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m0d0, how about Robert Bruce's suggestion of using the white noise from a TV or radio?

m0d0 - please try not to be too concerned about your heart.  Believe me, there can't be many people as paranoid about their hearts in general than me, so if I can get over it, anyone can!  The thing that really got it for me was something I read in Robert Monroe's book Far Journeys.  He said that in 25 years of experimentation, nobody was ever hurt by the process.

The next time I attempted to project after reading that, my racing heart didn't bother me in the slightest.

hypnotist - what's your problem?  If it works, it works!  Instead of coming here to boast about what you claim to be able to do, try posting something constructive instead.  It'll make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside! []

Being able to project without the aid of Hemi-Sync must be preferable (although, in all fairness, TMI say that H-S is like training wheels and won't be needed forever).  However, I believe that the real strength of H-S with regards to projection is that the tapes seem to be able to make phasing into different Focuses a lot easier.  Read Far Journeys by Monroe. []

Thanks for your input, Euphoric Sunrise (cool handle, by the way).  The thing is, Monroe made it pretty clear that he could do the stretch-travel thing even while staying in the RTZ (he was referring to it as Locale I at the time).  So to be honest, I don't think phasing is the answer.

*shrugs*

Hehehe, thanks Nay.  I'll try to be more positive. []

In fact, I'm hopefully going to have the opportunity to make another attempt before bedtime in a few hours.  My exercises are going pretty well thanks Dragen, mate.  In fact, that's not what I have to worry about.  I can get to the exit stage pretty much every time I try it, it comes quite easily to me.  The one and only remaining problem is to let go at the crucial stage.  I'm just nervous about what it'll be like when I exit, that's all.  But even in the worst case scenario, if I can't re-enter my body, all that'll happen is I'll have to hang around until I run out of energy, right?  So I suppose I shouldn't be that nervous.

As for my question.  Well yeah, of course I realise that his experiences were pioneering and open to interpretation, which is why I asked specifically about this one thing.  See, in Journeys Out of the Body, he seemed pretty damn clear about this stretching business.  Most of the rest can be interpreted different ways, but there's just something about the way he described the stretching-travelling process.  It seems too 'set in stone', as it were, or clearly-defined, to be open to much interpretation.

When I'm finally out-and-about, I'm going to give this a try.  I'm pretty sure from reading other posts that you can at least morph your astral body, so there's gotta be something to this stretching business.

And while we're on the subject...Far Journeys...what's with all that slipping out of the astral body too, huh?! [|)]

I'm sure I read somewhere that if any part of your astral body becomes 'pinned' to the physical, it's because you haven't stimulated the relevant chakra enough.  Must be worth a try.

Robert Monroe also believed that this is a symptom of some kind of emotional worry, and that you should try to figure out what it is and address it.  Sadly, in typical Monroe fashion, he didn't go into enough detail. [|)]

I dunno mate, despite RB's advice I always lie down on my back, with my head parallel with the floor.  Seems to work for me...

But yeah, be as relaxed as possible.  I dunno if I'm naturally good at this type of thing or not, but I seem to have no trouble at all achieving meditative states and ignoring rogue thoughts and things.  I have a topic around here somewhere (in the energy body devlopment forum) called 'Quick meditation question', and in it I outline my meditation technique.  It helps me a lot, so maybe it would help you too.

As for ROPE, I cannot stress enough how much better I became at the technique when I imagined myself as being really heavy, so I really had to try hard to 'climb' it.  You're right, it is difficult to avoid picturing it.  The best advice I can give you here is to try and focus your visual awareness on the blackness of your eyelids.  Just never stop climbing that rope, not even for a second!

In case you don't notice, Dragen, I have replied to your post in my 'What not to do' thread. []

Oh, one more thing Dragen.  You said you only got to that point once, and haven't achieved it since.  That also happened to me.  My second and third attempts didn't even result in heavy vibrations, just a little bit.  After thinking about it, I realised that I simply hadn't relaxed my body enough.  As RB says in his treatise, the inital relaxation stage is VERY important.  He's right.  Whenever I make an attempt since then, I always make damn sure my body is relaxed as can be before I even start on my chakra work.  All my attempts have been really close ever since. []

Hehe, thank you Nay!  Very kind of you to say so.  I find that ROPE works wonders, it's a magical technique!  If you ever feel inclined to try it again, maybe employ the slight variations I use?

Anyway, thanks again for the encouragment.  I'm sure you know how much it means to me right now! []

[:I]

Thanks for your kind words, Dragen!  I suppose I should be seeing it in a more optimistic light, as you suggest.

As for your questions, I'll reply here rather than split my reply between this thread and yours.

The ROPE technique is astoundingly good, but I agree that it's difficult sometimes.  Let me tell you something, Dragen - I was having exactly the same problem as you at first!  Namely, I was visualising the rope instead of feeling it.  To get around that, I used two methods.  Firstly, I think RB has said somewhere that it's easier to imagine you're climbing in the dark.  That helped.  Also, my own method, was to imagine that climbing the rope is difficult.  Imagine you're really heavy and that you have to really struggle for every inch.  I think that the reason it works is that it focuses your concentration a lot more.  I know it works because I practically projected yesterday morning, as I said.  It's just that that damned 'fear of the unknown' beat me.  The fear of the heart chakra is nothing compared to it.

Speaking of which, yeah, your heart probably is beating rapidly.  RB says it's just the chakra, but after an attempt I will feel my pulse and discover it really is my heart beating.  However, all I can say is that it isn't anything to worry about.  It's probably just caused by the adrenaline.  I find that the closer I get to projection, the faster my heart beats.  But trust me on this, dude - it really isn't anything to worry about.  Something that helped me here was something I read in Robert Monroe's book Far Journeys.  He said that in some 25 years of experimentation, absolutely no harm had ever come to the experimenters, physiological or otherwise.  Reading that made me feel a lot better, and the next time I attempted to project I realised that I had defeated my fear of the heart chakra.

Regarding the chakra stimulation.  In order, this is what I do (I stick closely to RB's methods).  First, I use my mental hands to pull energy up through my legs.  I try not to visualise my hands (although I find that chakra stimulation isn't ruined by visualisation), I just imagine what it would feel like.  I don't so much grab the energy and yank it up as RB suggests...instead I kind of 'waft' it up.  Give it encouragement.  Then, I open my base chakra exactly as RB suggests.  I have no idea what a chakra is supposed to look like, so I just use a general opening action with one of my mental hands.  After that, I continue to send energy into the chakra, and beyond it.  Then I simply open successive chakras in the same method.  For the crown chakra, I imagine pulling it open from beneath, i.e. from inside my head.  I then spend a few minutes dragging the energy through my body (always upwards), through each chakra in turn.  I concentrate on chakras that I think need it, I like to keep it all balanced.

I think that's everything you asked about.  Please feel free to ask any more questions if you like.  Hopefully, soon, I'll be projecting so I should be of a lot more help to you.  And don't ever give up!  No matter how depressed I get about my failures, I always try again with as much passion as the last time.  Good luck! []

No way, dude.  When I finally achieve it, I'm gonna take one quick look around the room then dive right back in.  For the time being, that will be plenty. []

So basically what you're saying is should you believe what a priest tells you about OBEs, or Robert Bruce?

Bit of a no-brainer...

Or you could just listen to Porcupine Tree's Stars Die. []

Hi Dragen.  Have you read Robert Bruce's treatise, freely available on the website?  Read in particular his ROPE technique, it has given me incredible results!  I haven't quite managed to project yet, but following his advice I have come ridiculously close!  In fact, it's only my own fault that I haven't succeeded so far, because I let first the fear of the heart chakra and then the fear of the unknown overwhelm me.

I must stress, though, that if you want to take it further, try his ROPE technique.  It's astounding how successful it is!  I also cannot stress  enough how important it is to do the relaxation exercises first.  And never attempt projection when you're mentally tired!  You won't get anywhere and you'll waste your energy.

Have you read Robert Bruce's treatise?  I have been having slow but incredible results with his ROPE method.

Incredibly overrated in my opinion, although I did like the ending, very much.

I never thought I'd see the day, but the Hollywood remake was far superior.  Still not scary, though.

Don't get too depressed about it just yet!  Maybe it's not just EM fields we can 'hear', maybe we can hear gravitational fields too?  This would explain why we always hear them even if out in the countryside.

Or maybe you can actually hear etheric energy?  It wouldn't surprise me.  Next time I open my chakras, I'll try to remember to listen to see if the sounds change.

I can do all that which you just described too, nthjbam.  I wonder if it's the same for everyone?  Maybe it's something to do with natural variations in ear sensitivity or something.

Well, when meditating I always used to be sitting up so although my body relaxed, I was always aware of it.  However, now I've taken to doing it whilst lying down it's a whole new ball game.  I'm only dimly aware of it, and after a while my lower body seems to lose feeling.  It gets a kind of tingling though, as if the circulation has been cut off.

Have you tried my technique, Nagual?  Maybe you'll be surprised at what you can achieve.  If you have difficulty at first, try resting a hand on your chest to feel the beating.  Breathe after 5 beats, then after 6, then after 7 and so on.

Ah, it's great to have some validation!  Although I must stress that I'm pretty sure that yesterday morning I actually breathed even slower than that.  I'll be off to bed in a few hours, I'll repeat the process and see what happens.

Heh, I had a look and there wasn't much to go on, man!  Write the next installment, post-haste!

I'm looking forward to hearing about your experimentation with my technique.  I'd love to know if others achieve the same things that I do, particularly the incredibly low breathing rate.  Ya know, the strange thing is that in addition to the fact that I suffered no ill effects, I also didn't even feel like I needed to breathe; the only reason I did take another breath is because I knew I had to.

I'd be happy to, Kutabare, although there are a couple of things I'd like to point out first.

I have, perhaps unfortunately, been trained as a scientist, and as such I didn't take any of the topics covered here on AP seriously (including, bafflingly, meditation) until recently.  Consequently I don't know much about any of it yet.

The reason I tell you this is to explain that while meditation comes incredibly easily to me, I'm not sure if it would come as easily to anybody else.  I have never been successful in any kind of 'mind techniques' in the past, although that is probably attributable to my lifelong skepticism.  Therefore I cannot guarantee that meditation will come as easily to you, for example, as it does to me (although I sincerely hope it does []).

As for my technique, it is a variation on a technique I learned from a website.  The technique as orginally taught required sitting in a lotus position or an equivalent, but as I discovered this week, it is not required.  Not for me, anyway.

My technique is deceptively simple.  First I close my eyes and try to clear my mind.  I then begin to take deep breaths, usually in through the nose and out through the mouth, although sometimes I will change that and there doesn't appear to be any difference.  Now, as has been stated elsewhere on this board, actually clearing the mind of all imagery is next to impossible, and I agree with that.  You're still going to get images and thoughts running through your head, but that's absolutely fine.  The trick is to not 'get involved' with them.  Watch them as if you were watching a TV show but not paying much attention to it.  Let the thoughts play themselves out and take as little part in them as you possibly can.

It doesn't take much of this for me to achieve the meditative state.  Maybe other meditators would disagree with my method or even go so far as to state that I'm not even meditating.  I don't care, as I know I am, otherwise I wouldn't feel so incredibly relaxed.  And besides, how else could I breathe so infrequently without ill effect?  Also, my resting heart rate is usually quite high, around the mid-seventies, because I'm not very fit.  Without meditating, I have never been able to lower my heart rate so much in my life.

I hope this helps you, and if you get similar success, please tell me about your experiences in this thread!

Robert Monroe reported some kind of 'psychic protector' that a certain key governmental figure seemed to employ, so if it were me I'd be careful.

Cool, thanks for the info James.  I will be using a crystal as I have already ordered one.  I hope whoever I'm talking to likes it better than the last pendant I have been using!