state. They are interspersed in the space or sitting on some fluid, transparent landscapes in constant motion. These are proved to be symbols of other realms that are more stable than ordinary dreams.

Anyway, flying become totally useless. If I try to approach a symbol by flying I'd only get closer to its dream representation, and eventually I would hover above a lifeless miniature of a city or something like that. This size inconstancy is sure sign of missing the refocusing process that have to occur when I move between independent reality systems. To "travel" this "inter-dimensional matrix" I have to focus my sight on a valid symbol and long enough to trigger the zooming effect. Then zoom turns into flying and I would enter the airspace of the chosen reality system, falling off from above and landing. Other times I just appear somewhere as if by magic. Either way the transition has been completed and everything became normal again.

Usually I project by simple intent and inner silence, from a passive and receptive state of mind. I use OBE induction loops, kinda like softwares of the mind. However, when I feel myself too rigid, centered in my body, even though I have done 5 or more loop, I start to incorporate some phasing sequences. Your RV Method seems very similar to one of my favorite. It also contains the maneuvers of expansion and polarity flip (my latest interests in phasing). So, I'd like to hear about your further experiences.

As for myself, I do the expansion again and again but I tend to skip the condensation sequence. When I'm unable to zoom out through the swirling darkness of the expanded state, I would just let myself collapse back directly into the flipped position (I've observed that the polarity flip seems to occur spontaneously only after various forms of interpreted expansion  like hypnagog sequences, brief dreams or unconsciousness.)

At this point I expect myself in a state apt for separation. So, I concentrate on the top of my head and try to roll out very slowly. If it doesn't work, I try to swirl my energy field around the lenght axis of my body, picturing myself inside a little horizontal tornado. If I'm deep enough or do the swirl long enough I could get the real spin and am able to separate.

If it doesn't work my sleep isn't deep enough and instant separation won't be possible. I have to increase vibrations (sleep synchronization) by imagining myself breathing into a point above my head, collapsing my body and pushing myself upwards through the centre of my head with every exhalation.  

When I feel ready, I try to get the vibrations by imagining myself being hit on my face repeatedly, flowing the nascent current down to my solar plexus, then smoothing out the vibrations by the swirling action. The effects of hits weaken quickly and I need some rest.

At this point I just observe myself as I observe myself or start some phasing sequences. Usualy I imagine noises of colliding objects, distant barking, palpating various things from the distance like walls, furnitures, woman's breasts (nobody can escape from my hands).

At other times I use either the expansion sequence or imagining myself going upwards in a lift to the top of a skyscreeper. You have described the expansion, so I'll descibe the lift scene.

Basically I use the lift to substitute the pushing and expansion. When I reach the top floor in my imagination, driven by the expectation to see the night sky behind, I swing open a little trapdoor on the top of the cabin. If I've prepared the environment well enough, my vision will stabilize at this point I'd zoom through the hole. After that, I'd likely find myself within the same darkness I see inside dream walls (should be the interpreted version of the swirling dankness of the expanded state).

Otherwise I would simply continue my imagination to climb through the hole onto the top of the skyscraper. It's a very little hole and I have to struggle a lot. Sometimes I climb through various trapdoors one after the other - a trick I've learned in dreaming. Basically it works as the hypnagogic counterpart of the pushing action I exert against the centre of my head.

The top of the building looks similar to my bedroom without walls. It serves as an F21 launchpad, a dream interpretation of my bedroom. I lay down at the middle taking the position of my sleeping body to separate from this imagined body within another one in order to solidify the imagination into a dream. If I succeed I take some careful looks to further stabilize the vista, order targets on the horizon and zoom away.

At other times I just lay down at the edge of roof with the depth at my left and wait or walk round and round, looking on familiar objects until the scene solidifies. Brief glimpses are essential to fake the imagination into life.

I feeling space and distance always at my left, and the presence of my sleeping body at my right. Walking in counter-clockwise won't work as good because of the opposite amygdala / hyppocampus activation, I suspect.

When the scene looks real I anchor myself to the dream by grabbing objects. Otherwise I just jump off the building. I'd get a strong falling sensation and when I hit the ground I'd be in the vibrational stage and start the loop again.

I know what you mean, Dagalvyi, mostly from my twin dreaming practices. I have been ejected many times when I tried to take the twin position. This has the same feeling of suddenly slipping into a "deeper trance." One of my limbs jump out (mostly my arm) or without any conscious effort from my part, a force will simply push me out. It is not a belief construct, or at least not more than eating is, because I've ejected many times, even at my first when I expected reconnection.

What are your theories about this?

It happens after the brain has slip into a deeper sleep. Highly synchronous activity of the cortical neurons (delta sleep) makes the brain a very unfriendly place for cognition. It locks out the brain associated energy field in which our personality actually resides. When you reach delta sleep separation happens automatically and you can't reconnect.

Why bother trying?

Because twin dreaming is a very good practice that not only able to stabilize your projection (take the position in F22 then slip inside to reach deeper sleep), but it could also teach you layered and simultaneous dreaming, that is, using two or more dream body at the same time. Also, sometimes, when you take the wrong position or lay back in the opposite direction, it may let you to wake up in a parallel F22 where your other incarnations or probable selves dream.

YES>>>i LIVE right beside this insane monstrosity that is suppose to be a grid-hub for the east-coast in (atlanta). strangely enough at heart...i'm an off-grid girl, and it wasn't intentional that i wind up here (where i'm at), but for the time being it's all there is.

Perhaps the "astral counterpart" of that grid hub is responsible for your misery. You seem to be an experienced projector. Perhaps you should go there, and investigate for yourself. I'd be very curious about your findings.

The sensed presence as well as the irrational fear seem to be the result of anomalous temporal lobe activity. Amygdala, the fear center is just beneath the temporal lobe. Since pre-OB states are obviously characterized by seizures in the temporal lobe, associated anomalous limbic activation is very likely.

Eastern gurus say we should concentrate the nada sounds only on the right side. Also, you may remember to the not so old news that scientist found that stimulating the right angular gyrus causes OBE like symptoms. (It's well known that this kind of stimulation not increase the activity of local neurons but switch them off, thus separation is most likely result of some failure in the neuromatrix.) Perhaps triggering OBE is a function of the right temporal lobe.

Another observation: when I force separation I often feel a pull on the left side of my body, just below my solar plexus. I feel this spot too when I overflow my sub navel storage center in full waking consciousness. Since ascending nerves cross in the spinal tract or at the level of the thalamus, this spot is likely a projection of a brain structure from the opposite side.

At this point it doesn't seem rash to say that there should be a structure (or loosely localized functional unit) in the right hemisphere of the brain, presumably in the right temporal lobe, that failure trigger separation. It's a well known fact that the right amygdala, which is very close to this area, is responsible for the hallucination of fearful presences. You can test it if you like. Which is more pleasant, imagining a presence at your left or your right?

http://www.innerworlds.50megs.com/neuromed.htm

Well, I'm mad but happy. Who cares?

That was hilarious! If don't have an exceptional memory you're a f***ing great poet!

Please record the song and upload to the forum. We'll be delighted to hear it in your original performance.

Thanks wisp!

It's definitely sounds like uninterpreted real time sight. Was she coming out from sleep when it happened?

Big kisses to your daughter,
>>> upstream

Thanks Tom, I plan to stay for a while.

As for the power lines I was quite obsessed with them in my early years of projection. Eventually I've found a rational explanation. But first, the phenomenology if you don't mind.

When the lines appear they always rule the sky. In the very first stage they are usually unrecognizable as power lines but nevertheless play a central role in the dreamscape. Have been reading other people experiences on the Net, it seems that usually the lines appear at first when the dreamer try to fly upwards. The lines could have many appearances, from parallel shining lines against the background of the the sky to more concrete forms of various kind of electrical wires. They are not necessary power lines but somehow always stand in the path of the dreamer's flying path.

Although have been felt quite powerful from the very beginning, they tend to gain shape only in the further stages. This goes hand in hand with the process in which the dream body loses all the funny gadgets that has been used previously to make flying more believable at the levels of lower lucidity. Wings, flying carpets, armchairs, bicycles and other funny devices start to disappear, only the dream body remains. In the latter stage it disappears too, only the lines remain as unavoidable obstacles on the flying path.

I have had some important observations regarding my movement around the lines. I have to say, all these observations have been made before I start to think on the power lines as possible intrusion of real objects. So, the observations or rules are:

1. No matter how roughly the direction I fly on points toward the lines I will pass them right through.

2. If I come on a path that parallel to the lines with great speed I would zoom along the lines like a wind current, taking great distances without getting off or loosing RTZ sight - could be a possible method for longer travels in the RTZ. In one cases I even slitted into two current at a junction of the lines and traveled in two direction at the same time.

3. In my most impactful experience, I observed the two above rule and a third one as a result of my efforts to escape. I dropped from the sky on a hyperbolic orbitgot into a little unknown village, tried to avoid but passed through some lines ahead (first rule) and landed on the mossed roof of a little church to rest and re-orientate myself. I closely focused on the moss to sharp my perception, and flew down the main road only to realize I trapped along by the lines again (rule #2). I tried to escape flying upwards. First it seemed to work but after one or two second I saw other wires, now, above me. I did this a couple of times with the same result: when I tried to diverge I got only new wires and found myself exactly where I come from; my distance from the ground remained the same.

After awakening I've searched my dream diary, found similar accounts and realized the above rules. I hypothesized not only the electromagnetic interaction but the "visual interpreter" you saw in action at the end of my village experience. Now I think that the improper appearence of lines in the first stages correspond with more deloclised (decondensated) states of the sensory field (energy body). The more decondensed the energy body from the viewpont of a hypothetical waking observer the more dream like the experience is. But before 2000 I couldn't explain why have power lines a condensating effect on the energy body.

But thanks for Tom Bearden now I know the explanation. According to Bearden physic text books have failed to tell us about that only less than 1% of the energy travel inside the wires, the bulk (called the Heaviside component) remains outside of the conductors. Thus, there is an enormous amount of energy seemingly having collected from the entire vacuum through space curvatures. They make space literally "inclined" toward the wires which explain the first two rule and the tendency of condensation toward the lines.

It's interesting to note that many UFO and light ball sightings have been reported in the closure of high tension power lines. I have even read an account about a diffuse light cloud that has been seen condensating around the lines and getting the classical disk shape before it dematerialized again. Perhaps some light balls are really just a group of interdimensional traveller we inclined to interpret as UFOs.

Maybe light golden reddish brown?

Would you consider minor reality fluctuations (but overall the experience corresponding to physical) as being in F22 rather than RTZ? Or would you consider it RTZ with temporary lapses into F22 as peer falling into a dream bubble (lucid or non-lucid)?

In my view, F22 is the base level of lucid dreaming as well as of mutual dreaming as long as level of awareness is sufficient. It certainly overlaps with the real (F12) RTZ and the territories where people live without physical organism. Ordinary flying dreams marked by elevated yet not lucid level of awareness, seemingly as a result of the act of flying. Usually these dreams are bright and stable and apparently situated between the "real" RTZ and F22.

"Below" this level (I'm not sure though) flying become a mess. The landscape is chaotic threatening the stability of my projection with instant awakening. Could be a mixture of different peoples' different dreams superimposing onto each other. This is where mutual dreaming occurs and high tension power lines tend to come into view to grab the flyer's back to RTZ.

Power lines are markers along the way that leads from F22 to RTZ and back (see my RTZ guide for details). In this state the energy body is slightly decondensed into room sized volumes and flying is like being a wind current: it's hard to change my momentum but I have no difficulties controlling the direction. Like riding a vector or something.

When I fly into a house through a window with great speed (besides the heightened possibility for realizing that I have a hitchhiker attached on my dream body) I often feel myself zap back to human shape and get a more accurate form perception. The perception could be either F12 or F22 RTZ at this point. This is where the two focus level overlap via reality fluctuations. They are, according to my model, lapses in perception caused by fluctuations of the energy body (hence the name 'fluctocondensation'). From the point of a waking observer it should be a brief expansion of the energy field that quicky followed by its retraction again provided that the "objective" perception has been successfully restored thereafter.

It's interesting to note that TMI F22 had exactly the same pattern as F21, so there should be no big difference between F21 and F22 in terms of consciousness. The difference in the focus and interpretation of the experiences. A couple of days ago when I tried to remember some of my visions about the topology of the emanation cone, labeling its connections with the traditional focus codes and mapping its relations to various brain states, chakras and other upstream like activities in the hope I could explain myself better I realized that I have a little mess in my head... Well I cached myself "writing" "F21" at two places: on the thalamocortical network (crown chakra) and the expanse of the emanation cone (Earth's magnetosphere = periphery of human aura). Although I'm not sure, it's quite possible that in some of my posts I made the very same mistake, reversing F21 with F27. Not to mention the fact that the shape of number 7 is like the shape of 1, could be an explanation that I rather think in abstract pictures than focus numbers. I have to check out my posts though, something I certainly won't do because I don't understand my English.

To answer your questions, it seems to me, as walking keeps you in F22, flying detach you from it and take you to the middle of the RTZ continuum, the fluid landscape then the power-line zone. This is where F22 and real RTZ smoothly blink into each other. If you get inside a building you likely get back to F22, that is, back inside a dream bubble or mental representation of the building as it exist in the mind, either personally or mutually of people who live there. You may say this is RTZ and I have to agree. It's really an inter-subjective state. But I don't think that hard core objective perception wouldn't be possible. For that you need bioplasm to anchor the condensatum. I think it's quite possible to stole some from people especially when they sleep or they muscles are relaxed. Indoor plants and specially designed EM fields could help too.

A great way to test our focus level is trying to get inside a wall. Walls are permeable in RTZ, act like honey in the intermediate states and work like gateways into the 3D darkness in F21/F22.

Tom, do you remember my opinion that we are (as individual beings or aspects of our Higher Selves) actually in F22 even right now in this holy moment? I think we are already dead, imprisoned into the lowest known part of the human belief territory system, Focus Level 22. Fully understanding this fact is so important for the practice of what some members would call here as phasing into (F22) RTZ since this process is rather a change in our focus than going out.

In my opinion, our brains are aspects of our F22 mind, thus, saying we are inside our brains is not such a distorted view. Yet not as pertinent as saying that our physical life is only dreamed by our astral body and our brain is nothing more than our F22 mind sensed through our physical organs. So, to summarize the above, in my opinion we are in the "lower astral" right now but our similarly designed physical senses (operating around the level of F12) set up some coherency and synchronize our (quasi) individual dream bubbles into a shared experience we call waking life. Does it make sense for you?

I can't help you but found your experiences very interesting and in some extent similar to those of mine. Do you think those complexes are designed to trap such mobile explorers like you? Have you been able to figure out what structure they have? Are they designed for not letting something in or to keep something inside? I have no clue what they are.

I didn't understand exactly how your experiences tend to unfold though. Do you mean first you "morph into a wall" (what does it mean exactly?), then you appear in that mysterious complex (is it always the same?) only to found yourself being haunted by something/someone? How do they look like?

I'm curious because your experiences seem to be a strange mixture of RTZ projections and passing through dream borders. How good is your memory?

Regular dreams are surrounded by wall like structures many in appearance. There is patrol like activity there, fairly aggressive and automatic like the immune system.

I use walls to get out from dream bubbles into a gray or brown space underneath all. What are your walls from inside? That de-focusing thing seems like changing focus level without the help of walls. Is it your attempt to escape when walls don't work?

I too have difficulties going through walls when I'm in the RTZ. Sometimes there is a grid like structure inside that become slightly displaced when I try to pass through them and they hold me back. I suppose they are water-conduits and/or electric lines inside. Have you ever been trapped along high tension power lines in your extensive flights?

I'm too attacked in this zone every now and again. Dogs notice me and become fearful and angry shooting out weird formless creatures that dissipate within a couple of meters. Also, there are weird beings there that try to attach themselves onto my body. They slow down my usual winged pace in exchange for some... travel guide service. They just narrate what's happening like a radio that have been left on.

I have no clue what those complexes are. Are you live near a power station or extensive antenna system installed on the ground? I suppose they can build into dreams in such a way. Perhaps it's pertinent to say,  welcome in the RTZ.

Thanks for your feedback.

Well, the not caring attitude leads to the development of other inner senses rather than the objectified version of the astral/physical-like senses.

I think the crucial point to get that fluidity in perception is to get rid of the human interpretatory system. It should be a distinct shift in awareness not a dreamy wandering. The trick could be simply to loose the human shaped second body and the rest will follow. The ability to reach those higher, more abstract regions of the consciousness as well as opening up our inner senses might depend solely on this maneuver. But more experimentation needed. However, I'm quite sure that non-ordinary astral experiences are simply uninterpreted forms of the conventional "astral dreams."

Tom, I've read the handshake post you pointed out. I quite like it but...you know, since my funny initial experiments have been done here, I prefer to remain quiet when I couldn't be constructive. But you certainly deserve to be honest with. Well, without Frank post your adventure was lovely but after he made that tricky reply lol it became more like a smooth playing of two lovely swindler, if you know what I mean. Innocent self-deception, like number magic.

It would be a pleasure to be wrong with this but I admit I'm too critical. I'm sure my attitude could hindrance my progress but I've chosen this way of doing things. All I know I know for sure: mutual dreaming is possible. Ok, I have many experiences with weird things that for others may have been taken as evidence for something, but I'm from those people who have never enough. All I have at this moment is some faint memories about something big and bright and an indestructible faith in future.

a couple of weeks I ago you posed for me like in a rotating otherwise picture-still image Are you really blond, so handsome and in your twenties? You always struck me as older so in this case it's probably a miss in objectified terms

Well, I'm indeed a very handsome guy, shouldn't have been that difficult to figure out. But I have brown hair. I was blond before my puberty but now close to 28 time seems go faster and my hair turned brown. Though I still look younger my age deep inside I remain an old man who prefer to enjoy the freedom of a pensioners' life.

I realize some have described F22 as the "place" where people dream. But dreaming can follow so seamlessly from an valid OBE that I personally really have difficulty according it a different number as if it is about dichotomous states. Let's say I'm in an RTZ projection, walk out the house, everything fits perfectly. Then I turn the corner on the street, and suddenly I see a different landscape than there is in reality. I. My awareness is as lucid as it was before. Did my brain waves really change? Did I really enter a different state?

I think you indeed did enter a different state but remained in the same focus. F22 is infinite since there are infinite dreams to be dreamed. If it would be possible, it should be "more infinite" than the physical lol. I think that each and every particular brain state is a superposition of every possible "inner state" that exist inside the continuum of consciousness. It's quite obvious if you think about it. We are tips of an ice berg from both direction (you know, cones), living, personified symbols of some self-realizing world process. Of course, infinite inner states couldn't correspond with infinite EEG-spectras since this technology has a very poor resolution. Just think about the focus tapes as an example of something even worse in accuracy. TMI made them by reverse engineering of talented subjects' EEG spectras. They even use the same audio pattern for F26 & F27 and for F21 & F22. But regarding just F23 for example, how many people could you meet there? And how many places?

A couple of times I've catched the mechanism how dream bubbles fuse. Radical change in the environment means that you reached a border of a dream pool that exists by someone or a group's intent. For example, in on of my early projection as I've been flying around in a quite stable nightly environment I picked up a bright window. I overshot it but hooked my limb into a salient on the roof. My limb stretched comically but has done its job and pulled back myself. I was about to climb through the window when I saw a man rapidly approaching it from inside. He had a gun and he seemed angry. I got afraid since getting a couple of bullets haven't seemed a good idea in that highly lucid state. I tried to become invisible by a trick worked before. It's like frozening, stopping my inner movements, thoughts, etc. He stepped through the window without any sign of noticing me. As I followed him with my eyes I found that I'm not anymore on the roof of that 2 store house where I landed but am standing in a dingy garden just before a wooden door of some garden house. Obviously the door was in the place of the window. I saw the man putting his gun into a little box on the wall then walking away. So I went to the box opened it and take out the gun. It was made of garbage like wires and wood sticks, seemed like a toy. I heard the narrator voice replying my question in my head confirming, it's totally harmless. The voice was right as always, but at this time it/he/she found out a great way for teaching! Well, to keep myself on the safe side I decided to put the gun in my pocket to prevent violent friend for further cool actions. I went inside the house to explore. I saw animals in hutches along the brief corridor. I was half way down when the door has swung open behind me. I spun back in terror only to see this warped guy broke in holding the same gun in his hand lol. He didn't leave any chance for me to escape than spinning back into my body. It took a couple minutes to figuring out what happened and where I made my mistake.

Feel free to visit and shout on the street for my attention, but be careful with entering the house, since my dogs are truly vicious.

Thanks for the warm invitation. I might throw some pebbles at your windows upstairs to not wake up your wife. Otherwise please lock up the dog when I ring the door. Animals adore me but safety first. You'll see I'm a nice person but be prepared I have quite a sweet tooth.

Noticing is a very basic method for by-passing the habitual way of getting asleep, I mean, loosing consciousness at one point. Usually our mind falls apart through straggling lines of thoughts when it try to interpret and explain our concerns. This corresponds with loosing the sufficient frontal lobe activity (it needs the "most sleep"), so concentrating on your third eye will help.

At the first glance, turning off the internal duologue seems essential for the projection of consciousness. Generally it can be done by two ways, one is to forcing thoughts to stop with the external help of a clock or letting thoughts cease to exist naturally by observing something that's strong enough to absorb our entire attention. Watching the inner screen in phasing does the latter (If you activate your solar plexus chakra as the main trance pusher, sleep synchronization will speed up and pulsating circles start to manifest, ending the stage of that boring homogeneous field of lights.)

Anyway, the goal is to attain a passive and receptive state of mind. However, to do that, disabling the inner duologue is not necessary at all. You can set up a narrative inner voice too in order to objectively describe what you see behind your closed eyes (in phasing style) or feel inside your body (in OBE style). If you do it properly, by establishing a feedback loop, the narration will intensify the sensations you are focusing on. It is very good for getting more picture and sensation at the beginning, but in the latter stages it tends to put you into normal sleep.

To avoid this you should detach this thread from your mainstream consciousness by regarding the inner voice as something external that comes from your subconscious. Using a monotonous and strange tone will help you to do that. The main point is that you should let the voice describe your sensations without interpretation and censorship on your part, otherwise the habitual sleep process will be triggered. A fast, continuous voice is the best.

Sometimes in deep meditation I catch myself that I have been speaking with someone, something that explain things. I often ask questions aloud in dreaming too and there is always a voice with some answer. It's quiet at first but if I plug in my dream ears I miss only the first words. I suppose our mind is composed from various sub-selves that normally cannot speak and when we try to force inner silence they could revive at some point. More integrated (let's say "super") selves like the Higher Self as well as "regular spirits" could use this interface too if we let them intrude our system through similar exercises.

I just put it as something interest to play with...

Yoyo-yo. Hello Tom!

I don't care at this point anymore whether the sky is blue or green while OBE, and not caring seems to make an important difference.

Sure it does but would this "not caring" attitude serve us in every circumstances? If it doesn't matter what we perceive and we can't trust in our experiences, then what for this all projection stuff about? (I'm really curious about your opinion.)

Perhaps I'm more liberal in my definitions, since it doesn't matter much IMO.

I see your point but substituting known terms with more inaccurate might decapitate discussions before they start. I like exact definitions and when I start to get bored with them I prefer poetry.

My point is simple: it wouldn't seem to be a good idea to call these experiences as "Real Time Zone projections" since we have more exact terms like "F22 projections" (please disprove me for the fun of it) not to mention this hilarious but appropriate label, "Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming." They have simple descriptions that may prevent further confusion later on. Moreover, the fact that F22 experiences seem to happen not exactly in real time the label 'RTZ' is more than a misnomer here.

Beside this I agree with every single word you wrote in your last post. What I like more than stirring discussions by contradicting people is reaching consensus in peace. I may visit you soon and we'll check that new chair together.

If you feel yourself rocking let this sensation build further in a permissive manner. Do not try to interfere with the rhythm. Feeling the vibes coming in waves is perfectly normal, it has physiological reasons. When they strong enough picture yourself inside a little horizontal tornado that encompasses your entire body. It sucks out tension and smooths out the vibrations.

Besides that mentioned above the only information I have found is from the Gateway Manual:

Prospecting #3: Null Point - This exercise can lead you to a rich and lasting gold vein in the mine of your mind. This vein was unearthed in our laboratory while working with test subjects. Our laboratory, instruments suggest that the Null Point is where the body?s electric polarity shifts into a neutral phase. Our subjects have found that the Null Point provides a useful "window" for heading in any direction of mind activity. At the Null Point, you may purposefully decide exactly what to explore. To reach this state of pure potential, after completing the preparatory process, go to Focus 10, then to Focus 12. Then the Hemi-Sync signals can guide you beyond Focus 12 to the Null Point.

Prospecting #4: Plus Polarity - Strike it rich! The purpose of this exercise is to lead you through the Null Point to the opposite polarity from where you started. Various studies indicate there is reason to believe that the body's polarity routinely shifts from positive to negative and back again in cycles. Our research suggests that a deliberate shift in polarity indicates that one is experiencing a change in consciousness. We have observed that such a shift indicates a substantial change from C-1 awareness to nonphysical awareness. Go from the preparatory process to Focus 10, then to Focus 12. Allow the frequencies to assist your shift in polarity. Pay attention to subtle changes in your awareness. Notice if you recognize more aspects of nonphysical energy. As with all the tapes in this home-study course, the Hemi-Sync signals will bring you back to your starting point.

Prospecting #5: Near Reaches - Stake your personal claim in the physical universe. Complete the preparatory process and go on to Focus 12. Passing through the Null Point in this exercise can lead, you to discover untold treasures in and of time and space.

Prospecting #6: Far Reaches - What's farther than the vast reaches of the physical universe? The infinite nonphysical energy systems that go beyond time and space. From the preparatory process, Focus 10, and Focus 12, pass through the Null Point and begin your hunt. Dig deep. Soar high. You?re now beyond words. All that you have learned through your Gateway Experience has prepared you for your journeys.

In a previous thread I have played with the idea what if the spontaneous 180 degree body rotation (on the axis perpendicular the body lenght axis) mentioned by many is symbolizes the flip around this mysterious "null point." If this so, the "null point" is somewhere between F12 & F15.

But for the God's sake Tom, this wasn't a real time zone projection. I couldn't agree anymore. Or is it just a problem of terminology? If this is so, then what we should call those experiences in which you have no body at all just drift on as a blob of awareness yet perceive the objective reality?

I've done many hundreds of conscious projection but only a couple of dozen were taken place in the Real Time Zone. It seems like the natural exit level has a tendency to shift further away from all those primer sensory experiences that we have through the sleeping body. This why the state of intense vibration would be gone by time. I haven't had spontaneous RTZ projections except my first two years.

Andali, if you want real RTZ adventures (which is highly advisable for substantiating valid astral explorations) I advice you to follow my guide I posted a while ago ("A Guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs") As you might see "LDs" stands for F22 experiences that are apparently similar to those you have had.

You're right about that doors couldn't be opened in the RTZ. Walls exerts only a temporal resistance before you able to pass through them. Leaving the RTZ is indeed like a continuum, but with close inspection you may be able to recognize some points where your perception has flicked somehow. For example you may found yourself in another place when you turn back or zoom on a distant building that's already far away from the RTZ.

Andali, your projection was a fairly typical OBE-like projection from its start to end. Floating out with the top half of the dream body at first is very typical for these projections as opposite to the leg first style of more heavy and blind projections. Yours has taken place just "above" the 3D void, somewhere around F22 where all objects are mental representations yet could be shared by other dreamers. It's a great place for practicing zooming and mutual dreaming!

I was having a discussion with someone today, and he made a good point. That is, it is impossible to let go off intent.

Now that we have reached consensus I will describe what I mean by suspending the intent. Suggestions are powerful medium of intent. We should use suggestions not as mantras otherwise they will lost their meaning fairly quickly. Rather, we should change phrasing continuously in order to sustain the intent behind.

Intent becomes powerful if it is followed by deep silence of the mind. I used to gradually increase this silence while I'm concentrating on my totality (entire volume of my body, noises and entopics, etc.) until no more words required. Only abstraction of my intent remains suspended in silence.

Maybe I should pay better attention... I hate reinventing the wheel... but on the other hand, I guess it shows independent validation of the same effect.

Exactly! And I found your description very accurate.

When I've been doing my first flights from the balcony of our house I've discovered that by choosing directions I chose between dream pools too. Mapping dreams is my utmost interest.

I don't remember this being discussed. Can you point us to the thread, upstream?

Sure. I've searched for it but found only a not so big discussion. The title is "Pixels and 2-D images in the Astral Plane" @ http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14827.

My confusion may due to an another source (extremely relevant) I've found lately on a discussion board where a Russian group of dreamers, the Dreamhackers have introduced themselves for the West.

http://p197.ezboard.com/fsustainedreaction98489dreamingdiscussions.showMessage?topicID=170.topic
http://p197.ezboard.com/fsustainedreaction98489dreamingdiscussions.showMessage?topicID=125.topic

Watch out, this is really a psychotic board with lot of egomaniacs. But apparently they are not weekend dreamers like many people on these forums.

Below,when I dive into the dream-earth, I enter a realm that becomes very heavy,and I can't remain for long.

Wow Jason. I should try this. Thank you for sharing. Going through 10-15 dream in a row? It should have been a potent stabilizer of your projection. Was it indeed very stable after 3-5 changes?

Please reformulate your question.

I can't agree anymore. Intent is definitely not suspended but hiding in the upper corner of the mind, perhaps just above the left where its middle part deviates from the right. Should I say that I'm just kidding here?

Anyway, what is intent?

Even if your definition is only remotely similar to mine, emptying your mind wont dissolves intent but makes it more powerful. This is from where my original OBE method came. Emptying the mind is essential to brake off the serotonin-erg modulation that stabilizes the waking state. Visualization or absorbing attention in the visual field have similar effect: suspend the internal dialog.

I agree on what you say about "wandering" or "drifting." It is letting your mind fall apart along seemingly random thoughts, associations. I'm inclined to add my pseudo-scientific explanation here, if you don't mind, since the entire process seems to corresponds to a cortical activity rearrangement, that makes an activity shift from the frontal lobe to the parietal.

This could be the biological explanation why emptying the mind works. Don't letting the parietal lobe to gain activity would enable a shift to the temporal lobe, causing the regular pre-state of OBE, "temporal liability:" storm like local activity round the auditory cortex marked by strong buzzing noises. Note, noises are always present in hypnagog states when I direct my attention back to my body (I mean back to the primer sensory centers that make my body feel as fuzzy ball of mild vibrations and strong inner noises).

At the same time, looking into the darkness help to preserve consciousness by maintaining activity of the frontal lobe, the brain part that associated with our self, and needs the most sleep. Also, watching those light patterns behind our closed eyes apparently set in a positive feedback mechanism that helps more visuals to come. The same could be told about the effects of observing inner noises. The most simple realization of this "focus complex" is Birm's powerful triangle method (greetings Birm!) that even mirrors the temporal-frontal lobe configuration I've described above.

Good post. I've really enjoyed it.

Transitioning from a dream to an OBE, I have found that every time when I become aware in a dream, the dreamscape has an artificial feel and appearance to it. I also find that once I realize I am dreaming and decide to fly, or move somewhere else quickly, the dreamscape has a very distinct boundary, almost as if the dream is contained within a diorama or a box. Sometimes it is even difficult to exit this boundary, but upon exiting it becomes clear that I have departed something relatively artificial.
Has anyone else experienced this dream boundary?

Yes, it has been already discussed. I'm very interested in this topic, please describe the boundaries in as much detail as possible.

Wisp, I'm sure you know, these things are not so clear and cut as I've presented. Catching those normally unconscious or masked intermediate states are rare for me. Although the spontaneous polarity flip indeed presupposes some common mechanisms (perhaps even a structured or polarized RTZ field), the main thing is still that we need at least a rotated position to stabilize the pre-OB state because the position of the limbs are preserved, thus the risk of waking up is increased. Apparently, in some cases rotation happens spontaneously. This is why we noticed it as a rule. Also, due to the extremely malleable geometry of the dream room rotation seems to be a better solution for gaining stability than feeling ourselves in another point of the room, which, by the way, happens much more often in my case.

But these shifts may likely have another reason I can't disregard: I often change the place where I sleep. I've discovered a pattern here. The more frequently I change the position of my mattress, the more spontaneous OBE I have. Actually, this is a stand alone method that needs no mental efforts from my part. It seems we have a multistaged identification mechanisms that needs a considerable amount of time when we wake up (going back to C1 inside the cone) to re-orientate ourselves in space. Ancient people did believe that it is not wise to move the bodies of those who are asleep. It would be interesting to use a machine to rotate and shift the bed while we sleep and see what happen.

In the mean time, if I discover anything new about it I'll share it with you.

Yes please do that. I need more information. Also, anyone who sleep constantly at the same place yet have the experience of waking up in other parts of the dream room (which should be similar enough to make this distinction) please write me. Counter experiences are equally important.

I would like to contribute with a more simple, down to earth approach before you guys fly away with wings of your own design. Lollolol.

Being successful in imagining scenarios with spaces, vistas and distances means increased theta brain activity. Actually, internal spaces and delta waves are causing and multiplying each other. The hole represents the change between alpha and delta dominance. When theta sets in visualization gains depth and the ordinary sense of body abruptly dissolves.

F12 is the RTZ where the two cones (yes there are two of them) of micro- and macrocosm meet. Entering F12 from F10 is like going through a little hole at the meeting point of the cones' apexes. Everything becomes very dense and full of energy since unconscious information had to travel through this little hole. F12 is a very energetic state that's difficult to hold for extended periods of time.