Messages

quote:Originally posted by Kazbadan

Now, let´s stop fighting and start to proof OBE´s. Not in a scientific manner, of course, but at leats in a way that it may proof something to other newbies in this forum.

My idea (i posted something similar in the past) it´s to make an experiment in wich there will be 2 main persons (and maybe other groups of other 2 persons,  to give consistency to the experiment), one of the persons will be the target. She(he) will put some kind of signal or something elevant in her(his) room, something strange and visible. The other one will be the projector.

This one will project, someday in a combined week (since it´s difficult to project in a certain day, it´s easier to project in a certain week) and will try to see the signal or, at least,try to describe all the relevant details that she(he) can remember. And details are not things like "I sar a bed" or "I saw wooden windows", because such things are very common everywhere (unless the amount of such details are huge- and if they match with reality...).

The results of the experiments will then be posted here.

This is just one ida to show or test AP for newbies in the forum. What do you think? Give ideas...

If no one answers to this idea i will repeat the post...  

The only *problem* with your idea, Kazbadan, is that it only proves something to YOU and to the projector.  

Supposing someone took you up on your little test and succeeded....then you would come to this forum, telling everyone that it worked....and then we're right back in the same boat (eg. Now you have to prove that what you're saying is true and not made up).

What you propose has been done before.  I had someone successfully OBE to my room and decribe it in detail, proving to me and her that there was some sort of telepathy or extra-sensory perception available to those who project from their bodies.....but this little excursion cannot be proven to anyone else.  You have no idea of confirming that I'm telling the truth about this experiment, no matter how much I say otherwise.

See what I mean?

[Once again we get to observe the gullibility of Internet users... []I don't even have anti-virus software...because I'm not stupid enough to open an email with the subject "hello" and the size 100kb.And in the two years I have owned this computer I never got a single virus [|)]~Squeek]

quote:Originally posted by Squeek

Once again we get to observe the gullibility of Internet users... []

I don't even have anti-virus software...because I'm not stupid enough to open an email with the subject "hello" and the size 100kb.

And in the two years I have owned this computer I never got a single virus [|)]

~Squeek

I've never gotten a virus either, but man, that sure doesn't stop me from feeling the effects of these friggin' things.  Since I run a mailing list with almost 10,000 people on it, many of them open these virus mails.....and since they have ME on their address book, I get roughly 5-10 virus emails in my InBox every couple of minutes.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!  [!]

Hey Zora.....

Perhaps if you were a little more specific and told us WHAT you needed advice on, we could be more helpful.

As far as the 2012 thing goes, you may want to do a search on this forum for the phrase "2012."

You can also see many active topics regarding 2012 in here: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=23

By the way....please don't post the same exact topic twice.  I just deleted another one of your posts which was the exact same as this one.  For now, I'll just assume it was an accident on your part. []

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Yes, I agree with Nick.  As I tell everyone on this forum, "Nothing beats the first time!  You'll always remember it!"

I like how you LEARN as you go.  For example, you remembered in the moment that you needed to spin your "spirit feet" around the other way in order to separate.  

It's little things like this which we learn with every experience, and we build on them to become better at this skill.

The same thing will happen with your fear.  The next time you get OBE and you start to feel that "dweller on the threshold" feeling, you'll remember at that moment, "Hey, this is what happened before, and nothing bad resulted from it....so I'm going to continue to ignore this feeling."  

Before you know it, there will be no fear, and only joy & excitement!  Good job.

Um......did it ever occur to you to contact the people at witchcraftmagic.com to see what they had to say?  I just took a peek there and I see an email address to contact them at the bottom of the page.

quote:Originally posted by neo
i personally think god is not real as there is so much imperfection in our design and what goes on in the world today

I'm inclined to believe the opposite.  If you really look at the tiny details of everything around you, you'd see that there is an incredible amount of detail and design that goes into things.

When you think about every cell in your body is programmed to do a specific thing.....or the fact that this big, blob of atoms and molecules which make up your body is also working together to process the words that you're reading right now and convert them into ideas and communication.....I think all of this is just a really tiny example of how much design is out there.

I'm not saying this to back up the God vs No God arguement.  However, to simply say that there was no higher power which created us because of "imperfections" is just plain silly.

In fact, by quoting you ("i personally think god is not real as there is so much imperfection in our design"), you're saying that you think "God" is not real because of our design.  Design implies that we were created or formed....and if you don't subscribe to the theory that we were formed by a higher being, then I find it fascinating that you think we (as human beings) just came into existence out of pure chance.

Oh yeah!  Check this out:

http://myjokemail.com/pictures/Personal/Penguin.jpg

Could we please try to keep the US bashing to a minimum, please?  It's getting really old. [xx(]

Have you tried ordering it from OTHER websites, like BarnesAndNoble.com, or Amazon.com?

Here is what I usually do:

1) Remain Calm.  As hard as it is in the beginning, it's important that you don't get too excited.  Just reassure yourself mentally that you have complete trust and faith in the experience, and to "just go with it."

2) Once you find yourself separated, take 3 deep astral breaths.  As the air comes into your astral body, imagine yourself getting more lucid and strong within your environment.  Sometimes having an OBE feels like getting out of bed with a hangover...things are fuzzy, hard to control, etc.  You have to have a CLEAR HEAD to have a clear experience, and taking these astral breaths help.

3) In the beginning, don't try and fly anywhere!  This is just my own personal rule, which doesn't have to be followed.  The reason why I have this rule is because in the beginning, flying from point A to point B is a surefire way to lose control and end up back in bed.

I suggest that you just explore your own environent.  In the beginning of my astral journeys, when I would separate and find myself in my bedroom, I would walk out of my house and just explore around the area.  No need to try and fly to some foreign country, or the API.  There is plenty to do within the confines of your neighborhood.  You could stop and talk to astral entities walking around, or jump on top of your roof and see the surrounding neighborhood from a birds perspective, etc.

The more of these local experiences you have, the easier you begin to control the overall OBE experience in general....so in the future, you WILL be able to fly from point A to point B without losing control.

quote:Originally posted by Deva

Adding to the 3 mentioned in original post, you need to be good health.

Eh, not really.  Read Sylvan Muldoon's book and you'll see what I mean.

Here is why I don't bother with proof.

1) First of all, 80% of the time that you do have an OBE when you want it, you're so overwhelmed with the moment that you don't think about doing the same things as you did when you were awake, like reading a card or something like that.  It would be completely different if you could OBE at will, and not worry about "wasting" one of these experiences.  But for me, I may get out once a week, and I usually get caught up with other astral things.

2) Let's just say, for arguements sake, that you OBE to a card, and you misread it.....or the card isn't there like it is in the physical.  What would you conclude from this?  You might say, "Hmmmm...the experiment failed.  That means this isn't real."

We could go on a long tangent about the nature of reality, and how there is no such thing as an "un-real" experience.....but going along with the above scenario, would it really matter to you if it was proven to be fake?

Is it really that big a deal if you find out that all these OBE's are just in your head?  The answer is no...because you KNOW at the time of the experience that what you're experiencing is REAL!  No one could tell you otherwise, just as no one can convince you that you're really sleeping right now as you read this.  You just KNOW that you're awake and in front of a computer, just as you KNOW you're awake and having an OBE when it happens.

The point is that many people put a lot of burden on proving that these non-physical experiences are real by PHYSICAL standards.  Personally, even if you could never prove that it was real to physical standards, I could care less, because it's more than real to me.

In layman's terms, if many of you found out today that the favorite orange juice you drink is NOT made from real oranges, but in fact an orange substitute, would you really care?  Probably not.

Maya,

I see where you're coming from, and I certainly agree that this should not be a forum condoning personal attacks.

However, being the type of forum that we have here, it's...how should we say....very open-minded.  I guess you would have to be in order to remain here for any length of time.  Hehehe.

Anyway, with that said, I'm a very open-minded person, and I usually give some slack when it comes to people expressing their thoughts and opinions.  

Now, I can only speak for myself here, but this is how *I* moderate the messages I read.  I'm telling you this, if anything, to give you a better insight to how I operate.

1) What one person says may be viewed as an attack by one person, and criticism by another.  So how do I determine the difference?  I pretty much look at the writing style and the reasoning behind the commments.

As an example, Tony M. said some things which you took as a personal attack, and I can see how *you* would take them that way.  I, on the other hand, took it as a critic's opinion of what you have said.  

If he would have come in and said, "MAYA....you SUCK!  You're so full of *#*%&*%, it makes me laugh!".......If that would have happened, he would have been dealt with.  But he expressed his opinion about your claims in a more straightforward manner (IMO), and even ended his post with "These are just my thoughts. With all due respect of course."

Disagree if you must, but this is just how *I* look at things when determining a blatant personal attack and aan opinion on another persons character or beliefs.

2) Just for the record, you may not *see* us moderators doing anything, but we have ways of privately contacting people who are "in the wrong" and chastising them as we see fit.  So just because you may not see any action taking place, that's not to say that there isn't wheels spinning in the background.

Anyway, I'm saying this for no other reason than to let you know that I'm not here to gag people for expressing their beliefs as it pertains to the forum....but I do expect those who make certain factual statements to either back them up, or at least tell me why THEY believe them as fact.

As an example, you believe in the Zetas and Pleiadians, while I may not.  I may ask you WHY you believe in their existence, and whether or not I choose to believe your explanation, I can respect you for stating the reasoning behind your beliefs.

However, when others say something (as 1Zenryoku's account of roughing it in the woods, and then he asks me to direct any questions at him), I would expect him to answer them without getting upset or defensive.  If he does get upset, I won't take any action, but it does reveal to me a little bit more about his character.

Sorry for the ramble.  If you have any further questions or concerns for me, let me know. []

quote:Originally posted by 1Zenryoku

Also can we get back to the subject at hand all I have heard is bad comments if you don't like the thread stay the ---- out got it!!!! did I ask for your opinion or sarcasim.

I don't get it.  The last thing you wrote after telling us about your spiritual retreat into the woods was, and I quote:

quote:Thats it any more questions just ask.

....and....

quote:Did not feel like writting every thing so ask away

So then I asked a few questions, which you proceeded to answer, but not without throwing a childish tantrum.  If you can't handle a little criticism, then perhaps you should retreat back into the woods, eat a few more squirrels, and steal more possessions that other people paid for.  []

What do you consider a "dream" to be?  Something that is completely made up by your mind, something that isn't really "real?"

To me, the difference between a thought creation and a real contact with a spirit in our dreams is the "feeling" we get after the interaction.  You just KNOW that there was some sort of contact with the person when it happens, and to me, it sounds like you had this same "knowing" feeling.

Just as one can meet deceased loved ones when having a conscious out of body experience, the dream environment is equally conducive to meeting these spirits.  The only difference is that we don't have as much awareness of the event in a dream as we do in an OBE.

Hope that helps.....I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.  It's never easy for those of us left behind to grieve for their death....but if you were reassure yourself of one thing, it's the fact that your friend is no doubt having a ball right now in the afterlife.

And it sounds like he was trying to tell you that too.  []

I fear no man who rides downwind behind the asses of 12 giant, antlered rats.

If that's the case, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to say, "Hey, cover your eyes, dude!"

Just buy a bandana, or one of these eye-covering thingies that people wear at night.

If it's THAT dark where you can't even tell if your eyes are open or closed, then if you're tired, you WILL go to sleep.  Unless you're focusing too much on your eyes.  But if you focus too much on anything, even the fact of TRYING to go to sleep, then it will keep you up.

Quit worrying about it.

Try as I might, I can't make the slightest bit of sense of whatever the hell you said. []

Thanks for the description.  I will just ask the first things that popped in my head as I read your account:

1) You said the squirrel was eating the leftover snake from the night before.  I didn't think squirrels ate meat.  At least, not when they have a plethora of nuts and other assorted munchies in the woods.  Strange.

2) You mentioned on day 7 that you got the beans....but then on day 10, you say that you found a problem that you couldn't open the beans.  Wouldn't you have realized this 5 minutes after you had them that you didn't have a can opener?  And wouldn't the first thing you thought of would be to use something sharp, like your knife?  How could you forget that you had it in the hole when it was only one of three things you took with you in the forest? Why did it take 3 days to come to these conclusions?

3) Did you feel guilty at all for stealing someone else's food and supplies?  After all, you say that the reason you went into the wilderness was to achieve enlightenment.  Is stealing a characteristic of enlightened people?

4) I'm sure this is just a communication problem, but you say that you dug a hole to sleep in, but then you elevated it two feet off the ground to keep snakes and other nasties out.  How do you elevate a hole?  Wouldn't that be putting dirt back IN the same place that you took it out of?

5) How difficult was it to kill that squirrel.  I've never been to VA, but every squirrel I've ever seen has been real perceptive to approaching people/animals.  They have an acute sense of hearing, which is why they're quick to run away when people approach. How did you manage to kill it with a rock?

I think that's all my questions.  Looking forward to your response.

I like him too.  Unfortunately, they are cancelling his show:

http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/44536.htm

Good question.  You have to use your discretion when it comes to discussing these things.

Talking about OBE's is much like talking about politics or religion.  You don't just talk about them to anyone....usually because it results in an arguement, hurt feelings, or an otherwise negative reaction.

Instead, I usually wait and only speak about them if A) someone brings them up, or B) I feel someone is going to be receptive to their validity.

I learned this the hard way.  Like most noobs, before ever having an OBE, I remember saying, "Gosh, I can't WAIT until I can go out of my body!  Why would you ever hide that amazing skill?  I'm going to tell EVERYONE about it!!!"

After my first 1 or 2, I still felt the same.  However, I made the mistake of telling my parents (who I lived with at the time), and they were very unreceptive.  Being born again Christian, it was highly frowned upon to "dabble" in spiritual things like this, because they consider it to be the work of the devil.

The way they see things, if I were to walk on water or heal the sick, if I didn't do it in the name of Jesus, then it would be the work of Satan...regardless that I'm doing the SAME THING that Jesus did.

So from their reaction, I had to take a few steps back and watch who I talked to about these things.  I have since mentioned my OBE's to my best friend, and his reaction is much like the common reaction you'll see out there, "Really?  Well, I believe it's all just a realistic dream, but hey, that's cool."

Now I just talk about them with you guys here.  Even my wife doesn't know I can do this.  She just knows I am "interested" in OBE's.

quote:Originally posted by sreenathc
is the Astral plane one and the same for every being? ie, when (and if) I project into the AP, will I be able to meet others who are projecting into the AP at the same time?

Yes, it is one in the same.  Although if you and I were both projecting at the same time, and in the same place, while we may see each other, we may percieve things differently.

For example, being a newbie, you may see "a big red blob" next to a sidewalk, and I may see a new, red corvette parked along the street.

Another example would be you seeing something which you identify as being a bicycle, and I identify it as a motorcycle.

In both cases, it's simply a matter of PERCEPTION.  We may be in the same astral location, but since a lot of the astral is influenced by thoughts and emotions, we could potentially be looking at the same thing but interpret it differently.

quote: If, not is AP just a individual's lucid dream that is invented, controlled and experienced by just that person please?

No, it is possible to experience it alongside someone else.

quote:Originally posted by acidmax120

quote:Originally posted by Nay

Hey maaaaaaaan...no soliciting or is that spamming?  eh, who cares they both suck. [}:)]

Nay

Im working on a free version to assist those who bother me for it.

If they both suck then why have I gotten and OBE 9/10 times with it, after around 15 minutes?

When she says "they both suck," I believe she is talking about soliciting and spamming.  Not your two sound files.

Great post Nay!  But I have a question.  "Who let the dogs out? Who...who..who..who..who...WHo let the dogs out..."

Sorry...bad joke.

But seriously, do you think there is a possibility that the man who looked like your husband WAS in fact a part of your husbands personality?  I mean, just because his physical body wasn't there with you, do you think this part of him was?

I ask because many of us (myself included) have an OBE, only to enounter a friend or relative that isn't physically there.  I have always attributed this to another non-physical aspect of their personality, but you made me think about this one. Perhaps it's another entity that our mind attributes to someone we know.  This also makes sense.

I suppose the only way we will know if the people we see are really the ones they represent is to ask them specific questions and base our opinion on their reactions.

Anyway, I hope I will be awake enough to have an OBE soon...wouldn't that be cool if I went to see you and got to play with your dogs too!

Do you know what day the earthquake was?  For some reason, my ears began ringing last Wednesday or Thursday afternoon (Pacific Standard Time).  It came out of nowhere.  I was just here working at my desk, when I lost a lot of hearing due to this loud ringing.  It happens every once in a while, but I never figured out why.  I simply wrote it off as something weird that I experience!