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Cool, thanks James!

Hm... I think maybe I have been underestimating myself... :mrgreen:

The thing is, there really are no Christian holidays--only Christian interpretations of pre-Christian holidays!    Some Christians understand this, but so many American Christians don't know the first thing about Christian history, or history in general (I'm still appalled by how many think Catholicism is a separate religion from Christianity, but that's its own story).

Personally, I think Halloween has left behind its roots.  Not completely, but I can't help but think it's become pretty vulgar when I walk down the Halloween aisle and see really tacky decorations and very gory images.  
But to each their own... I prefer the dignity and joyfulness of All Souls/All Saints, Dia de los Muertos, and Samhain... the cleaned, decorated graves, the festive altars, the prayers and gifts, the candles.

And, I was born on All Saints!  When I was in Catholic school, I always got the day off! :mrgreen:

[real]

Interesting post, Leyla.

I'm not familiar with the "Lost Books," but even the Book of Genesis suggests that all the intellect and self-consciousness, contained in that magical apple, was explicitly forbidden.  In effect, nearly all human knowledge as we know it could be considered forbidden knowledge.  That knowledge and self-consciousness fundamentally changed humanity... we became a self-made, and hence flawed species.  It was the ultimate affront to the Creator, so naturally, He condemned both His human creatures and the rebellious angel who had led them astray.  

In Judaic folklore, the real first woman, Lilith, who was expelled from Eden because she refused to be passive and submissive to Adam, went out and interbred with angelic beings, and gave rise to a race of demons.  In both cases, it's clear that humans + angels = demonism, or at least a tendency to it.  

Of course, it's important to distinguish these "angels" from the Heavenly Host of messengers, warriors, worshippers, guardians, etc.  My guess would be that it was spirits of this latter group that came and admonished you against praying for the imprisoned angels/demons.

It's not a uniquely Judeo-Christian myth... for example, Prometheus was very harshly punished for empowering humanity with the gift of fire.  There are similar stories from around the world, but they escape me at the moment... I need to brush up on my mythology.

It's difficult not to feel at least the tiniest bit of sympathy for such figures as Satan and Prometheus; humans wouldn't be what we are today without them... and we naturally assume that what we are today is a good thing.  Heaven clearly disagrees, though.  If the way we are were OK, then we wouldn't need redemption, would we?

Mythology aside, though, no I don't regard astral projection as a forbidden, demonic, or particularly extraordinary thing.  If anything, I think it brings us more in touch with our original, pre-Fall nature.  Back to the days when humans saw and sought out the face of God and were unafraid of the universe.  Maybe it's just one more path to redemption... the secret, inward path to the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus speaks of.

Sorry for rambling on!  :blahblah:  

I've had a few conversations that I've remembered.  Below are some posts I've made here that contain some conversations... they're mostly not word-for-word, just paraphrases, though I tried to reproduce at least part of the actual conversations.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=167602&highlight=#167602  --  This is my first post.  In retrospect, I think the lady I met might have been a spirit guide giving me a demonstration of phasing.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=167682&highlight=#167682  --  In this one, I visit and talk with my deceased fiance shortly after his death.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20288  --  2nd post down.  My meeting with my spirit guide and spirit son, Liam.

I'm not sure if this is the sort of thing you're looking for, but I hope it helps!  

Yeah, you better watch out! :drive:

I really haven't read too much of Moen's work, I just remembered that one part.  I didn't even know what phasing was until I found this forum.  My experiences have been spontaneous, but I've been practicing at inducing them using Frank's instructions.

In all but one of my phasing adventures, I have had a body and it felt not very different from my physical body.

I was reading the beginning of one of Moen's books a while back (don't remember which one), where he was talking about the day the Oklahoma City bomb occurred.  And that evening, he was in some restaurant getting supper, and at the same time, he was helping retrieve victims!  He said that most of his attention was on his retrieval work, but that at the same time, he apparently managed to have a beer, order food, eat, etc., in the middle of a crowded restaurant!

That's pretty amazing, but really, it's not so different from when you get in your car and start off somewhere, and the next thing you know, you're at your destination!  That happens to me all the time, and for the life of me, I don't remember anything about the drive!  I don't remember which roads I took, I don't remember if there was traffic or not.  It's sort of scary!  It goes to show that either I'm extremely lucky and have a whole army of guardian angels... or that the mind is very amazing when it come to multi-tasking!

What does 26/8 mean?

Just curious, I've never had a numerology reading done before!

:diarrhea:

:alcool:

I love 'em!!!  :hearts:

Why do you guys waste your time with astrological physics and not doing anything more productive like some astral projection!, what is it going to prove and what do you have to prove by going through astral theories instead of having faith in it and just doing it. How in the world could your soul get out of your body in the sense of it being matter and space as your physical body moves to point a to b,its beyond my comprehension! Your soul is intellect and will, you guys need to have energy and stop this projection that tires you down! that's not going to get you anywhere unless you like wasting energy.Is their any methods on projecting w/ less energy to save some?
I would like some feed back
Thanks! Very Happy

What the--    

OK, I read this thread just 2 minutes ago, and this original question by Neutrino was completely different--and did indeed sound like a flame asserting that astral projection was a huge waste of time and why don't all of us get a life!

Just so that no one is confused by the seemingly unrelated replies.

Well, assuming that Neutrino really did intend to ask this latest version of the question (and not just try to make fools of us )...  Um, I'm still not exactly sure what the question is!  "Astrological physics"?  If I'm wasting my time on that, then I must not realize it, because I don't even know what it is.

But seriously, it sounds like the question is why we make efforts to study, understand, and theorize about astral projection---instead of just doing it.  I think that anyone who can just do it is very fortunate.  But for most of us, it takes a lot of effort.  In the course of life, our minds get so programmed against it, our attention so ensnared by the physical, the rational, the artificial.  

Sure, we can just "go with it" for the fun and enjoyment of it.  But it's only natural that we begin to consider it from a more objective perspective.  The hows and whys arise pretty naturally to inquisitive minds.  And it opens up entire new avenues and understanding not only about ourselves, but the entire universe.  Personally, I might not be so intrigued and inspired by this whole enterprise if it weren't for the profound work of people like Robert Monroe, and so many of the posters on these forums.  I love the fact that astral projection is evolving from something mystical and spiritual to something intellectual and scientific.  It makes it a whole lot more appealing to me.  The more we learn about it, the less we have to "have faith" in it, so to speak.  And the more people will come to understand that it's not some kind of occult hocus pocus, but rather a natural ability.

As for the energy concerns... I find that when I practice my phasing, it helps me to relax and sort of "let go" of energy in a way, at least the energy that I invest in the physical world every day.  And when that happens, my mind just sort of naturally drifts away.  I might not always experience a full, conscious projection, but it is a very marked shift in consciousness.  But back in the day, when I tried doing the Out-of-Body stuff, I did find that extremely tiring and frustrating and a waste of time.  But for some people, it's the best way.  There isn't just one way to experience astral projection.  You may just have to find the way that works best for you.  OBE and phasing are the two basic kinds.  You can find tons of information on both here at these forums!

Sorry if I'm not very coherent tonight... but I hope that helps some.  Feel free to ask questions--people here are great about trying to answer them! :mrgreen:

 Maybe it's a regional thing, but I've always heard "silver hair."  I guess because it does sound more pleasant than grey!

It's not so bad---people tend to think that I've had a really expensive frosting job done on my hair!  I get all kinds of compliments! :mrgreen:

Well, I'm looking for the post about Monroe's brush with death.  Below is a post that sort of refers to it (starting at the middle of the 3rd post):

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19658

I'll be 29 on Nov. 1!  

I feel much older, though.  And have the silver hairs to prove it.

Oh dear,  I am worried about Frank...  I've been so inspired and encouraged by his posts!  I love the way he writes, and do hope to be able to read his book one day soon!  And he seems like such a kind, caring person!

Hm... I keep remembering what he wrote one time, about how Robert Monroe almost killed himself in the course of his studies.  That's been haunting me.    Especially since Frank has ventured even farther than Monroe.  It must cause one stress, in one way or another, and I can attest that stress can make one much more susceptible to physical illness.

Doesn't Frank have a wife/s.o.?  It seems like he mentioned once that she was in the UK.  If so, maybe he went back there?  I don't know, maybe I'm not remembering correctly.  

Well, I'm praying, wishing, hoping, etc. for him, and that all of us may receive some peace of mind soon!

I think it could work... for me at least, afterimages and hypnogogic images look a lot alike.  If nothing else, "watching" the afterimages could help you trance out.  I'll try your method.

Sometimes, I can jump-start imagery by squeezing my eyes really tight, or rubbing them with my hands... it creates these pretty bursts of colors and/or patterns.

I don't know if this type of thing is really good for one's eyes though...

[this post]

Hi,

See this post for a conversion list.  

It's as if the astral or obe body ( I was about to write phasing body there!) has vision and sense all around in a sphere, and is getting input from all directions at once, and you can choose what input/angle to focus on.!

I have read about what you're describing... Where it's like you can see in 360 degrees.  Sounds cool. I imagine people who phase can do the same thing, though I've not experienced it.  

People who phase have "astral bodies" too, or at least I do.  I can see it and feel it around me. Except for that one crazy experience where I was just a disembodied observer... now that was really bizarre!  I felt so naked!  I still don't really know what that was all about...

From what I've read, I think that any time you project, your mind may create an astral body for you, and that you can change it or get rid of it at will.  I don't think that an astral body is really necessary but I think that having a body is very deeply ingrained in us.  We get in the habit of associating our selves with our bodies, we get used to needing a body in order to interact with our environment... but in the astral world, a body is not important.

I think I'll prefer having a body for the time being.

[Regarding MABA]

Billion Names of God and all:

Good, I'm glad I finally got at what you wanted to know.  I think we just kept misunderstanding each other.  

Regarding MABA, I don't know about documentation, but what I do to start is lie still on my back.  This is not my usual sleeping posture but I still get as comfortable as possible... I usually have to roll up my pillow beneath my neck in order to ease tension there.  I will often have to massage my face, head, and neck, and rub my eyes to work out as much tension there as I can.  

Even if I'm not perfectly "relaxed," I just breathe deeply, close my eyes, and "watch" the backs of my eyelids.  Sometimes I'll begin seeing hypnogogic imagery within minutes, and once that happens, I start "losing contact" with my body and "retreat" into my head.  

However, there are sometimes problems, the most common of which is disengaging the physical eyes so that they don't open or try to focus on the images or move around.  When that happens, I do a little exercise described here (start wtih the second paragraph).

After I've been in MABA for a little while, I will usually fall into what I suppose is the state of expanded awareness.  I'll try to explain what that is like for me.  For one thing, it is a very noticable change.  You feel it "wash over you."  I say that because to me it usually feels like a wave, and my mind does this undulating sort of "motion."  It's very distinct, but really quite pleasant!  

Once the "wave" goes by, I become more aware than before that I'm totally in my mind, and can't sense my body at all.  It feels like I am in a much "wider" space.  It's like driving out of a forest and finding yourself on a mountain top, with nothing but huge sky around you.    It really does almost make you say, "WOW, I've entered a state of expanded awareness"!  I guess that's where the label came from.  But I agree that it's not much help to just read that description.

At this point, the rather amorphous hypnogogic imagery is replaced by much more distinct forms.  Usually fuzzy, but I can still make out geometric shapes, human shapes, building shapes, tree shapes, etc.  And every so often, I'll catch quick snatches of very sharp, vivid images.  This phenomenon, called "clicks" by another user, is discussed a bit here.

Getting to the "clicks" is about as far as I've gotten so far.  I've been practicing for about 2 months at consciously initiating phasing.  And sometimes I get pretty far, and sometimes I don't.  Within maybe the last couple of weeks, I've gotten to where I can "hold on" to the clicks for longer.  I think that is the key to phasing.  Eventually, I will be able to "phase into" or immerse myself in whatever I'm seeing, hearing, feeling.

Well, I hope that helps some.  Again, these are just my experiences, things may go differently for others, and others may have a harder or easier time of it.  But I think I mentioned that I had absolutely no luck with more "traditional" OBE projection.  And I tried for years!  Just don't get discouraged.  I believe that we will each find our own way, our own "means of transportation" to get to the astral.

Good luck y'all!  

PS.  If you'd like to read about some "spontaneous" projection experiences I've had, I posted a little list here, for another user.

["The Truth About UFOs"]

I don't know much about UFOs, but I'm pretty good at finding good information.


"The Truth About UFOs"--apparently a bibliography of Web resources put together by a library school student.

U.S. Government resources about UFOs--put together by University of Louisville Libraries (notice a trend?).

Some historical UFO accounts--posted by a librarian at Vincennes University (Indiana).

"Life in the Cosmos" a presentation by a physics professor at California State University San Bernardino about UFOs and alien life.


Well, I hope those help!  Is there any particular kind of UFO information you're looking for?

I'm definitely not a physicist, but I really like the discussions about time and it's true nature (or lack thereof).  Even in the physical world, it is far from stable... we all have some days that go quickly, and other days that last forever.  Clearly, it has everything to do with perception.

Still, I don't understand when people say it isn't real, or it doesn't matter, because regardless of what we think of it, the minutes, hours, days, weeks, and years keep coming and going.  I know that in the larger universe out there, things are very different, and I look forward to experiencing it more for myself.  But here and now, how can we not accept it as a real and meaningful thing?

[My first post, discussing some early experiences, including what seems to have been a spirit guide giving me a demonstration of phasing!My best and most favorite experience to date--visiting my fiance in Heaven!A fairly recent experience, though probably more a lucid dream than a projection--I'm still not too sure where the one ends and the other begins.Another recent one, very different and rather disturbing.This one was started by another user, but I have experienced this a lot in my practicing--"clicks".Another one started by another user, in which we discuss the common problem of not being able to disengage the physical eyes.]

I've been experiencing phases only since the end of April, nearly 4 months now.  I've been practicing since the end of June, I guess, so about 2 months.  So, I'm really new, you see!

Here are some of my experiences.  Please feel free to comment!

My first post, discussing some early experiences, including what seems to have been a spirit guide giving me a demonstration of phasing!

My best and most favorite experience to date--visiting my fiance in Heaven!

A fairly recent experience, though probably more a lucid dream than a projection--I'm still not too sure where the one ends and the other begins.

Another recent one, very different and rather disturbing.

This one was started by another user, but I have experienced this a lot in my practicing--"clicks".

Another one started by another user, in which we discuss the common problem of not being able to disengage the physical eyes.


I hope those prove to be at least somewhat useful!

I have only very recently discovered the idea of phasing which describes completely what I do and feel when experience these dramatic results.  Now I am hungry.  I feel I've missed something that's been under my nose all the time.

This is how I felt when I found this site!  I knew about OBE, and practiced it for a long time, with no luck.  And then I started having these experiences, which I vaguely associated with astral projection, except that they didn't really fit the description of OBE.  I started assuming that I was just dreaming or daydreaming, and that my experiences weren't "real" although they felt so much more real than any kind of dream.  I was ever so relieved and excited when I happened by here and learned about phasing!

It is a little overwhelming to read all of this stuff, but it's sooo exciting!  It's truly a treasure trove!

Good luck!  I hope we get to share some awesome phasing experiences soon!  I'm still very new, and still trying to learn to consciously initiate my phasing.  I'm getting to where I'm experiencing some interesting sensations, some more vivid and concrete than others.  Slowly I'm learning to "tune in" more clearly and for longer periods.  Mostly, though, my phasing experiences just happen on their own.  But that's encouraging too!

Yes, it was a Galleria-type place--shopping mall surrounded by office buildings and a big fancy hotel.  But the surrounding setting wasn't one I was familiar with.  

I do write about my dreams a lot in various journals... I'm always hoping to gain further insights by means of them.  I have a bit of  background in psychoanalysis, so I'm always paying attention to my dreams as much as I can.  

Thanks for your suggestions!

[A]

Ooh. Maybe someday instead of a public library, you'll be in a rare book store and it'll be like the 9th Gate or something. It seems like researchers into old rare books always have exciting things happen to them. Research is really cool, though. Google is great and all, but it's not like being in some remote, dark corner of a library pulling dusty old volumes out of a top shelf ...

Happily, I now work at a very fine university library, and I catalog mostly 19th century serials (almanacs, journals, magazines, catalogs, conference proceedings, etc.).  They are very interesting!  I love looking at the almanacs and magazines.  I've also cataloged old documents from various Masonic orders--just mundane type stuff, but still interesting.  You would love the closed stacks in our special collections library--very dark, crowded, and labyrinthine!  I got to go back there to look for something one day, and felt like I was a treasure hunter or something.  Actually, I thought I was never going to make it back out!  

I think and feel what ever gets that person to the other side - phasing, the mechanics of the astral projection Go For It!

I think that's right!  I think the important thing is to find the way that works best for you and be thankful!  I was so discouraged by OBE, but now that I've found phasing, I'm just glad that I've found A way to project!  I am sure that I might be missing out on special experiences that can be had with OBE, but it's just in the same way that there are things you miss out on when you travel by plane as opposed to car, and vice versa.  The important thing is that you leave one place and end up somewhere else, and get to enjoy whichever transportation you can avail yourself of.

Surfer8, thanks for your suggestions! Well, I've thought that either:

A) spirits are trying to communicate with me, since I've heard that they often communicate or make their presence known by interfering with electricity

B) my own spirit is interfering with electricity, since I've been working on developing it, and maybe it's interacting more with the environment.

I tend to lean more toward A, because it's not a constant thing, and doesn't seem to be tied with my own thoughts, feelings, etc.  I've heard of people making things like this happen, but usually when they're angry, upset, stressed out, etc.  

I'll try talking back next time something happens. Maybe whoever/whatever it is just wants to be acknowledged.

I'm not sure if this is really astral projection-related or not.  It's just something strange I've noticed in the last few weeks.  Wherever I am, whether at home or work, electric lights are always going on the fritz!  

At home, I have one floor lamp I always use.  It has three lights on it.  At any one time, there is never more than one of them working, because the other two always go out!  In some cases, they just flicker out, but sometimes, they go out with a bang!  One night, I had all 3 of them working, and two of the lightbulbs broke!  But then I tried the surviving lightbulb in the other sockets and it was OK.

This week, both of the fluorescent lights above my desk have gone out.  Monday, one of them sort of pulsed every so often all day (not really flickered, just sort of faintly changed in its intensity), went out, came back on for a couple of minutes, then went out for good.

Then this morning, when I came in, the other one was out.  My coworker told me that just before I came in, the light gave a bright flash and some sparks, and a loud POP.  As if that's not weird enough, I was walking across the office, and as I passed under a few lights, they flickered!  It was enough to startle the surrounding coworkers.  I swear, they were "following" me!

I'm borrowing a desk lamp from a co-worker---if IT goes out... I'm going to be totally freaked out!!!

So... have any of you experienced anything similar?  Is there some possible explanation?  Is it a coincidence?  What is going on?!  Thanks!