Messages

Thanks for the tip.

You are welcome. I think http://www.theveggietable.com/ is probably better if you just want recipes and info on becoming a vegetarian. Though both are free so checking them both out could not hurt.

I giveth and I taketh away. But maybe I giveth again.

I smited you and it took 1 away.    So I guess a high number means alots of applause
Must play with the text options.
Hmmm shadow doesn't seem to do anything.

When I first got into vegetarianism I ordered the free vegetarian starter kit that PETA gives away. I just wanted to see what they had to say but mostly I wanted the recipes. They also send a DVD. After reading what the meat factories do to the animals I decided I did not want to watch the DVD. It is still unopened. But reading awhole book on it? That must be uplifting.

I could not raise animals without getting attached to them, and then turn around and kill them.

The co-worker that worked in the slaughter house, he said that the guy that did the killing of the hogs would never have to worry about serving on jury duty. They would not allow him to do so! That has to say something.

There is no harm in going to see how things are. Though I would not expect constructive discussions. Most churches seem to only want to reenforce their current beliefs and are not looking for any actual discussions. That is probably why here there is quite literally a church on every corner. They figure if you don't like what they have to say you can go some where else.

What kind of church are you looking for? Here I think we have most religions represented in some form of a building.

As long as you have positive karma I think you are doing good.

One thing that is constant is change.

The new look for the forums is interesting. I think I like it. The karma rating is cool.

Thank you Alaskans. I am not the only one. 

To be completely honest with myself though, I do realize that in the process to get the fruits and vegetables from the farm to my home that the plants are most likely hurt. So some pain comes into play reguardless of what we eat. But this year I have started growing a few vegetables so that I can control how I get atleast some of my food and ensure that they are treated "humanely".

As for karma and what you eat, it really does not matter what you are told. It does not mean much if you are not sure or just believe or think something. It only matters if you know. Don't take what I or Adrian or Nay or anyone else may say. Instead meditate on the subject and explore the answer for yourself. Then you will know what is right for you.

Because you can put gas on credit?

Oh yes, and where would we be without that?

Hi

Right now, I really like the one called "Ultimate Stretch"

Cool, thanks for sharing. I will try to check it out.

If I understand you correctly, then I suggest that you try doing some yoga. It will increase your concentration, awareness, and energy.

Greatoutdoors,

I do agree with you that what we need most is sustainability. We need to strive for healthy food and healthy food production. That in itself would lead to better karma. I see more and more organic and natural foods on the shelves, so obviously the demand is there and more people must becoming more aware. So hopefully we are starting on the path. As the supply increases and the production practices become more efficient, then prices will come down as well.

I think one very important step in this direction is for people to start growing some of their own food again. This would exclude meat for a lot of people, but even those that live in apartments can grow a few vegetable plants.

Actually, that raises a question for me -- what happens if you are cruel lthrough ignorance and not by intent?

That is a complicated question, especially for being so vague. I do think you reap what you sow. If you sow cruelty you will become more cruel. But how can you be cruel and not really know it? Maybe that is the purpose of this "law". As you reap more and more of whatever it is you sow, you become more aware of it. Karma is based on intent, but life is rarely black and white.

Concentrating more on your senses will atleast make you more aware of them. Try being aware throughout the day.

Because some people are spoiled and out of touch with reality?

I think everyone should eat according to their metabolic type. Some dont need much proteins while others do.

I was vegeterian for one year. Stopped few months ago. I never thought i would get back to eating meat but i did. I wasnt really careful about my diet. I ate a lot of fruit. At first i ate avocadoes but after 10 of them i now get sick just by thinking on them.  Before i was 63 kg (174cm height) and went down to 55 kg very fast, while eating only apples during the day. After a week i was spending three hours in toilet so is started eating cooked food again.
I went to 52 kg for a while due to sickness. I became a bit scared at that time but i was still determined to continue. I started eating more various food. When my gums receeded a bit i started to doubt in this my diet. Now i eat more eggs and meat as weel and i gained weight back. Almost.

And something more on topic.

http://mercola.com/2000/apr/2/vegetarian_myths.htm

Any diet must have variety and everyone should do research to make sure they are getting what they need, especially when you change your diet.

Just looking at the beginning of the article that is just silly. I know plenty of vegetarians who have had good pregnancies and healthy babies and plenty of meat eaters who have miscarried. I think it is terrible for the doctor to blame her miscarriage on her not eating animal products. I know two doctors that would disagree and say that a vegetarian diet is much better for you.

Alaskans>, you don't have to stop posting. We are just discussing and that is my goal, not "winning". You are probably right that things are getting circular on that subject so a change.

To be completely honest if my only option was to kill an animal to survive I probably would. But for me right now, as well as I am sure most (though maybe not all) people on here we don't have to worry about surviving off the land. We have grocery stores, farmers markets, restaurants, and many sources to get food. When I go to the store to buy food I know that unless the meat says otherwise (though this is rare here) that the animal was most likely kept in a cage or stall its entire life where it was most likely fed food it would not normally eat and given drugs and chemicals to "enhance" it so it will provide more meat and to keep it alive long enough to do so. Since it is in an unnatural environment infection and disease is common, so more drugs are needed to keep it alive. These drugs and chemicals are then passed on to the customer at the grocery store in the meat they buy. The animals well being is ignored in these meat factories. I work with a guy who use to work in a slaughter house. He did not do any killing, but he saw enough of what went on and it was not a pleasant experience as the animals throats were slit and then carved up before they were even dead. I cannot in good conscious support an industry that makes animals suffer their entire life. Buy buying the meat I am saying that this is ok, and I do not think it is. I can get everything I need from non-animal sources so I why should I contribute to the suffering of animals when I don't have to. That is the reality I live in. Yours may or may not be different, but as one who strives to be spiritually aware I cannot ignore where my food comes from.

Hypernicus, that looks like an interesting article. I have only scanned over it but I intent to read it all soon. From what I gather it implies that plants are conscious, which I whole heartedly agree. Plants are very important to me spiritually. I love and respect all plants. The thing about a vegetarian diet is that I am not killing plants to eat. I am eating the fruit which the plant has produced to be dropped in order to spread its seeds. If I did not eat the fruit from the plant then the fruit would either drop and rot or be eaten by bugs or animals. The fruits' sole purpose is to be removed.

I did a search and found plenty of sites on the family and condition, but no real pictures.

As for the indigo children question, where did you do this test? Did they not provide any information? I have heard the word tossed around plenty of times but I never really cared to look into it.

Why cut out fish? Nothing can substitute it? Fish is some of the healthiest and most needed food for human body in the world.

Fish is the healthiest meat one can eat. Flax seeds contain omega 3 fatty acid like that in fish so if you cut out fish be sure to add this to your diet.

Adrian,
It is well that you choose to be vegan, but you could not sustain it without nutritional supplements or, as Alaskans said, in a truly natural environment. Alaskans is also correct about omnivore vs. vegetarian. Humans were most certainly designed to be omnivorous – that includes meat.

The only supplement that is needed in a diet without meat is vitamin B12, and that could be debated. B12 is produced by bacteria so it really has nothing to do with meat. It can be all around us. The only reason that meat is considered the only source of B12 is because it is the only consist source in general. It can be all over fruits and vegetables, or it may not. It can be in the air, water, and soil. If we did not wash our fruit and veggies so rigorously then we would most likely get plenty. But due to the chemicals we use on our plants it is needed. So a supplement is best taken to play it safe.

I agree whole-heartedly on disliking the "food factory" environment we presently live in. But that is not limited to meat factories. I "guestimate" probably 95% of our vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains, etc. are produced in the same manner. That is what is going to bite us in the butt in the long run – as it is already doing health-wise.

It takes a lot less resources to produce fruits and vegetables than it does for meat, even organics. Organic fruit and vegetables are becoming a lot more available and the prices are dropping (atleast in some areas which has been debated else where    ) What are the similarities?

You say vegans eat a natural human diet. That is only partially true. Vegans eat a highly artificial diet that would be unsustainable in nature.

How is a vegan diet artificial? As for it being unsustainable in nature, I have not thought it through but for the most part it is very sustainable.

Most people could eat a lot less meat than they do with no harm done.

Even the US government will admit to that, so that is saying a lot.   But I think we can all agree on that.

I know there is more than grass to eat, but think about it. What would you eat in the middle of winter if there were no grocery stores or restaurants? Or better yet, in early spring when any stored food was almost certainly in short supply? And for that matter, how would you store a winter's worth of food?

First, vegetables don't all just grow during the warm to hot summer months. Some like cooler weather. There are those that are ready to eat in the Spring, Summer, and Fall. The only time growing or finding vegetables to eat would be a problem would be in the dead of winter, though that would depend on your location. Some places can grow crops all year round.

Here one would only need to store a food supply for a few months, and they use to do it but it has been largely forgotten now in this day and age. Today we have refrigeration to keep anything we grow for some time. Though without it most people had root cellars which were similar and would keep vegetables for awhile as well. Then you can can your vegetables. I remember my grandparents doing it all the time. That would keep things over the winter.

If you can give me examples of cultures that don't eat meat in their normal diet I would appreciate it. I have done some research in nutrition and am always interested in adding to that knowledge.

Indians (those from india) have had a vegetarian diet for some time, for religious reasons.

Nice post greatoutdoors.  This is one of those subjects that always seems to turn into a "I'm better than you" war....either physically, mentally or spiritually.  Gets very old for me to see it.  Now I'm just indifferent to the whole subject.  

:seesaw:

On my part I don't think anyone is better than anyone else so I certainly hope that I do not come off as such. I could honestly careless what anyone eats. I respect everyone who has posted even if we disagree.

To be honest, a few years ago when this was discussed before I disagreed with Adrian. But just recently I had a moment of "enlightenment" that made me change my mind.

Can one just stop eating meat? Will the body do something when it hasn't had meat for a while?

One can just stop eating meat, though depending on your current diet it might be better to gradually come off of it by stop eating beef, then pork, chicken, and finally fish.

What is there in meat that humans need and what food can substitute it? Protein was mentioned, and is that all?

Humans can get all the protein we need from plant sources.

As far as I know the only thing that cannot be found in fruits and vegetables is vitamin B12, though there are vegan sources of this. But I need to do more research on this, and maybe others too. It use to thought that meat was the best source of protein, after all.

Do we have claws for catching other animals? Do we have teeth for ripping and biting raw flesh? Would you even think about eating a raw dead animal? Could your stomach handle that?

The short answer is, yes, yes, yes and yes.[/quote]

Well it would be interesting to see a human hunting down an animal with only what they have been endowed with and then dig in and start eating.

We are not designed as herbivores and could not live on grass and such.

There are many more things in the plant kingdom than grass to eat.  

As to eating raw meat, there are many people all over the globe who do just that.

From a pure biological standpoint, humans are meant to eat fruits, nuts, grains, veggies -- and meat.

There are people all over the globe that never eat meat and they are perfectly healthy.

Adrian Cooper writes that killing animals even for eating them are destroying a bit of ourself and everything else, and it will hit us back by the law of karma.

I think eating meat is unhealthy & what eating meat is doing to
the planet is pretty bad, so in a way that statement is true.

Is that not karma? That is how I see karma, cause and effect. I don't see it as some deity with a clipboard.

I don't see the article actually saying she had an OBE, but rather that she felt detached from what she was doing.